Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

You keep saying this and act like the plane trip that the actual vote had wasn't a thing.
I will repeat:
We had an option to step directly from Earth into the Wicked City.
We could have gone to the city by plane and skydived to the staging point. We could have taken a stroll through the NeverNever.

Regardless, the option for direct insertion into the WoD existed.
 
I will repeat:
We had an option to step directly from Earth into the Wicked City.
We could have gone to the city by plane and skydived to the staging point. We could have taken a stroll through the NeverNever.

Regardless, the option for direct insertion into the WoD existed.
That isn't direct it's a connection multiple stage trip. You are miss using the word direct.

[X] The White Council... you're not sure who operates in Bangladesh, but they would probably use a heads up of what happened

[X] The Local Wu of the Jade Court. Nergui claims they are not the most welcoming, but they will respect power at least and he is willing to do this one last thing for you

Unlikely to get a better introduction.
 
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[X] Lilly, sure the Summer Court were doing this as a favor to you but you are sure they will appreciate

[X] The White Council... you're not sure who operates in Bangladesh, but they would probably use a heads up of what happened

[X] Library of Congress. They would probably want to know of the retaliation you carried out against MIkaboshi
 
[X] Lilly, sure the Summer Court were doing this as a favor to you but you are sure they will appreciate
 
The vote looks kinda wonky. Should've separated the multivotes by using more than one X.
Adhoc vote count started by BoredMan on May 29, 2024 at 9:38 PM, finished with 77 posts and 23 votes.
 
With multiple Senior Council members looking at him, along with hundreds of other wizards?
And not one person immobilized him, or caught the bottle, or took any of half a dozen other actions?
Spells mind-fuckery to my eyes.
I think it was shock, a deliberately ingrained hesitation to attack mortals and especially each other, with a splash of narrative handwavium. It certainly wasn't enough for more than some hesitation if that, and extrapolating that to whatever degree is you choose is arbitrary.


3)We dont have followup questions because we dont have foci.
We dont have foci because we dont have information on him; he's not a public figure, even among wizards.In canon, Molly Carpenter saw his picture and didnt know who he was after several years as an apprentice.

Handling this issue is going to require dedicated AP, both to get information on him, and to figure out what his threat is.
Probably multiple AP. I suspect we're going to have to do parallel construction from the ground up.
Possibly by looking back at White Council military disasters and backtracking from there.
that seems way more effort intensive than it needs to be just to get started. You're infantilizing the council to a ridiculous degree. Even if we do need to spend AP on it what we need is one foci to ask "what's this guy done to work against the council" and we know enough to do the job.


There is significant overlap here; supernatural politics in the Dresdenverse is a lot more personal than it is IRL.
Which is functionally irrelevant. If we personally hunt down and assault Peabody without including the council in some capacity, which pretty much all of your examples do by the way even when it's manipulative, there will be political consequences. I would rather this situation go as poorly as it did in canon than explode our relationship taking unforced errors that will make cooperation and trust even harder to maintain.

Though I maintain the wizards aren't idiot children who can only be saved by our direct efforts.

You keep bringing up the mind fuckery, but the same section of the book calls out how it had a hard time getting even limited influence over the senior council. You can't pick and choose which of the establishing facts are correct from the same source when they're equally substantiated.

Is McCoy the best possible option? Maybe not. He is what we have to work with though, and almost any option is better than completely ignoring the sovereignty of people who are supposed to be our allies. Especially since they're already worried about how good our goodwill is, our growing influence, and Peabody isn't the end of the problem.

How do you think they'll take it if we do this, and then another thing comes up where we don't include them for the same reason, or otherwise act against the black council? The politics of this matter because how this round goes will heavily influence how willingly they work with us and how much trouble we'll have with these issues going forward.


5) I dont at all agree.
The White Council claims theoretical jurisdiction over any and all mortal magic concerns; if we paid any serious respect to that shit, Cauldron would have been off-limits from the start.

Also, do remember that Corpsetaker was a White Council wizard. I think Kemmler was; dude was literally Warden of Demonreach. Grevane certainly was; Luccio thought so, at least.
Kattrin was a Valkyrie of Odin.
The white council kills talents who don't follow their rules, they don't otherwise police their lives. Which is why vampires eating some talents isn't an issue for the council on a corporate level unless they're trying to exterminate them, but eat a couple full members and see how they respond.

