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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Looking though the paths on the wiki they tend towards things like alchemy, enchanting, cursing. Nothing that you cast right in the middle of the fight you cast them all hours or day before the fight so that there isn't a fight.

In a actual fight just shooting with prepared and enchanted rayguns seems like the way to go, but in that case why did we bring the casters personally and not just the stuff that they made?
 
fictionfan said:
Looking though the paths on the wiki they tend towards things like alchemy, enchanting, cursing. Nothing that you cast right in the middle of the fight you cast them all hours or day before the fight so that there isn't a fight.

In a actual fight just shooting with prepared and enchanted rayguns seems like the way to go, but in that case why did we bring the casters personally and not just the stuff that they made?
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You guys wrote in Combat Sorcerers so I was thinking Path of Hellfire, which is really more like Path of Forces, though I put the write in in case you had other ideas

Nyarky said:
Link on this one doesn't work.
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Fixed now, thanks for the heads up.
 
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God damned dresden the one time he has to be a good fucking shot.

I mean the best sorcerers would be mana sorcerers, again for counter spelling and just shoot guns.
 
[X] Plan: Flame and Fortune
-[X] Hellfire Sorcerer
-[X] Fortune Sorcerer

Master Sorcerers can cast spells both quickly and without willpower cost if they are of lesser stature than their max and might also have spells hanging and prepared ritually. Higher levels of fortune(3) could literally make some of these enemies fall over in the middle of a spell that they are casting or drop the focus they casting with or general unfortunate happenstances like that. Not To mention being able to buff the entire party with an additional dice on all actions.

Master Hellfire Sorcerers can cast Level three and below spells in one round for 1 willpower especially in conjuction with Fortune. This Is in addition to any hung or ritual spells they may have Or considerably the melee skills they may possess, considering the targeting apparatus for hellfire.

Heres hoping wizards and warbots blessed by the tides of fate and And enemies slipping on loose gravel and ending up on morgan sword win out the day.
 
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fictionfan said:
Looking though the paths on the wiki they tend towards things like alchemy, enchanting, cursing. Nothing that you cast right in the middle of the fight you cast them all hours or day before the fight so that there isn't a fight.

In a actual fight just shooting with prepared and enchanted rayguns seems like the way to go, but in that case why did we bring the casters personally and not just the stuff that they made?
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Because trained sorcerers give you flexibility. They are multitools.

It really isnt all that hard to invoke resistance/immunity to a given damage modality; its a 15-minute or less ritual for a Path of Hellfire specialist to soak fire damage as bashing, which would largely eliminate most of the impact of a laser.
Thats why our guys carry melee weapons as backup.

And someone with Path of Fortune can just as easily invoke DC buffs to themselves.
Or against the enemy. If you carry your prepped and enchanted rayguns, and a Fortune sorcerer hits you and your clique with a curse that increases your DCs by 2 from DC6 to DC8, you're kinda fucked for the scene.

Acolyte said:
God damned dresden the one time he has to be a good fucking shot.
I mean the best sorcerers would be mana sorcerers, again for counter spelling and just shoot guns.
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Wizard, not gunman. The gun is a backup weapon, not a primary.
Harry has never made a high-risk shot in his life; why would you expect him to do so now?
His fluffing this one is entirely IC.


The Dresdenverse meta conclusively demonstrates that guns are primarily a backup at best. If they were that good, everyone would focus effort on enchanted guns; instead, even vampires who could benefit from their use dont really use them besides as an anti-mortal, or secondary weapon.
 
fictionfan said:
Looking though the paths on the wiki they tend towards things like alchemy, enchanting, cursing. Nothing that you cast right in the middle of the fight you cast them all hours or day before the fight so that there isn't a fight.
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As far as I remember the fortune/luck or whatever it is called and transformation paths are the best for beating someone in the fight directly. if you are a pure mortal. Since you can get a decent amount of bonus dice and difficulty modifiers out of them to just beat the shit out of most opponents. You can even do the Might Guy - Open the Eight Gates as a death curse out of them where for a scene you can fight closer to a full on exalt but then you die horribly.
 
@DragonParadox how do you feel about Dark Ages Pillars as options for FCF practitioners? Perhaps not all of them, but a subset to include with thematic sorcery paths.

I was looking around, and while in their source book they were a mage power they're really foreign to the spheres in a way that makes the shift from one to the other hard to see. They've generally got more reach than sorcery paths, but are significantly more limited than any of the proper spheres. the Old Faith Pillars for example read more like super sorcery than Awakened Magic.

A 5 dot Winter practitioner can say deaden emotions, manipulate water, and try to snuff out lives directly, but they can't do anything like what a Mage with the sphere to try those things could do. They're just delightfully weird and alien to DF casters.
 
