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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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uju32 said:
Its not stupid per se. A lot of charities offer useful resources.
Its just that people are not updating their mental pictures to account for new information about Rosie's financial status, and are monofocusing on material concerns when there are also magical concerns in play.

I dont agree.

1) The baby is not due for at least six months.
Its fate is a mediumterm concern, not a shortterm one. Everything before then is just words.

2)Note that until a couple weeks ago, Rosie was a heroin addict.
She's a teenager, and while street heroin is relatively cheap in the US, its not free. Where was the money coming from, other than her family, who would certainly not give her money once they realized she was using?

Did she steal money? Lie? Sneak out for drugs? Addicts will do a lot of stuff for their fix.
And that sort of thing kinda tanks your credibility when you later make a claim that requires people believe you and go out on a limb based on your testimony, like that your stepfather's buddy attempted to molest you.

A lot of predators do pick their targets with some care for their credibility.
A druggie kid who is known to be hostile to her stepdaddy would be a pretty attractive target; who would believe her?

3)This is Rosie's second teenage pregnancy. She miscarried the first.
They apparently didnt kick her out of the house after the first one, and they arent threatening to kick her out after this, or insisting she get an abortion. Her mother has been here in the hospital according to the nurse we met.

She's not abandoned. People care about her material welfare.
Care enough to make sure that her hospitalization does not screw over her education, even.

4) Molly has previously mentioned an aunt Liz who she expected would be willing and have the capacity to step in to cover Rosie's medical bills, and would presumably intercede or take her in if things with her in if relations with her mom broke down totally.
Thats before we found out that Mrs Wilson's husband is pretty well off.

The girl has more material options than 99% of the US population.

Basically, we have enough IC evidence that Rosie is not at risk of ending up on the street anytime soon.
Which means her shortterm concerns are not mundane, but magical, with regards to the magical talent she just developed, and how it makes her attractive to a whole array of magical predators, some of whom might be right there in the hospital.

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Molly hasnt met Mrs Wilson onscreen, but I'm beginning to remember that Molly is not an impartial PoV character, and will reflexively side with her friend, who is herself not an impartial source of information.

Im beginning to sympathize with the woman, and we havent even met her; she's got to manage a teenage addict daughter who is demonstrably hostile to her husband, whether or not that emotion is reciprocated.
And she probably has other, younger children as well, whether her own or her husband's stepchildren.

Thats hard enough as it is.
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Charities help maybe one or two things as far as I know zero charities help with all her problems so it's an effort towards futility.
BronzeTongue said:
Adoption rates vary by age; the younger the child the more likely the adoption. We don't need to rely on random chance either, we can use the crown to pick people who who can and will be good parents.

I'm aware that it's Rosie's choice, and I don't think I've implied otherwise. We are her friend though, and one of her key pillars of support. The advice we give matters, so we should actually consider all the angles and work out the best possible path forwards and why for when we have this discussion with her. Not just make a feel good decision on impulse.

The problem with Dresden's family was at least partially that Susan would continually visit and she herself was interesting. As of right now Rosie isn't interesting, or at least isn't interesting enough. It's worth noting that no one tried to leverage Rosie or her kid against Molly in canon, even when she stepped up to fill Dresden's shoes.

You want to talk about security? The more we involve ourselves the less safe Rosie is, and we can't actually stop a determined hit squad form doing whatever they want to her unless we're right there when it happens.

Is the RPG even canon? Those plot points never become relevant in the actual books, so I don't see much additional value in them. If whoever did it fucks off into the sunset they're not a problem, if they're so good they can pull a subtle job like this then we lack the capability to stop them both now and in the near future.

If the kid is adopted and we keep some separation from both of them they're probably fine, if we involve them deeply then Rosie and her baby both definitely become targets.
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Just a couple notes saying anything is beyond us as an exalted well that's a very very very small list and someone who disappeared is not something beyond us its so far from being beyond us it's hilarious exalted are broken.
Now for the rpg being canon mostly as the creators of it had few hour sessions a couple times a week of just asking Jim questions and him answering for some 6 Month period. Funnily they were so in tune with what he's putting out according to Jim when making the rpg he had to tell them to remove several things simply because those were future plot points he hadn't done yet that they actually guessed ahead of time. Now he also said he doesn't play the rpg for two reasons one can you imagine being his gm as he could make the rules and what's the qm gonna say that he's wrong about his setting and second for dming too much like work. So pretty much all of the rpg works with the settings actual metaphysics and plot points some shit they had to remove cause they were too on the nose.
 
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firefrog600 said:
Charities help maybe one or two things as far as I know zero charities help with all her problems so it's an effort towards futility.

