Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

@DragonParadox Sorry to dump all these on you at once but it's taking a while to get them all down and make the language coherent. I just wanted to make sure that they work or very least aren't crazy. Hopefully the delineation will help.
A Regiment of pills and potions that grants internal assists in the perfecting of the body over time. The regimen overtime primes the body for growth or expedites the slow process it already is undergoing similar to the library background for abilities and Spheres this decreases the Xp cost of Physical attributes, lowering the XP cost by one per day to a minimum of 1XP. In the case of physically active PCs this can automatically increase stats after Current rating weeks.
A Series of nacreous Potions and Lotions that move the user closer to the perfected ideas of beauty in all aspects charm, wit and attraction. Similar to the library background for abilities and Spheres, this decreases the Xp cost of Social attributes, lowering the XP cost by one per day to a minimum of 1XP. In the case of Appearance it can automatically increase after Current rating weeks.
Strange seemingly liquid silver pills that sharpen the senses and mind in all facets, taken 3 times daily At the rising, crowning and drowning of the sun. Similar to the library background for abilities and Spheres, this decreases the Xp cost of Mental attributes, lowering the XP cost by one per day to a minimum of 1XP.
I thought the rate of XP discounting was a bit fast but then I realized from one dot to five dots even at full discount it makes it equal to a point of willpower which is really strong already by itself also the fact these last 70 chapters would have netted us a grand total of three XP discount at the rate I have the Xp setup.
is an alchemically made aromatic poly-amide, a class of heat-resistant and strong synthetic fibers synthesized from base Kevlar fibers. Lighter, stronger and more impact resistant than its purely mundane cousin. Lowers the difficulty of lethal and bashing soak by 1 and lowers the dexterity penalty by 1
As its name implies is an anti-inflammatory and pain reliever made through alchemical means. Lowers wound penalties by 1
A crystalline substance that is capable of sustaining spell matrices in its facets this Crystal lowers the difficulty penalty of hanging spells by one per two successes past the first to a minimum of zero.
Kevlar is a substance is just a particularly long strand of chemicals that binds really well to form strong synthetic fibers so an alchemically made one would be even stronger and lighter but I didn't want to like step on the magical alloys by just making it stronger so I increased the effectiveness and lower the dexterity penalty it's lighter and effectively stronger but it's not outright so.
Aspirin as a substance makes complete sense it's just a minor off the shelf drug and it's an anti-inflammatory and Pain Relief medicine making someone capable of getting through the day with a horrible headache or a particularly tenacious toothache though to be frank at -3 or 4 you will be in so much pain that you wish you couldn't think when you should be at -5 and dying.
The Crystal is the hardest thing to think of because the four dot Alchemy power says you can create minor objects with potent power that's really difficult to square with enchantment so it has to be an inherently magical substance that possesses an ability that is powerful but isn't world-changing this allows a spell caster and they have to still be capable of casting the Spells to hang more spells and move and fight effectively. The only thing I have to really pair it against as far as Powers go is live for a millennia if you're lucky as a potion Regiment to compare it against.
A solid gleaming silver pill with gold veins that grants the internal psychic ability of parallel processing. This allows the user to take actions with unaltered dice pools or difficulties as long as the actions don't use the same body part or process. Actions of observation (Perception) do not interfere with actions of speaking (Charisma & Manipulation) which in turn does not affect shooting (Dexterity). In turn actions like speaking threats (Manipulation + Intimidation) and maintaining polite posture in a specific setting (Appearance + Etiquette) are still affected by the base multiple action rules.
Inspired by her own ability to command her body to stop bleeding and affect her rate of regeneration this potion was made by Molly Carpenter to explore and possibly enhance those abilities. Mind over Matter potion grants the first two dots of the psychic power bio-control for an hour.
Inspired by her own ability to glean information from specific foci this potion was made by Molly to further squeeze information out of said focuses. Vision Ever Further potion grants the first two dots of the psychic power psychometry for an hour.
A potion that grants the user the speed and strength of a thunderbolt for a scene. They possess +3 Dice on dexterity actions and +2 dice on strength actions. The player taking the potion rolls Stamina + Occult at Difficulty 7 with each success granting two Charges which can be spent on Thunderous Might (Potence 2) and / or Lightning's Fall (Celerity 3) Functioning as the disciplines in parentheses. The character will have a hard time focusing and a deep well of energy. Any being with the ability to sense or see magic will feel the presence and if seeing the aura of lightning and barely contained violence.

Multi-Threading is part pet peeve, part good but not crazy power. It is kind of irritating to me that looking and analyzing your opponent using perception plus occult, melee, brawl doesn't matter while fighting them makes you less effective at fighting them and analyzing them at the same time.

