Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[Nyarky]

You do indeed have IPP which works by reflexively burning motes or willpower, both of which are finite resources. If someone could say sit in a ritual chamber two hundred miles away and fling curses at you a a dozen times in quick succession while their friends are taking you on in person, that is a problem from a tactical PoV.

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But it isn't an instant loss, which was the reaction that people indicated.

If they try that, we can still do things to counter, and they first have to realize we can even run empty, which has never been the case till now.

Edit:

Also, two hundred miles is not that far given how fast we can actually travel, we have demonstrated that more than once.

 

[DragonParadox]

Mind it is not as though throwing a dozen distinct curses at you is something any petty mage, or for that matter skilled wizard can do. They would have to be distinct or else the scene-long immunity would kick in so you would need someone with a very broad skill at black magic to perform the cursing.

But it isn't an instant loss, which was the reaction that people indicated.

If they try that, we can still do things to counter, and they first have to realize we can even run empty, which has never been the case till now.

Edit:

Also, two hundred miles is not that far given how fast we can actually travel, we have demonstrated that more than once.

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People skilled enough at cursing to throw a dozen curses at you are likely skilled enough to realize you can run empty. Remember by current magical rules you are running very hot. What Molly is doing looks power intensive and they can actually feel the slow and steady pressure of your exaltation pulling the thin magic from the air if they are close enough.

 

[TheGrape]

Yeah, the best part about clones, the safety net and the multi-tasking, can both be accomplished by leaving them in the FCOF where they're safe.

Even if we let them loose in the world, nobody else knows just how strong they are until they get in a fight, and they won't know if it's a clone or actual Molly since she can hide her aura perfectly.

 

[fictionfan]

[X] Create "Hugger of loved ones"

 

[Yzarc]

Mind it is not as though throwing a dozen distinct curses at you is something any petty mage, or for that matter skilled wizard can do. They would have to be distinct or else the scene-long immunity would kick in so you would need someone with a very broad skill at black magic to perform the cursing.

People skilled enough at cursing to throw a dozen curses at you are likely skilled enough to realize you can run empty. Remember by current magical rules you are running very hot. What Molly is doing looks power intensive and they can actually feel the slow and steady pressure of your exaltation pulling the thin magic from the air if they are close enough.

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Here is the relevant part.

Once named facets may be embodied or dispelled with a thought, supposing they aren't currently destroyed and are in the infernal's presence, but she must pay 1 mote to copy over any memories directly.

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Key word dispelled with a thought. Freely, though needs 1 Essence to copy memories. So it is not as if they can be kidnapped willy nilly. The moment something stinks, we can dispell them and anti-shape the first few curses.

 

[Zoolimar]

But the clones disintegrate on death ?

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I bet you can work around it if you have a wizard or equivalent.

 

[DragonParadox]

Here is the relevant part.


Key word dispelled with a thought. Freely, though needs 1 Essence to copy memories. So it is not as if they can be kidnapped willy nilly. The moment something stinks, we can dispell them and anti-shape the first few curses.

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Note the clones cannot dispel themselves and simply killing them will leave a body that can be used.

[X] Create "Hugger of loved ones"

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...You do realize that Molly's love of horror movies will have that one take the name Facehugger?

 

[fictionfan]

"I can never see my daughter again can I, not all of you, not really. Puppets, shadows on the wall.... What did he do? What did he DO?"

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Whatever the vote I feel like we should include the stunt
[Stunt]"Nobody gets to do that. Every soul contains multitudes. Potentials unrealized and faces circumstantial. I am just able to realize far more potential and you actually get to meet more of my multitudes. Well I only get to see the single shadow you cast against the wall even if my eyes are very sharp."

 

[TheGrape]

Again, just leave the clones in the FCOF. Or better yet, show them to the world once, and then pretend to be the clone by showing up everywhere with water-teleportation, and wait for some idiot to make a move.

 

[fictionfan]

[x] Create a clone based your love of your family. She should be able to explain things.
-[x][Stunt]"Nobody gets to do that. Every soul contains multitudes. Potentials unrealized and faces circumstantial. I am just able to realize far more potential and you actually get to meet more of my multitudes. Well I only get to see the single shadow you cast against the wall even if my eyes are very sharp."

 

[Nyarky]

Again, just leave the clones in the FCOF. Or better yet, show them to the world once, and then pretend to be the clone by showing up everywhere with water-teleportation, and wait for some idiot to make a move.

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Not only is that completely missing the entire point we wanted the charm for (it was to do things with them, not to leave them in our court), but I want to point out a very important thing:

The strategy of *take something from Molly, then begin using it to launch curses at her* has always existed, and didn't spring from nothing when we obtained the clones.

If anything, the clones are a worst way to do it than the one that exist at base, as, contrary to a lock of our hair, they can defend themselves and try to warn us.

Plus, with the shaping defense able to work on mote and willpower (at least that seems to be what Dragon said), the enemy doesn't have to launch only a dozen curses at us at once, they have to launch enough to both mote tap us and remove all our willpower.

At this point, the scenario is quickly reaching *spherical cows in a vacuum* degrees of realism, they're cute, but not really a good indication of what can happen in reality.

 

[TheGrape]

I dunno about "we", but I wanted the clones as a safety net and to help multi-task. Both of which can be done in the FCOF. Maybe leaving one in Last Station, but I really wasn't planning on sending Smart Molly to Harvard with this clone.

 

[Nyarky]

I dunno about "we", but I wanted the clones as a safety net and to help multi-task. Both of which can be done in the FCOF. Maybe leaving one in Last Station, but I really wasn't planning on sending Smart Molly to Harvard with this clone.

