Here:
We checked Lily (and others) for Nemesis corruption while in Avalon in Lily's, Titania's and Archive's presence.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
1) So an Abyssal.
Which means Merlin, or someone who helped build this place, ran into at least one of each type of Celestial Exalt, and considered them to be of sufficient consequence to install a specialized detector for them.
2) Fair enough
Either way, there has to be someone around who knows
Mab, probably, who is Merlin's baby mama.
Possibly Odin, who was his teacher.
Im guessing Odin had more than one reason why he offered to teach Molly the Path of Soulfire.
If we're going poking, we should be running Perception buffs.
Both All Things Betray and Hellscry Chakra should be running.
And Impervious Primacy Mantle will probably activate once we get anywhere close to the inmates of this place.
Remember, Demonreach gives Michael nightmares in canon.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
...
Dude did you actually read the quote?
"When bent upon improper focus it will be SILENT but silence itself can be an answer and one that does not cast a thread into the ether for other eyes to see".
It didn't fire off. Nothing was to be detected. As I said.
Again this isn't arguable. DP has stated multiple times that the Crown isn't subtle and that using it in front of certain people carries risk of detection.
Edit: Nemesis also got a roll to resist it which means he may also be aware of its presence on some level.
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We have different views on how Demonreach secrecy works. If Odin knew, he clearly didn't tell anything to Gard, or she was directly scamming Marcone. Mab also seemed not to know what we were initially. Mothers absolutely know, but they might get access to memories of the Maidens.
All things betray should be running already. @DragonParadox is All Things Betray still running?
We used the Crown. The Crown was used. It produced null result in response to our question. But it was used, it checked Lily and everyone present out. Our answer was "null", or silence. But it was an answer.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
It wasn't used. They weren't a valid focus so it didn't fire off. Reread the quote it says that it cast no string to be seen. No-one was checked because we didn't have a valid Nemesis focus. Keep in mind when we asked about Nemesis it got a roll to resist. It didn't happen in that scene. No essence was spent either.
@DragonParadox Can you clear this up? When the Crown is used if it returns a Null response due to not having a valid focus can it be detected? Molly's monologue seems rather cut and dry here.
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- Location
- Canada
Y'know, if we didn't have a really convenient way to kill literally anybody, it would be awesome to have a super-prison under our friend's control to chuck our foes in. As it is, it's just a convenient place to hide out on if we somehow become enemies with a bunch of gods or something.
It is yeah.
Yes, though for the very small number of beings that can see it that is harder to notice than a question that got a response
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
So in other words if someone is capable of detecting Crown usage and we use it in front of them there will always be risk of detection including in that scene with Lily. Even if it isn't looking at the thing it gets answers from there is still some level of activation that can be noticed even if it stops due to an invalid foci.
That isn't how I originally read that scene as the method was described as "does not cast a thread into the ether for other eyes to see." but it supports my argument that DR may be able to notice its use while on the island anyway.
Its use maybe, but discerning the question we are getting is an entirely different thing. I don't have much issue with Demonreach detecting our crown use - it already knows we are an infernal.
[x] Help Harry look through his new domain, it should be safe enough for you
-[X] Using the current scene, ask what are the effects/consequences of becoming a Warden that Alfred is unable or unwilling to fully explain if asked?
-[X] Activate Hellscry Chakra
Good night guys, see you tomorrow we we wrap up things in magical supermax and and move on to... probably the end of the arc. This one has not been as busy as Vegas, but it is definitely been getting long.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
It may not even understand just what that is. Regardless the risk of using the Crown in front of people has never ever been whether or not they'd notice the question asked. It's always been about keeping the Crown itself a secret due to the implications of it as we've been warned of more than once both in and out of story and the best way to go about that is to not tell people or wave the secret in question in front of others who may be able to see it.
With Dresden as Warden now I don't see it reacting in a problematic way to its use but we should keep in mind that the more people who see it/we tell the less of a secret it becomes. If someone else becomes Warden for example and ask of us it would have that information to give if it noticed what was happening after we used the Crown in the midst of its intellectus.
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- Location
- Taken by the hand to a land that they understand
[x] Help Harry look through his new domain, it should be safe enough for you
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
This also serves as asset denial. Dresden will never turn Warlock or go the way of Kemmler and merely being a Wizard makes it possible to become Warden if Alfred agrees. It opens up the possibility of imprisoning Exalted as well if we ever need to hold one, temporarily or otherwise.
