TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Oh, so we're doing with AU legilimancy that doesn't require eye contact?
Harry Potter and the Scabbard of Excalibur [AU]
[X] Master Basic Occlumency
[x] Go Outside
[x] Go Outside
Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
lol
Canon Legilimency doesn't require eye contact; eye contact is merely helpful in the process.
See: Every time Voldemort uses it, Snape and Harry's training sessions, Queenie Goldstein, etc.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Ah, you are correct. I missed that subtlety. Thanks.
- Location
- US
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
Even if it's "safe" debt, Mastering Basic Occlumency doesn't seem worth it to me. Gnosis gain is hard as it is, you know?
Besides, Dumbledore still has more than enough skill to shatter right past whatever defenses we'd have whether we're a novice or slightly less of one.
All we need is enough to be able to know if he's trying it, I think.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
Even if it's "safe" debt, Mastering Basic Occlumency doesn't seem worth it to me. Gnosis gain is hard as it is, you know?
Besides, Dumbledore still has more than enough skill to shatter right past whatever defenses we'd have whether we're a novice or slightly less of one.
All we need is enough to be able to know if he's trying it, I think.
[x] Attempt to Learn Basic Occlumency - At the moment, you have no applicable specialties. 7% chance of learning Basic Occlumency at the level of a complete novice, 90% chance of failure and not learning anything, 3% chance of grasping a few of the basic techniques; ones which do not make you an Occlumens, but give you some resistance.
[x] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
Edit: convinced that we are merely being paranoid
[x] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
Edit: convinced that we are merely being paranoid
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TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
It's too much Gnosis to spend for the relative amount of gain, so I'm in favor of the simple solution here. Stay inside. It'll be fine.
[X] Attempt to Learn Basic Occlumency - At the moment, you have no applicable specialties. 7% chance of learning Basic Occlumency at the level of a complete novice, 90% chance of failure and not learning anything, 3% chance of grasping a few of the basic techniques; ones which do not make you an Occlumens, but give you some resistance.
[X] Refuse to Leave - Avoid any consequences that might stem from a conversation with Albus Dumbledore, but risk a hit to your reputation and relationship with him.
[X] Attempt to Learn Basic Occlumency - At the moment, you have no applicable specialties. 7% chance of learning Basic Occlumency at the level of a complete novice, 90% chance of failure and not learning anything, 3% chance of grasping a few of the basic techniques; ones which do not make you an Occlumens, but give you some resistance.
[X] Refuse to Leave - Avoid any consequences that might stem from a conversation with Albus Dumbledore, but risk a hit to your reputation and relationship with him.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Harry Knows Basic Occlumency and is Using it+Dumbledore Uses Legilimency+Dumbledore can detect the existence of Occlumency without breaching defenses: Suspicion, ???
Harry Knows Basic Occlumency and is using it+Dumbledore uses Legilimency+Dumbledore can't detect the Occlumency shielded area: Things go fine
Harry Knows Basic Occlumency and is using it+Dumbledore doesn't use Legilimency: Things go fine
Harry Doesn't Know Basic Occlumency+Dumbledore uses Legilimency: Dumbledore does something to Geist?
Harry Doesn't Know Basic Occlumency+Dumbledore doesn't use Legilimency: Things go fine
Are there any variables I'm missing for our decision vs dumbledore's here?
Harry Knows Basic Occlumency and is using it+Dumbledore uses Legilimency+Dumbledore can't detect the Occlumency shielded area: Things go fine
Harry Knows Basic Occlumency and is using it+Dumbledore doesn't use Legilimency: Things go fine
Harry Doesn't Know Basic Occlumency+Dumbledore uses Legilimency: Dumbledore does something to Geist?
Harry Doesn't Know Basic Occlumency+Dumbledore doesn't use Legilimency: Things go fine
Are there any variables I'm missing for our decision vs dumbledore's here?
- Location
- the point is of no return and you have reached it!
If you think there's a heavy chance of Dumbledore doing something to Geist in permutation 4, then there should be a sizable change of Dumbledore doing something to Geist in this permutation as well beyond "suspicion."
I don't think it's genuinely likely that Dumbledore does anything significant to Geist here-and-now in p1 or p4. I think it's more likely that Geist is being paranoid, or that he's attempting to avoid Dumbledore for reasons other than this purported fear for removal. Were this a serious concern of Geist's that he was about to be removed, then he would have brought it up in the past. "All that I'm worried about is that he could've done this earlier, back during the incident at Privet Drive, but didn't" is a huge tell imo, and it expresses that Geist's concerns are less related to legilimency then he's letting on. If Geist is of the belief that Dumbledore performing any legilimency onto Harry is a legitimate existential threat, he would have taken action in the past. Geist's suggestion that "something changed since Privet Drive" is surely true but it's attached to an argument that's distracting from what he's trying to get Harry to actually do.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
- Location
- a place
These are roughly my thoughts. Theirs no possible way for us to actually stand up to a determined mental assault by dumbledore, so the best thing we can do is stand up to his basic scans with the hope he won't use the nuclear option, and then mitigate Dumbledore's reasons to use the nuclear option by not tanking our rep with him and making him more suspicous. Eventually we're going to have to come out of his bathroom and meet with him anyway, we can't actually avoid him forever, or even long enough to plausibly get the level of occlumency neccesary to render Harry's mind invulnerable to his assaults.
