Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

It would but the innermost nature of this being is rather destructive. Mind you could convince him to move somewhere like the mid-Atlantic ridge where more lava does not hurt anyone, though scientists might be shocked at just how much the mountains are growing.
If the biggest consequence of feeding an ancient Rakashoid volcano a ring of endless power* is a little enhanced geological activity then I'd call that a win. :V

If the guy is picky about his independence then I think the optimal solution would be an at will rental agreement. As long as he does X service for us he can have as much magic juice as he's capable of consuming. He could leave whenever, but where's he going to find another deal like that anytime soon?

If he'd take a long term trade that'd be preferable because such an item is worth less to us than his assistance, but it seems like he'll have some trauma from all this.

* Maybe it doesn't fit the paradigm very well but it's worth the Tolkien joke.
 
It would but the innermost nature of this being is rather destructive. Mind you could convince him to move somewhere like the mid-Atlantic ridge where more lava does not hurt anyone, though scientists might be shocked at just how much the mountains are growing.
Hmm... Moon terraforming as a possible productive outlet for its activity? Luna might object to giving her a raksha pimple though.

Would Mana Maggot Plague also work to keep it fed?
 
Hmm... Moon terraforming as a possible productive outlet for its activity? Luna might object to giving her a raksha pimple though.

Would Mana Maggot Plague also work to keep it fed?
Setting aside the rest of it, we're probably not going to have a buy point before we lose our opportunity to make a good deal. Once he's whole he's going to want to start doing things again, being rootless right now makes it easier to direct where that happens.

We spent a lot on craft, this is a good situation to leverage it in for first mover advantage.
 
Setting aside the rest of it, we're probably not going to have a buy point before we lose our opportunity to make a good deal. Once he's whole he's going to want to start doing things again, being rootless right now makes it easier to direct where that happens.

We spent a lot on craft, this is a good situation to leverage it in for first mover advantage.
Yeah, you are probably right. I really want him for the forge, as either a further bonus for it (another -1? The cumulative effect of a total -2 dot rating is insane), or as a source of a steady supply of splendor / crafting reagents. First in the form of gossamer, and later, with proper setup, of orichalcium (we would need sunlight, and probably mystical enough).
 
Vote closed so we can move along.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 11, 2024 at 7:55 AM, finished with 50 posts and 5 votes.

  • [X] Back to mortal Chicago, you know where the Great Fire was said to have started and you have at least one name that must have belonged to a local, check that information
    -[X] Crown Question: What does the White Council know about the Nameless Island. Focus: Current scene with Harry Dresden, warden regional commander for the Eastern United States.
    [X] Back to mortal Chicago, you know where the Great Fire was said to have started and you have at least one name that must have belonged to a local, check that information
    -[X] Crown Question using the current scene: What are the rules under which the Embermane's Grace was acquired, is kept and can be released?
 
Harry and Butcher's plans are not relevant here. What's relevant is that there are clearly two types of Laws - Laws that arise from "doing this type of magic is corruptive and turns you into a madman" and Laws that arise from "doing this is likely to break the universe". "Seeking beyond Outer Gates" is the latter, and, if done in a significant enough way, Mab or someone else will absolutely stop you, even in complete absence of White Council.
Yes they are.


More broadly?
The White Council literally didnt exist until Merlin set it up. There were predecessor organizations, but largely regional. Prior to that, there were no Laws, no legal framework for wizards to self-police. People did as seemed reasonable to them.

And yes, if you pissed off people important enough, someone would drop by and squash you.
Not Mab, since the Fae Courts only got supervisory power in the 1st millenium AD.
But more likely one of the godly pantheons which would have been more active back then.
This is not how operating heavy machinery works. A soldier servicing nuclear missiles absolutely does not learn how to make them. They might learn some of the engineering involved, but only some. They don't learn how plutonium is produced, or specifics of how the missile is constructed.
However, a soldier commanding a nuclear missile base absolutely has to know the range and performance capabilites of the weapons he is deploying. Joseph Listens to Wind explicitly demonstrates in Turn Coat that he knows how a person bonded to the island can direct some of its capabilites to battlefield advantage.

