Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[DragonParadox]

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Is this entity dead? Or just dying?
CAN it be healed? Does it WANT to be?
Do remember that we have Sophia right here, and Sophia has Howl of Healing; if it can be healed or stabilized, we can likely do it. Thats an OOC determination on your part; Molly can burn a Crown question using the scene as a focus to determine this IC.


What can we see?
We still have All Things Betray (-3DC)active to stack with BSM(-1DC) and Shintai(-1DC) buffs to our Perception rolls, and we can probably burn Essence on an Occult Excellency if its necessary.

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It does not feel undead to Molly, Molly feels like the best word to use is dying.

Divine power is pouring into the land in a wild and unsustainable manner that feels intentional in the way a traincrash is, i.e. someone built the train and the tracks, but this was not the desired outcome. It looks like a process that can be stopped if you could get consent, that the god can stop themselves from doing even. Trouble is the god appears to be controlled to feed himself to a vampire so she would have to argue him out of that.

 

[DragonParadox]

Some more potions. @DragonParadox are these okay?

Spoiler: ●●●●● Mana Potion

A Potion by many names Pneumatic Channel Opener, Ki Foundation Pill, Electrolyte Ionizer this Alchemical concoction widens the vital channels of the sorcerer's lifeforce to the world and in certain circumstances to themselves mind, body and even soul. This potion facilitates the cultivation of Mana stores and uses within a taker. In this it puts the sorcerer in a state to shape themselves to hold or hone their energy of choice by making Willpower difficulty 9 Rolls every 2 hours that state lasts by accumulating Three successes the sorcerer acquires a dot of the Mana Background each dot requires an additional 3 successes (1=3, 2=6, 3=9…) or the first merit point of one of the merits Force of Spirit, Strength of Psyche or Flow of Ki none of which are transferable these points cost 3 successes each (1=3, 2=3, 3=3...). A successful brew lasts 4 hours and has a difficulty of 9 additional successes can be allocated to duration 1 success per 2 hours or difficulty -1 per 2 successes.

Rationale: This is largely experimental, kind of based on M20 Sorcerer Quint manipulation being able to grant physical merits through the manipulation of energy native to that body. Though it also come from the fact there is to the best of my knowledge no way to gain the initial Mana background in play even though the merit itself mentions ingesting rare substances or engaging in strenuous rituals. Though I do think it aligns well with the wheel house of alchemy at very least according to the flavor.

Spoiler: ●●● Fortifying Ink

from the blessings of Acat to the Mayans and the Woad of the Gauls to the To Moko of Maori the world over there are legends of tattooed or painted warriors taking blows that would lay low a man in full plate and continuing to fight. This recipe is in keeping with that tradition. Fortifying ink can be used in two ways: paint or tattoo. When used as body paint it lasts until the painted person sleeps, has fought a battle or it is washed away ( heavy rainfall, bathing, being thrown into a body of water) no clothing can be worn over it as they would rub it away. When used as a tattoo the effects last considerably longer but are not as powerful and can be detected with a difficulty 7 Awareness roll or automatically with sensory magics such as Auspex, Prime Sight or Mana detection though they can be reactivated without needing to redo them, both grant the bearer the ability to soak lethal and aggravated damage if they could not before with their stamina at difficulty 8 as well as 1 dice of soak on a successful mix. As body paint success after the first are divided between difficulty to soak lethal, difficulty to soak aggravated and soak dice. Neither difficulty can be lower by more than three and soak dice can only go up 2 (3 total). As a Tattoo successes past the first are divided between difficulty of lethal and Aggravated Soak neither of which can be lowered by more than 2 and Duration (1 = 2 Weeks, 2 = 1 Months, 3 = 3 Months, 4 = 5 Months, 5 = 1 Year) how long it takes before the magic fades and soak dice which can only go up 1 (2 total). They can be revitalized by either brewing another batch of fortifying ink and painting over the tattoo and leaving the ink for 3 day without it being rubbed or washed away or 5 Mana being infused into the tattoo ala the mana background or a ritual of the Mana Manipulation Path or a form magical energy being splashed or infused into the tattoo (Quintessence, Vitae, Pathos, Essence, Gnosis, Faith) though the effects of those non-regulated infusions may have deleterious or strange effects on the bearer.

Rationale: As a base difficulty of seven recipe a maxed out sorcerer with 10 dice could expect 3 to 4 successes on a roll which when applied to the Woad can translate to difficulty 7 lethal and aggravated soak and 2 soak dice (3) or a difficulty 6 lethal and difficulty 7 aggravated soak and 2 soak dice (4) even with a legendary roll of five or more successes it is about equal to a -1 difficulty to soak lethal and agg and wearing a well crafted chest plate. Humans when they wear armor soak at base difficulty anyway. The tattoos are a bit different and the trade off is largely story based. Bearing obviously magical tattoos in situations can make people question your intentions and generally are not inconspicuous. They do provide a strong benefit for a long period of time but are on the level of a permanent leather duster with slightly worse soaking difficulty not to mention there are more ways to divide successes. In the end I think this right where it belongs it makes a human sorcerer super-humanly capable of taking an Ass whooping.
●●● You can make substances that enhance their target to superhuman levels or create materials that exceed normal limitations (supernaturally strong alloys, etc.). Some of these substances can temporarily invest their imbiber with some low-level psychic ability for a limited period of time (no more than one hour or so).

