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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Yog said:
May I ask why do you think that WP or essence affecting excellency would be bad for balance? As far as I can see, the main scenarios for using it would be opposed rolls when resisting someone or them resisting our charms.
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Willpower used defensively is basically covered by our Perfect Mental defense, so there's no point to it.

Essence on the other hand, is highly relevant to all attempts to counterspell our Charms, especially those without activation roll.
You're locking out Mages from messing with us there, which is one of the last places shere they can mess with us at all, since certainly no mage we've seen so far can win a straight physical fight, and the mental side is shit down anyway.

Please just keep in mind that DP has to be able to build enemies that can credibly threaten Molly, or we might as well call the quest over.
Shitting down one more of the few ways to do so is counterproductive in my eyes.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Willpower used defensively is basically covered by our Perfect Mental defense, so there's no point to it.

Essence on the other hand, is highly relevant to all attempts to counterspell our Charms, especially those without activation roll.
You're locking out Mages from messing with us there, which is one of the last places shere they can mess with us at all, since certainly no mage we've seen so far can win a straight physical fight, and the mental side is shit down anyway.

Please just keep in mind that DP has to be able to build enemies that can credibly threaten Molly, or we might as well call the quest over.
Shitting down one more of the few ways to do so is counterproductive in my eyes.
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I wrote out a whole long thing but you were talking to someone else so I'll condense it down to this.

Everything the essence would be able to defend against we can already Excellency because Mage counter spells are just spells that pull down magic not anything else which means we already have a human counter spell that works any vampiric discipline that would also rely on that Essence equivalency is also covered by the same Excellency of pool of counter spell because we have a vampiric counter spell.

The only thing this shuts down is... nothing every way that would rely on an essence equivalence to work is already covered by the fact that we just have counter spells and perfect defenses. Both vampires and mages are better off just using just outright physical effects of any type discipline or spell. Poison or just Potence.

There is something to be said about the essence Plus One turns on it but honestly they're just aren't enough disciplines to even exhaust our willpower pool on perfect defending against a particular disciplines attack and that makes us immune from that discipline for the rest of the scene.

This is not quite true of Mage spells but we have both a night folk counter spell and normal counterspell against them.

Jesus I said I would condense this down but this is still really long. My bad.
 
Yog said:
Fetiches are the same thing from the completely opposite direction. You take an already existing, preferably powerful, spirit, and put it into a material vessel to create a fetich. This instead forges a spirit ex-nihilo from the base object. Essetially, the logic was - if we could make bane before we had any crafting charms, then making more banes by way of having an appropriate charm seems reasonable.
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My bad I did not mean that from like a flavor Direction I meant like from a power/ mechanical direction jagglings, gafflings are like minor fetishes level spirits while awaken the spirits unless you do something particularly intense with them do kind of fit that level of least God that you were talking about minorly magical learn the things that the thing knew that kind of thing.
Yog said:
Infernals bear the legacy of unbreakable oaths in more ways than any other exalt. They are exalted, created specifically to circumvent the divine geass. They are infernals, made to circumvent Surrender Oaths. It seemed somewhat thematically appropriate to give an infernal rope to hang themselves with and a tool to propagate the cycle of hatred by. It would be in Yozi nature to desire to subject others to their humiliation, and to restore their rightful place in the universe - that of undisputed tyrants.
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Okay I think I get it or at least I think I get what you're getting at but shouldn't this be something like "Lay the Geas" rather than focusing on the surrender oaths focus on the inborn bindings and restrictions that they deliberately placed on the gods and the Elementals and who knows how many other species that prevented them from striking at the primordials.

As you have a stipulation that mentions creating a being maybe something more focused on the beings who created slavery in the first place on purpose creating living tools that were bound to never resist is a better place to draw from both thematically as Undisputed Tyrant and kind of fluffwise as the surrender oaths were something that was done to the primordials not something they controlled in any particular way and well anything even kind of remotely similar to The Surrender Oaths is less than dust at this point kind of like the great curse.

Though my main problem remains there are absolute effects in EXvs WOD this much is undoubted. Just the no way to tell or to escape gives me the heebie-jeebies as ancient sorcery can be counter spelled and that's the closest thing other than devil refining cauldron or SPS to this as at least both of those are essentially just methods of killing the enemy and getting something useful out of it.
Yog said:
No negative consequences to the target is intentional. Because I also very specifically didn't limit the borrowing to the willing targets or our minions. And I also mentioned Swords of the Cross for a reason in my explanation of the charm. It's to level a playing field. Imagine if you are a fresh infernal going into politics. You have a debate with an experienced politician (politics 5). Use this charm when you shake hands at the start of the debate. Or if someone is fighting you - you need only to touch them to get equal level of skill.
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Okay that's interesting the dot rating probably needs to go up by one if that's the case and they're probably needs to be some kind of awareness roll at a kind of high difficulty because it is a magical effect that directly interfaces with another person but other than that that's fine. I would look at verdant emptiness endowment to see how it goes about complimentary effects.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
I suppose the mortals aren't in a position to appreciate the show? What with their world views shattering around them and all. :V
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The mortals are appreciating enough.
The Denarian even spend his opening move on killing some, causing panic in the others.

I suspect that was no senseless sadism, but that the Denarians actually profit from the suffering around them in some way.
Boni, or faster regeneration of magical resources like Faith or Mana perhaps.
They are noted to be at there best in such circumstances, if I remember correctly.
 
Artemis1992 said:
The mortals are appreciating enough.
The Denarian even spend his opening move on killing some, causing panic in the others.

I suspect that was no senseless sadism, but that the Denarians actually profit from the suffering around them in some way.
Boni, or faster regeneration of magical resources like Faith or Mana perhaps.
They are noted to be at there best in such circumstances, if I remember correctly.
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Oh yeah, she's spending Faith in what would be a ruinous rate for Tiffany.
 
Artemis1992 said:
The mortals are appreciating enough.
The Denarian even spend his opening move on killing some, causing panic in the others.

I suspect that was no senseless sadism, but that the Denarians actually profit from the suffering around them in some way.
Boni, or faster regeneration of magical resources like Faith or Mana perhaps.
They are noted to be at there best in such circumstances, if I remember correctly.
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DragonParadox said:
Most of them are rather focused on the Demonic Elephant bringing forth doom upon the world of men... or at least trying to.
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I was mostly joking about them seeing high level superhuman nonsense happening right in front of them, but yeah the murdering would hold attention pretty well.

Edit:

Didn't we get it explicitly confirmed that hurting people helps the Fallen? That's why Tiffany tested if she could get supernatural power (instead of simple satisfaction) from hitting Dresden when first given a body.
 
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