Harry Potter and the Skittering Spouse

[sunsunsunsunsun]

Couple of things here.

Canon Taylor would appear to have the common 'do not murder' social drive, until she is 'broken' by her society breaking. Under the whole 'parahumans are reservist soldiers without them being told this', so they're subject to martial law. 'Broken society'? When you have soldiers, who're society's defence against external threats (and their job requires them to learn to use lethal force) doing police work (or politics), you're on the broken, bleeding, edge of civilization.

Taylor's bugs are Taylor. QA may be suppressing common human disgust with bugs (and bugs eating their usual diet). But, there's good reasons cannibalism is one of the acts that shove people from the 'us' to 'them' group (look-up ogre), maybe unless severely ritualised. I'm pretty sure most magicals would prefer Taylor to remain in the group 'us'...

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Yes, but this is Taylor from the end of Warlord Skitter, right before the Alexandria confrontation. Given how much nothing happens in the timeskip, if there's any version of Taylor that's past "societal mores" its this one.

 

[SemiSaneAuthor]

Well if we go by canon then including those without specific citation then the wizarding world only has about 316 spells total using the full wiki list, of which, 15 which are medical in nature. Of those 15, 3 of them cure a specific minor ailment.

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I see you ignored the rest of my post about the fanon.

Compulsion Charms were invented by fanon for the purporse of bashing. And if you go with all the fanon Harry Potter fanfiction has come up with you end up with a completely different mechanical universe.

If Compulsion Charms existed, then do you think nobody would have used them and been pointed out to have used them in the books? If Compulsion Charms were so useful then why would people use the Imperius Curse? You know, instead of these spells which work better and yet are somehow legal? Infatuation Charms would lead to Love Potions being obsolete and not existing in the books.

In Book 6 for example, if Compulsion and Infatuation Charms existed ... then why wouldn't they been thrown around like confetti by the girls who wanted to be Harry's Girlfriend? And why would Hermione use the Confundus Charm on Cormac McLaggen in sixth year when the Quidditch Tryouts were happening? If there was something better than a Confundus Charm which would be less suspicious then why wouldn't it be used?

And during Book 7, there are countless places on both sides where Compulsion Charms instead of the Imperius Curse would habe been useful.

There is a difference between writing Harry Potter Fanfiction and Harry Potter Fanon Fanfiction, the Plotholes Fanon brings in make the setting even worse. If the fanon was true, then why would any of the plot in the books ever happen? Can you, if we admit just existence of The Compulsion Charm, how different the First Wizarding War would have been?

Would the Ministry have not fallen if Voldemort and his Death Eaters had Compulsion Charms in the first war too?

Please, don't start following the fanon which makes the plot of the books even more nonsensical. The Fanon introduces more plotholes than it fixes because it's nonsense.

To use the example of the fanon charm of the Notice-Me-Not Charm (Which if I remember correctly was invented to hide Snape being pregnant in a fic which is already a do-not-use reason to start with) why would you need an Invisibility Cloak if you can basically go Imp on the setting? It's not like The Magical World has CCTV Cameras.

The fanon at this point is complete nonsense. Which at least the OP is doing the research into Half Blood Prince even if it's causing some issues with how they're having to deal with Rowling's nonsense.

 

[Barghest Blue]

It still baffles me how Harry's insane troll logic ends up being spot on more often than not.

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Truly, he is the perfect match for Taylor, who often arrives at a seemingly nonsensical answer through an apparently insane troll logic process, but the answer almost invariably turns out to be correct to some degree

Together, they can conspiracy theory their way to absolute truths of the universe and society

 

[Ace Dreamer]

Compulsion Charms

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These are a good example of spells which haven't been thought out. If you want to add new spells to a setting, you'd be strongly advised to consider the social consequences of such spells. I think you make a good point, here.

You want 'Compulsion Charms'? Make them less useful, but still useful in edge cases or if used really carefully. One example would be to remove any 'fire and forget' element - you need to have at least some element of concentration throughout (and maybe line-of-sight?) to maintain the compulsion. Also, if you don't want use of the spell to be spotted, make the compulsion vaguely credible to the target. Possibly back it up with some dialogue.

Another example? Binary component magic. Also, temporary curses, lasting at most hours. A spell that only works if the right potion has been ingested at least 15mins ago, and no more than a few hours ago (depending on digestion? activity?). And, the potion's negated by certain food/drink types. You've then got a process, which gives some story, to make things more interesting. Polyjuice is quite a good canon example of a complex process.