BronzeTongue said:
@DragonParadox how do you feel about Dark Ages Pillars as options for FCF practitioners? Perhaps not all of them, but a subset to include with thematic sorcery paths.

I was looking around, and while in their source book they were a mage power they're really foreign to the spheres in a way that makes the shift from one to the other hard to see. They've generally got more reach than sorcery paths, but are significantly more limited than any of the proper spheres. the Old Faith Pillars for example read more like super sorcery than Awakened Magic.

A 5 dot Winter practitioner can say deaden emotions, manipulate water, and try to snuff out lives directly, but they can't do anything like what a Mage with the sphere to try those things could do. They're just delightfully weird and alien to DF casters.
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It's a cool idea, but it does not work for metaphysical (and somewhat spoiler-y) reasons.
 
uju32 said:
Wizard, not gunman. The gun is a backup weapon, not a primary.
Harry has never made a high-risk shot in his life; why would you expect him to do so now?
His fluffing this one is entirely IC.
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Dude carries a gun, he should know how to use it and he should be using magic to hit better.
uju32 said:
The Dresdenverse meta conclusively demonstrates that guns are primarily a backup at best. If they were that good, everyone would focus effort on enchanted guns; instead, even vampires who could benefit from their use dont really use them besides as an anti-mortal, or secondary weapon.
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Thats not true, we know how effective they are from the miltia in battlegrounds.

Enchanted anti magic rounds would basically kill most things. Like the only reason the technocracy doesn't use primimum doped minguns to hunt wizards is expense and unyieldy nature of itm
 
Acolyte said:
Dude carries a gun, he should know how to use it and he should be using magic to hit better.

Thats not true, we know how effective they are from the miltia in battlegrounds.

Enchanted anti magic rounds would basically kill most things. Like the only reason the technocracy doesn't use primimum doped minguns to hunt wizards is expense and unyieldy nature of itm
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Throughout Dresden files, this happens a lot. But Harry is the worst kind of wizard stereotype, despite being a real relative giant to most people And being in better shape than most people, he loses fistfights, gun fights any fight That isn't him using a spell Relatively often, he's a nerd.

He's not a glass canon By any stretch of the imagination, he can take a hell of a beating and he uses his giant frame to do exactly that. Despite being in fights with people he should have reach strength and possibly even speed because he's in better shape than them a lot of the time he only wins brawls against people that are like actually just to small or too injured.

You would think the doom of damocles, and just generally, everything that goes on in his life, he would pick some methodology of combat.That isn't magic to get better at in the Going on 20 years of his life that have involved being assaulted in a variety of ways To get better at but no, he's the worst kind of wizard stereotype.
 
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DragonParadox said:
It's a cool idea, but it does not work for metaphysical (and somewhat spoiler-y) reasons.
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Fair enough. I was thinking they might fit because for the most part they're strictly less powerful than the spheres and fit remarkably well as an alien magical paradigm with the way they're tied to individual themes, like someone blended up the familiar elements of magic and spat them back out.

Seemed more interesting in a few ways than exclusively using clones of the existing sorcery paths. Power wise we can make it work either way.
 
Acolyte said:
Dude carries a gun, he should know how to use it and he should be using magic to hit better.
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He carries a pistol as a civilian. As a backup weapon.
He has no military training, nor is he a gun nut who spends hours and thousands of dollars a year at a gun range.
Firearms 1 at best.

Now roll Dex 3 + Firearms 1.
The 6 dice the QM gave him to shoot with was generous. He has never made a shot that Im aware of outside of close range, in that general 20 feet range.

Actual professional LEOs and soldiers routinely whiff this kinda shot under this kind of stress.



Magic to hit better, such as what?
He doesnt use Life Sphere for body buffs, offensive uses of Mind are deprecated in the White Council as a whole because of the potential for abuse, and he has never used Time or Entropy as far as Im aware.

Besides, if he wanted to hit better, he is a wizard with a blasting rod and a fondness for Forces. He has firestormed an entire vampire estate. Harry does not lack for offensive options, and if he wanted more, he would invest that effort into more magic, which buffs his entire skillset, instead of firearms which are a backup.

He just doesnt specialize in sniping discrete targets; he's more of a "fuck over everybody in that entire grid square".
Its something thats repeatedly emphasized in every combat scene where he's compared to other wizards; he has tons of power, but he lacks precision and control.

That comes with experience and practice.
Acolyte said:
ts not true, we know how effective they are from the miltia in battlegrounds.

Enchanted anti magic rounds would basically kill most things. Like the only reason the technocracy doesn't use primimum doped minguns to hunt wizards is expense and unyieldy nature of itm
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The militia in Battle Grounds got to shoot Fomor forces while the Fae and the svartalfar and others were focusing the tank and pulling aggro for them. If the Fomor ever got to focus on them, they'd have been dead. Just the flying assassin-beasts would have gone through all of them like shit through a goose.


