Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Huh not that I have any right now by why is the winning vote appealing to emotions? When we should be appealing to logic to a god of laws. We can probably cite traitorous rule breaking from the red court here. One they chose the manner of duel when we are the challenged, two they started the fight without even strictly attending, three they made it a 5v1, I'm sure there's more.
 
Huh not that I have any right now by why is the winning vote appealing to emotions? When we should be appealing to logic to a god of laws. We can probably cite traitorous rule breaking from the red court here. One they chose the manner of duel when we are the challenged, two they started the fight without even strictly attending, three they made it a 5v1, I'm sure there's more.
The vote is confounding me. Apparently this god is caged somehow.. somewhere nearby I guess? They said something about letting it loose so it's restrained right now. If that's the case and we "sweet talk" this thing why would the Reds then let it loose?

I'm not sure what people are expecting or why that's even an option to begin with. The Reds can just choose not to release him.
 
The vote is confounding me. Apparently this god is caged somehow.. somewhere nearby I guess? They said something about letting it loose so it's restrained right now. If that's the case and we "sweet talk" this thing why would the Reds then let it loose?

I'm not sure what people are expecting or why that's even an option to begin with. The Reds can just choose not to release him.
Yeah it's a pretty weird vote especially since the appeal is too emotion instead of logic like you know the rule breaking and hint we've been given by dp.
 
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 30, 2024 at 11:11 AM, finished with 95 posts and 11 votes.

  • [x] Speak openly to the dead god, if that is their play, accuse the Red Court of breaking the rules with guile and subtlety
    -[x] Etiquette excellency
    —[x] "what hold do these oath breakers and betrayers posses upon your mind 'Oh Mallko of Law? What chain of lies and blood have they bound you in that you would bend and ear to hear the pleas of the dark brood of dread Kukulan, those that butchered your family in the night like those most cowardly of foes?"
    [X]Plan Full Power
    -[X] Write-In: Invoke Shintai: 2m, 2wp
    -[X] Activate Intimidation Excellency again if necessary
    -[X]STUNT: "Your delusions of adequacy" you declare, burning additional Essence to release parts of your kingdom into reality "have stopped. Being. Funny." Between moments, the ground freezes over across two miles of jungle, with the crack of exploding branches following an abrupt temperature drop below zero, even as an arctic wind dashes saltwater spray across the clearing. You wipe your face with a mailed fist, even as your opponents pupils dilate to the size of marbles."Bored now. Time to end."
    [X] Make it look like you are breaking the rules in order to goad the rhampires into releasing their prisoner god
    -[X] Subterfuge excellency
    -[X] Stunt: Your anima flares around you, as you make passages with your hands, to all the world appearing to have abandoned subtlety and assisting yourself with magic.
    [x] Keep going as you have been
    [x] Keep going as you have been
    -[X] Intimidation Excellency
    --[X] "Foul parasite spawn of Kukulan, so lacking in spine that you must cheat in a duel of Wills. I will kill every body you have here and if you are not dead before this day is done I will find you and I will kill you. The poor spawn that you have brought here with you they will all die for having followed you here."
 
Honestly I find the notion that a God of Law would do anything for Reds ridiculous. I can only assume that it's not within its right mind and as Morgan describes it this thing is currently restrained somehow.

All in all sweet talking this thing should not even be an option. If we convince it of something, the Reds can just choose not to release it, and it seems to be suffering some form ailment that affects its cognitive function that a God of Law would aid the Reds in any way.

Don't even want to initiate dialogue here. It seems utterly pointless.

[X]Plan Full Power
 
Honestly I find the notion that a God of Law would do anything for Reds ridiculous. I can only assume that it's not within its right mind and as Morgan describes it this thing is currently restrained somehow.

All in all sweet talking this thing should not even be an option. If we convince it of something, the Reds can just choose not to release it, and it seems to be suffering some form ailment that affects its cognitive function that a God of Law would aid the Reds in any way.

Don't even want to initiate dialogue here. It seems utterly pointless.

[X]Plan Full Power
Also you know maybe it's literally bound by rules where it has to punish the perceivable oath breakers here or can only act in a limited purview. If we wanted to talk it should of been via telling the god the numerous possible violations the red courts committed here such as not giving us the choice of duel since they challenged us.

[X]Plan Full Power
 
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Also you know maybe it's literally bound by rules where it has to punish the perceivable oath breakers here or can only act in a limited purview. If we wanted to talk it should of been via telling the god the numerous possible violations the red courts committed here such as not giving us the choice of duel since they challenged us.
Hasn't all of that happened right in "front" of it anyway? I don't see how pointing out what it's already seen would help us.
 
I think the idea would be to screw their trap up by screwing with whatever they've done to his head.

The assumption being that they only need to go as far as they have because they can't arbitrarily control him. Instead they need to reduce his mental capacity and get him to act reflexively based on his portfolio.

So if they become convinced that their ace can't be deployed or have to redirect attention to keeping him chained down then they won't try to use it against us.

