Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
In general, I think that with her stats, she would hardly be taught to get into the close battle. On the contrary, the training would rather be aimed at avoiding it at all costs. She is not a molly with her strength and endurance. One point in brawl is exclusively for roleplay.

Subterfuge is also a point or two if she was trained as a specialist in infiltration and social deception...
 
Yog said:
We have cyberdevils for pretty much all vehicles, so there's no real need for drive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That statement right there is a lot of your problem, dude.

Olivia met Molly less than a year ago. She was already an adult attending university by then. She would have already learned to drive. Don't build her with these sorts of assumptions in mind.

Why not start by building Olivia as a young college student, a skilled dancer gifted with a minor supernatural power. Do that chargen first, see what she would be, then add everything from IDU.

IDU isn't magical brain surgery, trimming out less useful skills and abilities so we can reallocate that processing power and RAM to other priorities.
 
Goldfish said:
That statement right there is a lot of your problem, dude.

Olivia met Molly less than a year ago. She was already an adult attending university by then. She would have already learned to drive. Don't build her with these sorts of assumptions in mind.

Why not start by building Olivia as a young college student, a skilled dancer gifted with a minor supernatural power. Do that chargen first, see what she would be, then add everything from IDU.

IDU isn't magical brain surgery, trimming out less useful skills and abilities so we can reallocate that processing power and RAM to other priorities.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are three stages. Olivia before Molly. Olivia 100 experience for special agent training. Demon powers. Points two and three flow into each other but are still different.

And one dot of driving is completely normal for a student that also not car hobbyist
 
Last edited:
Ivar said:
In general, I think that with her stats, she would hardly be taught to get into the close battle. On the contrary, the training would rather be aimed at avoiding it at all costs. She is not a molly with her strength and endurance. One point in brawl is exclusively for roleplay.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Indeed. Which is why I gave her teleportation. It's explicitly intended as part of her sniper training. Snipe target, shift position, avoid capture and counter-fire with teleportation.
Goldfish said:
IDU isn't magical brain surgery, trimming out less useful skills and abilities so we can reallocate that processing power and RAM to other priorities.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
IDU is not brain surgery, but it is twisting of a person into something new. Not directly an upgrade, a deformation. I am modeling it as accentuating the most important parts.
Acolyte said:
Larceny isn't needed if you can teleport.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Teleportation costs willpower and/or mana. Both of those take a long time to recuperate. And teleportation might be noticeable to magical senses. Larceny is very much needed / desired if she's to work as an infiltrator.
 
Yog said:
We have cyberdevils for pretty much all vehicles, so there's no real need for drive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Its not about need, its about 'does this character have AT LEAST this from their lifetime of learning? do they have a drivers license? is Drive 0 really feasable for them to have at point in their life? its that kind of thing, you need a spread out of 1-2 dot skills that make sense for a 'college student in drama major classes' before ADDING 'and now lets get all demon up in here. 1 for 'I know this', 2 for 'have some skill at this', and 3 for 'pretty damn good at this'. So many '0's are just uncanny. even if it eats away at the Minmaxing, a few dots of XP really should be stripped from something else.
 
Last edited:
I think we can look at it this way. Olivia before meeting Molly aka basic chargegen. Optimized as a dancer and overall human being. Training in the Five Courts, Olivia Optimized for combat and stealth roles tightly. Demonic forces...Support for optimization from point two..
 
powergoat said:
Its not about need, its about 'does this character have AT LEAST this from their lifetime of learning? do they have a drivers license? is Drive 0 really feasable for them to have at point in their life? its that kind of thing, you need a spread out of 1-2 dot skills that make sense for a 'college student in drama major classes' before ADDING 'and now lets get all demon up in here. 1 for 'I know this', 2 for 'have some skill at this', and 3 for 'pretty damn good at this'. So many '0's are just uncanny. even if it eats away at the Minmaxing, a few dots of XP really should be stripped from something else.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
IDU is not intended as a straight upgrade. It's a transformation into a demon. That we even can do what we are doing right now is an incredible gift from the GM, as in the rulebook it's explicitly stated that we should not have an ability to design bakemono at all.

And about what Olivia had - she had an uncontrolled psychic invisibility going on, hampering her social interactions. She was used to hiding, and she didn't live on the streets.
Ivar said:
I think we can look at it this way. Olivia before meeting Molly aka basic chargegen. Optimized as a dancer and overall human being. Training in the Five Courts, Olivia Optimized for combat and stealth roles tightly. Demonic forces...Support for optimization from point two..
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Olivia before meeting us was optimized and twisted already. Her magic was twisted towards stealth. Psychic invisibility 3. And she was powerful at it, even if it was uncontrolled. That's why I gave her Stealth 5, for the psychic invisibility dicepool. It wouldn't make sense if she had low stealth, it wouldn't work.

I freely admit that I have minmaxed Olivia, and not just a bit. But I would argue no more than Molly herself was minmaxed at the start of this game. Because no way was Molly at Melee 5, Occult 5. And she likely had streetwise and expression too.
 
Yog said:
IDU is not brain surgery, but it is twisting of a person into something new. Not directly an upgrade, a deformation. I am modeling it as accentuating the most important parts.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It really doesn't seem like you're simply accentuating certain aspects of her character, dude.

I can understand not having points in stuff like Computers, Investigation, Politics, etc., but lacking even a single point in Drive or Athletics is unacceptable, IMO. You don't make it to adulthood in the US in this day and age without learning to drive, and a dancer of her caliber is not merely a great performer but also an athlete, if not an exceptional one. There is too much physical training involved for it to be otherwise.
 
