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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Acolyte said:
I think a nuke is stronger than the examples you posted. We spam nukes and win.
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Not on Demonreach, it isnt.
At least thats the impression we're given. Demonreach's self-destruct charge makes most nuclear arsenals look like firecrackers.

BronzeTongue said:
I doubt he gets most of that, for the simple reason that the sin eater has to give up anything it gives its cup bearer. Their job is to pour it wine, not fight archangel tier outsiders 1v1.
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1)Point of order:
Archangel-equivalent outsiders. Not Archangel-power outsiders.
I dont think any of the great Walkers is


2)I dont think it has a choice there. Its not like its going to be needed everyday, but when its needed, it will be needed bad.

But there kinda has to be that level of reserve available to the agent, or the Sin-Eater would be getting Emissaries picked off every year or so. And there arent that many competent, capable people willing to bind themselves to it if it results in a drastically shortened life expectancy.

The requirements of the job entails too much autonomy to just hire a thug; the Dragon for example, essentially engineered Las Vegas from scratch.

TheGrape said:
The Sin-Eater has two duties: hold the gate shut, and kill anybody who tries to open it.

But it was summoned long ago, and only has so much power now due to Las Vegas. Before that, it didn't even bother with a cup-bearer. Because it didn't need to; nobody knows when Nemesis entered reality, because pretty much nobody knows Nemesis is in reality, and certainly not the medicine men so long ago.
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1) You're mistaken.
It has always had a cup-bearer, an Emissary. I've quoted this before:
I only know that, whoever it was, they also summoned something to deal with the problem and keep the seal intact, a demon in every sense of the word. It demanded a high price for its service—the continual direction of corruptive power right into its black heart for eternity. There has always been one person, the demon's contact with the mortal world, responsible for making sure this happens.
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The Dragon was just the newest one.


2) A LOT of people know about Nemesis, despite its efforts at information control.
The Mothers, Titania, Mab, the Gatekeeper, Nicodemus Archleone, senior wizards like Morgan and Luccio....the list is not exhaustive. They just keep it on the low, both because it's a cognitohazard, and it actively tries to kill people that it knows know.

BoredMan said:
That's true but I'm rather sure it was said that Samuel had the Sin-Eater's mantle. I don't remember if it was said in story or by DP but if IIRC it couldn't remove the mantle while also defending the Gate so Samuel was buffed by the Sin-Eater too.

@DragonParadox Am I remembering this right?
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Yes, it had the Mantle until it was killed:
"As he betrayed you, your servant in this city? Your... Dragon?" it always felt weird to hand that name out to one of the Red Court, no matter how powerful, all the more so now.

"Snake eyes, snake eyes, all in a row. How low can you roll?" the voice breaks a little on the last word, as though the original speaker had been on the verge of tears.

"Can you help us?" Harry asks, getting the hang of this.

"Gotta stay with him. If I divorce him how the fucker'll burn down the house." A woman's voice this time, not hard to guess the context either original or present. If the Sin Eater withdraws its mantle from the Dragon it will just release whatever it had been set to guard so long ago.

"What can you tell us about all this, old one?" Lydia is the next one to ask a question.
"If you can pick 'em up I can keep putting 'em down, but we have to be quick, it's coming up closing time." These words are backed by distant sirens, police or ambulance it's hard to tell.

"And afterward?" you press. If you win, when you win there is going to be a hell of a power vacuum here in Vegas.
"Find a new dealer, the party never ends," comes the answer, brittle and sharp.
It couldnt withdraw the Mantle without popping the seal, so Samuel had the authority, but it wasnt actively supporting it either.
 
uju32 said:
Not on Demonreach, it isnt.
At least thats the impression we're given. Demonreach's self-destruct charge makes most nuclear arsenals look like firecrackers.
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A starship shields can't tank its own reactor exploding. Its just a fundamentally larger amount of power. I doubt the jail could withstand a fraction of its self destruct.
 
uju32 said:
1) You're mistaken.
It has always had a cup-bearer, an Emissary. I've quoted this before:
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DragonParadox said:
Yeah, turns out holding fast the gates of madness can't be done on the strength of eating the odd shifty wanderer forever. Back in 1905 the spirit started getting antsy, get weary maybe. He offered old bat ears a bargain: power, wealth, blood and sex, the works if he would help build a city of sin to feed it into the spirits black heart.
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Maeve seems to be implying the Sin-Eater only really picked an emissary in 1905, and only had any real power after the Dragon started his work turning Las Vegas into a sinful city. Seems it wasn't a big deal beforehand, powerwise.
 