Still not sold on it, but it's still potentially workable.
We actually dont have to do this until we activate Second Shintai for the first time.
AFAIK.
Technically RaW is we were supposed to pick that feature when we bought the charm and it immediately applies to our first stage.
 
Is that why there's no explanation for the shintai thing we bought on the character sheet like other things bought last exp spend? I was wondering why as after a cursory glance I kinda gave up figuring out what it does out of laziness.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 30, 2024 at 12:43 PM, finished with 106 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X]Plan Full Power
    -[X] Write-In: Invoke Shintai: 2m, 2wp
    -[X] Activate Intimidation Excellency again if necessary
    -[X]STUNT: "Your delusions of adequacy" you declare, burning additional Essence to release parts of your kingdom into reality "have stopped. Being. Funny." Between moments, the ground freezes over across two miles of jungle, with the crack of exploding branches following an abrupt temperature drop below zero, even as an arctic wind dashes saltwater spray across the clearing. You wipe your face with a mailed fist, even as your opponents pupils dilate to the size of marbles."Bored now. Time to end."
    [x] Speak openly to the dead god, if that is their play, accuse the Red Court of breaking the rules with guile and subtlety
    -[x] Etiquette excellency
    —[x] "what hold do these oath breakers and betrayers posses upon your mind 'Oh Mallko of Law? What chain of lies and blood have they bound you in that you would bend and ear to hear the pleas of the dark brood of dread Kukulan, those that butchered your family in the night like those most cowardly of foes?"
    [X] Make it look like you are breaking the rules in order to goad the rhampires into releasing their prisoner god
    -[X] Subterfuge excellency
    -[X] Stunt: Your anima flares around you, as you make passages with your hands, to all the world appearing to have abandoned subtlety and assisting yourself with magic.
    [x] Keep going as you have been
    [x] Keep going as you have been
    -[X] Intimidation Excellency
    --[X] "Foul parasite spawn of Kukulan, so lacking in spine that you must cheat in a duel of Wills. I will kill every body you have here and if you are not dead before this day is done I will find you and I will kill you. The poor spawn that you have brought here with you they will all die for having followed you here."
 
Small question.

During this whole fight, the issue is not that the Mordite would actually kill Molly, but that it hitting her would cause damage all around, including on the relatively squishy wizards.

So I assume they have taken the time this duel lasts now to get some distance?
 
By all evidence, all of them die against outsiders. Conscription is also, essentially a form of slavery, at least in these circumstances, so no, this is meat to the grinder. Human sacrifice on an industrial scale.
I dont think there is any such evidence in the books. We dont even know how troops recruited from Winter's mortal tributaries are deployed, or what MOS they get to fill; Winter presumably doesnt recruit Miksani avian shapeshifters to dig trenches. There is too little supporting information for any such declaration to be credible.

And no, conscription is not slavery; thats like calling taxation theft.
I don't see how this is worse than what Winter does. In setting it probably even served the same goal - to keep the world going.
You dont see a difference between recruiting soldiers from a society, and taking those people for human sacrifice?
Thats certainly a take.
Im going to disagree, and leave it at that.


It didnt. We know it did no such thing in this setting.
We've seen human sacrifice in the Dresdenverse in both Blood Rites and Changes. In Blood Rites its used to feed an Outsider, while in Changes the hundreds of sacrifices were used to prime the bloodline curse.
=====
I dont think getting him involved will make this worse.
A deity which was killed or imprisoned by the Red Court should not have the ability or the volition to strike at its jailers.
Else it wont still be under their control.
Such a vulnerability would have been catnip to the Blackstaff and all the Council's ritual magic specialists.

Im having trouble grokking how its even possible for such an entity to have any role to play here just because Molly rolls a diplomacy check.
Unless the goal is to simply fake out the Reds.
=====
Small question.
During this whole fight, the issue is not that the Mordite would actually kill Molly, but that it hitting her would cause damage all around, including on the relatively squishy wizards.
So I assume they have taken the time this duel lasts now to get some distance?
I assume exploding mordite is going to scour the clearing.
If they try to leave the clearing into the South American jungle they get jumped by Reds and whatever the Reds brought with them. That puts hard limits on distance.

Nobody besides Molly(and her clones) knows she is immune to mordite anyway, so noone can make plans based on that.
 
I dont like to vote for combat, and as most plans werent exactly of my liking I decided not to vote. Honestly I dont mind using the shintai, but recharging the excellency seems a waste of essence now to be honest
Reactivating the Excellency only happens if its necessary; if its not, it wont be.
30 minutes in Last Station, or in a bottle of bleach will recover the Essence Molly uses to activate shintai.
WP is harder to recover, but thats primarily because we dont really track the points that will trigger WP recovery.
 
If they try to leave the clearing into the South American jungle they get jumped by Reds and whatever the Reds brought with them. That puts hard limits on distance.
Four Wardens and one whatever-the-fuck-our-other-bodies-are are a very tough target.