Making stuff 'easier than canon' - this is a common problem with 'quick' fanfics. If the canon stuff is complex and fiddly to use, most anything you invent should be at least as tricky. Ask yourself, "How could this be made more difficult?".

You can imagine (successful) magical researchers developing a large vocab of swears in their work...

Of course, having bugs to act as a delivery system, that might provide... certain advantages...

 

[Martin Bajar]

There is a solution, put the bugs in place. Then walk away so those particular bugs are no longer in her range

 

[sunsunsunsunsun]

To use the example of the fanon charm of the Notice-Me-Not Charm (Which if I remember correctly was invented to hide Snape being pregnant in a fic which is already a do-not-use reason to start with) why would you need an Invisibility Cloak if you can basically go Imp on the setting? It's not like The Magical World has CCTV Cameras.

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S not like Disillusionment doesn't already exist my guy. why on earth would you assume that the magical world, as isolated and stratified as it is, DOESN'T have multiple different ways of doing the same thing. There are at least 4 different broomstick brands, and magical carpets (which are illegal), Aguamenti and Aqua Eructo both do exactly the same thing, make a jet of water, there is a spell from hogwarts mystery that is specifically for driving away spiders, There's a charm for shooting an explosive blast at things, a charm specifically for blowing open boxes/trunks, a charm that blasts holes in things, a charm to gouge out chunks of dirt or stone, a spell that caused whatever it hit to explode (distinct from the spell that shoots bombs at things) an explosive curse that uses blasts of blue light but doesn't have the other effects of an explosion, just tossing people around, a curse that disintegrates it's target (distinct from the one that makes it explode)

all of those are canon. How are compulsion charms different than the imperius, or a notice-me-not distinct from muggle repelling charms or raw invisibility? I don't know, but that certainly shouldn't be hard for a good writer to distinguish.

 

[parnary]

If Compulsion Charms existed, then do you think nobody would have used them and been pointed out to have used them in the books? If Compulsion Charms were so useful then why would people use the Imperius Curse? You know, instead of these spells which work better and yet are somehow legal? Infatuation Charms would lead to Love Potions being obsolete and not existing in the books.

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Because love potions can be subtle, just roofie someone and you're done rather than point your wand at them and say something out loud?

As for why not use the imperius curse, good question! Tragically, if you're asking that question you've already poked a massive plothole in canon, because by all rights Voldemort doesn't NEED an army, or followers at all. He needs an invisibility cloak or a disillusionment spell, and a strong desire for the imperius to work. At which point he invisibly waltzes into the ministry, silently imperius' everyone who walks in, and takes over the entire wizarding world in about a day and a half.

First order of business to everyone he imperiuses, imperius someone else when either they're alone or when you only have similarly controlled people around you. Make sure not to let them escape. There, it's now a self-replicating mind control virus that the wizarding world, outside of a the vaults in Gringotts, have 0 defense against or even ability to detect.

It's not crazy fanon to assume there's something like the Imperius people don't use frequently when people don't use the Imperius instead of every single other spell in combat.

 

[RealOtto]

it's now a self-replicating mind control virus that the wizarding world

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A Plothole that also fills in every plothole in Harry Potter in regards to the Adults and..well their idiocies.

Who knows, Fudge is actually a competent hardworking Muggleborn that was imperiused to becoming the one in the books?
Umbridge is actually a supporter of Werewolves that was imperiused to be the one she is in the books?

 

[sunsunsunsunsun]

First order of business to everyone he imperiuses, imperius someone else when either they're alone or when you only have similarly controlled people around you. Make sure not to let them escape. There, it's now a self-replicating mind control virus that the wizarding world, outside of a the vaults in Gringotts, have 0 defense against or even ability to detect

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I would say that it's probably pretty difficult (if not straight up impossible) to chain imperius, if it takes a specific mental state and force of will to cast, that's probably impacted by having your own will supressed.

 

[parnary]

I would say that it's probably pretty difficult (if not straight up impossible) to chain imperius, if it takes a specific mental state and force of will to cast, that's probably impacted by having your own will supressed.

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The only requirement we know of is wanting the spell to work, which is what applies to all unforgiveables, and that's exactly what being under the control of the Imperius does. You want to do what your controller tells you to, so it's probably actually more effective when chaining it.

Even if not, plan "take over the entire ministry in 3 days" works great and comes with a free suicidally-loyal army.