Plus, the mastering option is implied to be a suboptimal use of the backhalf of the 10 gnosis because of the situation and timespan we're in limiting our learning speed.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Attempt to Learn Basic Occlumency - At the moment, you have no applicable specialties. 7% chance of learning Basic Occlumency at the level of a complete novice, 90% chance of failure and not learning anything, 3% chance of grasping a few of the basic techniques; ones which do not make you an Occlumens, but give you some resistance.
[x] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
... Either cripple ourselves with Gnosis debt (or wipe our stores of it off), or see what Dumbledore has in store for us.
I'd want to see, for better or for worse.
[x] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
... Either cripple ourselves with Gnosis debt (or wipe our stores of it off), or see what Dumbledore has in store for us.
I'd want to see, for better or for worse.
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
- Location
- Where Jokes Die
[X] Attempt to Learn Basic Occlumency - At the moment, you have no applicable specialties. 7% chance of learning Basic Occlumency at the level of a complete novice, 90% chance of failure and not learning anything, 3% chance of grasping a few of the basic techniques; ones which do not make you an Occlumens, but give you some resistance.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
Frankly, I feel like us knowing Occlumency by itself would raise some suspicions. Even if you take into consideration the fact that living with Sirius could obscure how we did so a little bit, I'm not really willing to chance it. Either all-in or Hail Mary. The middle ground feels too weak for its cost; what use is knowing he's breaching our defenses if there's nothing we can do about it?
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
Frankly, I feel like us knowing Occlumency by itself would raise some suspicions. Even if you take into consideration the fact that living with Sirius could obscure how we did so a little bit, I'm not really willing to chance it. Either all-in or Hail Mary. The middle ground feels too weak for its cost; what use is knowing he's breaching our defenses if there's nothing we can do about it?
- Location
- The Internet
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation
There's also the side benefit of wowing Geist-senpai with our talent.
Anything to make senpai proud!
..
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation
There's also the side benefit of wowing Geist-senpai with our talent.
Anything to make senpai proud!
..
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- Location
- Knowhere
- Pronouns
- You
I am starting to lose faith in geist, what other important stuff hasnt he told Harry because he would Whine.
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Learn Basic Occlumency Now [10 Gnosis] - A 100% chance to learn Basic Occlumency on the level of a complete novice, sufficient to shield your thoughts and make them opaque; a Legilimens such as Dumbledore would be able to shatter your defenses effortlessly, but not without notice, or so says Geist.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[X] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
No matter how sad it is to lose 10 Gnoses, but this is the price that is better to pay now. I am absolutely sure that there will be a couple of young legelements at school who will want to dig into the head of a celebrity, and the further we go, the stronger the lovers of other people's secrets will be. So this gnosis can be seen as an investment in the future.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Attempt to Learn Basic Occlumency - At the moment, you have no applicable specialties. 7% chance of learning Basic Occlumency at the level of a complete novice, 90% chance of failure and not learning anything, 3% chance of grasping a few of the basic techniques; ones which do not make you an Occlumens, but give you some resistance.
[x] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
[x] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
I agree with your analysis on this issue.
And arguably, we have in-story indication that Dumbledore is unlikely to mind-read us. Dumbledore was there in the aftermath of the Dursleys getting mulchedafter all, a time when a) we had been talking with Geist for a while and b) it would make sense to use Legilimency to see what the distraught child is feeling, and nothing came out of that. So either Dumbledore treats his mind-reading powers with an appropriate level of seriousness and doesn't use them willy-nilly, which means we have no reason to worry, or Dumbledore already know about Geist and is fine with his existence, which also gives us no reason to worry.
Either way, I'm of half a mind that this might be an instance of our paranoia getting the better of us, in that Dumbledore likely didn't have any suspicions about us. If he did think we were holding a fragment of the You-Know-Who or were otherwise compromised, he likely wouldn't have wanted to include Neville in this meeting, given Dumledore is a Good Guy and so tries to protect vulnerable children. Geist isn't omniscient and can demonstrably be wrong, see both his reaction to Daphne and his initial disdain and changing opinion on Neville for two recent examples.
[x] Attempt to Learn Basic Occlumency - At the moment, you have no applicable specialties. 7% chance of learning Basic Occlumency at the level of a complete novice, 90% chance of failure and not learning anything, 3% chance of grasping a few of the basic techniques; ones which do not make you an Occlumens, but give you some resistance.
[x] Go Outside - Expose yourself to Dumbledore and his potential mental probes; alternatively, if he proves harmless, enjoy a pleasant conversation.
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It may all very well be just paranoia and Dumbledore might simply want something else, which isn't unlikely given yhe circumstances up to this point.
It's also implied that this situation is time sensitive, which can indicate all sorts of things, so it's all really up in the air.
Having said that, I'd rather not take that risk.
The idea is to present just enough resistance so that Dumbledore will know that we will know if he reads our mind, which might deter him if he knows that we will know since if his assumption proves to be false he risks ruining his relationship with us forever.