Spoiler: ●●●●● Dragons Breath

Potion Quality	Sorcerer use (Stamina + Extras)
Duration 1 turn per 2 successes	Charge (Stamina + Occult)(Difficulty 6)
Intensity (Only Soak Difficulty not Damage)(Fire & Poison only)	Allocate successes between Damage and Range
Usage 1 Extra Use per scene per 2 successes	Fire (Dexterity + Melee)(Difficulty 7) (See. Hellfire targeting Sorcerer Revised pg.80)

Though it has many names Ddraig's Roar, Breath of Qīnglóng and many more the trend remains the same where there are dragons and alchemist no matter their stripe, there are alchemist that idolize or want to copy dragons. This potion grants the sorcerer the ability to fire a breath weapon like a dragon for a story. By taking a deep breath and catalyzing the reaction the Sorcerer makes a reflexive Stamina + Occult roll at difficulty 6 to ready their breath weapon. The sorcerer can allocate successes of that roll between Range (10 Meters per success this assumes cone if the sorcerer fires a more concentrated stream it is 20 meters per success but can only hit a single target) and Damage for each success allocated to damage, two dice of Lethal damage is done. Hitting a target with a breath weapon blast requires a successful Dexterity + Melee roll (Difficulty 7).

Any target that can soak the appropriate type of attack can try to soak the sorcerer's "breath weapon." The sorcerer can employ this attack up to their Stamina times per Scene. The range of those attacks depends upon the nature of that assault; a "pinpointed" lightning strike generally reaches further than a localized cloud of gas. The typing of the potion is decided on brewing. Fire,Water,Lightning,Ice,Poison/Acid. Successes on this potion are divided between additional usage in a scene two successes per additional usage per scene (2 = Stamina + 1, 4 = Stamina + 2..) and Intensity at 1 success per level ( Fire's Heat Campfire (Difficulty 5 Soak) to Chemical (Difficulty 9 soak) ,Toxin Rating 2 (Difficulty 7 Soak) to Toxin Rating Six (Difficulty 9 soak) and finally Duration (how long the flames engulf, the poison lingers, the lightning courses) with one turn per 2 successes allocated. For details about toxins, electricity, fire, and other assaults, see "Environmental Hazards" in Mage 20, pp. 435-444.

Rationale:This is extremely long it was just supposed to be a mix of a potion that gives a supernatural ability for a story (M20 Sorcerer Pg.20 last recipe a powder that gives every other turn bashing and lethal regeneration) and the concept of dragon breath which could be a Force 3 Prime 2 or Matter 3 Prime 2 Effect (Additional Abilities, M20 How do you do that pg 19). Though like like every other weapon it has to have a targeting mechanism and a way to decide how much damage and to who so it essentially acts like a half cast spell with quality .

Spoiler: ●●●●● Scalar Form Elixir (Revised)

or Sizemorphic Medium: A concoction that allows a sorcerer to grow or shrink in size at will for a day. The sorcerer makes a reflexive willpower roll and the number of successes must match or exceed the level of growth or shrink rating or spend a willpower and grow or reduce to the desired size this can only be done once per turn. Successes are divided between the sizes that the sorcerer is capable of growing to and shrinking to as well as how long.

● one turn
●● three turns
●●● one scene

● Big: Slightly larger than a normal human the character with this gains one extra bruised level of health and one Soak.
●● Huge: A character with this modification is roughly twice the average person, adding +1 to strength and 2 extra bruised levels and 1 Soak. Gain +1 to Dexterity for movement purposes only.
●●● Massive: A character with this modification is roughly four times the average person and around 2.5 to 3 meters tall, gaining +2 Strength 3 Extra bruised levels and 2 Soak. The size of a massive character is both an advantage and a disadvantage - they gain +50% to lifting capacity and +2 to Dexterity for movement, but are much more obvious taking - 1 difficulty to be hit.
●●●● Humongous: A character with this modification is eight times the mass and twice the height of an average person, gaining +3 Strength, and 4 Extra bruised levels and 2 Soak, as well as +3 Dexterity for movement purposes. Furthermore, their size doubles their lifting capacity and taking - 2 difficulty to be hit.


