Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I think this might be a bit facetious or very least not quite right because charity full-on had magic and now it does not anymore. Speaking a language no matter how powerful language it is isn't the same as I was a full-on wizard tier talent and now I am not anymore. Unless you're going to compare knowing a language to being a full wizard then I'm going to say it's not that serious no matter how well it predisposes someone to the supernatural.
1)Charity was a talent, not a wizard. She NEVER had wizard-tier magic.


2) Charity is married to a Knight of the Cross, and in so doing plunged head first into the supernatural world.
Her angel-warded panic room is not for show.

She has been kidnapped and attacked by a mad necromancer's ghost while pregnant with her youngest in Grave Peril, had a detachment of fetches attack her house in Proven Guilty, been jumped by the Summer Queen's preferred assassins in Small Favor. Met an archangel and the heads of the Denarians in Skin Game

Had a dedicated hit team of fomor servitors sent by Ethniu to murder her and her entire family in Battle Grounds after her husband was retired.

All of which demonstrates my point.
At a sufficient level of exposure, the supernatural doesnt forget about you, even if you try to forget about it.
This shit leaves a mark.



3) The whole discussion about Primordial is not about language, its about supernatural exposure that forces permanent changes in the student. Thats not something that I am comfortable compelling on a baby.

The supernatural is not an entirely benign place in the Dresdenverse.
Just knowledge can be harmful, and children get certain protections until they are old enough to make their own decisions in the Dresdenverse.

For example, soul-gazes do not proc on children.
Most of them cant make binding deals either, which is why the evil and opportunists leave them alone instead of trying to get them to sell their soul or similar shit.

Risking voiding the warranty because you have some agenda to force magical enlightenment early is at best, a mistake.
I would have the same objection if it was some music or food or visits to a zoo or whatever.
The vector of the effect isnt important, the effect itself is.
 
1)Charity was a talent, not a wizard. She NEVER had wizard-tier magic.


2) Charity is married to a Knight of the Cross, and in so doing plunged head first into the supernatural world.
Her angel-warded panic room is not for show.

She has been kidnapped and attacked by a mad necromancer's ghost while pregnant with her youngest in Grave Peril, had a detachment of fetches attack her house in Proven Guilty, been jumped by the Summer Queen's preferred assassins in Small Favor. Met an archangel and the heads of the Denarians in Skin Game

Had a dedicated hit team of fomor servitors sent by Ethniu to murder her and her entire family in Battle Grounds after her husband was retired.

All of which demonstrates my point.
At a sufficient level of exposure, the supernatural doesnt forget about you, even if you try to forget about it.
This shit leaves a mark.



3) The whole discussion about Primordial is not about language, its about supernatural exposure that forces permanent changes in the student. Thats not something that I am comfortable compelling on a baby.

The supernatural is not an entirely benign place in the Dresdenverse.
Just knowledge can be harmful, and children get certain protections until they are old enough to make their own decisions in the Dresdenverse.

For example, soul-gazes do not proc on children.
Most of them cant make binding deals either, which is why the evil and opportunists leave them alone instead of trying to get them to sell their soul or similar shit.

Risking voiding the warranty because you have some agenda to force magical enlightenment early is at best, a mistake.
I would have the same objection if it was some music or food or visits to a zoo or whatever.
The vector of the effect isnt important, the effect itself is.
If you're worried about exposure then you were multiple months too late. The baby's mother was magically interfacing with an infernal for multiple months before she was born had magic cast on her by a full Wizard Talent beforehand and has magic of her own. If your worried about somehow knowing a language that is still a language it isn't Magic by itself a grants a greater understanding of magical things because it's perfectly descriptive but it's not Magic by itself we can't cause reality to change just by speaking or do any other magical shit just by speaking either is somehow worse or equal or anywhere near any of those I've got a bridge to sell you in Nevada.

That warranty is also horseshit if your parents have magic as seen by almost denarian Harry who if a wizard wasn't there to catch the coin would have been denarian child with no knowledge of magic Harry. Having Supernatural parents is enough to void that warranty and we're essentially being one of the kids parents and Rosie has magic.
 
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1)Charity was a talent, not a wizard. She NEVER had wizard-tier magic.


2) Charity is married to a Knight of the Cross, and in so doing plunged head first into the supernatural world.
Her angel-warded panic room is not for show.

She has been kidnapped and attacked by a mad necromancer's ghost while pregnant with her youngest in Grave Peril, had a detachment of fetches attack her house in Proven Guilty, been jumped by the Summer Queen's preferred assassins in Small Favor. Met an archangel and the heads of the Denarians in Skin Game

Had a dedicated hit team of fomor servitors sent by Ethniu to murder her and her entire family in Battle Grounds after her husband was retired.

All of which demonstrates my point.
At a sufficient level of exposure, the supernatural doesnt forget about you, even if you try to forget about it.
This shit leaves a mark.



3) The whole discussion about Primordial is not about language, its about supernatural exposure that forces permanent changes in the student. Thats not something that I am comfortable compelling on a baby.

The supernatural is not an entirely benign place in the Dresdenverse.
Just knowledge can be harmful, and children get certain protections until they are old enough to make their own decisions in the Dresdenverse.

For example, soul-gazes do not proc on children.
Most of them cant make binding deals either, which is why the evil and opportunists leave them alone instead of trying to get them to sell their soul or similar shit.

Risking voiding the warranty because you have some agenda to force magical enlightenment early is at best, a mistake.
I would have the same objection if it was some music or food or visits to a zoo or whatever.
The vector of the effect isnt important, the effect itself is.

A small note here, while it is true that kids have some protection against certain classes of magic they do not have much in the way of protection from supernatural predators. Remember Nergui the vampire, his name means 'Nameless'? He got that as a small child as a means of protecting him from evil spirits on the Mongolian steppe. Things did not stop feeding on children in the meantime. There are entire classes of vampires, predatory fey and other stranger monsters that prefer feeding on children.

That said yes a five year old who speaks Primordial could absolutely sell their soul.
 
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I'm not going to vote to teach Amanda this, because besides thinking it's an exaggeration that won't have an effect on the quest time, I'm almost certain, considering your votes, that you'll use this victory as an excuse to try to spread the knowledge to all humanity later and I have zero interest in it
Babies start talking at ~ 10 months of age (10 to 14). That's quest time, even assuming no time skips or such later.

1)Charity was a talent, not a wizard. She NEVER had wizard-tier magic.
What the hell? Back this up with a citation. As far as I know, Charity was a full wizard.
3) The whole discussion about Primordial is not about language, its about supernatural exposure that forces permanent changes in the student. Thats not something that I am comfortable compelling on a baby.
No, it's about language too. But to take your bait - Amanda is already exposed to the supernatural, has no angelic protection, and normal mundane humans are cattle in Dresden Verse. They enjoy no significant benefits, and are often victims of supernatural. There's no tangible benefit to keeping someone ignorant, outside of specific circumstances, like being a knight's family, which affords one protection as job benefit for the knights from White God.
For example, soul-gazes do not proc on children.
Most of them cant make binding deals either, which is why the evil and opportunists leave them alone instead of trying to get them to sell their soul or similar shit.
And yet, they can become denarians as toddlers. "Protections" are... not very complete, to say the least. Ignorance is very much not bliss.
 
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Babies start talking at ~ 10 months of age (10 to 14). That's quest time, even assuming no time skips or such later.
No, when I say effects during the time of the mission, I am referring to the various possible advantages that you were using to justify teaching the language to her, unless you wanted a baby or a child under 5 years to be an active part of magic ritual?

I have no problems with using the Source Code to ask what Amanda wants when she is crying, as mentioned by another person.
 
No, when I say effects during the time of the mission, I am referring to the various possible advantages that you were using to justify teaching the language to her, unless you wanted a baby or a child under 5 years to be an active part of magic ritual?

I have no problems with using the Source Code to ask what Amanda wants when she is crying, as mentioned by another person.
No, I didn't want her to participate in magic rituals, but I would enjoy reading about Amanda growing up as a tetriary plot thread. Her starting to talk and the fun things that happen when she talks in Primordial language are a payoff for me, it would be amusing, I feel.
 
If you're worried about exposure then you were multiple months too late. The baby's mother was magically interfacing with an infernal for multiple months before she was born had magic cast on her by a full Wizard Talent beforehand and has magic of her own. If your worried about somehow knowing a language that is still a language it isn't Magic by itself a grants a greater understanding of magical things because it's perfectly descriptive but it's not Magic by itself we can't cause reality to change just by speaking or do any other magical shit just by speaking either is somehow worse or equal or anywhere near any of those I've got a bridge to sell you in Nevada.

That warranty is also horseshit if your parents have magic as seen by almost denarian Harry who if a wizard wasn't there to catch the coin would have been denarian child with no knowledge of magic Harry. Having Supernatural parents is enough to void that warranty and we're essentially being one of the kids parents and Rosie has magic.
In order:
Passive witness =/= Active participation. The Carpenter children live in the same home as an angel in a sword, and the only one that inherited magic was Molly.

