Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
...okay, I'm not sure if this is a deliberate AU feature or if it's supposed to give me the screaming meemies. Attorney-client privilege covers all communications regarding legal advice between anyone and their lawyer, always, regardless of circumstances, unless said privilege was explicitly and voluntarily waived (or the communication was made publicly/in front of somebody else, or was made for the purpose of committing a crime [like, an additional one; trying to get off when you actually did it isn't a crime and is covered]). It is absolutely horrifying- I literally don't have the words- to consider that the state might have the ability to "nah, fuck you" attorney-client privilege.
Edit: Perhaps the clearest way I can emphasize this to convey the depth of my horror is to state that "attorney-client privilege" just as foundational a legal principle and more important than "innocent until proven guilty", and ask you to think real hard about your reaction to a violation of the latter.
Last edited:
Yeah; that was so crazy that I spent some time looking into it, and I can't find any evidence of such an exemption to attorney client privilege existing.
Various law firms all have pages on attorney client privilege, this one covers it all pretty well.
It's doesn't explicitly say that they can't just refuse to allow a prisoner to see a lawyer in a context where they can expect private contact with a lawyer, but refusing that while keeping someone in jail effectively directly restricts your right to an attorney.
Unless I've missed something they legitimately can't do this, and trying it in front of a defense attorney is asking to spend the next decade with the justice department's boot stuck so far up your ass you can taste the sole.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And it kind of bypasses some of the point of attorney-client privilege, in a way that is obviously ripe for abuse, since the authorities can say they're "just under suspicion" until it's too late in the investigation for the attorney to do much.
Shady government agencies that are already ignoring some legal procedures also sneaking around attorney-client privilege, I can buy, but this is the kind of law that's too stupid for even the government to pass, if only because corrupt politicians can see that law being used against them.
Shady government agencies that are already ignoring some legal procedures also sneaking around attorney-client privilege, I can buy, but this is the kind of law that's too stupid for even the government to pass, if only because corrupt politicians can see that law being used against them.
Checks again. Oops. Looks like I misread an article, there were recorded meetings in state jail, but without audio. Will fix, one moment
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Sounds like the cover art for a Power Metal album from the new band Screaming Nuclear Hatefire.
Even then it's playing with fire. As soon as anyone with a law degree figured out what you're doing they're running for the hills, and possibly reporting you.
The government isn't 100% slimy bastards by volume, but even if it were this is the sort of thing where the ACLU and co smoke you like a Cuban cigar and look good doing it.
Very few people would be willing to take that risk just because you ask them to.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Easiest way to retcon the mistaken about attorney client privilege in the chapter, @DragonParadox, would be for Father Forthill to outright state that the Feds cannot be trusted given their recruitment tactics thus far, so he'll keep things brief and ambiguous. Kidnapping and blackmail don't exactly engender feelings of trust.
Interlude has been edited. As Forthil is reasonably sure he is not being recorded, or at the very least that the recording will not be used officially he said a lot more.
Also, I've got to say, Forthill seems like a pretty shit lawyer so far. I mean telling your client to take a deal despite being able to demonstrate they're innocent is pretty bad, but not even trying to get them to run it past you before signing is just lazy.
This whole thing is especially bad since if he knows Harry is on a time crunch and thinks the authorities are violating privilege announcing it that way lets the FBI know they still have more leverage than just getting Dresden his weekend back if they weren't already aware.
The FBI could walk in just after he leaves and give him a bullshit deal based on this conversation, and spend the rest of his stay trying to pressure him into it by guessing and checking what tactics make him upset.
What is he, a contract lawyer who failed to mention he has no idea how to help when we asked him to represent Harry?
Edit:
A lot of this is addressed by the edits to the chapter.
This whole thing is especially bad since if he knows Harry is on a time crunch and thinks the authorities are violating privilege announcing it that way lets the FBI know they still have more leverage than just getting Dresden his weekend back if they weren't already aware.