Goldfish said:
It really doesn't seem like you're simply accentuating certain aspects of her character, dude.

I can understand not having points in stuff like Computers, Investigation, Politics, etc., but lacking even a single point in Drive or Athletics is unacceptable, IMO. You don't make it to adulthood in the US in this day and age without learning to drive, and a dancer of her caliber is not merely a great performer but also an athlete, if not an exceptional one. There is too much physical training involved for it to be otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fine. Awareness was dropped to 2 at chargen, 3 after training, athletics was raised to 1 at chargen, 2 after training. Drive was already there.
 
I would recommend dropping preformance to 3 and moving using those points for the rest... or just Mana Manipulation? Why does she have 3 dots in that path anyhow? Its mana regen, but its also 13 XP, and the actually mana draining bits dont even seem to work until 4 dots anyhow? The first 3 dots are kinda a Nothing Burger for her build. I would slice it and just invest them back into her stats and skills, or maybe get a merit like Crackshot.
 
Last edited:
I think this says something about the fact that no one asks for more than one pillbox academics or computers for it and knowledge is the most uncontested category. Apparently Olivia probably doesn't know much about politics and stuff. Which is normal. Many people probably do not have even one point in many abilities of knowledge. This is the most professionally felt category. Things that require a university to know.

The skills also look pretty normal except for maybe super high stealth and performance values and a lack of drive. What has been fixed. Survival and skill with animals is not for Olivia before training. Maybe one survival point after. Craft and etiquette, I think, require specialized knowledge and needs that she does not need. She is not a hobbyist and is not very social outside of art due to her power. Teaching her close combat would be useless.

talent is where the zeros are truly strange. Especially in Expression and maybe in athletics. I still don't think Brawl is justified in terms of training.
Yog said:
I freely admit that I have minmaxed Olivia, and not just a bit. But I would argue no more than Molly herself was minmaxed at the start of this game. Because no way was Molly at Melee 5, Occult 5. And she likely had streetwise and expression too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Molly was a solo Exalt in the beginning. It's a big difference. And even then it raised questions. Nowadays the issue of solo play is not so pressing
 
I honestly don't know why everyone is so worried about the roleplaying part since we won't even be playing as Olivia but as Molly. Furthermore, if we don't maximize her potential she will be left behind a lot because as Yog had said we don't give any of our exp even to Lydia and she was our first circle companion and exalted level from the beginning.
 
The worry comes from the fact that people don't like the super optimization to the detriment of the character as it was before Olivia became a member of the party. Well, to be honest, they don't ask for much there. a couple of points in minor skills without compromising the main focus can even be useful

Plus there may be anxiety that the change will cripple her. But here I am glad that Yog at least doesn't give her mega terrible flaws. Blood and the Avenger can more or less be calmed down even without Molly.
 
Last edited:
Azais said:
I honestly don't know why everyone is so worried about the roleplaying part since we won't even be playing as Olivia but as Molly. Furthermore, if we don't maximize her potential she will be left behind a lot because as Yog had said we don't give any of our exp even to Lydia and she was our first circle companion and exalted level from the beginning.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of Molly's 60 XP from the previous arc, only 40 of it was spent on Molly. 12 went to Lydia and 7 to Lash, with one saved for later.
 
Let's look at the role and optimization of Olivia from Yog.

She has normal stats in mental, good socially for an artist. And acceptable physical stats for a dancer. But the latter can be corrected without experience.

Her main abilities are shooting, stealth and lockpicking, plus athletics to run fast. All this goes towards excellent stats in this department. Plus her magic is quite normal at 6 cubes. And of course she is a very good dancer after the changes. I think it's optimized. Just not Maximum.

Magic is optimized to help her with stealth and is also quite high.
 
So far i like the vibes of uju,s build more, but ill keep an eye out and make my vote again once it is finished

[X] uju32
 
I think it's pretty silly to try and make her into a Circle Member.

She's neither the right person for it, nor is a charm for creating chaff like Formor supposed to change that.
 
My problem with the uju32 build is two things. I don't want to start with Formor and the number of flaws in it. The first thing is optimization and taste. The second thing is roleplay and I believe that if Olivia has ten points of disadvantages it will seriously upset Molly and Olivia and make working on new uses of power more difficult. And I don't want them minmaх them
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
She would get one pool. the alternative would make her mechanically clunky and not even make that much sense fluff wise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Note that having multiple resource pools is a standard thing for many WoD supernaturals.

A standard Dhampyr sorcerer has Yang Chi, Yin Chi, Demon Chi, Joss, Mana and Willpower. Each represents something else, and is regained in a different way. This is by design, such a character has to carefully manage their multiple (shallow) pools.

The fluff of each resource pool is different (in Mage terms, has a different Resonance) and they are used and regenerated in different ways. The two forms of regular Chi are generated/and accessed by different aspects of their Hun soul's personality, Demon Chi is the infernally tainted internal energy of the P'o soul, Joss is a quantification of supernatural luck, Mana is energy a sorcerer has harvested from external sources of Tass using Mana Manipulation/Alchemy, and Willpower is the strength of their character.

A Shih has Yang and Yin Chi plus Willpower, and if they learn Mana Manipulation Sorcery and gain the Mana background they can get Mana as well.

Note that Mana is a background like Resources, not an inherent trait like the others of these. It represents access to Tass you can use in your sorcery.

Even a werewolf has Rage, Gnosis, and Willpower.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top