Kemmler was the previous Warden. Kemmler modified Alfred. I am VERY concerned about possible backdoor and exploits he might have left, up to and including "the warden's mind is slowly overwritten by a preserved copy of Kemmler's own". We seriously need to check, this is a very IC action.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
If he could do that, he wouldn't need to be able to do that, because he would have already done it to others. We'd be lucky if there wasn't a collective Kemmler hive mind running around fucking everything up.
Excising a relatively small portion of a spirit's memories is a far cry from drastically reprogramming what is likely the most intricate and powerful working of mortal magic in the current iteration of Creation, at least on Earth.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
This didn't happen in canon and Dresden was Warden of Demonreach then too. This doesn't even sound possible. It would require that Kemmler be able to subvert a creation of Merlin so thoroughly he'd have to be beyond him entirely.
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- Location
- Scotland
Given that this is an Abyssal, Immortal Malevolence Enslavement is a decent (and terrifying) option that springs to mind.
"Ability to understand humans" is not a relatively small portion of Alfred's memories. It is likely one of the cornerstones of island's security. The Warden is a human. WIthout ability to understand humans, Alfred isn't able to understand Warden's motivation fully, and likely cannot enact whatever contingencies there may be in case of a rogue warden acting counter to the prison's purpose - which likely was Kemmler's goal in the first place. The selection of the next Warden would also be compromised without ability to understand humans and thus check their character.
As to doing it to others - this is only an example. Creating various mental commands, backdoors, compulsions, blindspots etc are all in the realm of possibilities. As to the concern about ego subversion - it might require Demonreach infrastructure.
And it's not just Kemmler I am woried about. Note how I worded the question. "Warden of Demonreach is free lord under the Accords" is a possible consequence of becoming a Warden Alfred wouldn't know about. "Wardens of Demonreach owe X fae an inherited debt" is also a possible consequence of becoming a Warden. This is a legacy position that comes with benefits, obligations, politics, and dangers that we should learn about. Thus, the question. It doesn't cost us anything, as it uses the scene.
I don't want to rely on meta knowledge here, plus see above - I might have used a bad example, but there are tons of things that Alfred wouldn't know about or be able to tell Harry that come with the position. Like, for example, it's possible Harry just inherited some bank accounts or real estate, or debts.
EDIT:
To summarize, when I use "consequences/effects" I mean:
1) Magical consequences. How Harry's magic is going to be affected. Harry is a Starborn, and he might be the first Starborn Warden of Demonreach. Some interactions might be happening that Alfred is unaware of or at least not expecting to happen. We also know that Harry cannot claim anything else until he dies. There might be other consequences too, like different affinities becoming more or less pronounced, certain types of magic becoming available to him (maybe Ancient Sorcery?) etc.
2) Mental consequences - broadly those would be any and all possible compulsions, backdoors, blind spots, geases etc that Harry might have been exposed to. These might have been created by Kemmler, who subverted Alfred in at least some respects, by Merlin, who we know broke Laws when making the prison, so installing mental effects into the Wardenhood aren't out of the question, some of the prisoners, if the security is not totally perfect, or some other agents.
3) Political consequences - the Warden might be afforded place among senior council by default, they might be a part of certain treaties, etc. The position might owe certain debts to, or be owed certain debts by various magical beings and factions.
4) Matters of inheritance - i wouldn't put it past some of the previous Wardens, including Kemmler to have things (money, artifacts, real estate, etc) willed to their successors.
We really want to check for all of this, and the question is a good move for that.
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[X] Help Harry look through his new domain, it should be safe enough for you
-[X] Using the current scene, ask what are the effects/consequences of becoming a Warden that Alfred is unable or unwilling to fully explain if asked?
Fine, but what are the chances we get infohazards due to the 'unwilling to fully explain' part?
-[X] Using the current scene, ask what are the effects/consequences of becoming a Warden that Alfred is unable or unwilling to fully explain if asked?
Fine, but what are the chances we get infohazards due to the 'unwilling to fully explain' part?
The crown is safe. The questions cannot harm us. It's a perfect effect. We looked directly into the soul of a Neverborn to learn their nature and were unharmed.
Vote closed.
Incidentally, Harry is now only one major project away from his first magical super weapon. I'll try to dig the WoJ up for it later, but when Butcher was asked what would happen if Little Chicago was brought to Demonreach he starts laughing then says that other wizards would consider that a James Bond level supervillain plot and even Harry wasn't that reckless.
I think the original question was mostly on if the spirit would get to use intellectus on the thing, but it seems likely he could do a lot more with it.
I think the original question was mostly on if the spirit would get to use intellectus on the thing, but it seems likely he could do a lot more with it.