Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] [Soul's Rest] Light, track the staff and the reddens. Are the latter communicating with their families? If so what are they saying

This should get us enough juicy info, and less chance of tipping them off early.
When compared to an FBI operation, any data security that these guys are likely to have will be almost negligible. Short of a botch on our end or a massive success on theirs, they are quite likely to remain none the wiser.
What supernatural organizations tend to demonstrate the most tech/computer-savviness? Wizards are pretty much right out due to techbane.
 
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When compared to an FBI operation, any data security that these guys are likely to have will be almost negligible. Short of a botch on our end or a massive success on theirs, they are quite likely to remain none the wiser.
What supernatural organizations tend to demonstrate the most tech/computer-savviness? Wizards are pretty much right out due to techbane.
Do we know that though? Especially if we are going after their financial records, which may be held by a third party service. One which may have a greater level of electronic security because it's a big part of their job.

Assuming we are so superior to our enemies smacks of arrogance. Yes our Cyberdevils should be able to pull off professional grade hacking, but our opponents here may well be professionals too. So risking a chance of putting them on their guard in exchange for a bunch of financial documents we are going to have trouble interpreting anyway because we have Finance 0 doesn't see like a good trade to me.

Yes, maybe they have incompetent digital security. But that's a pretty big maybe.
 
So it's possible that they will have someone for info security stuff, but said person is unlikely to be a professional. Certainly not on the level of Federal Law Enforcement/DoJ.
 
Yes, maybe they have incompetent digital security. But that's a pretty big maybe.
Point about the financial services. However, their personal digital security is unlikely to be much compared to what the FBI and, perhaps, other parts of the Government have.
Hell, even big companies have data leaked/stolen on a semi-regular bases. IDK off the top of my head whether any of those were financial companies, though.
Also, the financial companies would likely only really tell them that their data was compromised. A concern to be sure, but not evidence of an imminent attack.
 
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Do we know that though? Especially if we are going after their financial records, which may be held by a third party service. One which may have a greater level of electronic security because it's a big part of their job.

Assuming we are so superior to our enemies smacks of arrogance. Yes our Cyberdevils should be able to pull off professional grade hacking, but our opponents here may well be professionals too. So risking a chance of putting them on their guard in exchange for a bunch of financial documents we are going to have trouble interpreting anyway because we have Finance 0 doesn't see like a good trade to me.

Yes, maybe they have incompetent digital security. But that's a pretty big maybe.
We dont CARE about putting them on their guard.
As soon as we show up and start asking questions they will be on their guard.
Its a waste of effort.

You overestimate the state of cybersecurity.

In the real world, the multi-billion dollar Colonial pipeline system on the eastern seaboard of the US got hacked by ransomware in 2021. The City of Atlanta and Baltimore got hit by ransomware attacks in 2018 and 2019 respectively. Uber was hit a couple years ago. We've seen powerplants and water treatment facilities, police departments and hospitals, supermarkets and banks get hit.

And thats criminal gangs who tell you because they want you to pay a ransom, or who steal credit card numbers and personal information for sale. Those just in it for espionage dont talk.
Their first assumption if they discover a penetration is going to be criminals or hacker kids, not investigators.

I am pretty comfortable in assuming that a nursing home company does not have the resources to avoid a dedicated cyberespionage campaign by professionals because thats an OCP for their brand of work.
Its a lot like expecting a bunch of beat cops to protect you against Seal Team 6.

And if they do, that tells us that someone spent WAY more money and effort than the norm to do this.
Which is also actionable information.
Literally every measure we take here yields us actionable data. We have no incentive to use kid gloves.
 
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So... stupid question that probably runs into rule 0: @DragonParadox I assume that if we ever run into a safe, we could use our crown to find the combination opening it. Does this also work on internet sites? Ie if we, say, load a gmail login page (or, more relevantly, an FBI e-mail server web interface), could we use our crown to guess the password of a specific person?
 
Adhoc vote count started by the DragonBard on Oct 24, 2022 at 1:44 PM, finished with 48 posts and 19 votes.
17 for hitting the Wellness Center hard, and 15 for starting out with the phone ( though they have the same vote written two different ways.)
Unless I'm missing something the difference is supposed to be that one vote checks Wright's phone and then only if it doesn't pan out proceeds to light hacking.

The other does both regardless of what we get from Wright.
 