Thats not true either.
Do you think it was coincidence that Dresden was right there at the time to interdict the Coin?
Or that Michael was explicitly outside to see Nicodemus try that particular stunt?

A small note here, while it is true that kids have some protection against certain classes of magic they do not have much in the way of protection from supernatural predators. Remember Nergui the vampire, his name means 'Nameless', he got that as a small child as a means of protecting him from evil spirits on the Mongolian steppe. Things did not stop feeding on children in the meantime. There are entire classes of vampires, predatory fey and other stranger monsters that prefer feeding on children.

That said yes a five year old who speaks Primordial could absolutely sell their soul.
Oh, they arent immune to physical attack. Supernatural predators can and do kill them
But the subtler, and arguably greater dangers have to at least keep a distance until they are old enough to make their own decisions legally, which appears to be around 16-18 for most children.


Yup, I was afraid of that. Hard pass.
There is nothing that early enlightenment can confer which is going to offset that particular disadvantage.


What the hell? Back this up with a citation. As far as I know, Charity was a full wizard.
She was NEVER a wizard-class magic user. She knew this, the White Council even tested her.
Thats why she was in a cult in the first place. I quote:
"How did you know?" she asked.
"Just putting lots of little things together," I said. "Please, Charity. Tell me."
Her voice was rough, half strangled, as though the breath that carried her words had been tainted with something rotten. "I had some talent. It showed just before my sixteenth birthday. You know how awkward that kind of thing can be."
"Yeah," I said. "How'd your family take it?"
Her mouth twisted. "My parents were wealthy. Respectable. When they had time to notice me, they expected me to be normal. Respectable. They found it easier to believe that I was a drug addict. Emotionally unbalanced."
I winced. There were a lot of situations that could meet someone with a burgeoning magical talent. Charity's was one of the worst.

"They sent me away to schools," she said. "And to hospitals disguised as schools." She waved a hand. "I eventually left them. Just left them. I struck out on my own."
"And fell in with a bad crowd," I said quietly.
She gave me a bitter smile. "You've heard this story before."
"It isn't uncommon," I said quietly. "Who was it?"
"A… coven, of sorts, I suppose," she said. "More of a cult. There was a young man leading it. Gregor. He had power. He and the others, all young people, mixed in religion and mysticism and philosophy and… well. You've probably seen such things before."
I nodded. I had. A charismatic leader, dedicated followers, a collection of strays and homeless runaways. It rarely developed into something positive.
"I wasn't strongly gifted," she said. "Not like you. But I learned about some of what happens out there. About the White Council." The bitter smile returned. "Everyone was terrified of them. A Warden visited us once. He delivered a warning to Gregor. He'd been toying about with some kind of summoning spells, and the Wardens got wind of it. They interviewed each of us. Evaluated us. Told us the Laws of Magic, and told us never to break them if we wished to live."
I nodded and listened. She spoke more quickly now, the words coming out in a growing rush. They had been pent up a long time.
"Gregor resented it. He grew distant. He began practicing magic that walked the crumbling edges of the Council's Laws. He had us all doing it." Her eyes grew cold. "The others began disappearing. One by one. No one knew where they had gone. But I saw what was happening. I saw Gregor growing in power."
"He was trading them," I said.
She nodded once. "He saw my face, when I realized it. I was the next one to go. He came to take me away, and I fought him. Tried to kill him. Wanted to kill him. But he beat me. I remember only parts of it. Being chained to an iron post."
"The dragon," I said.
She nodded. Some of the bitterness faded from her smile. "And Michael came. And he destroyed the monster. And saved me." She looked up at me. Tears filled her eyes and streaked down her cheeks, but she did not blink. "I swore to myself that I would leave that behind me. The magic. The power. I had… urges." She swallowed. "To do things only… only a monster would do. When Siriothrax died, Gregor went mad. Utterly mad. But I wanted to turn my power against him anyway. I couldn't think of anything else."
"Hard to do," I said quietly. "You were a kid. No real training. Exposed to some nasty uses of power."
"Yes," she said. "Without Michael, I would never have been able to leave it behind me. He never knew. He still doesn't know. He remained near me, in my life. Making sure that I was all right. And… he was such a good soul. When he smiled at me, it was like all the light in the world was shining out at me. I wanted to be worthy of that smile.
"My husband saved my life, Mister Dresden, and not only from the dragon. He saved me from myself." She shook her head. "I never touched my power again after the night I met Michael. We married soon after. And in time, the power withered. And good riddance to it."
"So when Molly's talent began to manifest," I said quietly, "you tried to get her to abandon it as well."
"I was well aware of how dangerous it could be," she said. "How innocent it could seem." She shook her head. "I did not want her exposed to the things that had nearly destroyed my life."
No, it's about language to. But to take your bait - Amanda is already exposed to the supernatural, has no angelic protection, and normal mundane humans are cattle in Dresden Verse. They enjoy no significant benefits, and are often victims of supernatural. There's no tangible benefit to keeping someone ignorant, outside of specific circumstances, like being a knight's family, which affords one protection as job benefit for the knights from White God.
If it was about language, you'd stick to teaching them Spanish.
Or Mandarin. Or French.
Even Brass Courts Common, which is largely useless to her mundane life, at least isnt a cognitohazard.


Passive exposure is not the same as active assimilation.
Which is why the kids in the Carpenter household live with a literal angel in a Sword and have no greater sensitivity to magic than any other random kid.


And as the QM has confirmed, a five year old who speaks Primordial can very much sell their soul in this AU.
I am very much against enabling that state of affairs.
Thank you.
And yet, they can become denarians as toddlers. "Protections" are... not very complete, to say the least. Ignorance is very much not bliss.
1) A Coin of one of the Thirty is in itself a pretty potent magical influence that you have to choose to pick up.

2)No, they can be exposed to the Fallen's Shadow in the Coin.
That doesnt mean they can become Denarians immediately, but it does give a literal demonic seducer with thousands of years of mortal experience access to a growing child 24/7.
 
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Okay, that's a rather derogatory way to say that. Yog has leadings that don't just arbitrarily hog the knowledge that we're not using that people are looking for. This tendency to just say no we know things and we're just never going to tell anyone just because is horseshit it is literally exalted Behavior and wizard Behavior the worst kind of exalted Behavior Dragon blooded Behavior too. Oh they don't need to know the information that they devoted their lives to finding we can just never tell them or never even give a hint or just silently put the information out there even if nothing ever comes from it it's good that they have it.

To treat the arbitrary hoarding of knowledge that literally can't hurt anyone as virtuous or good is obviously horseshit it's one thing not to want to do with it it's another to say it's a good thing note I'm not saying primordial language this is more about the aliens thing.

To give proof to the shitty magical personal hoarding knowledge that people are spending their lives trying to find and study behavior that I'm speaking of.
I'm sure I've already said this to Yog, but his style is to try to use everything we could do and distribute it to as many ordinary people as possible. I don't deny it's often a good deed, even if sometimes he doesn't take it into account all the consequences, but it's not the style of quest I want to see or find interesting.

So, when I see an option that I don't like, I sometimes highlight it and explain why I don't like it. Since the quest is a place where we vote on what we find most interesting, I don't see a problem with my behavior. Unless I am forced to agree or vote for the options I don't like because they are "the best options for society" or "it's the right behavior instead of *something else*".

And if you follow the discussion followed by this quote, it showed several reasons why the Council did not explain this, only one of them (that I remember more or less) being reasons that they would have to spend time trying to wash this knowledge (something that Harry himself points out in that same quote) when they could be doing something else, being this something more important or just something they like more.

And finally, no one is forced to share all their knowledge, people/organizations do it because there is a return or there is some benefit.

No, I didn't want her to participate in magic rituals, but I would enjoy reading about Amanda growing up as a tetriary plot thread. Her starting to talk and the fun things that happen when she talks in Primordial language are a payoff for me, it would be amusing, I feel.

Personally, I don't think so.
 
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I'm sure I've already said this to Yog, but his style is to try to use everything we could do and distribute it to as many ordinary people as possible. I don't deny it's often a good deed, even if sometimes he doesn't take it into account all the consequences, but it's not the style of quest I want to see or find interesting.

So, when I see an option that I don't like, I sometimes highlight it and explain why I don't like it. Since the quest is a place where we vote on what we find most interesting, I don't see a problem with my behavior. Unless I am forced to agree or vote for the options I don't like because they are "the best options for society" or "it's the right behavior instead of *something else*".

And if you follow the discussion followed by this quote, it showed several reasons why the Council did not explain this, only one of them (that I remember more or less) being reasons that they would have to spend time trying to wash this knowledge (something that Harry himself points out in that same quote) when they could be doing something else, being this something more important or just something they like more.

And finally, no one is forced to share all their knowledge, people/organizations do it because there is a return or there is some benefit.
Okay, just because you're not forced to doesn't mean it's not shitty. The council's reasons are not good or at very least don't make sense under the premise that they're pushing. Molly herself in that instance realizes what the fuck that's terrible and while she agrees that some things are better left unsaid or no one is forcing the white Council to do anything Molly obviously sees a problem with the behavior.