Furthermore, Demonreach is still an artifact of human manufacture. As such there is the potential for damage, and repair.
The idea that Merlin would leave no notes to help in that event?
Just isnt credible.
 
Yeah, you are probably right. I really want him for the forge, as either a further bonus for it (another -1? The cumulative effect of a total -2 dot rating is insane), or as a source of a steady supply of splendor / crafting reagents. First in the form of gossamer, and later, with proper setup, of orichalcium (we would need sunlight, and probably mystical enough).
-2 seems like it'd be broken as much as I'd love the ability to play with crafting more; there's just something inherently entertaining about playing the McGuffin supplier for a setting*.

I think the most balanced thing if we do get to that point would be "virtual" reagents. Instead of spitting up gossamer for us directly he guzzles essence from his Sippy Cup of Doom and invests power into more "mundane" stuff as we work it in our forge, providing a supply of 1 dot materials at some decent quantity.

That would let us make more individual things and reward the investment of having both his help and possessing the forge, but wouldn't result in us buying out minor wyldfey courts or making high dot super weapons every other weekend.

* Arguably it's even an efficient way to do it. We only have so much AP even with the clones, finding the exact right variable to add to a situation to get the results we want lets us get a lot done by proxy.

I'm still sorta proud of Vegas as an example of this. Breaking the flesh trade, rebalancing the local community to a healthy state, and strengthening mortal law enforcement in the supernatural sphere in the city would have taken an ungodly amount of AP for us to do personally. Put the right sort of incentive in a place that requires the right players to do what we want to get what they need and they'll do it for you instead.
 
However, a soldier commanding a nuclear missile base absolutely has to know the range and performance capabilites of the weapons he is deploying. Joseph Listens to Wind explicitly demonstrates in Turn Coat that he knows how a person bonded to the island can direct some of its capabilites to battlefield advantage.

Furthermore, Demonreach is still an artifact of human manufacture. As such there is the potential for damage, and repair.
The idea that Merlin would leave no notes to help in that event?
Just isnt credible.
Demonreach is a classic example of archeotech, intentional one at that. It wasn't meant to be replicated, and it wasn't meant to be understood, for that would create vulnerabilities. It's as automated as possible. For the metaphor - you are moving the goalposts. But even within that paradigm, a soldier who is responsible for launching nukes wouldn't necessarily know how to disable them mid-flight.
More broadly?
The White Council literally didnt exist until Merlin set it up. There were predecessor organizations, but largely regional. Prior to that, there were no Laws, no legal framework for wizards to self-police. People did as seemed reasonable to them.
Yes, and Merlin established the Law "no time travel". He certainly wouldn't have left instructions on how to do stuff with time travel.
-2 seems like it'd be broken as much as I'd love the ability to play with crafting more; there's just something inherently entertaining about playing the McGuffin supplier for a setting*.

I think the most balanced thing if we do get to that point would be "virtual" reagents. Instead of spitting up gossamer for us directly he guzzles essence from his Sippy Cup of Doom and invests power into more "mundane" stuff as we work it in our forge, providing a supply of 1 dot materials at some decent quantity.

That would let us make more individual things and reward the investment of having both his help and possessing the forge, but wouldn't result in us buying out minor wyldfey courts or making high dot super weapons every other weekend.

* Arguably it's even an efficient way to do it. We only have so much AP even with the clones, finding the exact right variable to add to a situation to get the results we want lets us get a lot done by proxy.

I'm still sorta proud of Vegas as an example of this. Breaking the flesh trade, rebalancing the local community to a healthy state, and strengthening mortal law enforcement in the supernatural sphere in the city would have taken an ungodly amount of AP for us to do personally. Put the right sort of incentive in a place that requires the right players to do what we want to get what they need and they'll do it for you instead.
Why not gossamer directly? Fomori were using Iku Tsuro for that. We could do something similar, if at lower output due to more humane practices. Gossamer is a universal material that is damn useful for nearly everything.
 
Arc 13 Post 32: Gathering War Stories
Gathering War Stories

7th of February 2007 A.D.

