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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Degorium said:
So they have at least one active never born affiliation and I think we got more on that when we investigated something but that's the only one I remember but I'm pretty sure there's more than that.
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It wouldn't surprise me if they were associated but Yog's claim is a bit more substantial than that. I want to know if he extrapolated that or if we actually know from something I forgot.
 
Yog said:
We know he was there for the statue. Whether he knew about the exaltation is unknown. But Black Court are creations and servants of an active Neverborn, and are the people most likely to know about abyssals and solars. I am not willing to risk it.
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Sure?

We know something Neverborn created them, or at least was involved in that, but that doesn't mean it's active right now.

Hell, the Neverborn were barely active in Exalted, being mostly passive sources of power and madness, it was their Deathlords who did the active stuff.
 
Azais said:
But seriously, the real problem is that if he leaves his kingdom he stops being immortal as well as lost his Celestine level power and the Earth has many, many beings that would love to kill him, many of Methuselah and Incarna level.
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As per the ruling he needs a big enough crack in reality to enter and since it would require dragging and entire city with him chances are the Calibration Gate isn't nearly enough on its own.
 
fictionfan said:
Ah so the problem might be that our Calibration Gate cosmic alignment might allow him to drag the wicked city onto Earth?
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If we do calibration gate, we should consider aiming it not at Earth, but at some realm that is as opposed to Wicked City as possible. @DragonParadox could we, in principle, aim Calibration Gate at Crimson Path or some other pure Yang aligned realm that is in natural conflict with Wicked City? Some sort of primordial nature hell maybe? I would ask about aiming it at Heaven or Avalon, but we would have needed to warn them prior to doing this.
BoredMan said:
Not saying your wrong but I don't recall us figuring that out. Where is this coming from?
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Here, sorry for the long quote:
DragonParadox said:
Speaking of obscure lore though... "There is one other thing I'd like to ask questions of that I'd be more comfortable asking in company. I know things I see through the Crown can't hurt me but better safe than sorry."

"Well that's not ominous." Is weary sarcasm more of less severe than just weariness, you wonder.

"Come on Harry, live a little," Bob encourages slyly... Well it would have been sly if he dialed the innuendo back about five notches. Maybe you had not been as subtle as you thought you were.

"Clippy put up Perfected Principle of Consumption please." you ask and the image burned into the stone of the museum flashes on screen.

"Oh la vache!" Bob exclaims.

"It's a cow?" you ask bemused.

"No it's... that's not important." The skull sort of vibrates like he was trying to shake his head. Then he unhinges his jaw that through it might pour eerie verse, like a recording of something heard long ago:


"Whirlwinds of iron blood and gall frozen evermore in place
Fate is broken time is Not, for those Broken to debase
Black is the Labyrinth, more than gods, less than dust
In the veins of all that lives dwells ever rust" ​
"What does that mean?" you ask, fascinated in spite of yourself.

"Don't know. A Black Court Elder, I think he was from some place in Eastern Europe though that might just have been DuMorne's taunting, said that as he was being tortured to give up his master. He managed to get one hand free of the chains broke it in the process not that it mattered to it and drew that thing on the wall in his.. fluids, not sure if you would call that blood. The stone transmuted to the consistency of one white scales that moved as if alive. Then DuMorne burned it to ash. The wall burned..."

"Like pyre-flame," you finish absently.

"Are you going to tell me what that is?" Poor Harry sounds like he one hundred percent does not want to have this conversation. Maybe you should have put it off until he was done eating.

"Not sure, that's just what came to mind."

"Still want to ask about it?" He sounds like he knows the answer already.

"I pulled it out of somewhere. Not knowing just means not looking down at my own hand to see what's in there." So saying you grab the unopened bottle of fizzy water and pour it over your head. "Don't laugh it works." With one final deep breath you ask: "What is the history behind the name invoked here?"

"Ever-sleeping, Never-Forgotten, Mockery Maker NEVERBORN"

The titles batter at understanding like broken pieces of some cosmic architecture hurled in a mad rage. Were you other than what you are you would have to strive not to see your mind shattered, as it is you are just bewildered trying to read between the pieces. Having asked for 'history' you behold an acausal entity that cannot have a beginning and will not have an end, no matter how much it might beg for it. Yet there is something there., tying in to what Bob had said. Blood, crimson water of mortality...

Lost 1 Essence -> now at 5/12

With a gasp you come through. "It's some kind of creator being still even though it would rather with all its heart and souls to be a destroyer, it made the Black Court to be its priests and heralds, not sure from what, but each of them are of its nightmares-manifest. I think that I would get another question if I pointed the Crown at one of them." Seeing Harry's shocked expression you hasten to add: "Not like I'm going to go looking for it... just you know, just a thought."
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In this continuity Black Court were directly created by a Neverborn [Perfected Principle of Consumption].

