[X] Plan Fortunate Perfects
[X] Plan: Desires fulfilled
[X] Plan: If Looks Could Kill
[X] Plan: Desires fulfilled
[X] Plan: If Looks Could Kill
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
It's flowery language that says the defense roll doesn't matter.
An attack is not unblockable if you can block most of it, nor undodgable if you can mostly evade it.
What I'm telling you is that the mechanism is irrelevant. If it does damage then it is damage and not shaping. It doesn't matter how you do damage, only that you're doing it. Remember this discussion?
Damage is damage is damage.
A magically damaging effect inside your body is the same as a fireball at your face is the same as a sniper rifle for this purpose.
Robots roll soak and fill boxes on their health track when someone tries to fold them into a box using matter for the same reason that you can't use a shaping defense against this sort of thing.
That is is system text perfect attacks are still rolled attacks and characters still defend as if they were normal attack you just hit no matter what even if they roll well enough to block you.
I do remember that discussion. So does the character being effected by SBS get to roll counter magic because that's the only way that what you're saying makes sense. Either it's a shaping effect from which there is no defense other than a shaping defense or it's a magical attack at which point you make a magical defense against a magical attack that's trying to boil your blood in your veins.
Damage is damage is damage after all. As you can counter magic a fireball.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Maybe consider this in the plan votes?
- Location
- washington
I don't think it should be considered magic. Especially since it isn't.
BoredMan
Chat. I think we fucked up.
The entire point of SBS is that it's a perfect attack, unless the opponent has a perfect, they don't roll and we do damage and that's it.
They don't counter it, they don't avoid it, they don't block it, they just take it.
And no, that doesn't make it shaping, for an effect to be shaping, it has to be marked as such, SBS isn't, it's an attack, not a shaping effect.
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Unless they have enough stamina or We Roll poorly you mean. So if they had to use a perfect defense to block SBS which one do you think it would be would it be the shaping Perfect Defense the soak Perfect Defense or the Parry Perfect defense.
My read is that your defense dice don't matter and if the attacker fails on their own they still get to hit. By definition mitigation by blocking is blocking an attack. From what I can see online that seems in line with previous games. I think we need some additional clarification.
They would if we were talking about something other than a perfect attack, which needs a perfect to stop. That's kinda the whole point of them being a category of their own above the normal stuff. SBS was ruled to be our perfect ages ago and I've quoted it to many times before.
To be honest this whole thing seems like the worst sort of rules lawyering. Shaping is a defined term for game purposes that encompasses non-damaging effects. Our shaping defense clearly outlines what it relates to.
The position you're taking makes these categories meaningless. Things get to be whatever's convenient at the time.
Faith is Current Rating * 7 XP worth. Tiffany is at 3, so it takes 21 XP to raise it. We cannot afford it, and it's likely cheaper to spend an AP doing something to raise it in-story. We could also possibly raise it via VEE, but i'm not sure if that's the best use of that charm.
Redeeming the Nephilim with Tiffany's input seems like a good route to try and raise her Faith, and maybe decrease her torment.
It's not a shaping effect, as noted by the fact the charms doesn't say it's a shaping effect, so you use a perfect defense and not a shaping defense if you want to try to defend against it.
Anyway, I thought of another thing on the discussion of Sandstrike vs SBS:
SBS may be considered better against crowds due to lasting a scene, but the thing is that we don't fight crowds that can attack from a distance the immense majority of the time (I don't remember a single case since almost the beginning of the quest) and every situation where we would can be solved by running at them fast and taking them in melee.
The combination of *numerous enough to require more attacks than what SBS would need* with *will damage us through our soak enough to make us want to kill them fast* is vanishingly small, and for this case?
Well, that's is covered if we take CCI at the same time, because we can then choose their type of attack for it, run towards them when they can't hurt us, and kill them in melee.
All perfects work that way. If you botch your damage roll the opponent doesn't take damage. In terms of stamina all rolls cap at difficulty 9 after modification. In the unlikely scenario where we can't bring it down to something reasonable we can still technically use it. There's not a point where it just turns off.
As to which they need to stop it? Literally any damage related perfect defense. Unlike a Solar we don't have a means to bypass them and a perfect defense doesn't have to make rational sense to apply. You can dodge things that cannot miss, parry things which cannot be diverted from their course, and block forces which cannot be resisted.