Mind Over Matter and Vision Ever Further for that matter are mostly me but I think they're reasonable things to want to explore her ability to command herself to stop bleeding which all exalted have as well as her ability that she exposed here at least to herself to command herself to be well, to knit her flesh in general is a interesting direction to explore as well as to command reality to give her information which her Crown and Vision Ever Further is supposed to do as well. In general they're meant to explore the idea of just commanding reality to give you things or do things even without magic or at very least without magical trappings.

Thunder Clap & Flash a semi divinely flavored replacement for the discipline or gifts potion. This one is because I felt that as an exalted and someone who is capable of grabbing natural but completely impossible reagents such as lightning bolts and the clap of thunder could make a potion that would be her own and replicate abilities that she saw before. Also the near cannibalism of cutting open these human looking things and drinking their blood for their powers kind of a bit too far for her at this moment I think and it doesn't matter if you're talking about gifts or disciplines because the only way you're getting that much blood or spirit out of either of those things if they're already dead.

Lastly, the Charge mechanic I did it to balance the fact that the actual example potion just allows you to use what is essentially Potence and Fortitude and Celerity at full blast every single turn for however long a scene lasts. Which for a vampire would cost them three blood points per turn every turn and I didn't want to cost it as Willpower, Essence or Quintessence because at that point why not just use a multiple attack charm or something similar but then I realized there's a specific stat meant to depict physical ability to endure and a magical knowledge that can be used with your stamina stat in the form of conveyance so use the conveyance roll Stamina + Occult to decide how many times you can use Thunderous Might and Lightning's Fall, While not making it so you can do it functionally forever depending how long a scene lasts. The reason I have every success on the difficulty 7 stamina occult roll be worth two charges is because it is a 5 dot potion it needs to be useful even if you don't have an Excellency and even with a full pool of 10 dice five stamina and five occult you can expect three to six successes which considering the base potion allows you be a vampire neonate with an infinite blood pool is kind of garbage, if it was on a one-to-one basis. Also I thought it was cool for a lightning potion to allow you to build up charge that you expended on physical action

[X] Call the Library again. Now is about the time you need some federal aid
 
But tell me that you arent proposing using a 5000 pound bomb-equivalent, twice the size of a standard bunkerbuster, in the middle of Las Vegas. In the middle of underground gas and power lines, with hundreds if not thousands of homes and offices in the local area around the impact point.
I am because that is how yoy destroy dug in isurgents. We can evacuate the area through a bomb threat or something. Its better then running into tunnel when she can just collapse then on our heads.
What crossover is this? Link?

Its a sword without a hilt. DPs previous quest. Its masive tho.
 
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Frankly, given Red Court influence in Latin America, and Outsider influence in the Red Court?
Easier to simply get some of this shit out of the Mexican or Colombian military, or one of the Central American militaries, and ship it back into the US along with some of the New Blood recruits.

Dont understand the faffing around with Mafia goons.
Not unless specificially involving the Mafia fulfills some additional purpose of hers.
Sandra probably had limited access to the Red Court's contacts until very recently?

She might have subverted the Mafioso as far back as half a year, but among the local Reds she was mostly bringing in new blood, not controlling the already well-connected ones. And before the Dragon got himself knocked out she had to play it extremely careful with the Reds anyway, since he could have presumably killed her if he noticed her game.

Sandra doesn't have unlimited resources, drawing on what she can get from the least dangerous faction in Vegas makes sense for her.
 
[X] Yog

No, Im not saying radar is one big weakness to magic. Im saying that veils will usually stop visible light, and thats it. Wont stop sound, or smell, or air pressure. It wont stop invisible radiation either; you cant hide yourself from radar or protect yourself from radiation by trying to bend non-visible parts of the spectrum around you, like you can do with visible light
DF mages aren't hitting video game hotkeys here, they engineer their spells to purpose.

Harry is good at magic in his area and for his age, but his veils aren't representative of what good ones are like.

I am because that is how yoy destroy dug in isurgents. We can evacuate the area through a bomb threat or something. Its better then running into tunnel when she can just collapse then on our heads.
Or we could use the same trick from the Pathfinders thing and use TTC to burrow down from the surface ourselves.

A little hard on the infrastructure, but the party and our minions aren't high explosives so it's way better than it could be.

Incidentally, we should probably read in the Library on the seriousness of this. It seems like they know something is happening, but aren't sure if it's some kind of power struggle among the existing powers or something else.

They certainly don't seem to be responding with the urgency "someone is trying to set off a dirty nuke with continent scale fallout" should warrant.
We do know their plans, that kind of planned ambushes don't happen impromptuly i feel like. You need set up for that.