 

[sunsunsunsunsun]

The only requirement we know of is wanting the spell to work, which is what applies to all unforgiveables, and that's exactly what being under the control of the Imperius does. You want to do what your controller tells you to, so it's probably actually more effective when chaining it.

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That's not really accurate. I don't have the books on hand (why on earth) so I'm quoting from the Wiki, but

Since the Unforgivable Curses were very powerful, their use required both great willpower and great skill in order to bring about the effects. One must also had to possess a deep desire to use the curses for malevolent purposes and take great pleasure in their victims' sufferings.[1][16][25] For example, Harry Potter was unable to effectively cast the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix Lestrange in 1996; despite being furious with her for her murder of his godfather, he lacked the desire to cause pain for its own sake, and Harry's "righteous anger" only inflicted a brief moment of pain on her.[16]

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It takes more than just wanting them to work, it takes emotional force. and the Imperius curse specifically

The Imperius Curse placed the victim in a calm, trance-like (or dreamlike) state, an experience described as a "wonderful release" from any sense of responsibility or anxiety, making the victim under its power profoundly susceptible to the influence of the caster, whose hold on their free will was deeply rooted in part by the victim's unwillingness to impart with the comfortable sensation and in part by their newfound lack of (and thus indifference to) the moral perspective of the caster's desires, making the victim inclined to carry out whatever task thrust upon them for no other reason than that they failed to see why they should not do so, leaving him or her largely under the complete control of the caster.

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So, the imperius curse doesn't make you want what the caster wants. It makes you calm and passive, and willing to do whatever the caster mentally compells you to do. Not "Master says do X" but "Do x! sure, why not."

You are correct that "just imperius everyone in the government is neve really explained away, but it's very likely he'd at least need to do it directly, and the Imperius can be resisted by those of extreme will. And the Auror office is right there in the main goverment building.

 

[Thamerlin]

you're trying to dismiss a Watsonian criticsm on Doylistic grounds.

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No, it's more like I'm tired of the same reinterpretation of the Watsonian reality that only existed because of bad Doylist reasons.

I actually agree with you: Dumbledore is badly, woefully written. In fact, I generally agree with all the arguments that explain how, from a Watsonian perspective, everyone in HP is awful (hence the bit you quoted below). I'm just tired of everyone behaving as though this is news, or that the fridge logic is the part that makes the franchise so popular.

So my… suggestion for fanfic writers is to stop retreading old ground, and instead try to reconstruct the world from the badly executed intent that made the books popular in the first place.

and saying "every character can be interpreted as a narcissistic megalomaniac" says a lot more about the validity of these alternative readings than I think you intended

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Given what I said above (particularly concerning how I generally agree with how awful HP characters as written are), no, I'm pretty sure I said exactly what I meant.

The thing is, the "garbage characters doing garbage things" that is the HP world if you stop to think about it for a half second… isn't why I was originally interested in the series. And making your fanfic a gritty deconstruction of how it's actually awful, really, is a fast way to get me to lose interest, partially because I've seen it done before, but mostly because, if I was initially drawn in to the series because of it's whimsy and delight, why would I find it appealing to read a fic in that setting that had neither?

What would interest me? Reconstruction, not deconstruction.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

So, odds on the MoM having a 'Detect Imperius' trick of some sort? Sounds like the sort of spell that'd be quite popular... Canon tells us 'Detect Used To Be Imperius'd' isn't a standard tool (otherwise, poor Lucius...), but...

The utility of detection (and analysis) effects oft seems overlooked in fantasy settings... 'Detect Skitter'd Bugs' might have... a certain popularity in some circles.

 

[parnary]

You are correct that "just imperius everyone in the government is neve[r] really explained away, but it's very likely he'd at least need to do it directly, and the Imperius can be resisted by those of extreme will. And the Auror office is right there in the main goverment building.

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Yeah, but Pius Thickness was not just an auror but head of the DMLE during sixth year and he went down under the Imperius without issue.

If Voldemort is throwing them, I'm not sure who outside Harry (who is pathologically incapable of not feeling anxious) and, like, IDK Dumbledore could shrug it off.

 

[FullNothingness]

That's not really accurate. I don't have the books on hand (why on earth) so I'm quoting from the Wiki, but

It takes more than just wanting them to work, it takes emotional force. and the Imperius curse specifically


So, the imperius curse doesn't make you want what the caster wants. It makes you calm and passive, and willing to do whatever the caster mentally compells you to do. Not "Master says do X" but "Do x! sure, why not."