BoredMan said:
That's true but I'm rather sure it was said that Samuel had the Sin-Eater's mantle. I don't remember if it was said in story or by DP but if IIRC it couldn't remove the mantle while also defending the Gate so Samuel was buffed by the Sin-Eater too.

@DragonParadox Am I remembering this right?
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Samuel held the Mantle of being the Sin-Eaters enforcer, no idea what exactly that means in the mechanics.

But if the Sin Eater had fought besides him, as a manifested spirit, things could have definitely gone much worse for us.
I'd still bet on Molly, but not on our team or Harry surviving.
 
I was reread the XP spending arguments from the last buy and I think that I can state with some confidence that we don't need to buy a perfect defense right now.

The Dragon couldn't scratch us and the actual threat was running out of essanse or our allies dying.
 
fictionfan said:
I was reread the XP spending arguments from the last buy and I think that I can state with some confidence that we don't need to buy a perfect defense right now.

The Dragon couldn't scratch us and the actual threat was running out of essanse or our allies dying.
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Counterpoint: It would look really cool for Molly to strap a nuke to her chest and skydive straight into Chichén Itzá.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Hope you don't mind if I steal most of your plan @Yog
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I don't mind at all, and would vote for it if I wasn't pretty sure it would break most of the voting system at this point. @DragonParadox would you mind counting my vote as (also) supporting this version of the plan?

uju32 said:
No. Dont tell him.

We dont know much of anything about Harrowmont's boss and his relationship or feelings towards the White Council, and he has a magical line straight to Harrowmont's noggin. See Ferrovax's general reaction to wizards for a reminder that people who dont want Creation to fall might still be interested in fucking you up for a grudge.

Anything you are sharing with Harrowmont has to be stuff you are comfortable sharing with the Sin-Eater.
Everything.
And Charon just demonstrated how pre-existing promises can fuck a spirit up.
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Which is why I coached the delay in terms of consolidating his power first.
uju32 said:
His highest stats are Social.
His lowest stats are Physical.
Mental is medium.
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Is this from the books, or based on the text you quoted? Because from the text, I would put mental >>> social > physical.
uju32 said:
1) There is no current evidence of that, and we're currently in the same room.
We should be able to tell if that was true.

2)No we cant.
We are still trying to keep the exact dimensions of our Crown capabilities under wraps, and the more we flash it around, the more we risk information on its abilities getting around.

3) Yes?
We can be allies and mean people well, and still think some things are bad for them. Or realize that there are boundaries that we shouldnt cross, well meaning or not. These are not children. They have agency.

Harrowmont is a relatively young man, but he cast his first spell before Molly was born.

Like I said, in his canon writeup Harrowmont stumbled into the New England magical community as a teenager. He developed personal contacts, he studied, he was deep enough that he was actually sponsored to take the official White Council exams for recognition as a wizard. He had (most of) the knowledge, he just didnt have the mojo.

Seriously, look at his personal magical library that we saw.
That is something that took both money and access to put together.
There's good odds he's on first name terms with more wizards and sorcerers than Molly.
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1) That's how I read his behavior. And I didn't mean "physically high". I meant "emotionally high".
2) We don't even need the crown at all for this. Harry or, really, any magician worth of note, should be able to use Sandra's bodily fluids to track the targets of her curse.
3) When presented an opportunity to further the cause of an important ally, I choose to further said cause.
 
Acolyte said:
A starship shields can't tank its own reactor exploding. Its just a fundamentally larger amount of power. I doubt the jail could withstand a fraction of its self destruct.
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Demonreach's self-destruction charge, which can easily destroy the continental plate, is the best of the worst options because it is not designed to kill those trapped inside it but only to kill those with lower security, who can still be killed without special means, like skinwalkers, for the worst of the worst it just might force them to rebuild their bodies and give the rest of the world a little time to prepare for the storm.

Don't sell that prison with a Warden like you're doing, it's a pretty ugly symbol of arrogance. While it's not invincible I would also only fight at essence 5 and only if I had no other options.
 
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Azais said:
Demonreach's self-destruction charge, which can easily destroy the continental plate, is the best of the worst options because it is not designed to kill those trapped inside it but only to kill those with lower security, who can still be killed without special means, like skinwalkers, for the worst of the worst it just might force them to rebuild their bodies and give the rest of the world a little time to prepare for the storm.