So... stupid question that probably runs into rule 0: @DragonParadox I assume that if we ever run into a safe, we could use our crown to find the combination opening it. Does this also work on internet sites? Ie if we, say, load a gmail login page (or, more relevantly, an FBI e-mail server web interface), could we use our crown to guess the password of a specific person?

Yes, you would be able to grab one password per page, of if you are willing to burn individual agent questions you would get the present passwords they are using
 
Yes, you would be able to grab one password per page, of if you are willing to burn individual agent questions you would get the present passwords they are using
Also, some more questions:

1) How big of a server farm can Tool-Transcending Constructs generate? I mean, in a number of applications computer problems are solved by throwing more and more parallel processing at it. I mean, by the logic of the charm, we should, assuming that we have enough space, be able to conjure the world' s top supercomputer equivalent, and then make it magically run 5 to 10 5imes faster, depending on the application.
2) In what way does "work 5 to 10 times faster" is expressed when dealing with computers? Is it in adding operations per second? Is it making wach operation take 1/10 of a time it would normally take?
3) Can our HMP Demons interact with our TTC supercomputers?
4) What sort of software would our conjured computers run? Bootleg windows? Linux? DemonOS? an HMP demon?

Because forget hacking (no, don't forget hacking), there's a lot of stuff we can do if we have the world's top supercomputer from 5 years in the future, and can link sapient infomorph magical demon AIs into it.
 
TTC applies to creating, repairs, and modifications, and for essence allows you to ignore tools requirements. I doubt it would even apply to hacking rolls at all, and even if it did you would only be 10 times faster. Given that most hacking is just waiting until somebody leaves an open access point still not likely.
 
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Unless I'm missing something the difference is supposed to be that one vote checks Wright's phone and then only if it doesn't pan out proceeds to light hacking.

The other does both regardless of what we get from Wright.
Other way round - if our cyberattack starts with his credentials, they could figure out how his device is compromised.

His phone is the faster but more blatant approach
 
TTC applies to creating, repairs, and modifications, and for essence allows you to ignore tools requirements. I doubt it would even apply to hacking rolls at all, and even if it did you would only be 10 times faster. Given that most hacking is just waiting until somebody leaves an open access point still not likely.
Note that I wasn't talking about hacking specifically. I mentioned this previously - design is part of creating and modifying. In modern day, computer modeling is a big part of it. For example, see evolutionary antenna. From optimizing contours of a new wind turbine blades, to designing a new synthetic medicine, to developing a new piece of software via evolutionary algorithms, or making an optimized CPU, there are tons of applications of computer power in modern day engineering. And that's a core part of crafting anything technological.

Then you come to making anything with embedded software, like a drone, or anything more controllable than a knife. For that you need both software and hardware. Software needs to be tested and optimized. Those processes can be automated at least partially, if you throw enough processing power at it.

There's also code breaking and decrypting various cyphers.
 
Do we actually know what we want to do with Daedalus in the mid- to long-term?
They are, for the start, not physically dangerous to us.

The agent we met thinks we are some little diviner and even if they did know we are far more, they would still underestimate us.
Since, if they had an idea of the actual powerscales involved, they'd have tried a softer approach on Dresden who could have easily killed the team of agents just by not being at home and letting a trap charged for super-zombies turn them to dust.

But they are still official enough that any deaths would have a chance of drawing greater consequences.

My favorite option would be to find out that they have been overstepping their allowances and procedures by quite a bit, leak that information to the right superior in the goverment and have them shut down.
That should be in the range of abilties for our Cyberdevils to do.

In the worse case, if all they've done so far is signed off by someone high enough up the chain to make these kind of issues go away, we could still find dirt and leak it to the public.
"FBI falsly arrests American citizen and attempts blackmail on the hunt for monsters and wizards" sounds like the kind of stuff the media would love to bring, particularly with real evidence we could get.
That might also get them shut down fast enough.
 
My favorite option would be to find out that they have been overstepping their allowances and procedures by quite a bit, leak that information to the right superior in the goverment and have them shut down.
That should be in the range of abilties for our Cyberdevils to do.
Something like this, yes, only I'd add "and then get something better put in their place, while ideally getting government sanction and backing to operate for the side of angels / the good of humanity". I mean, modern government's desire to protect its citizens and to be able to punish criminals is not something bad. It's part of the social contract - citizens pay taxes, the government protects them and ensures the functionality of society. Now, modern mundane governments aren't equipped with tools or knowledge to effectively deal with the supernatural. That can be changed, as long as good practices are brought in from the ground floor.