Kemmler was an outlaw by the time he got famous, the issue here is attacking someone with the appearance of good standing to retroactively prove he was guilty of crimes against the council without involving them. No sovereign entity is going to take that, especially when this kind of protection for "citizens" is so critical to the base membership assumption. Remember when Dresden compares getting thrown out to a priest getting defrocked, and how the point of that would be to allow them to ignore it if the red court killed him?

There can be a distinction between a random vamp attack and the red court doing something as an institution, but there wasn't in that one. Same here as well, because Molly's personally engaging as an institution to deal with issues of the same scale. It's not personal business.

The council cannot ignore us doing something like this, it has to respond to at least some degree as a matter of legitimacy. This is not a book club, it's an ancient pseudo-nation state /shadow conspiracy.


When we were planning this field trip, we were given an option to step directly into the Wicked City.
We didnt choose it then.
I suspect this was it, or close by.
We were given the option to use CCG, but were told that trying to go to the spot we wanted would be involved with the quote I cited. Maybe I misread it, but if the intent was that we couldn't go to the exact room without a really finicky connection but could have gone to the same block trivially that really should have been made more clear.

What's the point of responding to a question on getting a map and using the crown to pick the crossing point closest to our target with that whole thing with the circumstances of the crossing if not to put it in the technically possible but not practical box?
 
@DragonParadox shouldn't we have reclaimed the essence of this? After all, it's been a long time since we accepted Bob. We could also ask Lash for a secret if needed, even more essence.

Furthermore, we can easily cure both Bob and these Hunters, just kill them in our kingdom and they will regain their bodies perfectly without the "gifts" from Mikaboshi.

Indeed you should

The Wheel can handle the technician, who is mortal enough to go under them, but not the drones who are a kind of spirit incidentally bound to a mechanical chassis, someone is going to have to design them new bodies and bind them into them. Fortunately there are a lot of engineseers who would be interested in that.
 
I think it was shock, a deliberately ingrained hesitation to attack mortals and especially each other, with a splash of narrative handwavium. It certainly wasn't enough for more than some hesitation if that, and extrapolating that to whatever degree is you choose is arbitrary.
I dont agree.

I can see why you might think that way, but I dont find that a plausible argument in an organization that has been fighting (at that point) an eight year war against the Red Court and their half-vampires and mortal minions. Not under the eye of the six surviving Senior Council wizards.

Especially since less than half a page later, we were given a ringside look at the reaction speed and multitasking of the Merlin.


that seems way more effort intensive than it needs to be just to get started. You're infantilizing the council to a ridiculous degree. Even if we do need to spend AP on it what we need is one foci to ask "what's this guy done to work against the council" and we know enough to do the job.
It is not infantilizing them to point at their demonstrated canon performance and draw conclusions about their performance under similar circumstances.

It is especially not infantilizing them when the threat is an insider threat that has been embedded for more than fifteen years at this point in this AU, and has actively subverted most of the people who would normally be entrusted with dealing with this sort of thing. The immune system cant defend the body against HIV because HIV targets key cells of the immune system first.

=====
Peabody literally made Warden Captain-Commander Anastacia Luccio seduce and date Dresden so he could keep tabs on him through her. Yes, she was more vulnerable to this after swapping bodies, but she would have been under regular medical surveillance by senior people like Listens to Wind because she swapped bodies. And he did it anyway.

That speaks to horrifying things he can have done to ppl under less scrutiny.

=====
One foci wont cut it.
What he did =/= how he did it =/= what he's currently doing =/= how to defuse it. Our experience with the Crown thus far in this quest has never been such that one question unravels all the important details of a person's guilt.


Which is functionally irrelevant. If we personally hunt down and assault Peabody without including the council in some capacity, which pretty much all of your examples do by the way even when it's manipulative, there will be political consequences. I would rather this situation go as poorly as it did in canon than explode our relationship taking unforced errors that will make cooperation and trust even harder to maintain.

Though I maintain the wizards aren't idiot children who can only be saved by our direct efforts.

You keep bringing up the mind fuckery, but the same section of the book calls out how it had a hard time getting even limited influence over the senior council. You can't pick and choose which of the establishing facts are correct from the same source when they're equally substantiated.