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The main vote maker, those that tends to decide the direction the thread goes in, so the ones that matters, wanted them for actually doing things in the real world, not in FCOF.

The very first idea was exactly what Pods was made for: stop losing that much time at school.

 

[Yzarc]

Success undoes the hostile magic before it can finish affecting the Infernal, protecting her completely, and immunizes her against repeated attempts to exert the same sort of influence for the rest of the scene.

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To be fair DP, it depends on how you interpret this charm.

"attempts to exert the same sort of influence"

It can be read as immunizing from the same clone being used to launch curses as you are using the clone corpse to continuously curse Molly, whis is the same influence, as all curses are an attempt to negatively impact Molly.

Note the clones cannot dispel themselves and simply killing them will leave a body that can be used.

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That said? The Clones do not leave bodies behind.

She may have no more than her essence rating of these. If one is destroyed its body dissolves into iron wind, and the element of her soul it embodies is numbed in whatever manner is appropriate until she repeats this ritual at +1 DC to find and reform it.

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So this combined with our ability to despawn a clone by spending 1 Essence means they cannot be kidnapped or used against us. Not easily.

 

[Zoolimar]

Not easily.

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That was a given considering that Molly's clones can beat the shit out of Red Court vampires.

 

[TheGrape]

The main vote maker, those that tends to decide the direction the thread goes in, so the ones that matters, wanted them for actually doing things in the real world, not in FCOF.

The very first idea was exactly what Pods was made for: stop losing that much time at school.

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Well, glad to know I don't matter then. I bow to your superiority oh great lord. Let me know what you want done and I'll see it done.

 

[Yzarc]

That was a given considering that Molly's clones can beat the shit out of Red Court vampires.

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I mean more along the lines of an Essence roll off against the fallen who may try to block the instant despawn effect.

Something like this happened when we fought the God in Summer's place, or winter, not sure, dispelled VLE.

 

[DragonParadox]

The main vote maker, those that tends to decide the direction the thread goes in, so the ones that matters, wanted them for actually doing things in the real world, not in FCOF.

The very first idea was exactly what Pods was made for: stop losing that much time at school.

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Well, glad to know I don't matter then. I bow to your superiority oh great lord. Let me know what you want done and I'll see it done.

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Guys, as someone who has been both a 'main vote maker' in quests and 'just another voter' I can assume you those positions are far from fixed. All it really takes is a good argument in the right place to shift the vote, especially in a middling sized quest like this one. Pods was made regarding school because Molly made that low roll at the end of the last update which I interpreted as frustration with school not because I was anticipating what the vote would be regarding the clones.

I mean more along the lines of an Essence roll off against the fallen who may try to block the instant despawn effect.

Something like this happened when we fought the God in Summer's place, or winter, not sure, dispelled VLE.

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Yep. The Effects of charms can be dispelled. Essence 4 counts as Arette 8 so it's far from easy, but then again Molly does not have petty enemies these days

 

[Acolyte]

Guys we have to have some vulnerable attack surface if we want to change the world. You sometimes have to take risks if you want benefits, putting clones in the soul is a waste of our time. We already control it and can utilize mosts of its resources.

 

[Nyarky]

Guys, as someone who has been both a 'main vote maker' in quests and 'just another voter' I can assume you those positions are far from fixed. All it really takes is a good argument in the right place to shift the vote, especially in a middling sized quest like this one. Pods was made regarding school because Molly made that low roll at the end of the last update which I interpreted as frustration with school not because I was anticipating what the vote would be regarding the clones.

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But how to use the clones is a long term decision that will reiterate several times during the course of the quest.

It's a pipe dream to think that we'll never want to use them to their full capacity, instead of wasting them only using them in the courts, and once it's been done once, the ball is rolling and it is almost certain to continue thanks to the convenience it offers.

Plus, that leaves more chances for the main voters of the quest, who are pretty established at this point (just have to look at how uju just have to make a vote to instantly gain 10+ voters to see it) to bring things back on track, and from what I've seen, they mostly want to use the clones for things that aren't just in the courts.

So that's two point of failure to having them stay at sanctuary, I don't expect them to for good reasons.

 

[Alratan]

If we're worried about the clones being kidnapped, we just need to buy VEE

 

[frozenchicken]

[X] Try to reassure her that she can see you just fine, there is just more of you to go around
-[X] "Think of it like when someone moves out of home and you chat to them over video call. It's still real and meaningful, and if you feel like you're missing anything, you just wait until the weekend when they come around in person. I'm not going anywhere, and there is no part of me that is hidden from you, if you wish to see me."

 

[Yzarc]

If we're worried about the clones being kidnapped, we just need to buy VEE

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How would that help?

 

[Alratan]

How would that help?

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If you refuse a task given with VEE you get cast into Hell, the Infernal's Hell if they have one.

We can give them a task to say a word every day, and if they don't they'll be sent straight to Hell, as they will if they resolve not to say it that day, so there's an active and a passive way of triggering it.

 

[Zoolimar]

So that's two point of failure to having them stay at sanctuary, I don't expect them to for good reasons.

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There are ways to mitigate the risks - the simplest one is shuffling clones and Molly through tasks so that it is impossible to say who is who.

But there were always gonna be risk. Clones are much better protected than Molly's family members outside of her house. If someone wants to go after her better they think they can get her directly than try some underhanded bullshit like Broken Seeker. Don't forget that in canon Red King tries to kill Harry and his granpa through Harry's daughter.