● Small: Roughly the size of a prepubescent child. Increases the difficulty to hit the Drinker by one.
●● Dwarven: A character with this is about roughly half as tall/wide/thick as an average person, reducing Strength and Stamina by 1. Dexterity is also reduced by 1 for movement purposes only. Characters which are small are more vulnerable to damage but harder to hit, losing 1 bruised from their Health Level track but increasing the difficulty to hit them by 1 and lowering their stealth difficulties by 1.
●●● Tiny : A Tiny character is roughly 1/4th normal dimensions, reducing Strength and Stamina by 2. Characters which are tiny are more vulnerable to damage but harder to hit, losing 1 bruised and 1 hurt, and 1 Mauled Health Level from their track but increasing the difficulty to hit them by 2 and lower their stealth difficulties by 2. Finally, Tiny characters are slower, losing 3 dexterity to all movement.
●●●● Miniscule: A miniscule character is an 1/8th their normal dimensions, reducing Strength and Stamina by 3. Miniscule characters can suffer fatal injury from mere annoyances to normal humans, reducing their HL track by 1 Bruised, 1 Hurt , 1 injured, and 1 Wounded Health Level but they increase the difficulty to hit them by 3 and lower their stealth difficulties by 3 .Miniscule characters lose 4 dexterity for the purposes of movement.

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It's pretty late for me, I'll look these over in the morning, promise.

 

[uju32]

Well, that's scary... Let's bring them to us. We can't kill them if they surrender. More samples, maybe they're not even red vampires in the usual sense.

Honestly, Shintai obviously didn't help much except for the difficulty drop of throws. But now we can suppress everyone with our mega form and easily intimidate everyone around. I hope our allies aren't too cold...

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Well good thing we didn't waste a Shinkai activation on that.

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Shintai is why we were rolling 13 dice at DC4.
Otherwise we would have been rolling 11 dice at DC5.

Oh I remeber, this god was destroyed and from his body corn and other food sources were created , while from his body a new god was birthed. By feeding parts of his body to lesser vampires he is making them as part of nature like the plants that he made when he died. We could probably control the ritual and ressurect him if we have the correct abilities.

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Hmm?

Mallko was known as the first son of the sun god (Wiracocha or Inti) in Vichama's myth. This established Mallko as the brother of Vichama and half-brother of Pachakamaq and Kon. When Pachacámac tears his body to pieces to create food, the sun god creates another new child from the remains of Mallko's navel and umbilical cord. This new child would be known as Vichama. In other representations, Mallko was the Inca god of law.

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Hmm.
Is this sort of thing a natural part of his existence/cycle?

EDIT
Ninja'd by QM

 

[BronzeTongue]

QUESTION
Is this entity dead? Or just dying?
CAN it be healed? Does it WANT to be?
Do remember that we have Sophia right here, and Sophia has Howl of Healing; if it can be healed or stabilized, we can likely do it. Thats an OOC determination on your part; Molly can burn a Crown question using the scene as a focus to determine this IC.

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure the implication here is that the god has taken a bit more damage than can be readily measured by conventional health track boxes.

He's a god that's been slowly devoured for ages and not allowed to finish dying. It seems likely that regular healing isn't going to cut it. Even if we could stabilize him I think recovery of any type would be complicated if it could happen at all.

Plus aren't you interested in seeing what would happen if a dying god is resurrected with primordial hell powers? Just think of all the mad science benefits, and the look on the red King's face if he gets a report that an Incan god got loose and acquired helltech cyberpunk upgrades for round two.

Especially this guy, who's the first born son of the Incan sun god and brother to the guy who they attribute the act of inventing humans.

Not the kind of person you want to hear was reborn under the auspices of a green sun and is looking to balance the scales.

 

[ImBuda]

Hmm?

Hmm.
Is this sort of thing a natural part of his existence/cycle?

EDIT
Ninja'd by QM

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Im pretty sure that the original objective was to create a new god from the Lord of the outer night, by feeding him the god using his myth as a basis

 

[uju32]

It does not feel undead to Molly, Molly feels like the best word to use is dying.

Divine power is pouring into the land in a wild and unsustainable manner that feels intentional in the way a traincrash is, i.e. someone built the train and the tracks, but this was not the desired outcome. It looks like a process that can be stopped if you could get consent, that the god can stop themselves from doing even. Trouble is the god appears to be controlled to feed himself to a vampire so she would have to argue him out of that.

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Ah. Thank you.

If he's controlled, then its probably time for Sophia to shine again.
Howl of Healing + Break The Bonds comes into play if there is a magical construct in play, while Molly + Excellency should suffice if its just a change your mind thing.

No reason not to try both.
=====

Pretty sure the implication here is that the god has taken a bit more damage than can be readily measured by conventional health track boxes.

He's a god that's been slowly devoured for ages and not allowed to finish dying. It seems likely that regular healing isn't going to cut it. Even if we could stabilize him I think recovery of any type would be complicated if it could happen at all.

Plus aren't you interested in seeing what would happen if a dying god is resurrected with primordial hell powers? Just think of all the mad science benefits, and the look on the red King's face if he gets a report that an Incan god got loose and acquired helltech cyberpunk upgrades for round two.