Ideally, I see a situation where the government provides intelligence gathering, like identyfying talents or signs of warlock/vampire activity, backing, from giving Harry and us an FBI badge, and lets us (or Wardens) deal with stuff where they themselves can't. In exchange they get reports filed on what's going on (cyberdevil secretaries and bodycams could handle this for us), so they can plan things, and anticipate stuff like "half of the south american governments are about to fail because the vampire court that controlled them has been genocided".
 
Also, some more questions:

1) How big of a server farm can Tool-Transcending Constructs generate? I mean, in a number of applications computer problems are solved by throwing more and more parallel processing at it. I mean, by the logic of the charm, we should, assuming that we have enough space, be able to conjure the world' s top supercomputer equivalent, and then make it magically run 5 to 10 5imes faster, depending on the application.
2) In what way does "work 5 to 10 times faster" is expressed when dealing with computers? Is it in adding operations per second? Is it making wach operation take 1/10 of a time it would normally take?
3) Can our HMP Demons interact with our TTC supercomputers?
4) What sort of software would our conjured computers run? Bootleg windows? Linux? DemonOS? an HMP demon?

Because forget hacking (no, don't forget hacking), there's a lot of stuff we can do if we have the world's top supercomputer from 5 years in the future, and can link sapient infomorph magical demon AIs into it.
  1. Eh... I am going to have to think about this. I do not think TTC should grant extra dice for hacking rolls, just let you make the rolls where you would otherwise not be allowed to, that seems the intent of the charm
  2. Ten times more operations I would say
  3. They cannot get in, not material enough for them
  4. Whatever you are most comfortable with, though you can ask for something else
 
  1. Eh... I am going to have to think about this. I do not think TTC should grant extra dice for hacking rolls, just let you make the rolls where you would otherwise not be allowed to, that seems the intent of the charm
  2. Ten times more operations I would say
  3. They cannot get in, not material enough for them
  4. Whatever you are most comfortable with, though you can ask for something else
1. Thanks. I understand perfectly well that this might run right into "rules as intended vs rules as written" contradiction, which is why I am asking. As pointed in my next post, the question was more broad than the one about hacking. Having a world's top supercomputer, only 10 times faster, where each operation takes 1/10th of what it would normally do is a tremendous advantage in a tons of areas. From high frequency trading, to protein design, to a number of other engineering problems.
3. So, they can't directly possess the created server cluster. Can they still communicate with it? Via network algorithms. Or is the intent here that only we personally can use the tool, and we can't manifest it while commanding our minions to make use of it? If so, that would also probably apply for when / if we try making something while commanding people in a larger scale projects (like going into our kingdom and leading a warstrider mecha build project).
 
1. Thanks. I understand perfectly well that this might run right into "rules as intended vs rules as written" contradiction, which is why I am asking. As pointed in my next post, the question was more broad than the one about hacking. Having a world's top supercomputer, only 10 times faster, where each operation takes 1/10th of what it would normally do is a tremendous advantage in a tons of areas. From high frequency trading, to protein design, to a number of other engineering problems.
3. So, they can't directly possess the created server cluster. Can they still communicate with it? Via network algorithms. Or is the intent here that only we personally can use the tool, and we can't manifest it while commanding our minions to make use of it? If so, that would also probably apply for when / if we try making something while commanding people in a larger scale projects (like going into our kingdom and leading a warstrider mecha build project).
  1. Using that for engineering is valid.
  2. They can communicate with it as long as you conjure it to be able to but to a limited extent, so if it has i don't know an audio link they can talk to you on it, but they cannot make use of it's functions directly. TTC is conjuring tools for the exalt, not their assistants
 
  1. Using that for engineering is valid.
  2. They can communicate with it as long as you conjure it to be able to but to a limited extent, so if it has i don't know an audio link they can talk to you on it, but they cannot make use of it's functions directly. TTC is conjuring tools for the exalt, not their assistants
Thanks for the information. Well, the second part will require a bit of a workaround, but that still allows us to type in code designed by our cyberdevils to compile and run in the supercomputer.
 
I mean, modern government's desire to protect its citizens and to be able to punish criminals is not something bad.
I don't see it that way.

Being able to punish supernatural criminals in the USA would inevitable have to involve a treaty with the Fey Courts, the Vampire Courts or the White Council made in equal standing.

This is basically impossible.