Just a couple notes saying anything is beyond us as an exalted well that's a very very very small list and someone who disappeared is not something beyond us its so far from being beyond us it's hilarious exalted are broken.
Now for the rpg being canon mostly as the creators of it had few hour sessions a couple times a week of just asking Jim questions and him answering for some 6 Month period. Funnily they were so in tune with what he's putting out according to Jim when making the rpg he had to tell them to remove several things simply because those were future plot points he hadn't done yet that they actually guessed ahead of time. Now he also said he doesn't play the rpg for two reasons one can you imagine being his gm as he could make the rules and what's the qm gonna say that he's wrong about his setting and second for dming too much like work. So pretty much all of the rpg works with the settings actual metaphysics and plot points some shit they had to remove cause they were too on the nose.
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I did put a time limit on that, but really it doesn't matter. Eventually being able to do almost anything doesn't mean as much when you need those abilities now and don't have them.

As to the RPG, that sounds like it makes it a good conceptual source, but that it isn't explicitly canon compliant.

So we don't know which things they guessed about that weren't so on the nose or obviously off base that Butcher felt no need to change then.
 
[X] Reveal the name of Namshiel's bearer
-[X] ask if father forthill can keep in contact with Harry on this investigation and see if he can get harry in contact with an inquisitor, the church is a massive information source.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I did put a time limit on that, but really it doesn't matter. Eventually being able to do almost anything doesn't mean as much when you need those abilities now and don't have them.

As to the RPG, that sounds like it makes it a good conceptual source, but that it isn't explicitly canon compliant.

So we don't know which things they guessed about that weren't so on the nose or obviously off base that Butcher felt no need to change then.
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Nothings off base though since they basically had word of Jim what does and doesn't work. But they were in tune enough they got literal future canon plot points they had to remove. the cosmology of the rpg is very on point though along with stuff like species.

A lot of things in it are strictly canon compliant and the rest is a general understanding of the cosmology that let's storylines play out.
 
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[X] Reveal the name of Namshiel's bearer

We didn't have Harry tell anyone else because we didn't trust the White Council, and even Harry didn't fully trust Ebeneeser on this. Father Forthill is about as trustworthy as they come.
 
Something to keep in mind for those voting to share the name with the priest, the Church is 100% guaranteed to be compromised at some level due to Denarian plotting. That is the only way the coins can so consistently get back into circulation and so quickly after they are captured.

If Forthill passes the name up the chain, there is a good chance that somewhere along the way someone will leak the source of that information to their Denarian handler.
 
[X] Reveal the name of Namshiel's bearer

Secrecy only serves the adversary here.
Sure, there's a certain risk for us, but that's where the fun starts.
 
Since we are already here with a trusted priest, we could ask a theological question.

About our ability to send people to various hells.

I mean, it's a bit of an issue in the moral dimension as we are condemming people to very-likely-endless suffering.

But it's also a possible issue from the religious side as we usurp divine right to judge a soul's fate.

Or possibly we don't do that and sending souls to Yomi-Wan is just delaying their final judgement until the end of days.
Of course the latter only works if God is omnipotent and can grab the souls from there for the apocalypse, but that is a believe consistent with Christian doctrine, as far as I know.
 
[X] Reveal the name of Namshiel's bearer
-[X] ask if father forthill can keep in contact with Harry on this investigation and see if he can get harry in contact with an inquisitor, the church is a massive information source.

We should also maybe burn the question about the Church on "who are all the members of the Church which are, associated with, sympathetic to or subverted by warlocks, denarians, vampire courts or other forces of evil".
 
nice. Love how in-character the demonic coadjutor is.

[X] Do not reveal the name of Namshiel's bearer.
 
Yog said:
[X] Reveal the name of Namshiel's bearer
-[X] ask if father forthill can keep in contact with Harry on this investigation and see if he can get harry in contact with an inquisitor, the church is a massive information source.

We should also maybe burn the question about the Church on "who are all the members of the Church which are, associated with, sympathetic to or subverted by warlocks, denarians, vampire courts or other forces of evil".
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Not worth it.

It'd be a huge list and doesn't cover future possibilities, whether changes of heart or mindfuck magic.
 
[X] Reveal the name of Namshiel's bearer
-[X] ask if father forthill can keep in contact with Harry on this investigation and see if he can get harry in contact with an inquisitor, the church is a massive information source.

Artemis1992 said:
Since we are already here with a trusted priest, we could ask a theological question.

About our ability to send people to various hells.

I mean, it's a bit of an issue in the moral dimension as we are condemming people to very-likely-endless suffering.

But it's also a possible issue from the religious side as we usurp divine right to judge a soul's fate.

Or possibly we don't do that and sending souls to Yomi-Wan is just delaying their final judgement until the end of days.
Of course the latter only works if God is omnipotent and can grab the souls from there for the apocalypse, but that is a believe consistent with Christian doctrine, as far as I know.
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I like this honestly. Though one should point out the intended use for the charm.

Most men can be sent on to their judgement fairly easily. A blade of brass and nuclear annihilation through the skull.

The denarians, wicked spirits, immortal beasts...
 
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