Don't sell that prison with a Warden like you're doing, it's a pretty ugly symbol of arrogance. While it's not invincible I would also only fight at essence 5 and only if I had no other options.
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Essence 5 won't significantly increase our capabilities. Like we have most of the very good charms already.
 
Demonreach is an exception of exceptions; if you're fighting Alfred and his Warden while on Demonreach, unless you've got a whole pantheon backing you, you're just gonna end up the next inmate. Even with a whole pantheon for backup, your wincon is getting off the island, not suplexing Alfred.

But all you have to do is the exact opposite of Ethniu, and Alfred can't do shit to you: just don't fight on or near Demonreach. His power projection is 0, so don't pick a fight with him!
 
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TheGrape said:
Demonreach is an exception of exceptions; if you're fighting Alfred and his Warden while on Demonreach, unless you've got a whole pantheon backing you, you're just gonna end up the next inmate. Even with a whole pantheon for backup, your wincon is getting off the island, not suplexing Alfred.

But all you have to do is the exact opposite of Ethniu, and Alfred can't to shit to you: just don't fight on or near Demonreach. His power projection is 0, so don't pick a fight with him!
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If we wanted to take on Demonreach we would get Barren Waste Inflection then just make the territory a bit out of his reach and then expand it until we covered Demonreach. Those cultist showed that just standing outside and throwing spells in is a viable tactic.

If we had to fight on Demonreach I remember reading a charm for making the local area a radioactive wasteland. Not normally very useful, but when you are fighting a Genus locai. Green sun something? Think it's in a favored hell.
 
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BoredMan said:
That's true but I'm rather sure it was said that Samuel had the Sin-Eater's mantle. I don't remember if it was said in story or by DP but if IIRC it couldn't remove the mantle while also defending the Gate so Samuel was buffed by the Sin-Eater too.

@DragonParadox Am I remembering this right?
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To be exact it cannot remove the mantle at all, it can kill the bearer himself, but in doing so with the gate already edging open the thing would have burst. Sandra put the Sin Eater in a lose/lose scenario after presumably acting subtly enough that it could not tell that was happening until earlier today when said edging of the gate started.
 
uju32 said:
1)Point of order:
Archangel-equivalent outsiders. Not Archangel-power outsiders.
I dont think any of the great Walkers is


2)I dont think it has a choice there. Its not like its going to be needed everyday, but when its needed, it will be needed bad.

But there kinda has to be that level of reserve available to the agent, or the Sin-Eater would be getting Emissaries picked off every year or so. And there arent that many competent, capable people willing to bind themselves to it if it results in a drastically shortened life expectancy.

The requirements of the job entails too much autonomy to just hire a thug; the Dragon for example, essentially engineered Las Vegas from scratch.
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1) you say this, but Butcher was pretty clear and I don't see any reason to soften it.

2) Presumably it gets some level of assistance from the rest of the world by necessity, since it can't do its job if it's being stabbed in the back.