We can just fly out of the blast radius or into the sky, can't aoe if there is noting to hit.

We can also do a trick of having a rocket explode in the barrel with mhm and that should take out entire squads.
It's too bad they aren't guided, being able to HMP them in flight to return to sender would be great. :V
 
Do we want to gamble on Shintai during the assault?

Tunnel fighting when the tunnels suddenly transform into a different environment the enemy controls would be a real bitch. If we're feeling mean
I would rather hold back on it. It's not free, and we get tlf bonus on leadership excellency as is. Bsm too, and possibly whwh. Hell, in certain specific engagements we should also be triggering ccc.

Shintai is for when and if the outer gates do get breached and whatever the horror is being held back gets in.
 
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@DragonParadox Sorry to dump all these on you at once but it's taking a while to get them all down and make the language coherent. I just wanted to make sure that they work or very least aren't crazy. Hopefully the delineation will help.
A Regiment of pills and potions that grants internal assists in the perfecting of the body over time. The regimen overtime primes the body for growth or expedites the slow process it already is undergoing similar to the library background for abilities and Spheres this decreases the Xp cost of Physical attributes, lowering the XP cost by one per day to a minimum of 1XP. In the case of physically active PCs this can automatically increase stats after Current rating weeks.
A Series of nacreous Potions and Lotions that move the user closer to the perfected ideas of beauty in all aspects charm, wit and attraction. Similar to the library background for abilities and Spheres, this decreases the Xp cost of Social attributes, lowering the XP cost by one per day to a minimum of 1XP. In the case of Appearance it can automatically increase after Current rating weeks.
Strange seemingly liquid silver pills that sharpen the senses and mind in all facets, taken 3 times daily At the rising, crowning and drowning of the sun. Similar to the library background for abilities and Spheres, this decreases the Xp cost of Mental attributes, lowering the XP cost by one per day to a minimum of 1XP.
I thought the rate of XP discounting was a bit fast but then I realized from one dot to five dots even at full discount it makes it equal to a point of willpower which is really strong already by itself also the fact these last 70 chapters would have netted us a grand total of three XP discount at the rate I have the Xp setup.
is an alchemically made aromatic poly-amide, a class of heat-resistant and strong synthetic fibers synthesized from base Kevlar fibers. Lighter, stronger and more impact resistant than its purely mundane cousin. Lowers the difficulty of lethal and bashing soak by 1 and lowers the dexterity penalty by 1
As its name implies is an anti-inflammatory and pain reliever made through alchemical means. Lowers wound penalties by 1
A crystalline substance that is capable of sustaining spell matrices in its facets this Crystal lowers the difficulty penalty of hanging spells by one per two successes past the first to a minimum of zero.
Kevlar is a substance is just a particularly long strand of chemicals that binds really well to form strong synthetic fibers so an alchemically made one would be even stronger and lighter but I didn't want to like step on the magical alloys by just making it stronger so I increased the effectiveness and lower the dexterity penalty it's lighter and effectively stronger but it's not outright so.
Aspirin as a substance makes complete sense it's just a minor off the shelf drug and it's an anti-inflammatory and Pain Relief medicine making someone capable of getting through the day with a horrible headache or a particularly tenacious toothache though to be frank at -3 or 4 you will be in so much pain that you wish you couldn't think when you should be at -5 and dying.
The Crystal is the hardest thing to think of because the four dot Alchemy power says you can create minor objects with potent power that's really difficult to square with enchantment so it has to be an inherently magical substance that possesses an ability that is powerful but isn't world-changing this allows a spell caster and they have to still be capable of casting the Spells to hang more spells and move and fight effectively. The only thing I have to really pair it against as far as Powers go is live for a millennia if you're lucky as a potion Regiment to compare it against.
A solid gleaming silver pill with gold veins that grants the internal psychic ability of parallel processing. This allows the user to take actions with unaltered dice pools or difficulties as long as the actions don't use the same body part or process. Actions of observation (Perception) do not interfere with actions of speaking (Charisma & Manipulation) which in turn does not affect shooting (Dexterity). In turn actions like speaking threats (Manipulation + Intimidation) and maintaining polite posture in a specific setting (Appearance + Etiquette) are still affected by the base multiple action rules.
Inspired by her own ability to command her body to stop bleeding and affect her rate of regeneration this potion was made by Molly Carpenter to explore and possibly enhance those abilities. Mind over Matter potion grants the first two dots of the psychic power bio-control for an hour.
Inspired by her own ability to glean information from specific foci this potion was made by Molly to further squeeze information out of said focuses. Vision Ever Further potion grants the first two dots of the psychic power psychometry for an hour.
A potion that grants the user the speed and strength of a thunderbolt for a scene. They possess +3 Dice on dexterity actions and +2 dice on strength actions. The player taking the potion rolls Stamina + Occult at Difficulty 7 with each success granting two Charges which can be spent on Thunderous Might (Potence 2) and / or Lightning's Fall (Celerity 3) Functioning as the disciplines in parentheses. The character will have a hard time focusing and a deep well of energy. Any being with the ability to sense or see magic will feel the presence and if seeing the aura of lightning and barely contained violence.