You are correct that "just imperius everyone in the government is neve really explained away, but it's very likely he'd at least need to do it directly, and the Imperius can be resisted by those of extreme will. And the Auror office is right there in the main goverment building.

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IMO a point could also be made for there probably being a effective limit on how many targets someone can hold under the imperius at the same time. After all the spell isn't exactly fire and forget since it requires a continuous mental link. Maintaining hundreds of those at the same time is probably hard. It could also weaken the hold one has on any given target if you have to split your attention making resistance far more likely. Fanon of course but I think it makes sense.

 

[sunsunsunsunsun]

The thing is, the "garbage characters doing garbage things" that is the HP world if you stop to think about it for a half second… isn't why I was originally interested in the series. And making your fanfic a gritty deconstruction of how it's actually awful, really, is a fast way to get me to lose interest, partially because I've seen it done before, but mostly because, if I was initially drawn in to the series because of it's whimsy and delight, why would I find it appealing to read a fic in that setting that had neither?

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That may be true. But you are clearly not in the majority my guy. I'm no huge fan of the usual fanon shlock HP fic tropes, but I won't deny that they have a large audience. You may not find it appealing, but that's personal preference, not constructive criticism.

I also don't backtrack to "well, I find it uninteresting" from "your readings are wrong because you literally cannot derive any knowledge of his character from his actions"

As someone else said, Dumbledore is a plot device, not a character. So of course he behaves inconsistently. You literally cannot derive any knowledge of his character from his actions, because his actions aren't self-defined. They're defined by narrativium.

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Whether or not you find it uninteresting, lots of people do, whether or not you think the character is inconsistent because of doylistic justification, there is still a watsonian character there to analyze. You are not the arbiter of Harry Potter Fanon. This isn't your story. It's Fencer's story, and what characterizations they want to portray for the canon cast of character is entirely up to them. You are welcome (as this is a public forum) to provide your own input, but don't pretend that everyone should have the exact same opinions on the state of HP fanon as you, and that telling fanfic authors not to "retread old ground" doesn't come off as enormously gatekeeping.

 

[Thamerlin]

I also don't backtrack to "well, I find it uninteresting" from "your readings are wrong because you literally cannot derive any knowledge of his character from his actions"

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Thank you for quoting my post. Genuinely. I now see where I erred in my original statement, and what caused offense. You are right. I am not the arbiter of "good" HP fic. I still hope this won't be a "Dumbledore is evil/stupid" fic, but I'll leave it at that.

Edit: I'm also going leave my post as-is in the hope that someone can learn from my mistakes.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

Is it just me? I see 'HP fic', and my mind tends to transform that into H.P. Lovecraft fiction... (I'm told some people see 'HP Sauce'...)

Personally, I don't think mixing the Potter-verse and the Cthulhu Mythos is... likely to produce pleasant results...
(I think I've read such crosses, but, don't recall much details. That probably helps me sleep better. )

 

[M. H. Fuzzball]

Personally, I don't think mixing the Potter-verse and the Cthulhu Mythos is... likely to produce pleasant results...
(I think I've read such crosses, but, don't recall much details. That probably helps me sleep better. )

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I have a fic where Mr. Lovecraft was related to the Lovegoods. Luna was breeding Mi-go and successfully summoned a Shoggoth.

 

[Vysirez]

The vow was to help him accomplish his mission and protect him from harm.

"Narcissa Malfoy: "Will you, Severus, watch over my son, Draco, as he attempts to fulfil the Dark Lord's wishes?"

Severus Snape: "I will."

Narcissa Malfoy: "And will you, to the best of your ability, protect him from harm?"

Severus Snape: "I will."

If he makes that vow here, he's a dead man.

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But none of those words actually refer to Draco's work. Watch over him and protect him from harm. None of that specifies that the Dark Lord's wishes have to succeed. He just has to protect Draco as he tries to do what the Dark Lord said. Nothing indicating how hard Draco has to try, or if he has to succeed. Not trying to be too argumentative, I don't actually remember the exact wording, but if it's what you listed above, there is lots of wiggle room.

 

[Elerathe]

Spoiler

I mean with Taylor on hand that is absolutely a thing that will happen because raging incompetence isn't something she will allow to continue. So I'm going to have to start making things up. On the other hand I ended up with a half dozen "quick make a note moments" already. Because the book is just… so out there.