Especially this guy, who's the first born son of the Incan sun god and brother to the guy who they attribute the act of inventing humans.

Not the kind of person you want to hear was reborn under the auspices of a green sun and is looking to balance the scales.

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Latest word of QM suggests otherwise

Healing him wont exactly return him to factory spec, but it should stabilize him.
This appears to be a social problem, not a mechanical one; if we convince him to stop pouring his lifesblood out on the earth, he should recover on his own, with some care. Eventually.

I have concerns about trying to stuff what is considered a god, with the metaphysical mass of one, into Molly's soul-kingdom.
It seems to fall into the "Dont eat a power source larger than your head" clause of sorcery
I wouldnt mind watching it happen, or giving the guy upgrades; the Arcane Forge exists after all.

But taking him into Sanctuary seems like a stretch.
Hosting him at Last Station is more....survivable, I think.

Im pretty sure that the original objective was to create a new god from the Lord of the outer night, by feeding him the god using his myth as a basis

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New god?
Unlikely; the Red King isnt a god, and does not brook rivals. And Dresdenverse mechanics state that Halloween is the only time that gods, true immortals, are supposed to be vulnerable to that kind of hack.

Empowering a new Lord of Outer Night would seem to be a more likely, more achievable goal.

But that would mean either the guy we just killed was a new Lord chosen to replace the one that Morgan killed last yar, or that the Lords of Outer Night periodically sup on godjuice to keep their power levels.
Or both.

Im guessing the dead guy was only supposed to take a bite and save the rest.
Puff puff pass, only godsmoke not cannabis.
The Black Feast, writ small.

 

[Yog]

But taking him into Sanctuary seems like a stretch.

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Why? It seems like the most logical solution. It is well within the scale of Primordial might to resurrect a god, and by having the manner of death be "eaten by vampires" it should heal all the damage done by being eaten by vampires. Which is basically most of it.

I am not saying "keep it there", but having it pass through the Wheel seems like a good solution. Yes, there's a bit of danger to it resurrecting and acting hostile, but we are at our strongest there - full always-on shintai, Lord of the Land, etc.

So, take it there, heal it, then have it help against Red Court.

 

[BoredMan]

Trouble is the god appears to be controlled to feed himself to a vampire so she would have to argue him out of that.

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Break The Bonds via Sophia might be of some use here in your plans @Yog @BronzeTongue.

 

[Sesparra]

[x] Yog

[x] BronzeTongue

Is there a mechanical difference between these two that I'm just being too dumb to see?

Side note edit: I'm honestly waiting for Molly to accidentally summon some angel to mass do to sheer worldwarping weight some point soon…

 

[uju32]

I don't think we can heal all the stuff they did to this guy. The wheel is the only thing I'd bet on.

Assuming that works I don't think we can predict what would happen, other than the red court being very upset. Killing a pantheon probably took a lot of work and the idea of a vengeful god of law coming back after a dip in hell to freshen up is pretty distressing.

I mean, that straight up sounds like it belongs in a the oldest school of mythology. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll come back with upgrades for god reasons.

[X] Try to keep the dying god from completely feeding itself to vampires
-[X] Excellency, FPoR, WHWH, BSM, Shintai modifier
-[X] [Stunt]: Drawing herself up, the sky around their stretch of forest changed. An iron wind blocking out the wider world as a false dawn of lightning glimmered in the distance.
—[X] "Do you truly wish for this death to be the end? The slayers of your kin live in the ruins of your home, wearing your faces as masks and dealing falsely with your followers. Even now they lie, cheat, and steal with the aim of snuffing out the wisdom in mortal eyes" Molly gestured to the wizards watching them speak.
—[X] "Worse still; they conspire with the enemy of all, foolishly thinking they can manipulate the Outside to their advantage." As she continues Molly's voice takes on gripping energy, the hush of an oncoming storm. "In my domain death is but the start of a new life. I cannot promise success, but I can offer a chance"
—[X] "A new age nears, will you join us in it?"

Molly: *Diabolic violin solo intensifies*

The Wizards: "Mark that down in the Yama Queen column"

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I prefer this to Yog's version.
The stunt is better, and it doesnt demand servitude, or that we take them to Sanctuary.
Molly's claimed domain(s)extend beyond Sanctuary, after all.

That said, I would suggest that you have Sophia act as well.
She has the Gifts Howl of Healing and Break The Bonds; if there's compulsion magic in play, Break The Bonds will handle it.
And Howl of Healing should help with stabilizing him.

Why? It seems like the most logical solution. It is well within the scale of Primordial might to resurrect a god, and by having the manner of death be "eaten by vampires" it should heal all the damage done by being eaten by vampires. Which is basically most of it.