Because just publishing anonymously with achieve the same ends and if the mortal world doesn't take it seriously that's where it ends and if the world takes it seriously they historical records and previous cultural texts that were previously unreadable but in the end you did the right thing whether you got thanks or not.

The council can be forgiven for this because they can't interact with computers and they're all so fucking hundreds of years old at the top and only just coming into adulthood at the bottom so there's not really a heavy cultural push to not keep shit that would really validate or at very least help the study of every culture on Earth back into mortal hands. If Arthur finds anything wrong with the British museum I'll eat my hat. The leadership is just not in a place to be open like that.

Even Harry in that instance is aware of the flimsiness of the excuse. Though he gives the line he obviously isn't in full agreeance either. Despite not really caring one way or the other about the dissemination of knowledge on my end unless something is blatantly showing that it would be harmful I'm always going to push on the dissemination because it's just a good thing to do.

The list of intelligent alien getting back to s.e.t.i through washed channels, linguistic archives and keys of dead languages getting back through washed channels other than completely denying the history of every civilization that you have the key to and don't disseminate so they can be known what purpose does sitting on that information give especially when it costs you nothing to disseminate it.

This information getting back out doesn't harm anything specifically helps the study of both history and the universe and in general is a nice and good thing to do so in my mind Molly is a good person who is obviously aware of the context that you may see discoveries in and as a good person herself the path becomes obvious . The thing that makes a person good isn't what they do when someone's watching or when they would benefit it's what they do when they're alone or what they do when they're the only one with information.

While it's not overtly as exciting as planting a hope bomb in a Hell it's not at all conventionally or actually different just one of them is overtly magical and the other isn't.

The actual point I was making there about your comment was the knowing Yog part despite them never advocating for that despite the fact we've had the charm for I don't know how long now.
 
Ok, so, let me try to make a stab at Spirit (god) of Chicago, the City of Wonders (because that's what Chicago is going to be soonish).

In the process of checking it out I ran into some interesting things, and probably the limits of Holden's craft system. It's definitely not built for such entities.

Narratively, I expect this to be a grand working, done together by Molly, who provides exalted crafting and essence, Tiffany, who does whatever flesh shaping and design as needed, provides angelic perspective, Harry, who provides the perspective of having built, and perhaps actual Little Chicago as the anchor point, Porter as one of, if not the eldest spirit/elemental of the city, and Lydia, who... I would say provides connection to Death, symbolically and magically, to make the spirit more alive. I am unsure of that would be modeled, however. Possibly stuff to do with her connection to familiars / being a summoner (more below).

First, let's see a more standard Holden version, based on Arcana: Emanation.
General notes: because Tiffany is participating, I am setting all physical and mental attributes to 10, while converting normal attribute building points into freebie points (3+5+3+3=14*5/2=35 freebie points). The argument for Tiffany being able to craft non-flesh flesh is her own body, which, I remind you, is a clay and metal golem magically transformed into flesh-like substance. This gives 50 total freebie points to start with (15+35=50).

Willpower: ●●●●●●●●●● (5+5 from freebie points)
Health Levels: 0/0//-1//-2//-3//-4//-5//Inc

Attributes
PHYSICALSOCIALMENTAL
Strength ●●●●●●●●●●Charisma ●●●●●●○
Perception ●●●●●●●●●●
Dexterity ●●●●●●●●●●Manipulation ●●●●●○○Intelligence ●●●●●●●●●●
Stamina ●●●●●●●●●●Appearance ●●○○○○○Wits ●●●●●●●●●●

Abilities
Favored abilities are bolded
TALENTS (primary + 11 expertise points)SKILLS (secondary + 2 expertise point)KNOWLEDGES (tetriary + 9 expertise points)
Alertness ●●●●●
Animal Ken ○○○○○Academics ●●○○○
Athletics ○○○○○Crafts ○○○○○Computer ○○○○○
Awareness ●●●●●Drive ○○○○○Finance ●●○○○
Brawl ●●●●●Etiquette ●●●○○Investigation ○○○○○
Empathy ●●●○○
Firearms ●●○○○Law ●●○○○
Expression ○○○○○Larceny ●●○○○Medicine ○○○○○
Intimidation ○○○○○Melee ●●○○○Occult ●●○○○
Leadership ○○○○○Performance ○○○○○Politics ●●○○○
Streetwise ●●●●●●Stealth ○○○○○Science ●●○○○
Subterfuge ○○○○○Survival ●●○○○Technology ●●○○○

Phantasm (Emanation): Emanations can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the emanation's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, or within ten yards of its master. It must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a
scene. It may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to its master's or keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master the emanation's name, the Arcana hears her words wherever it may be.
If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to her master's location and
manifest without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is also
destroyed. If the emanation is slain, it may reform one hundred years later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 10 years.
If the emanation's master has learned The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell,
the phantasm may treat its master's Hell as a keystone.
Ephemera are always otherworldly, disturbing beings with demonic features of some sort that
cannot be mistaken for as human.
The Arcana's body is made primarily out of stone or clay. It
reduces the difficulty of soak rolls by one, or by two against harm inflicted by stone weapons.
All Arcana constructed by Dragon-Blooded must take one Elemental Frame quality.
The Arcana's body is made of tougher stuff than others of its kind. If the
Arcana could normally only soak bashing damage, it can now also soak lethal damage. If the
Arcana could normally soak lethal damage, it can now also soak aggravated damage at difficulty
8.
The Arcana's body is incorporates some sort of deadly weaponry such
as metal fists, claws, fangs, horns, or sharpened bone protrusions. Her Brawl attacks inflict
Strength + 1 lethal damage.
The Arcana gains seven additional dots of Abilities, which may be used to raise
them above three dots. Taking this Feature additional times provides only five bonus dots.
The Arcana gains a Favored Ability, which may be raised as high as 6 dots.
Increasing the Arcana's Favored Ability only costs one freebie point per dot.
The Arcana's body is immune to environmental or movement
penalties and incidental damage from a certain type of harsh environment. This can protect it
against arctic cold, poisonous fumes, or the burning heat of a desert, but not against intense perils
such as industrial acids or molten lava.
Perhaps the Arcana has inhuman legs. Perhaps it is a dozen torsos stitched together and
speeding along on a dozen sets of arms. Perhaps it is propelled by an elemental wind. Whatever
the case, its movement speed and is doubled, or tripled if this Feature is taken twice.
The Exalt has either already made extensive study
of the mystic arts prior to Exaltation, or has the po-
tential to do so in the future. She may buy Paths and
rituals from Sorcerer Revised Edition. A dot of a Path
costs 4 Freebie Points during character creation, while
rituals cost 2 Freebie Points. During play, Paths cost 4
experience points for the first dot, and current rating ×
4 for additional dots, while rituals cost their rating in
experience points. Twilight Castes, Daybreak Castes,
No Moon Castes, Air Aspects, Chosen of Secrets, Mar-
row and Soil Aspects, and all Infernal Exalted pay cur-
rent rating × 3 for additional dots, instead.
The Merit costs only 3 points for Chosen of the
Twilight, Daybreak, and No Moon Castes. It costs 4
points for Sidereals, Air Aspects, Marrow and Soil As-
pects, and Infernals.
All changelings have some vision of their path, but you've a
special commitment to it. You don't concern yourself with petty
matters, because your higher purpose is everything. Though you
sometimes behave in ways contrary to the needs of survival,
your purpose grants you great personal strength. The difficulty
of any roll that has something to do with this higher purpose is
reduced by two. Decide what your higher purpose is, and make
sure you discuss it with the Storyteller.
To those who can sense it, your aura burns with amazing
brilliance and clarity. Even folks who can't actually perceive
this bright corona of energy realize that you're "different."
Entities that can read your aura react accordingly; some will
treat you with uncommon respect, while others will view you
as a nice meal. The nature of your aura cannot be hidden
easily (+2 to the difficulty of any attempt to do so), and while
this is a dreadful disadvantage for, say, a Nephandus, people
who prize forthright integrity may reduce their difficulties by
-2 when they're trying to make an impression that's in accord
with that vivid aura and affecting characters who can sense it.
Assuming that you employ these optional Traits, your
Resonance and Synergy each get a vivid, one-dot boost from
this Merit – see Chapter Three, pp. 133-134, for details. For
aura colors and tones, see Mage 20, p. 507.
Everything, to you, has a richer significance than it might
otherwise appear. The flight of birds, the fall of cards, the
patterns of sand after a wave, a spatter of sacrificial blood…
in your eyes, they're all clues to the Universal Mystery.
You're good at deciphering such clues, and so while many
enigmas remain unanswered, you often spot insights that
other people – even mages – fail to see.
In game terms, you can make a Perception + Awareness
roll (difficulty 7) whenever the Storyteller feels you're in
a position to perceive a hidden message in apparently
random phenomena. If you do spot what appears to be
a message, you can make a second roll of Perception +
Esoterica (or Occult, whichever is higher) to see if you
can interpret the message you think you see. The diffi-
culty of this interpretation roll depends on how random
the phenomena is; a deck of cards, for instance, is less
random (difficulty 6 or 7) than a scatter of crow feathers
(difficulty 8 or 9), and so is better suited for divination
purposes. This doesn't mean you can't read that scatter
of feathers, only that doing so is more challenging than
interpreting a deck of cards!
A successful interpretation roll wins a vague yet potentially
valuable answer from the Storyteller – couched, of course, in
symbolic metaphors and wide-open meanings. (Storytellers, see
The Deeper Level in Mage 20, pp. 363-366, and Prophecy
and Hindsight in How Do You DO That?, pp. 55-56, for
guidance.) Such answers are not at all reliable, naturally, but
they stand a decent chance of being accurate enough to help
you read patterns in apparently random chance.
Uncanny radiance surrounds you. Perhaps you shimmer
with holiness, reek of death, smolder with the essence of the
Pit, or otherwise reveal an affinity for a given element through
your very presence. The specifics depend upon the sort of
creature you are and the essential nature of your true self: An
infernal entity projects an unholy aura (scent of brimstone,
unnerving chorus of damned-soul voices, and so forth), an
elemental conjures phenomena related to its home element
(breeze, flickering flames, dampness, blooming plants, that
sort of thing), an embodiment of technological principles
radiates cold perfection… you get the idea.
As an Advantage, this Aura ripples the localized environ-
ment surrounding the entity in question. It doesn't inflict
damage upon the area or on characters within that area, but
it can be rather unnerving to folks who have reason to fear
such entities. People and entities opposed to the nature of
this creature (like demons in the presence of an angel, or vice
versa) feel compelled to flee unless they spend a Willpower
point to remain in the aura-bearer's vicinity; if they stay,
such creatures suffer a +3 addition to the difficulty of all
rolls they make against the character who radiates the Aura.
More neutral characters, meanwhile, can't help but notice the
pervasive effects of this entity: withering or flourishing plant-
life, shining light or glowering darkness, faint music, metallic
clanging, or a buzz of flies, and other similarly environmental
effects. While those effects won't influence system modifiers,
they speak volumes — for good and ill — about the nature of
the entity in question. The character can spend a point of
Willpower to suppress the Advantage for one scene, at which
point, a witness needs to make a successful Awareness roll,
difficulty 7, to discern the character's true nature. Otherwise,
the Aura manifests as a matter of course, without any form
of "activation" required or any duration set on the length
of its effects.
As a Flaw, this Trait cannot be suppressed. The Aura
betrays the character's nature whether he wants it to be
obvious or not.