Artemis1992 said:
Sure?

We know something Neverborn created them, or at least was involved in that, but that doesn't mean it's active right now.

Hell, the Neverborn were barely active in Exalted, being mostly passive sources of power and madness, it was their Deathlords who did the active stuff.
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It's alive enough for its invocations to have power. That's alive enough for concern to me.
 
If we go with dogs than Lydia may want to acquire a Cu-Sith. They are already versed in ferrying souls and people around, but with White God new rules they may have trouble finding honest work. Entering employ of a potential new death god or at least a being close enough in essence should be right up their alley. And they already have the basic skills and abilities needed for such work.

Also a bull sized shaggy green dog capable of walking in and out of Nevernever is cool.
 
BoredMan said:
As per the ruling he needs a big enough crack in reality to enter and since it would require dragging and entire city with him chances are the Calibration Gate isn't nearly enough on its own.
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You are not understanding my explanation, if we point the gate to the Outside, things are much, much bigger and more dangerous than the Wicked City could enter without a problem. So yes, he could pass, but he won't because of the reasons mentioned.
 
BoredMan said:
All DP said was that things from the Outside could get in if we used it that way. Your making the "much bigger" bit up on your own.
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I mean not really Ethniu and the Dragons can walk into reality as they want they can't exercise their power as they want except for Ethnui, for some reason but they are as categories of beings considerably larger than the lord of the wicked City.
 
Opening a gate to the Outside is pretty much grounds for immediate... maybe not direct angelic interrupt, but being designated "Enemy of Creation" by all Accorded parties. It destroys our standing.
 
Azais said:
So do you think that the true body of an Outsider has a conceptual weight less than or equal to that of a single Yama King? Because that's what I'm talking about.
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...I feel the need to pull up DragonParadox's exact quote now. It's not as if all Outsiders are made equal some are smaller and less weighty than others. Just because we could let some in doesn't at all means that a Gate alone would be enough of a crack in the Veil for Mika to crossover. Your just making assumptions at that point, we haven't even used the spell yet.
 
Degorium said:
I mean not really Ethniu and the Dragons can walk into reality as they want they can't exercise their power as they want except for Ethnui, for some reason but they are as categories of beings considerably larger than the lord of the wicked City.
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The reason was that Ethniu was basically going "Come at me bros!" to everyone including White God. Dragons absolutely can exercise their power if they are willing to take what happens afterwards.
 
[X] Open Calibration's Gate (Mikaboshi may not contest this, but will briefly create a cosmic alignment through which any of the demons of the Wicked City may pass; you may have to defend the gate on the other side until you can close it)
 
[X] Open Calibration's Gate (Mikaboshi may not contest this, but will briefly create a cosmic alignment through which any of the demons of the Wicked City may pass; you may have to defend the gate on the other side until you can close it)

Open the path, and it's short enough that defending it shouldn't be that hard.
 
BoredMan said:
I actually had this ruling bookmarked.
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Thank you for finding this.

It doesnt really work IMO, because it makes it near-impossible to kill a Yama King, contradicts multiple setting constants, and it removes multiple interesting plot possibilities.I preferred the canon ruling where they can leave, but give up all of their buffs outside Hell, and so usually travel with a large retinue as meat shields.

But its not really something to argue about with you.
Goldfish said:
Sounds like we should take a trip to Tibet soon.
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I doubt they have baby or young dogs simply waiting around for candidates.

Anyway, its Lydia; she doesnt really need a Temple Dog.
She just has to go out, and buy a bunch of Great Pyrenees, have them trained and hit them with the right charm as guard dogs for her home.

Or hit up her father's contacts for some spirit-blooded animals; Arawn's myth is specifically linked with guard/hunting dogs.
And some of the Fae do use dogs; the Leanansidhe, for example, loved hounds.
If she wants them, she can get a pack of fae/spirit-aligned dogs.

Anyway, she still has Midnight, her raven. Who we havent finished upgrading.
Get it to Familiar 4, and it will allow Lydia to fly.
Yog said:
In this continuity Black Court were directly created by a Neverborn [Perfected Principle of Consumption].
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Point of correction:
Creator =/= directly created. Especially since it appears to still be true that Drakul is Drakul.
Just like how in Creation the Neverborn were the ultimate source of everything with regards to the Deathlords and Abyssals, but barely ever made a direct move.
 
The Gate seems like the least risky option here. If Lydia fails the roll to close it then Mika gets to send whomever is nearby for the next 15min or so as opposed to the Gate which will only stay open for 3. We have Shintai up so I think we'd be fine.