I am not saying "keep it there", but having it pass through the Wheel seems like a good solution. Yes, there's a bit of danger to it resurrecting and acting hostile, but we are at our strongest there - full always-on shintai, Lord of the Land, etc.

So, take it there, heal it, then have it help against Red Court.

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Its a god. A weakened, dying god, but still a god. I have doubts about the size of the things that Molly can or should stuff into her soul-Hell comfortably and safely. Or whether he'd even fit in our Hell's cycle, which is typically sized for less metaphysically massive entities.

Furthermore, given how long he's been in the hands of the Red Court, and how much of his blood they have lying around, there's a non-zero chance that his location can be tracked.
And I'd rather keep Sanctuary unknown to our opps as long as we can.

Last Station.
Arcane Forge, even; both are destinations we have control over. Both are places that a spirit can draw strength to heal.
The QM seems to be suggesting that we can convince him not to kill himself.

Lets do that.Taking him to Sanctuary introduces complications

 

[Goldfish]

Puff puff pass, only godsmoke not cannabis.
The Black Feast, writ small.

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Stoner Rampire #1: "This is some good stuff, dude."

Stoner Rampire #2: "Then don't bogart the godjuice. Pass it down!"

 

[BronzeTongue]

Latest word of QM suggests otherwise

Healing him wont exactly return him to factory spec, but it should stabilize him.
This appears to be a social problem, not a mechanical one; if we convince him to stop pouring his lifesblood out on the earth, he should recover on his own, with some care. Eventually.

I have concerns about trying to stuff what is considered a god, with the metaphysical mass of one, into Molly's soul-kingdom.
It seems to fall into the "Dont eat a power source larger than your head" clause of sorcery
I wouldnt mind watching it happen, or giving the guy upgrades; the Arcane Forge exists after all.

But taking him into Sanctuary seems like a stretch.
Hosting him at Last Station is more....survivable, I think

Click to shrink...

Molly is a demon planet, I don't think a nearly dead god is too big of an energy field for us to bring to the FCF. Just because trying to trap a fallen Angel is a bad idea doesn't mean Molly isn't a ridiculously huge spirit being for this purpose.

I think that we can stabilize the god, but he himself basically said that he's been held at the brink of death for a long time. I don't think this sort of thing really fits the scope of a combat healing power meant to handle.

Better to put him through the wheel so he's not stuck at 99.9% dead.

 

[Yog]

Its a god. A weakened, dying god, but still a god. I have doubts about the size of the things that Molly can or should stuff into her soul-Hell comfortably and safely. Or whether he'd even fit in our Hell's cycle, which is typically sized for less metaphysically massive entities.

Furthermore, given how long he's been in the hands of the Red Court, and how much of his blood they have lying around, there's a non-zero chance that his location can be tracked.
And I'd rather keep Sanctuary unknown to our opps as long as we can.

Last Station.
Arcane Forge, even; both are destinations we have control over. Both are places that a spirit can draw strength to heal.
The QM seems to be suggesting that we can convince him not to kill himself.

Lets do that.Taking him to Sanctuary introduces complications

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1) I have zero doubts that we can handle a god. Note that we can handle a Fallen Angel. Yes, it would be painful, agonizing even, but Uriel directly confirmed that it could be done and cautioned us against doing so. If we go from Exalted end, Autochtonia had numerous gods without issue.

2) The wheel should be able to handle a god. At least I don't see why it wouldn't.

3) We already have red court vampires in our court, if I recall correctly. Or at least half reds?

4) While we could probably heal it without resorting to the Wheel, I believe it would take much more effort to do so. It is suffering from at least a thousand years of continued damage. The Wheel restores health. Healing it conventionally would be a titanic undertaking.

 

[Azais]

I prefer this to Yog's version.
The stunt is better, and it doesnt demand servitude, or that we take them to Sanctuary.
Molly's claimed domain(s)extend beyond Sanctuary, after all.

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But uju, weren't you saying several times about how gods of this type were especially horrible and that they were not trustworthy, even against the Reds? Wouldn't it be better to have a magical promise of alliance to cure this fear of yours?

Otherwise I must question your previous insistence.

[X] Yog

 

[DragonParadox]

Good night guys.

 

[Yog]

[X] Try to keep the dying god from completely feeding itself to vampires
-[X] Excellency, FPoR, WHWH, BSM, Shintai modifier
-[X] [Stunt]: Drawing herself up, the sky around their stretch of forest changed. An iron wind blocking out the wider world as a false dawn of lightning glimmered in the distance.
—[X] "Do you truly wish for this death to be the end? The slayers of your kin live in the ruins of your home, wearing your faces as masks and dealing falsely with your followers. Even now they lie, cheat, and steal with the aim of snuffing out the wisdom in mortal eyes" Molly gestured to the wizards watching them speak.
—[X] "Worse still; they conspire with the enemy of all, foolishly thinking they can manipulate the Outside to their advantage." As she continues Molly's voice takes on gripping energy, the hush of an oncoming storm. "In my domain death is but the start of a new life. I cannot promise success, but I can offer a chance"
—[X] "A new age nears, will you join us in it?"