Multi-Threading is part pet peeve, part good but not crazy power. It is kind of irritating to me that looking and analyzing your opponent using perception plus occult, melee, brawl doesn't matter while fighting them makes you less effective at fighting them and analyzing them at the same time.

Mind Over Matter and Vision Ever Further for that matter are mostly me but I think they're reasonable things to want to explore her ability to command herself to stop bleeding which all exalted have as well as her ability that she exposed here at least to herself to command herself to be well, to knit her flesh in general is a interesting direction to explore as well as to command reality to give her information which her Crown and Vision Ever Further is supposed to do as well. In general they're meant to explore the idea of just commanding reality to give you things or do things even without magic or at very least without magical trappings.

Thunder Clap & Flash a semi divinely flavored replacement for the discipline or gifts potion. This one is because I felt that as an exalted and someone who is capable of grabbing natural but completely impossible reagents such as lightning bolts and the clap of thunder could make a potion that would be her own and replicate abilities that she saw before. Also the near cannibalism of cutting open these human looking things and drinking their blood for their powers kind of a bit too far for her at this moment I think and it doesn't matter if you're talking about gifts or disciplines because the only way you're getting that much blood or spirit out of either of those things if they're already dead.

Lastly, the Charge mechanic I did it to balance the fact that the actual example potion just allows you to use what is essentially Potence and Fortitude and Celerity at full blast every single turn for however long a scene lasts. Which for a vampire would cost them three blood points per turn every turn and I didn't want to cost it as Willpower, Essence or Quintessence because at that point why not just use a multiple attack charm or something similar but then I realized there's a specific stat meant to depict physical ability to endure and a magical knowledge that can be used with your stamina stat in the form of conveyance so use the conveyance roll Stamina + Occult to decide how many times you can use Thunderous Might and Lightning's Fall, While not making it so you can do it functionally forever depending how long a scene lasts. The reason I have every success on the difficulty 7 stamina occult roll be worth two charges is because it is a 5 dot potion it needs to be useful even if you don't have an Excellency and even with a full pool of 10 dice five stamina and five occult you can expect three to six successes which considering the base potion allows you be a vampire neonate with an infinite blood pool is kind of garbage, if it was on a one-to-one basis. Also I thought it was cool for a lightning potion to allow you to build up charge that you expended on physical action

[X] Call the Library again. Now is about the time you need some federal aid

These look great, very flavorful. The only one I have some issue with it multi-threading and that is because action economy is one of the easiest things to unbalance, especially when you have a very strong combatant in multiple fields. For now I'm going to nix that one. The rest are valid.
 
Campus is empty right now. Inform Von Trier and do what we can to help get them going in the right direction while we handle the looming problem that needs our attention.
Its mid-January.
Campus isnt empty; most students arent on campus on the weekend, but you still have almost a thousand residents on the campus grounds, not counting those doing shit like studying or hanging out.

That said, LAWs and automatic rifles are not the threat here.
Thats just crazy cult level of threat, not infantry unit-scale threat. Letting them shoot at the building isnt really going to do significant harm.


I am because that is how yoy destroy dug in isurgents. We can evacuate the area through a bomb threat or something. Its better then running into tunnel when she can just collapse then on our heads.
Thats not true.
That bomb was designed to destroy nationstate bunkers in a big boy war; thats why it was invented for the Gulf War. Not only because insurgents dont and cant afford that kind of infrastructure, but because you want to confirm the kills.

  • Bomb threats are public, so you can expect that her minions will hear it and tell her to move
  • It takes at least half an hour to evacuate an area of people after a bomb threat
  • You cannot confirm your kill, so if the person gets away clean the first you'll know is when they show up elsewhere
  • You will kill a fuckton of people with the secondary effects. Have you seen a gas mains explosion before? Have you heard about the concentrations of methane and hydrogen sulfide in sewers, and their explosiveness?
And to repeat:
You cannot confirm your kill in the aftermath. BDA is hard.
So if your opposition just moved a mile and continued, the first thing you'll know is when the ritual procs and some Greater Outsider thing rolls in like
Outsider Greeting said:

If this was supposed to be easy, they wouldnt need us.