Is McCoy the best possible option? Maybe not. He is what we have to work with though, and almost any option is better than completely ignoring the sovereignty of people who are supposed to be our allies. Especially since they're already worried about how good our goodwill is, our growing influence, and Peabody isn't the end of the problem.

How do you think they'll take it if we do this, and then another thing comes up where we don't include them for the same reason, or otherwise act against the black council? The politics of this matter because how this round goes will heavily influence how willingly they work with us and how much trouble we'll have with these issues going forward.
We're a social Exalt with social Excellencies as Key; we can deal with political consequences. We cant do fuckall about death, and it would take decades to even begin to replace wizard losses. There's a reason why enemy attacks have repeatedly targeted Council training facilities; those losses have ripple effects decades and centuries later.

In canon this affair ended up with the death of Peabody, but at the cost of fifty dead wizards, the death of Donald Morgan, a significant loss of internal faith, and with the Black Council putting their candidate on the Senior Council.
Which proximately contributed to White Council paralysis during Changes.

THATS what we are trying to avoid.

===
If your entire objection is involving the Council in some way? Thats why we have a relationship with Dresden.
He's officially a senior Warden, and this would be his responsibility. The only reason we havent read him in yet is because we have doubts about his ability to keep a poker face, else we'd ask him to look.

====
Titania actively had her assassins out to kill then senior Warden Harry Dresden during Small Favor without any worry about diplomatic consequences. Eldest Gruff still walks around with the stoles of three Senior Council members on his belt, denoting Senior Council wizards he has personally killed.

There is considerable overlap between the personal and political in the Dresdenverse.

=====
The wizards dont have to be idiot children when they have at least one highly-placed hostile mindcontroller leaking information and influencing the decisions of their ruling council, as well as the implementation of those decisions.
As well as an apparent fifth column of witting or unwitting traitors.

You know the White Council almost won this war eight months ago when they and Summer cornered the Red King and his Court after they attacked a Council target?

If Peabody hadnt fed the Reds enough information to stage a diversionary attack with Outsiders on the Council bootcamp for trainees that forced a diversion of forces allowing the Red King to escape, the Reds would have gotten decapitated and it would be all over bar the screaming.

=====
That section of the book only calls out how hard it is to outright control elder wizards.
It makes it clear that influencing them was, while not exactly easy, a simpler affair. And he's been doing it for more than a decade and half.

Its not a coincidence that the Merlin canonically insisted on a defensive strategy for all ten years of the Vampire War in the face of multiple Rampire-inflicted losses, including the loss of a Senior Council member and most of the Wardens, only to swap to a stated policy of gloves-off, wholesale Red Court genocide in Changes, the very first book after Peabody was removed.



The white council kills talents who don't follow their rules, they don't otherwise police their lives. Which is why vampires eating some talents isn't an issue for the council on a corporate level unless they're trying to exterminate them, but eat a couple full members and see how they respond.

Kemmler was an outlaw by the time he got famous, the issue here is attacking someone with the appearance of good standing to retroactively prove he was guilty of crimes against the council without involving them. No sovereign entity is going to take that, especially when this kind of protection for "citizens" is so critical to the base membership assumption. Remember when Dresden compares getting thrown out to a priest getting defrocked, and how the point of that would be to allow them to ignore it if the red court killed him?

There can be a distinction between a random vamp attack and the red court doing something as an institution, but there wasn't in that one. Same here as well, because Molly's personally engaging as an institution to deal with issues of the same scale. It's not personal business.

The council cannot ignore us doing something like this, it has to respond to at least some degree as a matter of legitimacy. This is not a book club, it's an ancient pseudo-nation state /shadow conspiracy.
The White Council doesnt actively attempt to police the lives of everyone, but some people get more scrutiny than others; mercs like Binder get significantly less leeway than a fortune teller in a mall somewhere. And we know from the example of DuMorne that not all Council wizards are honest.


Kemmler could not have been an outlaw when he got access to Demonreach.
Nor could he have been some unknown.
Occult SuperMax doesnt accept just anyone.


Given the involvement of the Black Council in the entire Dead Beat affair, Molly can very easily make a case for personal grievance against Peabody for when the Kemmlerites tried to sacrifice Chicago to create a god.
The exact same legal reasoning we used for dropping a superweapon on the Wicked City, for that matter.