"Our thanks ancient one, we will return to the world of form that we might learn more of the nameless isle and that which guards it." Bowing while flying is one of those things that will never escape being at least a little silly, but it's a small price to pay for leaving here not just unburnt but enlightened.

On the way back you fix Harry in your sight and wonder: What does the White Council know of the Nameless Island?

Its place, its purpose, the name of its Maker.


Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 11/18

"Huh... that last M tastes strange." You only realize you're speaking aloud when Harry gives you an amused look, but you are too caught up in the mystery to do more than scowl at him. The answer to the riddle was 'M' as well... "Harry when did Merlin die, the original I mean?"

There's a brief embarrassed silence. "I never thought to ask, it's not the kind of thing that feels relevant, has to have been a long time ago for the name to have become a title. Long before the White Council got to Chicago that's for sure."

"Why?" you wave your hand at the air below you. "What's to stop a wizard from flying over the Atlantic even before Columbus, before the vikings even?"

"Flying's hard," he snorts. "You're basically throwing yourself up by your own bootstraps and you have to catch every time."

"OK? So make a magic broom, heck make a magic boat that always has just the right wind in its sails. One of the greatest wizards to have ever lived could have done that right?"

Harry does not seem convinced. "Maybe but why would he? As far as he knew the ocean to the west was all open water until you hit China and Japan around the other side. Making a boat that can go against wind and wave? Doable. Making that boat and some kind of magic stew bowl that can feed you for months? That doesn't sit as well, in the stomach. "

You keep looking at him in silence as though that joke didn't make you want to groan.

Seeing as he's not getting a rise out of you Harry continues: "And then getting all the way up to the Chicago portage. Sometimes an M is just an M. I think finding those knights just has you seeing Camelot all over the place."

A reasonable enough point, but it can't quite erode the certainty in your gut.

***​

Either way you ask both your dad and Tiffany about Eschtamidel and what he might have been doing one hundred and thirty six years ago around Chicago. What you find is not a little alarming. According to Tiffany Eschtamidel is one of the more cooperative Denarians, giving his hosts a long lead, but only because he is a genuine believer in the capacity of mortal ingenuity to immolate itself, thus his affinity with fire. This reflection of a dark Promethean inclination sees him choose hosts of particularly sharp intellect who though circumstances or the machinations of their peers have been denied their chance to burn bright. He is distasteful of Nicodemus' preferred tongueless servants, seeing them as a waste of potential human resources. The particulars of his past hosts, much less when he might have lost them are however beyond her knowledge which leads you to Dad.

Samuel Maskelyne was a stage magician, inventor and alienist obsessed with the concept of biological evolution, not in the way you first guess given the eugenics was growing all the more popular at the time. No, from what Dad recalls old Samuel wanted to 'accelerate human evolution', improve upon man and wipe away his blemishes and imperfections, the needs and frailties of mortality. The whole thing reminds you far too much of Pathfinder Pharmaceuticals. That the drive might have been sincere, on the part of the warlock at least if not his Fallen companion does not make you any less worried. A passionate madman is worth more than any number of self-interested slave-makers. The Knights had clashed with him in Spain before he had vanished, later discovered to have taken ship to America after he had blown himself and a good part of the City of Chicago up.

The church might have some more records on Eschtamidel's later appearances, but he had just phoned his contacts to get more general information on the Denarians, calling back to ask for one in particular would probably just slow things down with checks over this odd behavior. Thankfully Dad isn't your only contact when it comes to the Church. There's always father Forthill. But how much to tell him about the ancient hungering flame thing just under the skin of West Chicago that you are hoping to complete?

[] Tell him some of the truth (Charima+Subterfuge DC 6 opposed roll)
-[] Just say you need information about a Denarian incursion into the city in 1871
-[] Explain that you need it to give peace to a restless spiirt

[] Tell the whole truth, complex and ocasionally terrifying as it may be

[] Write in


OOC: When Harry brings up the Original Merlin in Changes it's to ask about his fate of Ebenezer so he would not know anything at this point
 
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Samuel Maskelyne was a stage magician, inventor and alienist obsessed with the concept of biological evolution, not in the way you first guess given the eugenics was growing all the more popular at the time. No, from what Dad recalls old Samuel wanted to 'accelerate human evolution', improve upon man and wipe away his blemishes and imperfections, the needs and frailties of mortality. The whole thing reminds you far too much of Pathfinder Pharmaceuticals.​
Honestly, this is why I'm glad the current world won as Molly's soul-world. This damn univers needs some positive examples of transhumanism that aren't insanely evil baby eaters.
 
"Why?" you wave your hand at the air below you. "What's to stop a wizard from flying over the Atlantic even before Columbus, before the vikings even?"
I think the much more relevant approach to consider would be the NeverNever and having the right combination of skills, allies, and luck.

Or at least that'd answer the "how would he even know the Americas are there?" bit. Then again, so would consulting the correct spirit
 
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On the way back you fix Harry in your sight and wonder: What does the White Council know of the Nameless Island?

Its place, its purpose, the name of its Maker.
So, to be clear - not the rules by which it works, nor the craft of its making?
"Why?" you wave your hand at the air below you. "What's to stop a wizard from flying over the Atlantic even before Columbus, before the vikings even?"

"Flying's hard," he snorts. "You're basically throwing yourself up by your own bootstraps and you have to catch every time."

"OK? So make a magic broom, heck make a magic boat that always has just the right wind in its sails. One of the greatest wizards to have ever lived could have done that right?"

Harry does not seem convinced. "Maybe but why would he? As far as he knew the ocean to the west was all open water until you hit China and Japan around the other side. Making a boat that can go against wind and wave? Doable. Making that boat and some kind of magic stew bowl that ca feed you for months? That doesn't sit as well, in the stomach. "
This seems genuinely strange to read. Not in the OOC sense, but in the IC sense, to hear this from Harry. He knows native magical traditions were a thing, and Listens-to-Wind is a senior council member. Wizards should have had contact with each other via Ways long before regular travel by real world means was established. I am very curious as to Harry's biases.
Samuel Maskelyne was a stage magician, inventor and alienist obsessed with the concept of biological evolution, not in the way you first guess given the eugenics was growing all the more popular at the time. No, from what Dad recalls old Samuel wanted to 'accelerate human evolution', improve upon man and wipe away his blemishes and imperfections, the needs and frailties of mortality. The whole thing reminds you far too much of Pathfinder Pharmaceuticals. That the drive might have been sincere, on the part of the warlock at least if not his Fallen companion does not make you any less worried. A passionate madman is worth more than any number of self-interested slave-makers. The Knights had clashed with him in Spain before he had vanished, later discovered to have taken ship to America after he had blown himself and a good part of the City of Chicago up.
Genuine question - where is MIchael getting his information from? This should have been well before his birth. Do knights get some sort of information from the swords somehow, or is there an oral tradition of passing down the knowledge from one long-term knight to the other?

[X] Tell him some of the truth (Charima+Subterfuge DC 6 opposed roll)
-[X] Explain that you need it to give peace to a restless spiirt
-[X] Use Excellency
 
So, to be clear - not the rules by which it works, nor the craft of its making?

This seems genuinely strange to read. Not in the OOC sense, but in the IC sense, to hear this from Harry. He knows native magical traditions were a thing, and Listens-to-Wind is a senior council member. Wizards should have had contact with each other via Ways long before regular travel by real world means was established. I am very curious as to Harry's biases.

Genuine question - where is MIchael getting his information from? This should have been well before his birth. Do knights get some sort of information from the swords somehow, or is there an oral tradition of passing down the knowledge from one long-term knight to the other?