The Technocracy is a global nationstate with millions of members and an industrialized paradigm of magic.
And even the Technocracy often used firearms as a focus to convey other effects.
This is not the Technocracy.
 
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Degorium said:
You would think the doom of damocles, and just generally, everything that goes on in his life, he would pick some methodology of combat.That isn't magic to get better at in the Going on 20 years of his life that have involved being assaulted in a variety of ways To get better at but no, he's the worst kind of wizard stereotype.
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As a sixteen year old, Harry blew up a gas station and nuked He Who Walks Behind in the process.

In Fool Moon, he blasted the loup garou through multiple buildings and across a city block with one spell.
He then burned down Bianca's entire estate with a single spell in the middle of Grave Peril.
Then he came back and did it again at the end of the book. And that was five years ago.

Dude does not lack firepower.
There is a reason he had his rep even as a baby wizard; he is monstrously strong and still growing.
What he lacks is experience and control, and that isnt something most people are born with, or can just hurry.

Compare his fire spell to the efficiency of one thrown by someone like Luccio, which is much more effective while using a fraction of the power.

He could conceivably kill everyone here, if he dug deep.
But you dont cast Erase Grid Square when you are inside the area of effect, unless you dont care about collateral.
And blowing up Edinburgh would be a mission fail.
 
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uju32 said:
As a sixteen year old, Harry blew up a gas station and nuked He Who Walks Behind in the process.

In Fool Moon, he blasted the loup garou through multiple buildings and across a city block with one spell.
He then burned down Bianca's entire estate with a single spell in the middle of Grave Peril.
Then he came back and did it again at the end of the book. And that was five years ago.

Dude does not lack firepower.
There is a reason he had his rep even as a baby wizard; he is monstrously strong and still growing.
What he lacks is experience and control, and that isnt something most people are born with, or can just hurry.

Compare his fire spell to the efficiency of one thrown by someone like Luccio, which is much more effective while using a fraction of the power.

He could conceivably kill everyone here, if he dug deep.
But you dont cast Erase Grid Square when you are inside the area of effect, unless you dont care about collateral.
And blowing up Edinburgh would be a mission fail.
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Again, i'm not saying he's not a strong wizard.That is the opposite of what i'm saying. He is unfortunately literally A D&D. Wizard, though, if you get him in melee and you have any level of skill, you will beat him in a fight. One because he can't kill humans with magic two because he's Actually terrible in a fistfight, despite being a giant.

Despite running up against humans up time and time again and needing to use spells that are really small. So he doesn't actually kill them. He has never invested any level of time in any combat skill, despite constantly involving himself in large scale combat that might involve humans and being a private investigator A profession known to sometimes have conflict He is still terrible At shooting and fistfighting, he got a sword when he became a warden, and he is still not particularly availed of it.

Again, I'm not saying he's not a strong wizard. It's the opposite of what i'm saying he just epitomizes the most unfortunate wizard stereotype imaginable, despite having the body type and the lifestyle that would almost thoroughly necessitate not being that way.
 
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uju32 said:
The militia in Battle Grounds got to shoot Fomor forces while the Fae and the svartalfar and others were focusing the tank and pulling aggro for them. If the Fomor ever got to focus on them, they'd have been dead. Just the flying assassin-beasts would have gone through all of them like shit through a goose
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I doubt it, like most supernaturals are just slightly superhuman things with tricks.

If the US army battalion for example had knowldge of what they were facing and at most a week to prepare they would have single handedly won battlground by themselves.
 
uju32 said:
There is a reason he had his rep even as a baby wizard; he is monstrously strong and still growing.
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Also because he's a thaumaturgist. Harry is good at moving a lot of energy in a hurry and wide area associative magic. All wizards use it for some things, but he's got a real gift for it.

Harry typically uses it for his detective work, but it doesn't take a huge leap in logic to put two and two together and realize his build is perfect for large scale ritual magic. You can see hints of it in how easily he grasped the foundations of the Darkhallow and his confidence in recreating it himself despite not being a necromancer with lifetimes of practice. Or how Little Chicago is such an effective bit of thaumaturgy that Butcher straight up says people would think he was building a Bond villain super weapon if he lent it to Demonreach.

In a few centuries as he grows into his skill set Harry could easily become the sort of monster that gets up to almost painfully stereotypical wizard bullshit. The type who can point a leyline at you like a gun without risking blowing himself up. That is the guy everyone wants to recruit, and is so twitchy about hanging out with the shady supernatural powers you don't want getting easy access to the big boy rituals.

If he stops being a meathead sometime in the next few decades anyway. :V
 
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