The alternative is to build it as a spirit, as described in M20 books. That's a much more powerful build, with different systems. I think it might be more appropriate for a full-on major city god, but that's certainly up for debate. Anyway:
First, I'll quote systems here:
Spirit
Ephemeral entities from across the Gauntlet, spirits embody
principles and forces more primordial than human beings. While
many spirits have recent origins, their metaphysical essence (in
game terms, the Essence Trait — see Mage 20, p. 489) is the force
of existence itself. Spirit characters, then, remain enigmatic even
to their companions. On one hand, spirits are what they are, with
few pretenses or deceptions about their true nature; on the other,
they're immortal forces wearing guises that seem far more limited
than the forces they personify. Even when they look like crows, cats,
or human beings, spirits are — literally by nature — Otherworldly.
Chapter Four deals with spirits in detail, and the Mage rules
regarding them can be found in Mage 20, pp. 485-495. From a
roleplaying and character-creation perspective, such entities should
be restricted to the Storyteller alone, if only because spirits lose their
mystery when they become just another character for folks to play.
Under an optional rule, a player might be able to create and
run an incarnated spirit character — that is, a familiar whose
ephemeral body has manifested in a physical form. For details,
see the "Familiar" entry, above.
For further reference, see the Companion Character Creation
chart. For details about buying Charms, see "Purchasing Charms,"
p. xx, and for roleplaying suggestions, check out the Mage 20
entries for "Inhuman Entities" (pp. 356-357) and "Atmospheric
Powers" (p. 495).
Spirits are built and do combat very differently from mortals. For one, they don't have attributes. They have Willpower, Rage, and Gnosis traits, and the sum of those forms their Essence trait, which is both their health levels and energy pool:
Willpower
Essentially the physical Trait for spirit beings, Willpower
allows Umbrood characters to fly, chase, attack, climb, escape,
and perform most other activities that a human character's
Dexterity or Stamina can do.
When a spirit struggles with another spirit, those
characters resolve their issues with a resisted roll of Willpower
against Willpower. If the spirit's trying to accomplish
something on its own, the Storyteller strives to make a
successful roll on its behalf, just as any other player would
do. In either case, the difficulty of that roll depends on the
task, as per the chart nearby.
Spirit Tasks
Difficulty Action
3 Easy
5 Simple
6 Straightforward
8 Difficult
10 Virtually impossible
Rage
A reflection of a spirit's determination and wrath, Rage
handles those tasks that would normally require Strength:
breaking things, hurting people, throwing force against an
opponent.
When a spirit attacks another character, the Storyteller
rolls one die for each point of Rage against difficulty 6.
Each success inflicts one health level of lethal damage.
Mages – thanks to their Awakened Avatars – can try to soak
this damage by using the Avatar Background as a soak roll.
Night-Folk with the proper Disciplines or Gifts can try to
soak this damage as well. Most mortals, however, cannot
endure spiritual injury, and normal armor (that is, armor
that hasn't been enhanced with magick or technomagick)
means nothing to a spirit's Rage.
(Note: In Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20 th Anniversary
Edition, spirit-based Rage damage is aggravated. Because mages
don't regenerate aggravated damage, however, this option may
be too fatal for a Mage chronicle. If the Storyteller decides to let
the Avatar Background soak aggravated damage, then the usual
Werewolf rule may be used instead. Using the agg-damage option,
however, can send the average mage straight to the cemetery.)
Gnosis
The sublime knowledge that spirits understand, Gnosis
allows a spirit to perceive and communicate with the world
around it. Most tasks that would normally involve Social or
Mental Traits – as well as feats or attacks that involve certain
Charms
(see below) – employ the Gnosis Trait.
Essence
Representing the raw energy of an Umbral being, Essence
is the stuff from which spirits are made. In game terms, each
point of damage scored upon a spirit, after that spirit's soak roll,
removes one point of Essence. When that spirit casts a charm,
it often spends Essence in order to do so. Typically, the Essence
comes from the total of that spirit's Willpower + Rage + Gnosis.
The Storyteller, however, can always add or subtract from that
base essence in order to reflect especially strong or weak spirits.
As a spirit starts to lose Essence, it begins to look haggard
and translucent. Damage wears away that spirit's being until its
ephemeral form gets dispelled. Once it dies, the injured spirit
dissipates into the Umbra and remains gone for several hours.
(Storyteller's judgment, although as a rough guideline you could
figure 20 hours, minus one hour for each point of that spirit's
Gnosis Trait.) After that time, the spirit re-forms with a single
Essence point, then flees to some secluded spot where it can
safely recharge itself in a state called Slumber, described below.
Although they might occasionally assume human form,
spirits aren't mortal beings. As creatures of ephemera, they
handle certain things differently than other characters do.

Communication
Umbrood entities communicate through impressions and
feelings, rarely through words as people understand that term.
The spirit tongue is more a matter of reading and sending such
impressions than it is a language of words and sounds. Even so,
many of the more intelligent spirits – especially totems, demons,
angels, courtiers, and godheads – can speak and comprehend
human languages when they choose to do so.
Until and unless these entities decide to communicate this
way, a mortal needs Spirit 2 in order to share a conversation
with the Umbrood. Without such magick, a human might use
Perception + Awareness or Enigmas to try to puzzle out a spirit's
feelings and attempt to communicate with it; this method,
though, is crude and imprecise – kind of like trying to mime a
conversation with someone from a vastly different culture and
social class than your own. (The roll's difficulty depends on the
alien-ness of the spirit in question, but it is rarely less than 7.)

Movement
All spirits can fly or float through the Umbra. At top
speed, an Umbrood entity can move at (20 + Willpower) yards
or meters per turn. It's worth mentioning, though, that time
and distance work strangely in the Otherworlds, often warping
in unpredictable ways when viewed by human beings.

Slumber
A weakened spirit retreats to a secluded region where it
can safely restore its Essence to full strength. Godheads, totems,
kami, and ancestor spirits often go to temples or shrines where
mortal belief and reverence nurture their recovery and provide
sacred ground where such spirits feel safe. Other entities flee
to hidden Glens, Courts, or Afterworlds. Spirits of malaise
might retreat to Blights, hells, or even the Umbral side of crime
scenes and atrocities. During its recovery, the spirit floats in
a state of Slumber, dreaming whatever passes for dreams in a
spirit's mind.

Binding Spirits Into Fetishes
While Slumbering, an Umbrood entity may be bound into
a Spirit-fueled Wonder – a Fetish – by a person with Spirit 4.
That Fetish won't be usable, however, until the spirit returns to
its full Essence – the item draws off of the imprisoned spirit's
Essential self. Even so, it's the Fetish's user, not the spirit
itself, that activates that Fetish… and the spirit is very much a
prisoner inside that item.
Although certain spirits strike bargains with mortals
who craft Fetish Wonders, most entities get VERY annoyed if
they wind up being held prisoner inside some presumptuous
human's toy. Considering that spirits are more or less immortal,
it's not wise to court a spirit's anger by imprisoning it within a
Fetish unless you're some sort of badass… like, say, a werewolf
or master shaman.