Most of it's history was spent living in a wasteland, so it wouldn't be hard to notice someone going where they shouldn't, and once the city was up he had a very good emissary to handle things.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 27, 2024 at 8:04 AM, finished with 110 posts and 20 votes.
  • [X] Plan Friends, Foes, and Funds Splendid Edition
    -[X] Empathy, Leadership excellency to sell your suggestions
    -[X] Remove the last of the Red Court as a show of strength
    --[X] Exile
    --[X] Seize what he can from at least those that helped Dragon in his betrayal, he'll need an operating budget
    -[X] Make use of Arlene's skills to start unwinding the human trafficking in the city, that stream of power can be compensated for
    --[X] Use that to get her to ally with him
    -[X] Deal with human time bombs still walking the streets of Vegas
    --[X] Saving them will help him get their allegianc
    -[X] Meet with representatives from the Library of Congress in person
    --[X] Sell them on helping him on the basis that he's human, and they are also interested in not having a quarter of the continent explode
    —[X] Offer the two dot version of the liar's dice splendor, made out of a vampire corpse from the loot, as the lynchpin of a three way deal.
    —-[X] Harrowmont agrees to work with mortal authorities to keep the city in order and assist with the supernatural in his area of interest. He also agrees to formally give Molly the equivalent of basing rights; in the future she may set up shop here, or sublet to someone else to do the same as long as they don't interfere in his business.
    —-[X] In exchange, he gets the splendor to use in feeding his employer, and the Library provides ongoing assistance for his work through things like a security detail and a limited basis library card.
    -[X] Talk to White Council - given their war with Red Court, they can be a useful ally
    --[X] But maybe delay until he consolidated power at least, and secure communications can be arranged
    -[X] You are ready to help with all of those.
    --[X] You hope he will become a valuable ally in defense of Creation, but you won't say no to a percentage of the loot
    --[X] Molly recuperates essence using RVD whenever we have privacy
    [X] Plan Friends, Foes, and Funds
    -[X] Empathy, Leadership excellency to sell your suggestions
    -[X] Remove the last of the Red Court as a show of strength
    --[X] Exile
    --[X] Seize what he can from at least those that helped Dragon in his betrayal, he'll need an operating budget
    -[X] Make use of Arlene's skills to start unwinding the human trafficking in the city, that stream of power can be compensated for
    --[X] Use that to get her to ally with him
    -[X] Deal with human time bombs still walking the streets of Vegas
    --[X] Saving them will help him get their allegianc
    -[X] Meet with representatives from the Library of Congress in person
    --[X] Sell them on helping him on the basis that he's human, and they are also interested in not having a quarter of the continent explode
    -[X] Talk to White Council - given their war with Red Court, they can be a useful ally
    --[X] But maybe delay until he consolidated power at least, and secure communications can be arranged
    -[X] You are ready to help with all of those.
    --[X] You hope he will become a valuable ally in defense of Creation, but you won't say no to a percentage of the loot
    --[X] Molly recuperates essence using RVD whenever we have privacy
    [X] Remove the last of the Red Court as a show of strength
    -[X] Exile
    [X]Plan Street Rules
    -[X] Meet with representatives from the Library of Congress in person
    -[X] Remove the last of the Red Court as a show of strength
    --[X] Exile
    -[X] Put together own organization; suggest Tommy Fieracelli and his Shadow Killers as potential recruits
    -[X] Make use of Arlene's skills to start unwinding the human trafficking in the city, that stream of power can be compensated for
    [X]STUNT: You take a breath."You're gonna need your own people who know the city; anything that survived Samuel is probably sus. In which case..."You consider for a moment, caste mark brightening, then meet Harrowmont's eyes. "Exile the Red Court." The words come easily to your lips. "Because they are anthropophages. Because their absence would significantly shrink the human trafficking trade, and the need to cover it up. Because there's probably other local Reds and half-Reds that she" you nod over to the unconscious Sandra, under the guns of some of your soldiers "left programming in. Not all, but some. And its more trouble than its worth to go checking." You pause for a moment to frown as additional medical supplies are taken to Hand of Ash, then continue. "Not that this is a Red Court plot, mind; doesnt appear to have the Red King's sanction, at least. But the Red Court's current policies make them a demonstrated Outsider vector in a city established to keep the Outside outside, and their absence would make your life much easier in multiple ways." You nudge the head on the floor with an armored boot. "And since the local Reds are currently drastically weakened, it should be a lowrisk way to demonstrate authority upon your accession without risking a confrontation." "So a scapegoat?" Harrowmont half-states, half-asks, squinting at you. You shrug in response."If you want to call it that. You have a window of opportunity, and a causus belli. Seize the late Dragon's personal assets for his involvement - trust me, you're gonna need the money - but as long as you leave the Red Court's corporate assets alone, you should actually get credit for a restrained response." The medic looks up from Ash, catches your eye, and gives a thumbs up, and a tension you didnt realize you felt eases away as you return your full attention to Harrowmont."First though, you're gonna need to talk to the Feds. Because an ongoing state of emergency means no tourists, and the ongoing flow of tourists is critical to the city's mortal and supernatural economy, and to a...."you wave your hands "general state of normalcy."
    [X] Meet with representatives from the Library of Congress in person
    [X] Remove the last of the Red Court as a show of strength
    -[X] Death
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Arc 11 Post 101: Shuffling the Deck
  • Threadmarks
    • Shuffling the Deck ​

    13th of January 2007 A.D.

    "You're going to have to change a lot of things about how things are run but..." Perhaps you will come to regret this, but you then say what might be the most dangerous words in the English language: "I can help."