These ones got out here to kill elder vampires, none of them worries about the small stuff.
 
And no, conscription is not slavery; thats like calling taxation theft.
What is a difference between a slave and a winter-court conscripted soldier?
You dont see a difference between recruiting soldiers from a society, and taking those people for human sacrifice?
Thats certainly a take.
Im going to disagree, and leave it at that.
When the duration of soldiering is "until you die horrifically", there's no option to refuse, or leave, and the recruits taken are children? Yes, I see no difference.
It didnt. We know it did no such thing in this setting.
We've seen human sacrifice in the Dresdenverse in both Blood Rites and Changes. In Blood Rites its used to feed an Outsider, while in Changes the hundreds of sacrifices were used to prime the bloodline curse.
So what? You can use the same thing (human sacrifice) for different purposes. Mythological purpose was to feed the sun and keep the world going, if I recall correctly. At least some of it was.
 
I dont think there is any such evidence in the books. We dont even know how troops recruited from Winter's mortal tributaries are deployed, or what MOS they get to fill; Winter presumably doesnt recruit Miksani avian shapeshifters to dig trenches. There is too little supporting information for any such declaration to be credible.

And no, conscription is not slavery; thats like calling taxation theft.

You dont see a difference between recruiting soldiers from a society, and taking those people for human sacrifice?
Thats certainly a take.
Im going to disagree, and leave it at that.


It didnt. We know it did no such thing in this setting.
We've seen human sacrifice in the Dresdenverse in both Blood Rites and Changes. In Blood Rites its used to feed an Outsider, while in Changes the hundreds of sacrifices were used to prime the bloodline curse.
=====

A deity which was killed or imprisoned by the Red Court should not have the ability or the volition to strike at its jailers.
Else it wont still be under their control.
Such a vulnerability would have been catnip to the Blackstaff and all the Council's ritual magic specialists.

Im having trouble grokking how its even possible for such an entity to have any role to play here just because Molly rolls a diplomacy check.
Unless the goal is to simply fake out the Reds.
=====

I assume exploding mordite is going to scour the clearing.
If they try to leave the clearing into the South American jungle they get jumped by Reds and whatever the Reds brought with them. That puts hard limits on distance.

Nobody besides Molly(and her clones) knows she is immune to mordite anyway, so noone can make plans based on that.
You are ignoring the quest options because of background lore you are just assuming.

You have barely any info about that god, but are sure he is no use for us and shouldnt have an impact, even through the enemys plan revolves around him.


More importantly:

-You write, most of the time, as if you are the authority on how this quest works, and how its rules interact with dresden files.

-Its frustrating.You talk from a point of surety about things we are in the process of figuring out.

-You are not the author.

-I dont like your tone.

-I dont want to listen to you anymore.

I will put you on ignore. I advise you to do the same with me to reduce frustration.
 
Four Wardens and one whatever-the-fuck-our-other-bodies-are are a very tough target.

These ones got out here to kill elder vampires, none of them worries about the small stuff.
The Red Court has had preptime and warning. And we have no idea what they brought to play.

Simon Petrovich and the brute squad got killed by waves of lesser Reds, and they were a significantly heavier combat threat than a single team of combat wizards. Their own colleagues were largely brought down the same way during Dead Beat.
I dont think they would be quite so cavalier about this.

Hell, if they run into a killteam of lesser Outsiders, they all die, because most mortal magic doesnt work against them, or only works with difficulty. Ebenezar McCoy ran from Outsiders, both at the start of this quest, and at the end of Proven Guilty.
=====
What is a difference between a slave and a winter-court conscripted soldier?
When the duration of soldiering is "until you die horrifically", there's no option to refuse, or leave, and the recruits taken are children? Yes, I see no difference.
1) Members of the Winter Court have rights.


2) Uh, thats not true either.
Like I said, we dont know anything about the conditions of service of Winter's tributary troops, what they do, or for how long.
The only data we have is one conversation between Mab and Molly where its stated/implied they dont go home.

So what? You can use the same thing (human sacrifice) for different purposes. Mythological purpose was to feed the sun and keep the world going, if I recall correctly. At least some of it was.
1) The Aztecs believed that, I think, but not the Inca.

2)Those mythological purposes are not true in the Dresdenverse.
Critically, the gods in question would have known they werent true.

=====
You are ignoring the quest options because of background lore you are just assuming.

You have barely any info about that god, but are sure he is no use for us and shouldnt have an impact, even through the enemys plan revolves around him.


More importantly:

-You write, most of the time, as if you are the authority on how this quest works, and how its rules interact with dresden files.

-Its frustrating.You talk from a point of surety about things we are in the process of figuring out.

-You are not the author.

-I dont like your tone.

-I dont want to listen to you anymore.

I will put you on ignore. I advise you to do the same with me to reduce frustration.
My apologies for disturbing you.
I will not do so again.
 
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