The FBI could walk in just after he leaves and give him a bullshit deal based on this conversation, and spend the rest of his stay trying to pressure him into it by guessing and checking what tactics make him upset.
What is he, a contract lawyer who failed to mention he has no idea how to help when we asked him to represent Harry?
Edit:
A lot of this is addressed by the edits to the chapter.
Last edited:
interlude was fun.
loved to see Harry as the one sitting back while others do the mission
loved to see Harry as the one sitting back while others do the mission
He is not telling him to take the deal and he does not know if Harry is in a time crunch so he said 'if you are in a time crunch take the lesser deal'. The reason he is doing that is because he know that the kind of things that put Harry in a time crunch can be really bad, like Darkhallow bad. To counter that he made it clear that if there is no screaming emergency he's going to get him out Monday.
Last edited:
I reckon Lash doesn't want to be near ground zero for this either...
Fair enough. In the original version it came off sort of tone deaf on Forthill's part since he knew stuff he wasn't sharing that changed the situation for Dresden but also said something that could be read as implying an urgent situation where the FBI might be listening.
Could have just been me reading too much into it.
For someone so insulated from direct consequences from their victims being around an upset mortal with at least one power that can screw you over with no contest must be very unsettling. I can't wait till we get that exorcism going and can run around ruining the Denarians days.
Even past taking them from their hosts, we should make the time to do unpleasant things to the coins. Sure they'll get around it eventually, but it'll be really annoying until they do.
Stuff like going to the really weird bits of the nevernever and leaving them in pocket worlds, or pawning them to Hades to add to his biblical collection.
We almost certainly couldn't make the time for it, but I'm also tempted by the idea of hacking together travel and environmental protection stuff to have a go at flying to the moon to bury some of them there. Sure they'd get our eventually, but it'd be a real pain in the ass.
Unfortunately, even at the most convenient read of our potential travel abilities and the distances involved it'd still be a 60 day trip one way.
The NeverNever has paths that reach the moon.
Allegedly to reach the Gatekeeper's domain, you have to walk across the moon by WoJ. And I doubt Rashid would appreciate us littering the paths to his territory with high-grade magical waste.
If Hades would take them I'd hand them off. But I have my doubts he'd take them either. Or be allowed to hold them.
It all depends on the rules under which the Fallen are allowed to operate on Earth.
It may be a balance thing from when Christ walked out of death in Dresdenverse mythology; Christ died and walked, and so thirty Fallen were permitted to leave Hell under very strict conditions.
If there's a magically enforced contract in play, there's no point trying to move them offworld; they'll just get teleported back somewhere a human or someone who qualifies as mortal can pick them up.
Else the logical thing would be to stick each coin in a block of warded metal and concrete, fly an hour or so off the US west coast and drop it into the abyssal depths of the Pacific. Bonus points if you drop it into one of the deep sea trenches.
You cant tell me the Catholic Church hasnt tried deep sixing at least one coin before only to have it turn up again.
Sudden shift from first to second person here, keeps in second till the last sentence which shifts back to first.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Isn't that Hell also going to be our soul? If so, I would rather not keep the coins there.
Thats a hard No boss.
We will have humans there. Loyal or not, bringing in a coin is just begging for a Boromir/One Ring scenario.
And as a general rule, storing magical waste in something connected to your soul seems like a bad idea.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Literally just adepta sororitas armour.
That does not work because the other fallen can just retrieve the coin. They have ways to track each other.
We don't have to have humans there, we could simply have a population of non-human supernatural creatures.
And more than one charm consigns defeated enemies to the Infernal's inner hell without a concern that they'd breakout or damage the place. The Coins aren't magical waste, they're magical prisoners, and that's the purpose of the Hells, prisons.
Last edited:
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
They can escape. That is the point of those charms. The inner world is a mini Yomi Wan and it must always have an escape clause. Same with Infernal inner world.
They can have escape routes. It would could be made arbitrarily hard to achieve that though. Particularly for entities already imprisoned in Coins.
Last edited: