Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
So, this is 'Tiffany spends a bit of effort on her own part as a one-time thing to fleshwarp Daniel?'
Honestly, I don't even read it as an ongoing bargin as much as Tiffany offering to give Daniel a gift, because she can.
Like an artist making a sketch for their neighbour or your masseuse friend seeing you've had a really crap three weeks and giving you a free session for your birthday.
@DragonParadox - are these upgrades something Tiffany can undo at will/with greater ease/at greater range than fleshcrafting a random stranger for the first time would be?
Basically, if Daniel gets these, will they give Tiffany any power - direct or implicit/coercive - over him that she would not have if he does not get them? [Excepting the social/relationship power of Daniel being grateful to her]
[X] Yes, if your brother's going to be out there looking for trouble you want him to have all the advantages he can get
-[X] To Daniel, something along the lines of: 'This feels like it could undermine any advice about the danger of making bargins for power, but this case is Tiffany offering you a gift, a one-off fleshcrafting from someone I trust, rather than an ongoing empowering or being altered by some creepy stranger'.
Honestly, I don't even read it as an ongoing bargin as much as Tiffany offering to give Daniel a gift, because she can.
Like an artist making a sketch for their neighbour or your masseuse friend seeing you've had a really crap three weeks and giving you a free session for your birthday.
@DragonParadox - are these upgrades something Tiffany can undo at will/with greater ease/at greater range than fleshcrafting a random stranger for the first time would be?
Basically, if Daniel gets these, will they give Tiffany any power - direct or implicit/coercive - over him that she would not have if he does not get them? [Excepting the social/relationship power of Daniel being grateful to her]
[X] Yes, if your brother's going to be out there looking for trouble you want him to have all the advantages he can get
-[X] To Daniel, something along the lines of: 'This feels like it could undermine any advice about the danger of making bargins for power, but this case is Tiffany offering you a gift, a one-off fleshcrafting from someone I trust, rather than an ongoing empowering or being altered by some creepy stranger'.
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No, once she does it, that's it, he is changed. It would be no easier to get him back to the original level than it would be for her to strip stats off someone on the street.
[X] Yes, if your brother's going to be out there looking for trouble you want him to have all the advantages he can get
this update affirms my opinion that Daniel is a perfecf Dawn candidate. Like, hell, he went from "somewhat teained muggle teenager" to "magical martial arts practitioner" in less than two months of training, all for the sake of standing on equal grounds with his love and sister, and not out of selfish ego, but out of desire to help in the fight against the darkness of the world. Fairly sure that just this alone could have earned him a Dawn caste Exaltation if one was available. Absolute prodigy move.
this update affirms my opinion that Daniel is a perfecf Dawn candidate. Like, hell, he went from "somewhat teained muggle teenager" to "magical martial arts practitioner" in less than two months of training, all for the sake of standing on equal grounds with his love and sister, and not out of selfish ego, but out of desire to help in the fight against the darkness of the world. Fairly sure that just this alone could have earned him a Dawn caste Exaltation if one was available. Absolute prodigy move.
[X] Yes, if your brother's going to be out there looking for trouble you want him to have all the advantages he can get
-[X] This is an important teaching moment. "We have talked before about seeking power from places to not say it now would be to undermine what was said I will not lie to you and say there is no power in deals or bargains there is but there are drawbacks repercussions and consequences. I need you to understand that but there are also Gifts given by allies in true faith and as your education goes on hopefully you will always be able to tell the difference. Tiffany is offering a gift a one-off enhancement done because she feels like it not a bargain, Do you understand?"
I feel like this drives home the point without beating the drum too hard. That there was a difference between Bargains and gifts that you should not reject a hand given in good faith just because it comes from some place unorthodox. While Dresden is a bit free with his Bargains at times he realizes there's a time and a place and you have to understand what the deal you're making is. It feels like it's an important part of occult education and safety anyway.
-[X] This is an important teaching moment. "We have talked before about seeking power from places to not say it now would be to undermine what was said I will not lie to you and say there is no power in deals or bargains there is but there are drawbacks repercussions and consequences. I need you to understand that but there are also Gifts given by allies in true faith and as your education goes on hopefully you will always be able to tell the difference. Tiffany is offering a gift a one-off enhancement done because she feels like it not a bargain, Do you understand?"
I feel like this drives home the point without beating the drum too hard. That there was a difference between Bargains and gifts that you should not reject a hand given in good faith just because it comes from some place unorthodox. While Dresden is a bit free with his Bargains at times he realizes there's a time and a place and you have to understand what the deal you're making is. It feels like it's an important part of occult education and safety anyway.
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It should be noted he had a total of -3 to his rolls from a combination of Path of Fortune sorcerers and the best trainer in the world. Had he only a normal teacher and no magical support all those rolls would have been impossible. It would have taken him at a bare minimum, assuming he made every roll another another month and a half to the point where the DC was 9 and thus doable.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
So his prophesized superpower was nepotism all along?
- Location
- Brazil
In fact, this makes me more certain that we should accept this gift from Lash. Even with all these advantages we gave him with our position the tests are still at DC 9-8.
At least he was also lucky to get all three successes at once in one of the tests, great job Daniel.