Completely forgot that for some reason all of a sudden Rowling had half the girls in the castle giggling after Harry (what the fuck why?! No I get the shallow attraction bit but some of their friends and families are being murdered what the fuck are these priorities?!) which means they'll all hate Taylor.

Or that Ron and Hermione are insane this whole year over the dumbest shit and how that could influence Taylor's relationship with those two.

The Malfoy conspiracy isn't going to make it out of the cradle just nope no nah uh Taylor can absolutely figure this shit out in no time at all and then I just need to decide how she will react. Which will prompt reactions from others and so on and so on and so on. This craps pretty useless for major plot points but it's giving me ideas for background stuff. Like I completely forgot that Lupin just fucks off to fail at restraining the werwolf packs this book. Which is a whole reason for Tonks to be miserable and for Taylor to call all of them idiots because no shit that won't work why are you waisting time trying?

*head desk* It's a good practice in general and it is giving me things to work with it's just that it is also stupid and frustrating.

Edit: also! I totally didn't realize when I started but voldy left his followers to rot in jail for awhile. Except that doesn't make any sense because the Dementors were already on his side at the start of the book! Rowling, what the fuck? Why would he steal the prison guards but leave his followers, just to come and break them out later? What were you smoking?!

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Good luck, I stopped reading the books at the order of the phoenix. Harry turned into too much of a brat and the so called "order" was just too pants-on-head retarded of a group for me to enjoy it.
Not even going to get into the logical inconsistencies and plot holes.

Seriously, I totally understood when getting into fanfiction that so many people push for dark Dumbledore...noone can be that stupid, incompetent and powerless while holding so many positions. Gahh even now the stupidity burns!

 

[Klendatu]

The vow was to help him accomplish his mission and protect him from harm.

"Narcissa Malfoy: "Will you, Severus, watch over my son, Draco, as he attempts to fulfil the Dark Lord's wishes?"

Severus Snape: "I will."

Narcissa Malfoy: "And will you, to the best of your ability, protect him from harm?"

Severus Snape: "I will."

If he makes that vow here, he's a dead man.

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watching over him and protecting him as he Attempts to complete his mission all snape has to do is keep Draco from getting Skittered to fuffil his vow there is nothing about helping Draco succeed just survive the attempt

 

[Ravenwood240]

But none of those words actually refer to Draco's work. Watch over him and protect him from harm. None of that specifies that the Dark Lord's wishes have to succeed. He just has to protect Draco as he tries to do what the Dark Lord said. Nothing indicating how hard Draco has to try, or if he has to succeed. Not trying to be too argumentative, I don't actually remember the exact wording, but if it's what you listed above, there is lots of wiggle room.

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watching over him and protecting him as he Attempts to complete his mission all snape has to do is keep Draco from getting Skittered to fuffil his vow there is nothing about helping Draco succeed just survive the attempt

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Except that Voldemort gave him this task, 'kill Dumbledore' and the threat of killing Draco if he fails to do so.

So protecting Draco from harm means getting that task accomplished or Draco dies. Nothing in the vow says he only has to protect Draco from the good guys.

 

[Fencer]

"Will you, Severus, watch over my son, Draco, as he attempts to fulfill the Dark Lord's wishes?"

"I will," said Snape. A thin tongue of brilliant flame issued from the wand and wound its way around their hands like a red-hot wire.

"And will you, to the best of your ability, protect him from harm?"

"I will," said Snape. A second tongue of flame shot from the wand and interlinked with the first, making a fine, glowing chain.

"And, should it prove necessary . . . if it seems Draco will fail . . ." whispered Narcissa (Snape's hand twitched within hers, but he did not draw away), "will you carry out the deed that the Dark Lord has ordered Draco to perform?"

Quoted direct from the book. Snape is bound by the vow to do what he can for Draco and kill Dumbles should it seem Draco is not up to the task.

The only real questions are how the vow and snape will react to various degrees of force directed at Draco and how he and Dumbledore will react to having their truly idiotic plot derailed.

 

[Fireball900]

Because love potions can be subtle, just roofie someone and you're done rather than point your wand at them and say something out loud?

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I will note that we only see two people explictly get love potioned in canon - Ron and Tom Riddle Senior.
Of those two, we only know about Ron's behavior while on the potion.
Considering how obviously monofocused he was, i don't think that could be called "subtle."
There's also the implied evidence leaning this way of Fred &George selling love potions. If love potions are loud and obvious that fits their style, they aren't really a subtle pair.