If Mab were willing or able to keep her people from hunting humans for fun, sport or nourishment she would have done so long ago.
What means does the goverment have to pursue a Fetch in Arctis Tor, or even a Red Vamp in Chichen Itza?
Any serious attempt at law-enforcement against supernatural powers will most likely end in open war between the goverment in question and several supernatural powers and have terrible consequences for the entire world.
 
Isn't one of the big problems of the White Council right now that it is overworked because of the massive increase in human population? Having an organisation with government backing that can take care of the grunt work could be a big help no? Tip offs for budding warlocks. Outreach to more talents so that they don't become warlocks in the first place. As long as the organisation can be trusted they could do a lot of good.
 
Isn't one of the big problems of the White Council right now that it is overworked because of the massive increase in human population? Having an organisation with government backing that can take care of the grunt work could be a big help no? Tip offs for budding warlocks. Outreach to more talents so that they don't become warlocks in the first place. As long as the organisation can be trusted they could do a lot of good.
Such things would work, but not as any official goverment agency.

If the goverment were to acknowledge the existance of the various supernatural factions there would suddenly be major issues with crime and jurisdiction, territorial integrity and even monopoly of force as a basic principle for the state itself.

The goverment, any goverment, is much better off putting their hands on their ears and ignoring the supernatural, or they run into problems on a barely imaginable scale.
 
I don't see it that way.

Being able to punish supernatural criminals in the USA would inevitable have to involve a treaty with the Fey Courts, the Vampire Courts or the White Council made in equal standing.

This is basically impossible.

If Mab were willing or able to keep her people from hunting humans for fun, sport or nourishment she would have done so long ago.
What means does the goverment have to pursue a Fetch in Arctis Tor, or even a Red Vamp in Chichen Itza?
Any serious attempt at law-enforcement against supernatural powers will most likely end in open war between the goverment in question and several supernatural powers and have terrible consequences for the entire world.
That is true, but not pursuing this goal is betraying the trust and the mandate invested into them by the citizens. The government is elected on the basis that it will fulfill its mandate. That mandate involves maintaining national security. If it willingly abandons said mandate and obligations while keeping the benefits, it transitions from a legitimate government to... I'n not sure what, but certainly not a legitimate government.

And there are certainly compromises and politics that can be made. As I understand it, USA government is not made of complete idiots. If pursuit of a criminal is impossible due to repercussions of war, the criminal won't be pursued. It won't, however, stop them from trying to prevent attacks on their citizens in their territory.

The ideal solution would be that Wardens get FBI badges and government authority, while the massive increase in personnel provided by government involvement, including recruitment of minor talents, allows for more effective warlock prevention and more punishment variation than "off with their heads".
Isn't one of the big problems of the White Council right now that it is overworked because of the massive increase in human population? Having an organisation with government backing that can take care of the grunt work could be a big help no? Tip offs for budding warlocks. Outreach to more talents so that they don't become warlocks in the first place. As long as the organisation can be trusted they could do a lot of good.
Basically this, yes.
Such things would work, but not as any official goverment agency.

If the goverment were to acknowledge the existance of the various supernatural factions there would suddenly be major issues with crime and jurisdiction, territorial integrity and even monopoly of force as a basic principle for the state itself.

The goverment, any goverment, is much better off putting their hands on their ears and ignoring the supernatural, or they run into problems on a barely imaginable scale.
All this would almost certainly be done under the table.
 
The ideal solution would be that Wardens get FBI badges and government authority, while the massive increase in personnel provided by government involvement, including recruitment of minor talents, allows for more effective warlock prevention and more punishment variation than "off with their heads".
Making people very obviously beholden to a foreign power agents of your law?
That seems like it would cause a lot more problems.

As for the part above that, that would require very selective application of laws, something that is not really desirable in a law-based system, or possible to do with consistently good results.

All this would almost certainly be done under the table.
Working under the table leads to shit like Daedalus and its predecessors.
People with too little oversight and just enough true knowledge to be dangerous going out there and either making enemies they can't deal with or blowing themselves up badly enough to need a Knight of the Cross for cleanup.
 
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Isn't one of the big problems of the White Council right now that it is overworked because of the massive increase in human population? Having an organisation with government backing that can take care of the grunt work could be a big help no? Tip offs for budding warlocks. Outreach to more talents so that they don't become warlocks in the first place. As long as the organisation can be trusted they could do a lot of good.
Also casualties vs Kemmler. Replacing centuries old wizards is a slow process, and their operations, including recruitment, are vastly below what they need
 
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