Spirits in Combat
As detailed earlier in the Spirit Combatants section (pp.
417-418), spirits attack with Willpower and inflict damage
with Rage. They also soak damage with Willpower, possibly
augmented with the Armor Charm, below. All forms of
damage – bashing, lethal, and aggravated – are the same to
spirit entities. Any damage a spirit doesn't soak gets deducted
from its Essence Trait.
Most mortal beings cannot touch spirits unless there's
magick involved. A human character needs Spirit 2 in order
to make physical contact with a spirit that has not employed
the Materialize Charm (again, see below). For other details,
see Spirit Combatants and the Spirit Combat section of the
Order of Battle chart (p. 445).

Spirits get larger Essence pools compared to even solaroids. Their pools are either Willpower+Rage+Gnosis or Willpower * 5 (M20: Gods and Monsters p. 187, rules for familiars). They can aslo raise their Essence for 2XP*current rating.

Spirits get their own charms. Here is what M20: Gods and Monsters says about them and buying them:
The unearthly powers of ephemeral entities
put most talents of mortal creatures to shame.
Such powers, or Charms, draw upon the Essence
of the spirit, concentrating its very existence
into the force of the Charm.
The rules surrounding Spirit Charms can
be found in the Mage 20 section regarding
Umbrood Spirit Entities (pp. 489-495). Such
powers do not invoke Paradox, thanks to the
intrinsic — if otherworldly — bond between
spirits and the natural world. Although clearly paranormal,
spirit Charms tap into a deeper, more elemental aspect of
reality than human magick does. And while it is, in many
ways, far more limited in flexibility than Sphere magick, this
spiritual energy invokes forces more primordial than humanity
and more sublime than the richest magickal Arts.
As manifestations of the spirit's intrinsic self, all Charms
depend upon the essential nature of the spirit. A fire elemen-
tal, for example, won't have the Create Water Charm, and
a forest-spirit won't be able to Jack In to electronic devices.
Minor spirits possess five Charms or less, while greater spirits
command commensurately greater powers. Certain refined
spirits might use Sphere-like powers too (as detailed in Mage
20, p. 490), but that sort of might is reserved for god-forms
and the mightiest of lesser entities.

Purchasing Charms
Normally, such powers are beyond the reach of player
characters. Under certain circumstances, however, a Storyteller
might allow an embodied ephemeral character who's created
and run by a player. This is choice, of course, an optional rule,
and the Storyteller is perfectly within her rights to refuse. For
details, see the "Familiar" entry under "Companion Types," pp. 184-185.
Familiar characters may purchase Charms with freebie
points for a cost of one freebie point for each point of Essence
that needs to be spent in order to activate that Charm. A
Charm that requires three points to activate, for example,
costs three freebie points to purchase.
If the character does not have to spend Essence to ac-
tivate the Charm, if the Charm has a variable Essence cost,
if it deals with luck or enduring illusions, or if that Charm
is considered to be "always on," then the Charm costs five
freebie points to purchase. The exception to this rule is the
Airt Sense Charm (Mage 20, p. 490), which is free to any
ephemeral spirit character.
In addition to the Charms given in Mage 20, ephemeral
characters might employ the following Charms, if the Charms
in question suit their nature. That suitability, in all cases, is
essential. Although a demon might possess a Charm that lets
him heal people, a reanimated corpse is not likely to possess
such powers.

We don't have a good baseline on how to build a pure spirit (what amounts of freebie points to use, etc), so let's work backwards from Arcana 5 dot Holden's rules:
• All Attributes begin at 1 dot, save those in primary category, which begin at 2.
• Rank categories of Attributes (Physical, Social, Mental) in order of importance to the Arcana's
role.
• Divide 7 dots among primary Attributes, 5 dots among secondary Attributes, and 3 dots among
tertiary Attributes.
• Attributes in primary category can be raised to 7.
• All Abilities begin at 0 dots.
• Rank categories of Abilities (Talents, Skills, Knowledges) in order of importance to the
Arcana's function.
• Divide 13 dots among primary Abilities, 9 dots among secondary Abilities, and 5 dots among
tertiary Abilities.
• No Ability can have more than 3 points without spending Freebie Points.
• Record Willpower (5) and Backgrounds (0).
• Record Health Track (Bruised x 2, Hurt, Injured Wounded, Mauled, Crippled, Incapacitated —
an extra Bruised level).
• Select 6 Arcana Features.
• Spend Freebie Points (15), and, optionally, purchase Merits and Flaws (max. 7 points).
And decompose those points back into a free-floating freebie point pool, as per the freebie point spending table
Trait Cost (per dot)
Attribute 5
Ability 2
Backgrounds 2
Willpower 1
Arcana Feature 7
Divided by 2 rounded down, like Horror arcanas can do with their social traits. We'll leave willpower and ability points where they are, since those are actually applicable. This gives us:
((2*3+1*3+1*3+7+5+3)*5+6*7)/2+15=103 freebie points. That's a large amount, but not ridiculously large, I feel.

Per W20 (the only place I was able to find it), 1 freebie point buys you 2 dots of Gnosis, and 1 dot of Rage.

This shakes out as a following build:

Willpower (10 dots): ●●●●●●●●●● (5 base, 5 freebie points)
Rage (10 dots): ●●●●●●●●●● (10 Freebie points)
Gnosis (10 dots): ●●●●●●●●●● (5 freebie points)
Essence (30 dots): ●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●● (it's also spirit's health track, by the way).

TALENTS (primary+2*10 freebie points)SKILLS (secondary)KNOWLEDGES (tetriary+2*5 freebie points)
Alertness ●●●●●
Animal Ken ●○○○○Academics ●●○○○
Athletics ○○○○○Crafts ●○○○○Computer ○○○○○
Awareness ●●●●●Drive ●○○○○Finance ●●○○○
Brawl ○○○○○Etiquette ●○○○○Investigation ○○○○○
Empathy ●●●○○
Firearms ●●○○○Law ●●○○○
Expression ●●○○○Larceny ●○○○○Medicine ○○○○○
Intimidation ●●○○○Melee ○○○○○Occult ●●○○○
Leadership ○○○○○Performance ●○○○○Politics ●●○○○
Streetwise ●●●●●Stealth ○○○○○Science ○○○○○
Subterfuge ●○○○○Survival ●○○○○Technology ○○○○○

All changelings have some vision of their path, but you've a
special commitment to it. You don't concern yourself with petty
matters, because your higher purpose is everything. Though you
sometimes behave in ways contrary to the needs of survival,
your purpose grants you great personal strength. The difficulty
of any roll that has something to do with this higher purpose is
reduced by two. Decide what your higher purpose is, and make
sure you discuss it with the Storyteller.
You've a large pool of miscellaneous skills and knowledge
obtained through extensive travels, the jobs you've held, or
all-around know-how. You automatically have one dot in all
Skill and Knowledge Dice Pools. This is an illusory level, used
to simulate a wide range of abilities. If you spend experience in
any untrained Skill or Knowledge, you must still pay the point
cost for the first level.