[X] Tell him some of the truth (Charima+Subterfuge DC 6 opposed roll)
-[X] Explain that you need it to give peace to a restless spiirt
-[X] Use Excellency
  1. Yep, that is all they know
  2. Yes, but the spirits were speaking Latin which no Native magician would have reason to integrate into their workings even if they did learn it for some reason
  3. The knights do speak to each other, they try to keep a sort of oral tradition going as a backup for the records that keep getting burned. Sure knights do also get killed losing information, but it is not always the same information lost so if you crosscheck from time to time you keep more information on the Denarians overall
 
  1. Yep, that is all they know
  2. Yes, but the spirits were speaking Latin which no Native magician would have reason to integrate into their workings even if they did learn it for some reason
  3. The knights do speak to each other, they try to keep a sort of oral tradition going as a backup for the records that keep getting burned. Sure knights do also get killed losing information, but it is not always the same information lost so if you crosscheck from time to time you keep more information on the Denarians overall
1. Ok, this is important to know.
2. No, I meant, I read the text as Dresden genuinely thinking that wizards only discovered America when mortals did, and pretty much established contact with American wizards around the time of colonization. That he found the idea of Merlin being here before North America was discovered genuinely impossible / unbelievable. Maybe I am misreading this.
3. We need to sit him down, probably in the Sanctuary, and have him write or dictate everything for posterity.
 
2. No, I meant, I read the text as Dresden genuinely thinking that wizards only discovered America when mortals did, and pretty much established contact with American wizards around the time of colonization. That he found the idea of Merlin being here before North America was discovered genuinely impossible / unbelievable. Maybe I am misreading this.

The White Council only became a global institution well after European colonization happened. Contact through the spirit world happened earlier, but it did not occur to him in this context.
 
Why not gossamer directly? Fomori were using Iku Tsuro for that. We could do something similar, if at lower output due to more humane practices. Gossamer is a universal material that is damn useful for nearly everything.
Too high grade a reagent to give us a consistent drip of unless it's pretty low frequency. I'd much rather have a lesser quality thing we get more often so we can build task specific tools more regularly. Getting rare stuff at a long interval has definite value, but it doesn't make crafting more accessible as a tool.
 
On the way back you fix Harry in your sight and wonder: What does the White Council know of the Nameless Island?
Doesn't this sort of question usually tell us the information they have and not just the itinerary?

Like if we asked what Tom knows about Jerry and he's aware that Jerry's favorite color is purple then it's be weird if the response was "he has a favorite color" as opposed to "his favorite color is purple".
 
Doesn't this sort of question usually tell us the information they have and not just the itinerary?

Like if we asked what Tom knows about Jerry and he's aware that Jerry's favorite color is purple then it's be weird if the response was "he has a favorite color" as opposed to "his favorite color is purple".

If you asked it of someone who actually knew the information sure, but Harry does not, he just belongs to the institution, it is a very tenuous connection. It goes: Scene -> Harry -> White Council to which Harry belongs to -> Whoever actually knows within the White Council
 
If you asked it of someone who actually knew the information sure, but Harry does not, he just belongs to the institution, it is a very tenuous connection. It goes: Scene -> Harry -> White Council to which Harry belongs to -> Whoever actually knows within the White Council
I guess there need to be limits somewhere, but the crown being able to get fuzzy results like this still feels weird to me.

In any case, isn't Harry the latest in the unbroken lineage of Merlin's apprentices? If there's anywhere that it's written down then it's in the journals McCoy has dating back to the big guy himself.

So if the crown is doing a proximity search from Harry to check people in the same group has him for information then it should go:

Scene -> Harry -> McCoy

Or

Scene -> Harry -> Merlin's unbroken lineage in craft -> Journals/postcog

right?

It doesn't have to sort through the whole council because Harry is unknowingly one of the most directly connected wizards alive to the topic.
 
I guess there need to be limits somewhere, but the crown being able to get fuzzy results like this still feels weird to me.

In any case, isn't Harry the latest in the unbroken lineage of Merlin's apprentices? If there's anywhere that it's written down then it's in the journals McCoy has dating back to the big guy himself.

Not that you know of, the question referenced the White Council as a whole. The more information you have the more you can refine the question and its targeting the more useful the Crown is.
 
@DragonParadox Errors
Yet you cannot just turn your face away, for all the dangers there's a right thing to do here, not just for Embermane's broken self, but for for your friends, your family, Harry and the whole city of Chicago
For one who's struggling to keep others in mind the title would seen as good as any other.
"Only what I have told you, only what I have been told. I dare not go near lest my desire to be whole overtakes me," the fire crackles low, the eyes begin to close, as the will that had driven if first to rage then conviction is starting to fade.
 
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