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Why not let vampires finish (as long as they swear allegiance to us) within Sanctuary? That would make the cause of death "fed on by rhampires" which is very good for the purpose of restoring it.

Break The Bonds via Sophia might be of some use here in your plans @Yog @BronzeTongue.

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Added to the plan "-[] Break the Bonds of the god to free it from being controlled". Though my version actually allows vampires to finish feeding, just inside Sanctuary.

I prefer this to Yog's version.
The stunt is better, and it doesnt demand servitude, or that we take them to Sanctuary.

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I do not demand servitude from the god. From vampires, yes. From the god? No. Alliance, precise terms to be negotiated later. That's not making them subordinate to us. I could even soften it - frankly, I would much prefer the offer to be unconditional, but I expected you first of all to object to this, and push to make it offer us service. Because that's what you and others did when we dealt with Raksha whose Grace was held by Demonreach.

Speaking of - would people object if I change my offer to be unconditional, and we discuss matters of debt later?

 

[Azais]

Its a god. A weakened, dying god, but still a god. I have doubts about the size of the things that Molly can or should stuff into her soul-Hell comfortably and safely. Or whether he'd even fit in our Hell's cycle, which is typically sized for less metaphysically massive entities.

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We are a planet, metaphysically and literally, or rather, one of our bodies is a planet while we are a primordial nascent, a self-contained reality.

I do not think that a god, of a small portion of a planet, weakened by ages of bloodletting is too heavy for our stomachs, we have already devoured Iktu as well as everything else and he was also an ancient god.

Furthermore, given how long he's been in the hands of the Red Court, and how much of his blood they have lying around, there's a non-zero chance that his location can be tracked.
And I'd rather keep Sanctuary unknown to our opps as long as we can.

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The White Concil, with his many spies inside, know it. The horse already escape.

 

[BronzeTongue]

I prefer this to Yog's version.
The stunt is better, and it doesnt demand servitude, or that we take them to Sanctuary.
Molly's claimed domain(s)extend beyond Sanctuary, after all.

That said, I would suggest that you have Sophia act as well.
She has the Gifts Howl of Healing and Break The Bonds; if there's compulsion magic in play, Break The Bonds will handle it.
And Howl of Healing should help with stabilizing him

Click to shrink...

The explicit point of that vote is to take him to sanctuary, I just didn't want to demand servitude immediately. I'll add break the bonds, but I don't think the healing gift makes sense here.

[X] Try to keep the dying god from completely feeding itself to vampires
-[X] Excellency, FPoR, WHWH, BSM, Shintai modifier
-[X] Have Sophia use break the bonds.
-[X] [Stunt]: Drawing herself up, the sky around their stretch of forest changed. An iron wind blocking out the wider world as a false dawn of lightning glimmered in the distance.
—[X] "Do you truly wish for this death to be the end? The slayers of your kin live in the ruins of your home, wearing your faces as masks and dealing falsely with your followers. Even now they lie, cheat, and steal with the aim of snuffing out the wisdom in mortal eyes" Molly gestured to the wizards watching them speak.
—[X] "Worse still; they conspire with the enemy of all, foolishly thinking they can manipulate the Outside to their advantage." As she continues Molly's voice takes on gripping energy, the hush of an oncoming storm. "In my domain death is but the start of a new life. I cannot promise success, but I can offer a chance"
—[X] "A new age nears, will you join us in it?"

But uju, weren't you saying several times about how gods of this type were especially horrible and that they were not trustworthy, even against the Reds? Wouldn't it be better to have a magical promise of alliance to cure this fear of yours?

Otherwise I must question your previous insistence.

[X] Yog

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The guy has been enslaved for ages, he might not come on board if he thinks he'll be enslaved by the friendly demon queen too.

I'm not planning on restoring him for free, but generally I think even if you want to be entirely cynical about it getting people to want to work with you is better than binding them to it.

Look at Tiffany; if we'd made her promise to work with us she'd probably be scheming to get away right now.

Why not let vampires finish (as long as they swear allegiance to us) within Sanctuary? That would make the cause of death "fed on by rhampires" which is very good for the purpose of restoring it

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We can't bring that many vamps with us at once, and this has some ritual elements that I'm not sure will interact well with the wheel.

What happens if he's spiritually destroyed by this in some manner?

 

[Iron Roby]

[X] Yog

@uju32

Spoiler: Out of topic reply

All societies impose requirements on their members of some form of contribution to the common good, both for day to day functioning, and in the face of existential threat.

I find this argument entirely too similar to the proposition that taxation is theft.

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Taxes can't be theft, because "theft" is always illegal, while taxes are legal by definition. Slavery isn't an inherently illegal institution though - it has been legal most of history. Modern forced prison labor is slavery, that's why US constitutional amendment abolishing slavery has the exception written into it for it.