Ephemeral entities flock to your presence. The essence of
who you are – benign or malignant – draws spirits to you, and
they, in turn, affect the essence of who you are. For the most
part, these entities cluster around you in the Penumbra, invisible
to mortal perceptions; whenever you cross the Gauntlet, though
(either with your perceptions or with your body), they're waiting
for you there. Spirits that can manifest physical forms may come
across the Gauntlet to visit you, and those that cannot take on
physical bodies still energize the spiritual atmosphere in your
vicinity. Whether or not this is a good thing for you depends
upon whether you select this Trait as a Merit or a Flaw:
• The Merit form of Spirit Magnet draws generally benev-
olent spirits – Naturae, Lunes, totem and animal entities
of the gentler variety, and so on. These spirits protect
you from malignant entities, warn you of impending
danger, offer advice, help you out when you visit the
Otherworlds, and generally make your life easier. Folks
who can sense those spirits (mediums, shamans, med-
icine-folk, werecreatures, etc.) tend to favor you; after
all, if the better sorts of spirits like you, then you must
be someone worth knowing.
• The Flaw version represents the presence of malevo-
lent spirits – Banes, demons, and other nasty Umbral
beasts. Summoned by curses or spiritual corruption,
these entities seek to tempt you, poison you, feed
off your vitality, and otherwise turn your life into a
self-contained Hell On Wheels. Spirit-sensitive folk
will avoid you unless they're into that sort of thing,
and werewolves will consider you to be "of the Wyrm"
(whatever the hell that means), if only because of the
company you keep. Although you might not consider
yourself a bad person at heart, your spiritual compan-
ions say otherwise!
The value of this Merit of Flaw is, as always, based on how
helpful or troublesome the spirits can be, how powerful they are,
and how many of them you have to deal with when they appear.
• (3 points) Minor entities occasionally offer aid or
hindrance.
• (4 points) Minor entities show up frequently, or in small
numbers.
• (5 points) Minor entities surround you often, whether
you want them to or not, and more potent ones have
taken interest in your existence.
• (6 points) You have the interest of one or two entities
of significance, and plenty of minor ones pay great
attention to you.
• (7 points) You're never alone, even when you probably
wish you could be.
This spiritual companionship could be directly opposed
to your true nature. A really awful person might attract be-
nevolent entities who want to save her, while a veritable St.
Anthony could be plagued with demons intent on fucking up
his soul. Even so, such constant presence does have an effect
on your overall health. Mind, body, and spirit are interwoven
whether we want to recognize that or not, and a mortal who
attracts Otherworldly entities has got something unusual going
on under the skin.
Your magick, perhaps your very soul, resides outside of your
physical self. Maybe you've placed your soul within a ring, a jar,
or a wooden doll in order to protect yourself from possession and
control. Or perhaps you believe that your wand, not your Will,
is the source of your mystic powers. You could have built a robot
as an extension of your Genius, or crafted a jacket into which
you've instilled the very essence of who you are. The receptacle
itself is not important except with regards to its portability. This
Flaw reflects the fact that you must have the receptacle before you
can employ your Arts. Without it, you're just another Sleeper.
Linguistically, phylactery comes from a Greek root meaning
"to guard." In many forms of classical magick, practitioners
would place their souls or life-force within amulets, either as
protection for their souls or as portable vessels for spellwork.
Orthodox Jews sometimes employ tefillin – often referred to as
phylacteries – as reminders of their covenant with God. As a
Mage Trait, your Phylactery serves as a container for the "inner
god" that allows a mage to change reality: the Awakened Avatar.
How your character views this relationship between the
container, his Awakened self, and the ability to perform magick
depends on the character's paradigm. A Slavic witch could believe
that she has taken her heart and placed it into a hardboiled egg;
a mad scientist may use consciousness-transposing co-location
theory in order to secure his brilliance in a vat-held brain. The
shapechanging shaman invests her soul into a wolf-skin, while
a Hermetic magus employs Roman rituals to lock his immortal
essence into a golden staff. Your phylactery is probably an item,
but it could conceivably be a location (a grove, a garden, a house,
etc.) or living being (a child, a bird, a tree, a manufactured in-
telligence housed within a mainframe, and so forth). The key is
this: Your mage must be able to physically access the phylactery in order
to employ Sphere magick. And therein lays the Flaw.
All told, a phylactery offers a few powerful benefits in ex-
change for some pretty significant drawbacks. On the plus side:
• A phylactery allows you to preserve a part of your con-
sciousness outside your mortal body. That body may
be destroyed, but your soul and consciousness live on
until or unless the phylactery is destroyed. With Mind
4, you can project that consciousness into another body
or an astral form, while a character with Mind 5 /Spirit
5 can place your Awakened consciousness into a new
body for you.
• If the phylactery is taken from you, or you're taken away
from it, you can retrieve it, or return to it, with a successful
application of the Correspondence Sphere. The difficulty
for this return Effect is 4 if the return would seem coinci-
dental to a witness, 5 if it's vulgar without witnesses, and 6
if it's vulgar with witnesses. (Yes, the usual Paradox applies.)
• A living phylactery retains a psychic bond with you, as if
you're in constant empathic and telepathic contact with
that character. (No roll necessary.) If the phylactery is a
place, then you retain an awareness of that place, and
can check in with it by using Perception + Awareness,
difficulty 6. (For very large areas, the check-in difficulty
may range from 7 to 10.)
• With the addition of the Merit:
"Immortal"
at the
seven-point level, your physical body may continue
to survive until the phylactery is destroyed… which, if
you don't mind going without your magick for a while,
could render you more or less immune to death if
you then hide your phylactery away in a safe location.
Traditionally speaking, that's why many mages make
phylacteries in the first place: to preserve their mortal
lives indefinitely.
• So long as your phylactery remains safe and undamaged,
you remain immune to Gilgul and other soul-trapping
attacks. Your body may be possessed, but your soul
cannot be stolen or destroyed unless someone attacks
your phylactery instead… in which case you're screwed,
as described below. For details about Gilgul, see that
entry in Chapter Four, pp. 218-220.
• And if you invest your soul into a place, you literally carry
the essence of that place within yourself, while a part of
you always remains there. For practitioners of certain an-
cestral forms of magic (or simply for hardcore romantics),
that's a very powerful reason to do such a thing.
Those are the good points. The downsides are as follows:
• If the phylactery gets destroyed, your ability to use magick
in this life gets destroyed along with it.
• You cannot perform magick or recharge your Avatar
unless you have some form of physical connection to
your phylactery. That form could involve a physical
gateway to virtual contact, as with a computer that
accesses a mainframe, but you still need that gateway
in order to reach a distant phylactery. (Yes, you may use
Correspondence Sphere magick to reach the phylactery,
and you are always counted as being one success away
from your phylactery when you use Correspondence to
reach out to it.)
• If your phylactery is a place, you must be in that place
in order to employ the Spheres. If it's a living thing,
then that character has got to be within touching range
before you can use the Spheres. (Explains a lot about
Blofeld and his cat, doesn't it?)
• If you're using your phylactery to cast magick, you need
to be rather obvious about it – shouting commands to
your hypertech robot pal, holding your mystic crown aloft,
hewing your demonic sword through enemies as you shout
invocations to your patron god, that sort of thing.
• If your Avatar communicates to you through an embod-
ied phylactery character, then you need to purchase the
Merit: Manifest Avatar (p. 71) to represent the Avatar's
physical form.
If your phylactery is an item, then it's considered a
unique personalized instrument , as per the rules in Mage 20,
pp. 587-588. It can be broken, stolen or repaired, but
cannot be replaced if it's totally destroyed.
Creating a phylactery of this sort demands high-level magick
– Correspondence 5 /Prime 5 /Spirit 5 /Mind 4 to be exact,
plus Matter 4 to invest one's self into a material item, Life 5
to invest it into a living thing, and Life 5 /Matter 4 in order
to instill it into a place with an active biosphere – a forest or
lake, as opposed to a bare room or large metal box.
(A previous description of the phylactery investment ritual,
given in the sourcebook Dead Magic, p. 112, stated that only
Spirit 3 was necessary for investment; by the rules, however,
this claim is incorrect. You need Correspondence 5 to forge
so powerful a connection, Prime 5 to invest that intimate a
degree of vital energy, Spirit 5 to bind the Awakened Avatar
spirit into a separate place or being, and Mind 4 to project an
aspect of consciousness out of the body and into a separate
vessel. Spirit 3 alone does none of these things.)
Unless your mage is already a Master of the appropriate
Spheres, this Flaw assumes that some stronger power invested
(or trapped) your Avatar and consciousness into that phylactery
for you. According to some practices, a magical practitioner
must create a phylactery in order to use their most potent Arts;
although that's not true in the greater scheme of Mage, that
doesn't mean people don't still believe that it is.
Uncanny radiance surrounds you. Perhaps you shimmer
with holiness, reek of death, smolder with the essence of the
Pit, or otherwise reveal an affinity for a given element through
your very presence. The specifics depend upon the sort of
creature you are and the essential nature of your true self: An
infernal entity projects an unholy aura (scent of brimstone,
unnerving chorus of damned-soul voices, and so forth), an
elemental conjures phenomena related to its home element
(breeze, flickering flames, dampness, blooming plants, that
sort of thing), an embodiment of technological principles
radiates cold perfection… you get the idea.
As an Advantage, this Aura ripples the localized environ-
ment surrounding the entity in question. It doesn't inflict
damage upon the area or on characters within that area, but
it can be rather unnerving to folks who have reason to fear
such entities. People and entities opposed to the nature of
this creature (like demons in the presence of an angel, or vice
versa) feel compelled to flee unless they spend a Willpower
point to remain in the aura-bearer's vicinity; if they stay,
such creatures suffer a +3 addition to the difficulty of all
rolls they make against the character who radiates the Aura.
More neutral characters, meanwhile, can't help but notice the
pervasive effects of this entity: withering or flourishing plant-
life, shining light or glowering darkness, faint music, metallic
clanging, or a buzz of flies, and other similarly environmental
effects. While those effects won't influence system modifiers,
they speak volumes — for good and ill — about the nature of
the entity in question. The character can spend a point of
Willpower to suppress the Advantage for one scene, at which
point, a witness needs to make a successful Awareness roll,
difficulty 7, to discern the character's true nature. Otherwise,
the Aura manifests as a matter of course, without any form
of "activation" required or any duration set on the length
of its effects.
As a Flaw, this Trait cannot be suppressed. The Aura
betrays the character's nature whether he wants it to be
obvious or not.
A bond with your surroundings helps you perceive trouble
and respond to possible threats. Rules-wise, this Advantage
reduces the difficulty of your perception rolls by -2 if you're
trying to spot potential trouble. Maybe your keen senses help
you hear, smell, feel, or otherwise perceive trespassers; perhaps
you've got passive sonar or high-tech scanning devices. Maybe
the wind speaks to you. Whatever the reason, you're seldom
surprised by anything that's not teleported to your location,
stepping in from the Umbra, or otherwise using unusual
methods to surprise you.
Thanks to sophisticated tech or godlike knowledge,
you can understand and communicate in any language you
encounter. If you've never encountered a particular form of
communication before, you'll need to make an Intelligence +
Empathy roll in order to puzzle it out. The difficulty for this roll
is generally 6 but could go as high as 9 if you're trying to sort
out an especially arcane language, like the waving fronds of a
plant-spirit or the shifting colors of an alien species' body hair.
To translate a language, you must first be able to perceive it
as a language. Telepathic communications or subtle symbolic
codes are beyond you unless you're able to recognize them for
what they are. Your understanding, too, tends to be literal
unless you've had enough contact with your subjects to rec-
ognize their slang, sarcasm, cultural references, and so forth.
Revealing itself in an immaterial form, an entity
can use this Charm to manifest on the physical side of
the Gauntlet, unable to touch but also immune from
being touched. Doing so costs 10 Essence when the spirit
appears in a high-Gauntlet area, although it may cost fewer
points (Storyteller's option) in places or circumstances
with especially low Gauntlet ratings (3 or less).
By spending two points of Essence, the spirit
gains a dice pool equal to its Gnosis rating; that soak
pool applies to bashing and lethal damage. For one
additional point per die, the Armor Charm may protect
against aggravated damage too. Either way, the protection
lasts until the end of the scene in which it is invoked.
The spirit may invoke its armor at any point before an
attacker rolls her damage against the spirit.
An all-purpose attack Charm, this power projects
damaging energies against the spirit's opponents. Those
energies cost one Essence per die of bashing damage,
two Essence per die of lethal damage, and three Essence
per die of aggravated damage.
(For a deadlier option, the spirit may simply spend a point
of Essence and roll the spirit's Rage as aggravated damage,
as seen in Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20 th Anniversary
Edition. As noted above, however, this option may be too
lethal for Mage chronicles.)
Whatever type of damage it inflicts, the form of the Blast
depends on the nature of the spirit; a fire elemental could
breathe flame, a frost spirit might spin frost, a shrieking
horror from beyond space might warp its target's bones,
and so forth. The spirit does not need to hit, and the attack
cannot be dodged, although the Spirit Sphere can be used
as countermagick against the Blast.
As a rough guide to range, assume that this Charm can
reach one yard for each point of Essence in the spirit's
permanent Essence Trait. An Essence 20 entity, then,
could Blast an opponent from up to 20 yards away.
Spending Essence does not decrease this range; that
same entity could still Blast its opponent from 20 yards
away even when its Essence has dropped to 5.
Engaging its bond with
technology, an electricity elemental or spirit of electrical
tech can seize control of an electric device and run it
according to the spirit's desires. The Storyteller rolls
the spirit's Gnosis against a difficulty based upon the
complexity of the machine or system – from 3 to control
light bulbs to 9 to control a HIT Mark or cybernetic gear.
The Essence cost likewise depends upon the sophistication
of the device, from one Essence to control simple objects
to five Essence to command complex machinery.
By deciding upon a single, specific course of action
(guard this place, watch this child, find this book, and so forth), a
spirit may invoke this Charm and add five extra dice to any
roll that helps it meet that purpose or resist being driven
away from the task. Costs one Essence per hour.
This Charm allows a spirit to assume
physical shape in the material world… a dangerous thing,
especially in the age of machine-gun fire. To do so, the
spirit's Gnosis must be higher than the local Gauntlet
rating. Once materialized, the spirit can go wherever
it wants to go, provided that the local Gauntlet rating
is no higher than the spirit's Gnosis -2, and assuming
that no one has bound that spirit in a mystic pentacle
or hypertech spirit cage (in game terms, a Spirit 4 Effect;
see the Spirit Sphere entry in Chapter Ten.) If the entity
gets killed in the material realm, its form is dispersed and
the spirit winds up banished to the Umbra in Slumber,
as if its Essence had been dispersed in the spirit realm.
Under the old World of Darkness rules, a materialized
spirit had to buy its Physical Attributes, health levels,
and Abilities per the chart below. (A materialized spirit
still uses its Gnosis for Social and Mental Attributes.)
This approach allows a spirit to expand its capabilities,
so long as it has enough Essence to do so. Alternately,
the spirit can simply manifest and use its Willpower,
Rage, Gnosis, and Essence as usual, without bothering
to generate Attributes and Abilities, as per Werewolf:
The Apocalypse 20 th Anniversary Edition. In that case,
however, the spirit remains bound to a single form in the
Earthly realm and cannot adjust its size or capabilities. The
spirits in Appendix I have been built using the physical
forms suggested by the older rules.
Typically, a spirit soaks damage with its Willpower Trait, plus
the Armor Charm if it has that power. When a materialized
spirit gets hit, however, the Stamina Trait (plus armor)
soaks damage if that Trait is higher than Willpower. To a
materialized spirit entity, bashing, lethal, and aggravated
damage are essentially the same – all three drain Essence
points if they manage to inflict damage against the spirit's
body. If that spirit takes damage, its materialized health levels
absorb the damage first; once those health levels are gone,
the spirit can take up to five more health levels in damage
before its Essence dissipates back into the Umbra. Whether
or not the dead materialized husk remains behind after
the spirit's Essence has departed is a Storyteller call. Given
the long histories of "demon's blood," "angel feathers,"
and "dead alien bodies," however, tradition suggests that
a corpse should remain behind.
In a flash, a powerful spirit can appear any
place it has personally visited, or else vanish from one
location and manifest in another (again, familiar) one.
This power costs 10 Essence to employ, or 20 Essence
if the spirit wants to take someone else with it. Each
act of teleportation costs the appropriate amount of
Essence, and the Charm can cross the Gauntlet with
ease, assuming the spirit already has the ability to do so.

