He literally name dropped Malfeas a place that got disconnected from reality multiple iterations ago we weren't surprising him with Jack and or shit.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
He did not name drop the Crown of Eyes which is what we used in that scene. The fact that we had such an ability was not automatically known to Alfred.
You act as if all Exalted automatically pick up precog charms.
My brother in Christ there is an entire type of exalted that revolves around precog charms and every type of exalted has abilities that allow them to glean information from fucking nothing what are you trying to say there.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I was rather clear and concise.
You stated that he literally name dropped our precog ability.
I pointed out that he did not in fact "literally name drop it". Fate reading can be done by other characters in universe. Demonreach was designed to hold the worst of the worst. It very likely has prisoners capable of it that does not at all mean it expected as much from us specifically.
The fact that Exalted have the option does not mean they all automatically have a precog ability. They have to pick one up or learn. Especially not one like the Crown of Eyes.
Edit: That's not even factoring in his exposure to Merlin the Time Traveler who probably had precog out the ass and is responsible for DR even existing. Even if he did name drop the Crown so what? That doesn't mean he knew we had it that just means he recognized it.
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Good night guys, see you in the morning as we have a chat with some monsters for Valentine's Day.
As I have already said, I don't think a blade of grass or a piece of sand, or a small rock would be good foci, for the same reason that dead skin cells almost certainly aren't. They are too small. I might be wrong, yes, but I don't think I was wrong to ask the question here. We learned valuable things, and lost basically nothing.
@DragonParadox could you clarify a bit: when Demonreach asked us not to use the Crown again, did he mean "on the topics related to the island" or did he mean "while Molly is physically on the island?"?
Anything to the other part of it? With the way essence/gnosis works for spirits the numbers on those rolls look kinda weird. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the system, but it seems like both their pools should be larger.
I'm assuming this is basically a gnosis roll for Demonreach because it's too low to be essence in the base spirit context, and really surprisingly low even then given what this place is. I'd be less surprised if the island had 8-9 than 6 dots of that.
On Molly's side of things it seems like exalts basically only roll their flat essence rating against other exalts, there's a translation to other systems for these interactions because the numbers aren't constant across systems. I'd have thought this would be something like:
8 dice (modified essence) v 9 (gnosis) + 1-3* (domain stuff/merits)
If I'd had to guess prior to the chapter. Not trying to complain about losing the roll, if anyone was going to pull this off it'd be Demonreach while we stand inside its damn prison, just trying to determine if I'm reading too much into this.
*Probably on the higher end because demonreach is scary and we're standing in its place of power. As bullshit as getting to add to rolls like this is in the first place.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
We have used small foci before without issue. We have used foci with even less relation than a piece of the target itself. We typically do in fact.
You are fabricating this entirely. This has never been an issue in Quest before.
It was wrong to ask it here because we expanded the amount of people who know of the Crown for no appreciable gain (unless he only knows that we have precog and didn't recognize it specifically) when we are supposed to be keeping it a secret. Alfred could've reacted more negatively to its use on it had we failed the roll to pacify him after and we could've learned the same thing using foci other than the scene.
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He meant on the topic of the island, though to what extent he can sense you doing that when you are not on the island Molly does not know
Demonreach felt like it was on your level, it is using Essence, not Gnosis, though the Essence still feels like it belongs to the Earth, it is not an Exalt in a spooky mask or anything. That is part of that odd sense of familiarity Molly cannot pin, it is not Malfean and it definitely fits into the world around it and yet it is also very, very ancient. It's like... you know those billion year old Stromatolites that are still alive on top, that is how Demonreach feels.
We should ask permission first, then, I think, and limit the amount of questions in general. I think the "consequences of becoming a Warden Demonreach isn't aware of" is removed enough that it shouldn't be able to see it.
And I am definitely pushing for Harry to learn astrology soon.
So, it's a proper exalted god. Ok then. My hypothesis of "Merlin took a joyride to an earlier age" grows stronger and stronger. This is also a weak evidence that Odin is not at all aware of secrets of Demonreach. Because Odin is not an Essence user.
We are keeping the Crown secret for a reason, not as the goal in and of itself. Alfred, bound as he is to Harry, who knows about the Crown, I have little problem with knowing about it.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
It is not a fact that he will always be Warden of it. I already pointed this out earlier but if someone else becomes Warden later on and ask of us Alfred would then have that information to give. You are missing the point. Wardens can be switched even without the present Warden's death.
We want to keep it a secret and the Archive warned us of telling our secrets to even our allies because the best way to keep a secret is to actually try and keep that thing a secret. Not go "well this guy can be trusted so tell him" otherwise we would've told Lydia.
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This I'd like the citation on, especially since only a few updates earlier it was stated that Harry is bound to Demonreach until death parts them.
My fundamental position is that secrets kept solely for the sake of secrets are costly and counter-productive, and favor infiltrators more than defenders in the War for Reality.