Something can be an imposed requirement (supposedly) for the greater good of the society and slavery at the same time. Those aren't contractions. The argument isn't that conscription can't ever be necessary, it's that we shouldn't lie to ourselves about its moral cost.

During conscription, you no longer control where you live or go, you are forced to perform what is often hard physical labor, and your life is potentially considered expendable for accomplishing objectives. You didn't consent to any of that, you will be harshly punished if you try to escape, and you weren't convicted of any crime to "deserve it" as punishment. If such a state is not "slavery", then the word has no meaning.

The only things missing from the classical definition of slavery is that it's temporary and you can't be resold. But like prison slavery shows, those are not hard requirements.

 

[Azais]

Why not let vampires finish (as long as they swear allegiance to us) within Sanctuary? That would make the cause of death "fed on by rhampires" which is very good for the purpose of restoring it.

Added to the plan "-[] Break the Bonds of the god to free it from being controlled". Though my version actually allows vampires to finish feeding, just inside Sanctuary.

I do not demand servitude from the god. From vampires, yes. From the god? No. Alliance, precise terms to be negotiated later. That's not making them subordinate to us. I could even soften it - frankly, I would much prefer the offer to be unconditional, but I expected you first of all to object to this, and push to make it offer us service. Because that's what you and others did when we dealt with Raksha whose Grace was held by Demonreach.

Speaking of - would people object if I change my offer to be unconditional, and we discuss matters of debt later?

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Yes, I object. I'll take Uju's work and say it here, we don't know much about him and while he may not be an evil god, he was still overthrown thousands of years ago, before the White God made his decree. He needs someone who can teach him what is and isn't allowed to do in this Age.

This would be a grand way to made a offer to he after the Red Court is destroyed as he would be a great way to project power in South America and lessen the chaos of the power vacuum a bit, and we could make him an offer to be our subordinate. We are a Divine Queen but without subordinate gods and he was once a member of a pantheon, so it shouldn't be a big change.

 

[uju32]

Molly is a demon planet, I don't think a nearly dead god is too big of an energy field for us to bring to the FCF. Just because trying to trap a fallen Angel is a bad idea doesn't mean Molly isn't a ridiculously huge spirit being for this purpose.

I think that we can stabilize the god, but he himself basically said that he's been held at the brink of death for a long time. I don't think this sort of thing really fits the scope of a combat healing power meant to handle.

Better to put him through the wheel so he's not stuck at 99.9% dead.

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We've received explicit warning about Coins.
We are under notice that it is possible for potential fuckery to go on.

He said, but whether thats actually true is unclear.
Im working off what the QM said up-page that we can get him to stop. We just need to convince him, and thats a social roll.
Once he's not dead or killing himself any longer, we can explore other options.
=====

1) I have zero doubts that we can handle a god. Note that we can handle a Fallen Angel. Yes, it would be painful, agonizing even, but Uriel directly confirmed that it could be done and cautioned us against doing so. If we go from Exalted end, Autochtonia had numerous gods without issue.

2) The wheel should be able to handle a god. At least I don't see why it wouldn't.

3) We already have red court vampires in our court, if I recall correctly. Or at least half reds?

4) While we could probably heal it without resorting to the Wheel, I believe it would take much more effort to do so. It is suffering from at least a thousand years of continued damage. The Wheel restores health. Healing it conventionally would be a titanic undertaking.

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1&2) I dont know if it can, and I dont really want to YOLO our magical biology on something that comes from outside the system. This kind of thing has historically gone badly in Exalted.
We are not Creation.

3) We have prisoners we are never letting out, some humans who used to be servitors, and I think some half-Reds
We dont have anyone there who we expect to let back out
This guy would be, by definition, going back out.

4)Historically in Exalted, testing the Wheel of Reincarnation outside its designed specs has gone badly.
The Neverborn BROKE the system in Creation.

There are all sorts of potential options open to try first, from Lash to other gods and spirits.
Dont just fucking dunk the guy into your soul as the first option. Thats crazy reckless.
====

But uju, weren't you saying several times about how gods of this type were especially horrible and that they were not trustworthy, even against the Reds? Wouldn't it be better to have a magical promise of alliance to cure this fear of yours?
Otherwise I must question your previous insistence.
[X] Yog

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I dont trust them.
Im willing to extend some charity, but Im hardly up for sharing secrets.

Demanding servitude increases the barrier of entry to getting someone to agree to something.
Its like asking someone for their bank account before giving them life-saving medication.

We are a planet, metaphysically and literally, or rather, one of our bodies is a planet while we are a primordial nascent, a self-contained reality.

I do not think that a god, of a small portion of a planet, weakened by ages of bloodletting is too heavy for our stomachs, we have already devoured Iktu as well as everything else and he was also an ancient god.