Let's compare the two builds:
categoryEmanation ArcanaSpirit
attack15 attack dice, 11 lethal damage dice, melee only (doesn't have native ranged option)10 attack dice, 10 lethal (or aggravated at Storyteller's decision) damage dice, non-magical armor is ignored
Native blast ability (see spirit charms section)
Soak10, soaks bashing and lethal damage at DC 6 (5 for stone weapons), aggravated at DC 7 (6 for stone weapons)10 + 10 bashing and lethal soak for 2 essence motes (or up to 10 agg. soak for 2 + dice amount motes).
Non-magical damage is completely ignored unless the spirit is materialized (normal mortals can't touch it)
Willpower10 dots, acts as an energy pool for Hedge Magic10 dots
Health levels0/0//-1//-2//-3//-4//-5//Inc30 motes of Essence, which is also an energy pool to use spirit charms
dice adders+ 5 dice to anything done in pursuit of a set goal for 1 mote per hour
DC adjusters+3 DC to all enemy actions against the Spirit
-2 DC for the purposes of protecting Chicago
-2 DC when they're trying to make an impression that's in accord with their station as god of Chicago
+3 DC to all enemy actions against the Spirit, unless aura is suppressed
-2 DC for trying to spot potential trouble
-2 DC for the purposes of protecting Chicago
MagicIs capable of learning path magicHas access to spirit charms, I would argue that Exigent of Cities charms from ExvsWoD book should also be open to them
Special featuresNormally exists in NeverNever, manifests for a scene for 1 WP anywhere within 100 yards from their keystone. If the keystone is Chicago itself, that's city-wide teleportation
If killed, reforms in 100 years, or faster if fed essence
Streetwise if a favored ability
Has oracular ability
Natural flight in NeverNever
Ignores mundane weapons and matter, unless materialized
Has minor helpful spirits following them around
Can understand all languages spoken in Chicago, and make a roll to understand any other language
Immortal, unless Chicago is destroyed

Overall, the spirit build is far more powerful. In fact, I would say it's on a proper god scale for proper exalted game, I think. I am also tempted to argue that Exigent of Cities from ExvsWoD: revised book charms are very appropriate for a City God to have in some way, either from the start, or to develop them as the god grows.
 
If it was about language, you'd stick to teaching them Spanish.
Or Mandarin. Or French.
Even Brass Courts Common, which is largely useless to her mundane life, at least isnt a cognitohazard.
Primordial is not a cognitohazard, and never has been. And is objectively a better communication tool than any other language.
1) A Coin of one of the Thirty is in itself a pretty potent magical influence that you have to choose to pick up.
Oh, just fuck off right here. Toddlers can't make choices that would damn them, if there are any sort of sane protections. That's not how mental development works at all.
 
The actual point I was making there about your comment was the knowing Yog part despite them never advocating for that despite the fact we've had the charm for I don't know how long now
I'm not going to discuss the above because I'm going to sleep and I'm not going to change your opinion just like you're not going to change mine, because this is all very personal opinion.

But this is not the first time that Yog has raised the possibility of teaching Amanada the Primordial Language (it is the second or third), and everyone has seen the exact same arguments for and against with the same people being the main arguers, uju and yog. I'm not interested in seeing that dance again.
 