First astronaut looking at a constellation of golden and rainbow stars. Wait the power was nepotism and luck the whole time? Second Spaceman pointing Glock at the head first astronaut. Always has been.
Though yeah it's always been like a mix of skill, luck and nepotism. The exalted are always fated to be people of great import even if they weren't exalted. The situations that people exalt in whether that be cast out royalty or banished nobility or just a sorceress who finds a random Tome and successfully translated it comes down to luck from birth to opportunity presenting itself you just need to have the skill to capitalize on it.
Silvereagle21
Soaring through the Sky
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Yes, if your brother's going to be out there looking for trouble you want him to have all the advantages he can get
- Location
- Germany
Just in case anyone thinks that's a big Energy-pool, compared to say Essence, Mana, Gnosis, etc.
It's not.
Every 2 points of Chi spend cause a level of unsoakable Bashing Damage to him, he can't spend more total Chi than he has Virtues (something DP didn't really introduce so far in this game) and if he runs out completely, he's dead.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Yes, if your brother's going to be out there looking for trouble you want him to have all the advantages he can get
So is he good enough to give him that black sword yet?
So is he good enough to give him that black sword yet?
Which, to be fair, would still be pretty impressive, as most Shih are trained from early childhood to awaken their Chi.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well Tiffany being with us and feeling helpful at least means that the bashing damage shouldn't last long.
- Location
- Germany
True.
But in a fight it's a problem, if you are hitting yourself as much as the enemy.
He's lucky it's only bashing damage by the way, Exalted vs WoD errata'ed it into that.
And trying to spend more Chi than he has in the according Virtue still does Lethal.
To be honest we have potions that can heal multiple levels of lethal damage so him being damaged by using more than two at a time is kind of more of an inconvenience that is actually bad even in a fight because pulling back for one round to drink a potion or just using an extra action one round isn't to big but he doesn't actually have any scene longs yet which is where the actual meat and potatoes are the Excellency to the Shih Qiao.
One of the other important things about Chi is that humans react worse that the Wan Kuei to being unbalanced. A heavily Yin imbalanced vampire looks like a corpse, a heavily Yin imbalanced human is well on their way to being a corpse. That is what those teas are for, well that and not dying from being fed on by said vampires.
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Well, actually looking at his successes, he's not doing legendary well, but he's doing good. And is willing to suffer for his goal, including suffering serious injury. I maintain that he's a good candidate for an exaltation. And it's not like I think less of, say, Gagarin, for having the state apparatus backing his training.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Looking at those rolls it likely would have been better for him to max out his melee dots first.
Mana maggot plague, with that we can use our Alchemy to make All Purpose power fillers as long as that power isn't purely spiritual (ie. Essence, Faith) we could use it to fill up Isabella and Fitzgerald keep Daniel and Olivia on full feed our ghouls so they can operate their own Supernatural powers and ethically keep Reds and young Jades.
- Location
- Norway
This really sounds weird to me, who played mostly 2e, but I guess that's just how lore changes go...
In 2e the Exaltations were much more autonomous weapons systems that picked in a very unearned fashion; they had to be, because the Unconquered Sun was under the geas of the Primordials and had to make the Exaltations independent of himself. It was a lore theme that every day thousands of acts of heroism go unrewarded, millions of people might have qualified for Exaltation but were passed over because you cannot "earn" one, Power Is Not Goodness. The Solar Exaltation does not go to the deserving, and the Solar Exaltation does not make its recipients moral.
3e has the Unconquered Sun taking more of a direct hand to be "fair" in the distribution of Exaltation to cool and deserving people, the Primordials aren't mentioned in the core lore, the Exaltations are less independent objects and more the Sun's blessing, and a lot of the reincarnation lore is removed (or at least not reprinted yet, AFAIK).
The question is - should we talk about also buffing Molly and Lydia here, or would the point where we can trade attribute buy xp reducers as compensation work better?
Also, at least Zeniths go to deserving in E2. And you can argue for a lot of others that there is at least some morality selection involved. Most canon example are described as "respectable" within their own society.
Well, yes. I didn't mean "it guaranteed him an exaltation". I meant "the achievement qualified him, and if he was lucky and a free exaltation was available, he had a chance to get one". You absolutely earn an exaltation in E2, you just also have to be lucky. Earning it is a necessary requirement, but it is not a sufficient requirement.
Also, at least Zeniths go to deserving in E2. And you can argue for a lot of others that there is at least some morality selection involved. Most canon example are described as "respectable" within their own society.
That's not quite true even in second edition they were mostly autonomous not actually completely autonomous and the choice wasn't just the geas it was the nature of exaltation and the gods that made them they had to exalt somebody. The nature of exaltation was such that as the sun must set and rise and so someone must be exalted and if Sol didn't choose the exaltation would choose for him. The maidens a fate chose the their's days, months, years, decades, centuries in advance from people that resonate with their aspects. It is not in the sun's nature to view the future it is to make the future so he chooses from people that are triumphing the second an exaltation is made available not before and not after right then so while there are millions of good candidates and I'm sure there are tens of thousands of people triumphing he just has to pick one. It's both a reward a blessing and earned I'm sure if he could have just 10,000 of them he would like to but that would require making them of a lesser quality than his nature would allow like the Dragonblooded.
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