The White Concil, with his many spies inside, know it. The horse already escape.

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We are linked to a planet. We are not a planet.

Creation's Wheel broke under the weight of a bunch of Primordials becoming Neverborn.
We are not Creation. Sanctuary is not Creation, which was custom-built by a bunch of Primordials working together.
I rather doubt we are rated for anything like the same stresses, and I think its an unnecessary risk to test this.


They know ABOUT Sanctuary.
They dont know WHERE Sanctuary is in the NeverNever.
Putting a dude with the magical equivalent of a LoJack tracker will tell them precisely where it is.

 

[BoredMan]

Speaking of - would people object if I change my offer to be unconditional, and we discuss matters of debt later?

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Pretty much what BronzeTongue is saying here especially this last part about Tiffany-

Spoiler: BronzeTongue

The guy has been enslaved for ages, he might not come on board if he thinks he'll be enslaved by the friendly demon queen too.

I'm not planning on restoring him for free, but generally I think even if you want to be entirely cynical about it getting people to want to work with you is better than binding them to it.

Look at Tiffany; if we'd made her promise to work with us she'd probably be scheming to get away right now.

Click to shrink...

Going from being enslaved to Reds to enslaved to Molly might not be something he's willing to do. I wouldn't be surprised if he has an intimacy against that exact thing after all these years he may just prefer death.

 

[Yog]

We can't bring that many vamps with us at once, and this has some ritual elements that I'm not sure will interact well with the wheel.

What happens if he's spiritually destroyed by this in some manner?

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Wait, how many vampires are there?

We are linked to a planet. We are not a planet.

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The planet is our body. This has been established in the text of the quest itself.

Creation's Wheel broke under the weight of a bunch of Primordials becoming Neverborn.

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1) Primordials are very much not gods. To compare them is akin to comparing a mortal and a celestial tier god at least.
2) I am fairly sure that the cycle of reincarnation itself kept functioning. Please provide citation about it breaking.

Putting a dude with the magical equivalent of a LoJack tracker will tell them precisely where it is.

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You are inventing stuff here. They might have some means of tracking him, maybe. We can't be sure right now. We have put multiple people with at least the same level of magical connections to our enemies into Sanctuary before, and are keeping some of them there even now.

Pretty much what BronzeTongue is saying here especially this last part about Tiffany-
Going from being enslaved to Reds to enslaved to Molly might not be something he's willing to do. I wouldn't be surprised if he has an intimacy against that exact thing after all these years he may just prefer death.

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Not enslaved, allied, I tried to distinguish the two. I offered it revenge, essentially.

 

[uju32]

Why not let vampires finish (as long as they swear allegiance to us) within Sanctuary? That would make the cause of death "fed on by rhampires" which is very good for the purpose of restoring it.

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There are entirely too many assumptions you are making about the magical biology of a god we literally just met, and how it would react under diverse circumstances.
Thats my two cents.

Im wishing we could have brought Lydia.

I do not demand servitude from the god. From vampires, yes. From the god? No. Alliance, precise terms to be negotiated later. That's not making them subordinate to us. I could even soften it - frankly, I would much prefer the offer to be unconditional, but I expected you first of all to object to this, and push to make it offer us service. Because that's what you and others did when we dealt with Raksha whose Grace was held by Demonreach.

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I misread it. My apologies.

However, even with the vampires, its a bad idea.
Gratitude binds harder than formal oaths. Especially since there is nothing that prevents them from lying, or changing their minds; Rampires could always lie, and these guys are undergoing changes back to mortal apparently.

Yes, I object. I'll take Uju's work and say it here, we don't know much about him and while he may not be an evil god, he was still overthrown thousands of years ago, before the White God made his decree. He needs someone who can teach him what is and isn't allowed to do in this Age.

This would be a grand way to made a offer to he after the Red Court is destroyed as he would be a great way to project power in South America and lessen the chaos of the power vacuum a bit, and we could make him an offer to be our subordinate. We are a Divine Queen but without subordinate gods and he was once a member of a pantheon, so it shouldn't be a big change.

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Note that we dont have a thing that can magically bind this god's loyalties anyway as far as I can tell.

Molly is not an Ex2 Eclipse Caste, and he is (apparently)not Fae.
He's not a CoD, and even if he was he's too massive for Demonic Primacy to work on him.
Even if we somehow pushed him through the Wheel without incident, that does not impose loyalty of any sort.

You earn loyalty as normal.

 

[BoredMan]

We are linked to a planet. We are not a planet.

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Hell no. On this your just being pedantic in a blatantly dishonest way.

It's been described more than once in story and out of story that the Planet is Molly and Molly is the Planet. This is not debatable.

No, no, no... you have always been a planet* dreaming wrapped in memories of ages past yourself containing multitudes.

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There are more quotes I could grab both from in and out of story.

Edit: I don't think pedantic is even the right word this is just you ignoring several bits of the Quest.