Deflecting spite rays from your sword or whatever is entirely normal for this sort of thing.
No it's not shaping effects in second edition include things like being immolated from the inside out by the sorcery spell internal flames. Is not at all restricted to non-damaging effects and there are tons of infections taint and otherwise bodily control effects that would also deal damage like what are you even saying here. You can give just straight up give someone cancer using pattern alteration like what is this idea that shaping affects have to be non-damaging coming from.
You know what sure whatever.
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This doesn't make sense.
There are no keywords in exalted versus world of Darkness. Just like there aren't key words in world of Darkness. The closest thing to a keyword is creatures of Darkness which is just a lable on creatures rather than a charm effect based thing. Effects that would be labeled psyche or UMI aren't labeled that way they just say that you do mind control. None of the Sea of boiling oil charms have the sea keyword Golden Years tarnish black doesn't have the emotion illusion or social keyword either. Orbital impact storm doesn't have the Sorcerous or obvious keyword.
I could go on but honestly why would you even bring up keywords like that is... I'm going to stop there.
Yeah, yeah, I rechecked and removed that part.
But anyway:
We are not in second edition, and the rules are those Dragon wants to use.
Dragon told that an effect doing damage means it's not shaping.
Sinner Boiling stare does damage.
Sinner Boiling stare is not shaping.
End of the line.
Edit:
Though frankly? I think removing the keyword was a mistake exactly because it leads to this sort of discussion.
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no They haven't @BronzeTongue is extrapolating to far that quote is about whether or not they could shape the war droids as if they were nonliving matter. Not a stance on whether shaping effects can be damaging or not. That is why I'm asking where the belief that shaping is purely non damaging effects comes from.
Edit: I knew I remembered a blood-based effect that happened that made me think SBS might be shaping.
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Silvereagle21
Soaring through the Sky
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Plan Primordial Circle Endowment v3
[X] Plan: You do it
[X] Plan: You do it
@DragonParadox I'm sorry to bother you, but this is rather important in context of what we can do and the value of Sinner Boiling Stare as a charm. The text of the charm is
1) What happens if the target doesn't have liquids in their bodies. For example, if they are a spirit, or a magically animated metal golem?
2) What does "line of sight" mean in context of denarians while they are inside their coins? Do we count as seeing the Fallen while they are inside the coin? If the answer is no for normal vision, would activating Hellscry Chakra in aura-seeing mode change that? If still no, what about after we obtain Sight?
3) Finally, if Sinner Boiling Stare can affect targets that don't have liquids in their bodies, and denarians inside their coins are "within line of sight", would using Sinner Boiling Stare on a confined denarian break the coin? The damage is supposed to come from inside the target, not outside, so it's not clear to me.
The questions I have about the charm are:
1) What happens if the target doesn't have liquids in their bodies. For example, if they are a spirit, or a magically animated metal golem?
2) What does "line of sight" mean in context of denarians while they are inside their coins? Do we count as seeing the Fallen while they are inside the coin? If the answer is no for normal vision, would activating Hellscry Chakra in aura-seeing mode change that? If still no, what about after we obtain Sight?
3) Finally, if Sinner Boiling Stare can affect targets that don't have liquids in their bodies, and denarians inside their coins are "within line of sight", would using Sinner Boiling Stare on a confined denarian break the coin? The damage is supposed to come from inside the target, not outside, so it's not clear to me.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x] Plan: Desires fulfilled
[x] Plan: You do it
[x] Plan: Ally buffs, and enemy bane
[x] Plan: You do it
[x] Plan: Ally buffs, and enemy bane
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- Location
- Canada
Michael: So... you now have an ability you like to call Sinner Boiling Stare.
Molly: Yep! I can now spontaneously murder people with a glare!
Michael: And it only works on sinners?
Molly: Specifically, people who've wronged me. Like, for example, leaving me hanging on a high five.
Michael: ... and that's enough to let you boil every liquid in their body with a glance.
Molly: Absolutely. There's no such thing as minor inconveniences around me anymore.
Molly: Yep! I can now spontaneously murder people with a glare!
Michael: And it only works on sinners?
Molly: Specifically, people who've wronged me. Like, for example, leaving me hanging on a high five.
Michael: ... and that's enough to let you boil every liquid in their body with a glance.
Molly: Absolutely. There's no such thing as minor inconveniences around me anymore.