So yes then? I didn't think it was an exalt, but the closest thing I see online or in the informational post on spirits to an essence ranking of this type is a spirits essence pool size, which is ridiculously huge for this purpose.
Having the ranking in the first place is a flag unless I'm missing something about how spirits work.
I don't think it's likely he can detect our use of the crown if we're not in front of him. All of our prior warnings were specifically about using it in front of people and especially in their places of power.
Even if it did I'm only willing to be polite while we're in its space. The white god had to pay for us to agree not to look at him, Demonreach can make an offer if he wants the same treatment.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Hmm.. Actually I'm probably wrong on this. Good catch, I can't source a citation for that.
There's no reason to believe this is the case AFAIK. I actually can't tell where I even got that from.
1: We aren't keeping the Crown a secret solely for the sake of keeping it a secret. There's a very good reason for it and while the fact that Molly has precog and or an informant(s) is known the Crown of Eyes is not. We've been warned to not tell anyone we don't absolutely have to and Heaven had an Angel ask us not to use it on them after learning we had it.
Trying to argue that we shouldn't be keeping it a secret is against your prior stance on the subject for a good portion of the Quest.
2: Not telling Alfred that we have the Crown or showing it to him does not help the Outsiders. He can know that we have precog without also knowing of it specifically.
Edit: Really though we've been warned by Bob, we've been warned by Harry, and we've been warned by the Author. This has been a staple of the Quest that the Crown is on a need to know basis.
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I mentioned when the hounds came up that the Essence Pools of spirits in the Werewolf books are confusing so I had that be 'mana'. Normally the thing that a spirit would roll counter to an Exalt's Essence would be their Rage/2 or their Gnosis/2 but this spirit is somehow special, it rolls Essence. If this were a normal spirit that would be a Gnosis of 12 which is as far as Molly knows impossible (as in it would be impossibility strong, she does not see stats obviously, I'm probably being too specific here, but I do not want to be confusing by assuming things when I'm half asleep).
We used a cat that had been in the same room as Mab once to learn her plans, and a mug Arthur drank from to get the full membership of the council.
The crown doesn't have any rule about foci mass, just our ability to target it. Taking rocks from the island is like taking hair from a person. A single hair should be as good a foci as anything else.
Which is why we went to Arthur and told him everything about Peabody right?
It's not the same situation, but secrecy is not an inherently positive or negative thing. It's a tool whose value depends on context. Generally it's better to be more selective than less because you can't unshare a secret and it's difficult to know what pieces of information other people need to cause problems.
For an example of the difficulty of predicting information's value, consider that the key ingredient for the darkhallow in canon was a book of poorly translated German poems and faerie tales. Censoring everything isn't a good idea, but when bad poetry can be fashioned into the firing pins of a WMD as long as it's about someone interesting it's worth reconsidering what should be considered "harmless" information.
If I recall correctly, the reason we didn't do so was to keep the crown secret, since suggestions to use the crown to find evidence of the betrayal didn't find traction.
Yes, because he'd try to exploit it and if he trusted the wrong person* then details could leak to our opposition.
My point was that defaulting to sharing things of significant without specific reason to and some understanding of the potential consequences is risky. There's a reason nobody does it and it's not just because they enjoy holding information over others.
* like he's doing right now
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Case in point, when Mab asked us about our information source for knowing of Maeve's possession by Nemesis, then immediately backed off without further prodding.
I can go on a long rant, but suffice to say that I believe that within the frame of Dresdenverse the current default information sharing policy s an atavism and is more harmful than helpful.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Even in a setting with cognitive hazards and a faction that wants to make humanity aware of its existence so it has an easier time breaking into reality?
Not that I don't think people should be more aware of things but it isn't back and white.
It isn't. I am saying that current default which seems to basically be "don't share anything unless absolutely needed" is more harmful than helpful - it favors infiltrators and saboteurs more than the defenders of reality and at least partially relies on top good guys (Uriel) knowing the secrets anyway.
I don't think we refrained from looking at White God due to how they bribed us. We respect God, and they asked. I respect Alfred and they are asking, politely. I would default to honoring their request, and checking before looking.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I believe this is a different matter. The Crown is genuinely something that should be on a need to know basis as the Author has told us along with characters in story. You've said it more than once that we should have a cover for its use even with allies.
The way those in the know keep everything a secret by default has proven to be very problematic in the long run yes.
Honestly though, it's not something you'll have to be concerned about for too much longer. It's inevitable that the Masquerade comes down and when that happens one of the only ways to gain control over the situation will be to inform the governments of the threats in the background so they can get ahead of public anarchy and anti-human faction response.
For example; Once things get out the White Council is going to have a lot of pressure to be transparent on several things and not many avenues to retaliate without going Warlock.
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@DragonParadox did Olivia get her question answered?