In fact, its the events of Dead Beat that Im looking at to provide the foci to build a case against Peabody.
Thousands died in central Africa.

=====
Of course they can.
The White Council has always been selective in what they choose to turn a blind eye to and when.
They did fuckall officially when Maggie LeFay was murdered by Lord Raith.

Similarly, White Court vampire Madrigal Raith kidnapped and attempted to auction Harry Dresden, regional Warden subcommander for the eastern US, on Ebay around 8 months ago, with one of the bidders being Red Court Duchess Arianna Ortega. With all the wizard secrets in his head, while there was an ongoing war.

There was no official response to that incident in canon at all, which they chose to treat as a private matter until Dresden killed him a year later in White Night. Just like there was none here when the same thing happened, until Molly splattered Madrigal across the walls of the Raith ballroom.


Peabody alone has personally cost the Council hundreds of wizards.
From Simon Petrovich and the brute squad of Archangelsk, to the one hundred and forty three Wardens killed during the two or three days of Dead Beat. Nobody is gonna make more than a pro forma fuss when we make our case.

And if he starts dropping Outsiders, well, that pretty much makes the case right there.
 
@uju32
I think you are very consistently overestimating Outsider-agents.

Sandra wasn't nearly as dangerous as you assumed her to be, that Whampire didn't matter either.
Peabody won't stand up to the Blackstaff knocking on his door.
 
@uju32
I think you are very consistently overestimating Outsider-agents.

Sandra wasn't nearly as dangerous as you assumed her to be, that Whampire didn't matter either.
Peabody won't stand up to the Blackstaff knocking on his door.
I know I am not.

Sandra only failed because she was up against two Exalts, a Mage and a Demon, and still almost nuked Las Vegas, even in defeat; if Dresden hadnt rolled high enough to disrupt the Dragon's Koldunic Sorcery, a major earthquake would have rocked a city with zero earthquake experience with predictable consequences.

Just in the events of Turn Coat, Simon Peabody pulled off the following:
-The murder of Senior Council member Aleron LaFortier
-The death of Deputy Captain-Commander Donald Morgan
-The deaths of another fiftyish wizards
-Created the conditions for the appointment of the Black Council's preferred candidate as a new Senior Council member
-Severely damaged internal faith in the Council by making the Council have to frame Morgan for Peabody's crimes

Yes, he died. But even in death, he did so much damage to the Council that they were still reeling years later, and would be permanently weakened for decades to come.

He isnt going to get into a punchup with Ebenezar. Thats never been how he operated in canon.
Ebenezar is a potent combat wizard, but Peabody is the kinda asshole that appears to routinely walk around with a mistfiend in his ink bottle. Preparation and paranoia covers a multitude of sins.
 
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OK so 23 total votes half plus one of that would be twelve. Just Lilly it is.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 30, 2024 at 7:02 AM, finished with 85 posts and 23 votes.
 
When we were planning this field trip, we were given an option to step directly into the Wicked City.
We didnt choose it then.
I suspect this was it, or close by.
False completely, I was the one that that suggested using the crown to find a location that maps perfectly to our rescue target cell and just opening a gate and pulling him out bypassing all defenses. GM outright said that would not work the gate cannot be targeted to a specific location like that, if we had tried even in the real world location we came out of the gate would have just lead to the Wicked City boarders.
 
Arc 12 Post 80: Sparks off Iron Struck
Sparks off Iron Struck

28th of January 2007 A.D.

"Here," thankful you'd come prepared you toss a rain cloak out each to the technician, 78-67B (because of course he does not have a name) and Nergui. Needing to get said vampire out of the sun and yourself and Lash away from the site of the 'gas leak' you aim your Crown at the mundane task of finding the nearest safe heaven which unsurprisingly turns out to not be so mundane, a tea shop inked in red and green and in places literally inked since the owners had chosen to use old newspaper pages under plastic coverings on the tables.

Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 3/15 (Crown Question)

The table you are seated at is all Cosmo, Tiffany's is Vanity Fair and Nergui, he explains is all some kind of local farmer's magazine, though that last bit is a little less impressive since the elderly lady in charge can see the horse. The fact that she gave no name beyond Khālā 'Aunty' makes is very clear that she both knows the power of names and is aware she isn't hosting the usual sort of lost travelers.