Then again it does cost 4 essence and not everything qualifies for MiM so we'd be fighting them off for 3 min with 4 motes unless MiM triggers. Maybe I'd be better to have Lash boost Lydia and bank on her being able to open and close it.
 
uju32 said:
Point of correction:
Creator =/= directly created. Especially since it appears to still be true that Drakul is Drakul.
Just like how in Creation the Neverborn were the ultimate source of everything with regards to the Deathlords and Abyssals, but barely ever made a direct move.
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The direct quote is
DragonParadox said:
it made the Black Court to be its priests and heralds, not sure from what, but each of them are of its nightmares-manifest.
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This is pretty direct. This is very close to "they are first circle demon analogs". The whole "they are its nightmares manifest" is unlikely to be metaphorical, given what we know of how Primordial soul structures work.
 
uju32 said:
It doesnt really work IMO, because it makes it near-impossible to kill a Yama King,
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On that subject IIRC DP said that Mikaboshi took the wicked city from another Yomi after dealing with them somehow. Most likely a hidden weak spot or exploit on the matter.

That reminds me I actually did want to use the Crown to ask how he did that but it isn't particularly important right now.
 
Ok, seeing as there is some discussions about what we'll do in the future, I just want to point out:

We still haven't taken care of of that goddamn proving ground, and if we don't do it right away, I am still pretty sure it's going to be taken by someone else.

So please, let's do that and then finish that excruciatingly long arc once and for all.

Oh, and in anticipation for the charm vote that is probably coming relatively soon, we really should take the Five courts clone charm Yog made (or any other good ones if someone manages to somehow make one in the interim), it might be impossible to leave AP hell, but that doesn't mean we can't make things better when it comes to it.

Doing two things at once and still not having enough time is still doing two things at once, and the sooner you begin doing those two things, the better off you are and will be, forever.
 
fictionfan said:
The Calibration Gate isn't just a portal, but a cosmic alignment. I think that many beings of the Wicked City would not be able to use Lydia's Open the Way to set foot on earth.

I wonder if we had used the Calibration Gate to go straight to the Summer Mother would she have been able to use it to step onto Earth?

Not to say that I disagree with using the Calibration Gate. Just saying that time duration might not be the differing factor.
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The mothers can already enter earth they don't cause they damage it.
 
uju32 said:
Beings of the Wicked City can already use many ways to come to Earth if they have Mikaboshi's permission.
Mikaboshi himself allegedly shows up on Earth at will.
I dont think that changes anything.

Anyone trying to pass through the Gate is going to have to go past Molly in shintai.
That rather limits who is willing to pass. Especially since they dont know if she has anything anchored in the spell.

Yes? You dont need exalted crafting to make spirits in the Dresdenverse. Dying people make ghosts all the time.
But the lack of Exalted crafting meant that meant we had little control over what we would get or what abilities they would come with. We essentially rolled the dice.

That is just not true.
For example, Lash is literally the first Demon on Earth. WoD is awash in Earthbound and Demons, and has had Earthbound around since pre-history; the Dresdenverse version of Earthbound only showed up after the crucifixion of Christ.


I dont at all agree, and I've given my reasons why.

The geomancy is different, the very rules of physics are different.
Ppl in Creation had the rules of reality mapped out in excruciating detail by the architects of that reality and their helpers, and it still takes them years to build.
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You mean something else than first demon on earth right? Cause we've seen plenty of demons on earth. Also good chance there was a time long long ago where said beings of her scale were allowed on earth right?
uju32 said:
Thank you for finding this.

It doesnt really work IMO, because it makes it near-impossible to kill a Yama King, contradicts multiple setting constants, and it removes multiple interesting plot possibilities.I preferred the canon ruling where they can leave, but give up all of their buffs outside Hell, and so usually travel with a large retinue as meat shields.

But its not really something to argue about with you.

I doubt they have baby or young dogs simply waiting around for candidates.

Anyway, its Lydia; she doesnt really need a Temple Dog.
She just has to go out, and buy a bunch of Great Pyrenees, have them trained and hit them with the right charm as guard dogs for her home.

Or hit up her father's contacts for some spirit-blooded animals; Arawn's myth is specifically linked with guard/hunting dogs.
And some of the Fae do use dogs; the Leanansidhe, for example, loved hounds.
If she wants them, she can get a pack of fae/spirit-aligned dogs.

Anyway, she still has Midnight, her raven. Who we havent finished upgrading.
Get it to Familiar 4, and it will allow Lydia to fly.

Point of correction:
Creator =/= directly created. Especially since it appears to still be true that Drakul is Drakul.
Just like how in Creation the Neverborn were the ultimate source of everything with regards to the Deathlords and Abyssals, but barely ever made a direct move.
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Come on I want at least one of those ankou dogs for Lydia and not just mundane shit we should use crown questions to exploit this shit for her.
 
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