    As you lay out the plan in question from political machinations to arcane workings, armor and brass melting from your body as you slip onto a guise more human Usum rightly points out that you are getting very involved in this city, in his own unique manner: "Gracious Majesty, you should not extend such benevolence to this pawn without asking for fealty..." But you plow on. This town's gonna be better when you leave it than when you found it even if it means you do not get back home in time for school on Monday.

    Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 6/15 (Leadership Excellence)

    ***​

    At nightfall rather than gathering the remaining Red Court Vampires in preparation for an assault on their erstwhile master you instead emerge from the tunnels now looted bare —the new Lord of the March has no use for a dwelling place among the drains— to make it clear that they are not welcome in Las Vegas with the change in leadership. With Lydia biting back a laugh in the background you even manage to frame it as doing them a favor, a chance to leave with what assets they can claim now rather than deal with Arlene on the warpath. It sounds like she has quite the vicious reputation, though given the targets you cannot blame her. The one kind of 'asset' they do not get to take back is the human one. There are going to be quite a lot of raids by the LVPD and the FBI in the days and weeks to come.

    Regained 9 Essence -> Now at 15/15 (Kingdom Essence Regeneration)
    Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 14/15 (Intimidation Excellence)

    Thankfully the Arlene herself had not stood idly by while you had been bearding the dragon in his den. With the aid of Little Tommy she had managed to gather all of his still enthralled people at the Hanging Gardens and by the grace of Ishtar free them. Well that and a staff oddly skilled at dousing large numbers of people with sleeping pills. Of course there is still the problems of them all being criminals, specifically gun runners who had taken reckless chances to get their hands on military weapons for Sandra's plots. Some of them are no doubt going to end up in jail no matter how open the Library of Congress has shown itself to plans of collaboration to make sure nothing like the past day ever happens again.

    Not that it would be an easy act to follow even for the Old Ones. Calling home you discover there had been an all out assault on the Outer Gates so vicious than Dad had been called to help hold the line. Whether had been intentional to take the Sword of Love of the board for Las Vegas or a happy accicent in your foes' plans to tie up Winter's forces you could not say but the important thing is that they had failed and that Dad was back home in one piece. Now when it comes to convincing Mom that you're in one piece as well... that takes a while.

    So it is that at midnight, the hour that should have been the dying scream of the city there is instead an air of bewilderment to it all, neon signs blinking blearily over half-empty streets, people all around you talking either too softly or too loudly to cover up the days' events, practically every screen that could serve the purpose turned on to 24 hour news of some kind. In the morning there's sorcery and legend crafting to be done, but for tonight... you look down at the woman you had once thought of as your friend splayed out on Harrowmont's battered couch, like something out of a 19th century psychologist's office. You did promise Maeve, but that does not mean you cannot get some answers first...

    What do you do?

    [] Wake Sandra up and ask her some questions
    -[] Write in

    [] Use the Crown to get an answer
    -[] Write in

    [] Just hand her off to Maeve, you're sick of the sight of her

    [] Write in

    OOC: For the record none of the Red Court corpses you have other than the Dragon are old and powerful enough to make a splendor, you are going to have to use one of the elder corpses already in storage.
     
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    • Better not to wake her up until she is Not Our Problem, but we can definitely use the Crown aggressively on her.

    EDIT: Here's one question we should ask. "What are her contingencies against failure and/or Capture"
     
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    DragonParadox said:
    Not that it would be an easy act to follow even for the Old Ones. Calling home you discover there had been an all out assault on the Outer Gates so vicious than Dad had been called to help hold the line. Whether had been intentional to take the Sword of Love of the board for Las Vegas or a happy accicent in your foes' plans to tie up Winter's forces you could not say but the important thing is that they had failed and that Dad was back home in one piece. Now when it comes to convincing Mom that you're in one piece as well... that takes a while.
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    And here I was thinking that the White God just had issues with helping the SIN Eater. Nice to see that his morals continue to live up to the hype.
     
    There is no guarantee that Maeve will be able to hold Sandra, nor that Sandra won't be able to pull off one last act of spite if given the chance.

    This is not another opportunity for redemption or any such nonsense.

    [X] Sandra is a mad dog, a remorseless agent of the Outsiders rather than a hapless puppet or misguided dupe. To leave her with any chance of escape or opportunity to commit greater mischief is the height of stupidity.
    -[X] Use our Crown to determine Sandra's contingencies for defeat or capture, then kill her unless what we learn would require that she remain among the living for the time being.
     
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