All too aware of the invisible hunter-killers lurking outside the windows and not wanting to test their restraint too much, you call softly under your breath three times to the Summer Lady.

She has to be aware on some level of where she is being called to since she doesn't just materialize out of the air but shows up at the door in a cute pink pants suit with a camera around her neck, looking like any other mildly frazzled tourist.

"Hi," she rush-whispers. "Do you know there's..."

"Yeah they are with me, change of employer you might say."

"Oh..." she stops to think, giving 78-67B a second deeper look. "But do you know what they are?"

"In general yeah, I could know the particulars if I really thought about it, but they don't really matter. They had hope, I did my best to see it realized."

"She's leaving out the part where they were trying to cut her to ribbons at the time," Lydia chines in cheerfully.

"So did you make it?" the Summer Lady asks eagerly. "Did it work?"

"How often do you think demons quit without notice?" Tiffany speaks up before you can before returning to her tea, black no sugar of course.

"Pleasure to meet you there little miss," Joe reaches out a hand to greet the Summer Lady, leaving you surprised at the informality for a moment before it occurs to you that miss used to be a title of nobility and 'little' is an accurate descriptor in that context, being the youngest and the least powerful of three. What you had not expected was for for Lilly to check him out, right there in the tea house half in the dark because the ancient vampire sitting right just across from him could not stand the sun. He is really nice to look at, but still.

"I am glad my friends plans came to fruition. Truly the world is a brighter place with you freed from durance vile and that... thing that dares besmirch the name 'star' punished for reaching so far and so greedily."

"Well can't say I'm not glad fer me m'self but I'd rather look forward than back, there's a lot in the world that needs fixing and not just things, people too. Folks have forgotten... been tricked into forgetting to take pride in their own work. The making of things, the building of things isn't just about making more things, faster, stronger better, it's about what those things earn, time at ease, lighter backs and healthy children. Industry ain't a reason, it's a way."

"I mean..." It's clear that Lilly's trying to put things delicately. "Feromancy shapes the world to be more like man's ambition, nails it in place with iron and blood."

Joe scratches his head, metal shavings falling all over the table in the process. "Some of that, but I wouldn't call wanting to feed your family and live to see your grandchildren grow ambition, no more than a sparrow building a nest. Sure that steel might go to make a skyscraper, pokin' into the blue, but that feeling, that you can do anything, make anything isn't the base of things, the meat an' potatoes. It's more like whatchamacallit the ice cream on top. D'you like ice cream?"

He is about to ask her on a date, what are the implications of a powerful wildfae asking the Summer Lady on a date? Mind whirling you realize it's probably a play for swearing fealty to the Summer Court without having to deal directly with Titania. Lily does have that authority should she choose to extend it.

What do you do?

[] Try to interupt
-[] Write in

[] It's his risk to take, stay silent

[] Write in


OOC: Well that was a fun set of rolls.
 
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Can we assume that whatever the illness Joe had that led to him dying and requiring the deal with MIkaboshi in the first place has been permanently fixed and he doesn't require stuff like human sacrifice to keep existing without failing apart? I am extremely surprised in how healthy he looks and behaves for what's essentially a long-term terminal patient on life support used for hazardous slave labor in the process.

Also, do we know that Summer Lady is also supposed to stay virginal like Winter one?
 
Can we assume that whatever the illness Joe had that led to him dying and requiring the deal with MIkaboshi in the first place has been permanently fixed and he doesn't require stuff like human sacrifice to keep existing without failing apart? I am extremely surprised in how healthy he looks and behaves for what's essentially a long-term terminal patient on life support used for hazardous slave labor in the process.

Also, do we know that Summer Lady is also supposed to stay virginal like Winter one?

He looks healthy now, Molly does not have any deeper means of diagnosis, but if he were dying of something Summer would probably be the court to go to.

I mean we aren't using BMI.

Even if you were given the company someone would get noticed.
 
Can we assume that whatever the illness Joe had that led to him dying and requiring the deal with MIkaboshi in the first place has been permanently fixed and he doesn't require stuff like human sacrifice to keep existing without failing apart? I am extremely surprised in how healthy he looks and behaves for what's essentially a long-term terminal patient on life support used for hazardous slave labor in the process.

Also, do we know that Summer Lady is also supposed to stay virginal like Winter one?
I doubt it. Summer is lot more about passion.
 
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