I'm not going to discuss the above because I'm going to sleep and I'm not going to change your opinion just like you're not going to change mine, because this is all very personal opinion.

But this is not the first time that Yog has raised the possibility of teaching Amanada the Primordial Language (it is the second or third), and everyone has seen the exact same arguments for and against with the same people being the main arguers, uju and yog. I'm not interested in seeing that dance again.
I was talking about teaching other people or the general mass of humanity not just the baby we've had the baby conversation extensively and to be frank I'm also not particularly interested in retreading it.
 
General notes: because Tiffany is participating, I am setting all physical and mental attributes to 10, while converting normal attribute building points into freebie points (3+5+3+3=14*5/2=35 freebie points). The argument for Tiffany being able to craft non-flesh flesh is her own body, which, I remind you, is a clay and metal golem magically transformed into flesh-like substance. This gives 50 total freebie points to start with (15+35=50).
That's not how that should work, she can't just flesh-craft on spirits like that.

Herself being an exception, not a rule.
 
That's not how that should work, she can't just flesh-craft on spirits like that.

Herself being an exception, not a rule.
Kinda sorta? I mean, my argument is that she could participate in the design, maybe? Yeah, to be honest, I know this is mostly BS. Otherwise Arcana build is really underpowered compared to Spirit build, and I don't feel it represents a major narrative-level working on making a city spirit/god that is capable of meaningfully affecting / defending the whole city. Like, I feel the power level should be something that is capable of fending off the Kakuri war party by itself.
 
Kinda sorta? I mean, my argument is that she could participate in the design, maybe? Yeah, to be honest, I know this is mostly BS. Otherwise Arcana build is really underpowered compared to Spirit build, and I don't feel it represents a major narrative-level working on making a city spirit/god that is capable of meaningfully affecting / defending the whole city. Like, I feel the power level should be something that is capable of fending off the Kakuri war party by itself.
Spirit builds aren't particularly powerful.

Firstly, because they only roll one stat, WP, Gnosis or Rage. They have no skills at all, you have to judge which of their stats to apply case-by-case.
Also their power-fuel is also their health, so once things get dicey they go down fast.

Edit: And Aura only works against things that are by nature opposed to the being with the Aura.
So for a City-God the only beings that suffer from it might be Nature-Spirits, or maybe the Bigfoot-people from DF, you know anti-city things.
 
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Spirit builds aren't particularly powerful.

Firstly, because they only roll one stat, WP, Gnosis or Rage. They have no skills at all, you have to judge which of their stats to apply case-by-case.
Also their power-fuel is also their health, so once things get dicey they go down fast.
They have all three stats. That's very clear in the rules. Essence = wp + gnosis + rage rule leaves no other room for interpretation. They attack with willpower and roll damage (lethal or agg up to Storyteller's choise) with rage, that's direct quotes (see above). They flat out ignore mundane armor and attacks. Their health/energy pool goes up to 30 or 50, depending on the rules you are using. The thing I built would murderblend everyone in our circle save Molly herself, possibly at the same time. The thing rolls 15 + ability dice at -2 DC for everything to do with protecting Chicago at the cost of 1 essence per hour. It essentially has omni excellency.

In a combat situation, when protecting Chicago, it would roll 15 dice to attack at dc4, and then 15 dice to damage, also with -2 DC. the attack is either lethal or aggravated and completely ignores mundane armor.

To soak it would roll 15 dice at -2 DC, and by spending 2 essence, 25 dice.
 
They have all three stats. That's very clear in the rules. Essence = wp + gnosis + rage rule leaves no other room for interpretation. They attack with willpower and roll damage (lethal or agg up to Storyteller's choise) with rage, that's direct quotes (see above).
Yes.
But a creature with 1-10 in Attributes and 1-10 skills can obviously get better than a Spirit with only WP, Gnosis and Rage, which are never added together.

They flat out ignore mundane armor and attacks.
Only while dematerialized, which makes them harmless.
It's a good option to escape, or avoid fights, but not a relevant trick within combat.

he thing rolls 15 + ability dice at -2 DC for everything to do with protecting Chicago at the cost of 1 essence per hour. It essentially has omni excellency.
No it just rules 10 (or 15 with the boost), with no added ability.

Also that Changeling-Merit is absolutely incredibly overpowered for 1 Point, if you apply it to something that broad.
You should definitely either not use it (because it's a Changeling Merit) or find a much narrower application, rather than use it as -2 DC for everything.
 
They have all three stats. That's very clear in the rules. Essence = wp + gnosis + rage rule leaves no other room for interpretation. They attack with willpower and roll damage (lethal or agg up to Storyteller's choise) with rage, that's direct quotes (see above). They flat out ignore mundane armor and attacks. Their health/energy pool goes up to 30 or 50, depending on the rules you are using. The thing I built would murderblend everyone in our circle save Molly herself, possibly at the same time. The thing rolls 15 + ability dice at -2 DC for everything to do with protecting Chicago at the cost of 1 essence per hour. It essentially has omni excellency.

In a combat situation, when protecting Chicago, it would roll 15 dice to attack at dc4, and then 15 dice to damage, also with -2 DC. the attack is either lethal or aggravated and completely ignores mundane armor.

To soak it would roll 15 dice at -2 DC, and by spending 2 essence, 25 dice.
I actually fully understand what you're talking about but it seems like it should be a hybrid situation because we make exalted style Gods Not world of Darkness gods or I guess Spirits in that instance.

The Werewolves are absent so far in this continuity the closest thing we've seen to them are broken Seekers puppets and they're not the real thing I don't think we've encountered anything with a gnosis rating yet either. So it seems like for a proper City God we would use an Emanation stat block with an Essence rating and charms like Essence plethora that regular gods in exalted have to make up the difference rather than use a rage + gnosis mix not to mention the fact that Gaia, the world of Darkness gaia is almost certainly not present and gnosis is her energy or very least completely symbolic of connection to her and no God would create would have that.

It also feels like if we made like a pure Spirit he would get banished from reality or would just be killable anyway despite being a pure spirit because it's like made in the style of the old gods and the White God's decree would make it so by being in the mortal world it could be killed anyway.
 
The Werewolves are absent so far in this continuity the closest thing we've seen to them are broken Seekers puppets and they're not the real thing I don't think we've encountered anything with a gnosis rating yet either.
Minor things.

The god-images that the Ra Statue manifests are mechanically spirits.
Also Broken Seeker has a Gnosis score since he's build as an overpowered Werewolf with some Wizard-magic thrown in.
 
Minor things.

The god-images that the Ra Statue manifests are mechanically spirits.
Also Broken Seeker has a Gnosis score since he's build as an overpowered Werewolf with some Wizard-magic thrown in.
I did not know that thank you. So broken Seeker had gnosis on top Mage spheres that's amazingly fucking crazy I love and hate that love it from a mechanical perspective hate it from a fuck why oh why give a nightmare that much power why God please no. The God-images were also Spirits okay then I've got nothing so I guess the idea that we make exalted gods and they have attributes and abilities on top of having essence they just had a lot more Essence and weaker charms and not as much ability to grow both in essence and abilities and attributes to the point where I think some of them were governed by each other but I'd have to look back in some second edition books to find out.
 
Yes.
But a creature with 1-10 in Attributes and 1-10 skills can obviously get better than a Spirit with only WP, Gnosis and Rage, which are never added together.
Attributes and abilities normally only go in to 5, though. So it's at last as good as the best theoretical human at everything.

Only while dematerialized, which makes them harmless.
It's a good option to escape, or avoid fights, but not a relevant trick within combat.
As far as I can tell, spirits do not need to materialize to attack, and inflict spiritual damage.

No it just rules 10 (or 15 with the boost), with no added ability.

Also that Changeling-Merit is absolutely incredibly overpowered for 1 Point, if you apply it to something that broad.
You should definitely either not use it (because it's a Changeling Merit) or find a much narrower application, rather than use it as -2 DC for everything.
As far as I can tell, that's wrong. You use wp/rage/gnosis in place of an attribute, and ability normally.

For higher purpose somewhat agreed, but it's thw core function of the spirit, so I think it's appropriate.
I actually fully understand what you're talking about but it seems like it should be a hybrid situation because we make exalted style Gods Not world of Darkness gods or I guess Spirits in that instance.

The Werewolves are absent so far in this continuity the closest thing we've seen to them are broken Seekers puppets and they're not the real thing I don't think we've encountered anything with a gnosis rating yet either. So it seems like for a proper City God we would use an Emanation stat block with an Essence rating and charms like Essence plethora that regular gods in exalted have to make up the difference rather than use a rage + gnosis mix not to mention the fact that Gaia, the world of Darkness gaia is almost certainly not present and gnosis is her energy or very least completely symbolic of connection to her and no God would create would have that.

It also feels like if we made like a pure Spirit he would get banished from reality or would just be killable anyway despite being a pure spirit because it's like made in the style of the old gods and the White God's decree would make it so by being in the mortal world it could be killed anyway.
I think a possible, if absurd, solution, would be to work backwards mechanically. Take canon Exigent of Cities, and slap Phantasm(Emanation) trait on top of it as a special feature. Maybe buff essence pool too.
 
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