Sandra probably had limited access to the Red Court's contacts until very recently?

She might have subverted the Mafioso as far back as half a year, but among the local Reds she was mostly bringing in new blood, not controlling the already well-connected ones. And before the Dragon got himself knocked out she had to play it extremely careful with the Reds anyway, since he could have presumably killed her if he noticed her game.

Sandra doesn't have unlimited resources, drawing on what she can get from the least dangerous faction in Vegas makes sense for her.
Thats a reasonable explanation.
👍


DF mages aren't hitting video game hotkeys here, they engineer their spells to purpose.
Harry is good at magic in his area and for his age, but his veils aren't representative of what good ones are like.
The quote is about, and by, Winter Knight Dresden. An eight years older wizard than this one.
The one who bound Demonreach, died, came back, and survived 5 months of physical therapy and combat training at the hands of Mab in Arctis Tor at the beginning of Cold Days.

When I said he has the experience and judgement to tell what better veils than his look like, I meant it.
And I find it instructive that the only example he used was Winter Lady Molly.


There's a point at which I'd say it's worth destroying Vegas to save the continent, but that should never be a first choice. It shouldn't even be a plan you switch to so much as something you do after trying and failing everything else.

Doesn't mean drones aren't viable, those sword missiles the pentagon uses to kill one guy in a full car would make moving her goons hard, and if push comes to shove this is the exact time you send in troops/agents even knowing the likely casualties.
Essentially this.
Also a great way to be sure that noone is going to call you to handle a problem in the future if they think that your go-to option is going to be to nuke the city.


Furthermore, I dont see how some players blithely propose the type of mass murdery plan that would make Mab cock an eyebrow in surprise at its ruthlessness as something the PC would have no problems with.

And reconcile that with criticisms of Mab as a monster because she recruits children for military training like used to be the norm in human society until fairly recently (both West Point and the military academy that became Sandhurst recruited officer cadets as young as 10 in the 18th and 19th century).

===
Drones being a potential app depends on the situation and their capabilities.
A drone design that flies by skimming Sanctuary's magnetic fields is not going to fly on Earth. A drone that can fly in the skies of Bumfuck Nowhere is not necessarily appropriate to operate over a city either.

Some of the arguments thus far involves people conflating HMPed spirit-machines made by Molly as having the same immunities and capabilities as Sanctuarytech drones built by mortals and invested with spirits normally.

Or they suggest deploying aircraft with the size and payload capacity of F-35s in Las Vegas airspace to drop 2 ton bombs.

If I was told to deploy armed drones, they would be personally built and invested by Molly. That way we know nobody pulls funny business with the drone or its spirits; as we see with Agatha Hagglethorn's ghost in Grave Peril, all the bound ghosts in Ghost Story, and Cat Sith in Cold Days, mind control is not a thing that happens only to mortals.

===
Its worth noting that if we had the weapons charm Principle-Invoking Onslaught, we could simply gas them all with nonlethal gas grenades that will vanish at the end of the scene. Or deploy electrolasers for stunning purposes. Or blinding lasers as dazzlers. Or the heat ray thing that makes people feel like they are burning.

If our opposition are going to lean into using mind-controlled thralls, we might want to move that charm up the priority list.


Possible, but I was under the impression that age was a strong indicator of talent type. A strong sorcerer with the right focus can get a pretty good lifespan boost from it, but you only tend to get so strong before your abilities start to broaden instead at a base level.

If she was 150 sure; likely just Binder but with time. At 300 and still looking less than middle aged? Without black magic twisting her around with power that wants to seep in and change you? That says wizard to me.
It's very speculative, but we just saw them poach a wizard and DP said "not often" instead of "never" in the follow up.
I dont know.
My impression is that age extension depends on both a threshold of magic talent potency, and the frequency/constancy of use of said magic talent. At least, thats my impression.

Which is why Mortimer Lindquist is supposed to be a significantly more powerful ectomancer than Dresden, but because he stopped using it for a while almost lost his magic.

Von Trier looks distinctly late middle age, if not elderly.
This was the picture and description the QM used for her on her first appearance:
At your admittedly somewhat impatient confirmation he takes out a flip phone and sends a message. Judging by its brevity you suspect whoever is on the other line had been expecting it. That person you soon find is a woman whose grey hair and many lined face marks her as far more readily as a librarian than Hyde. Andrea Von Trier, offers a polite smile and a quick bony handshake with equal aplomb, but there is something unsettling, or perhaps better to say unsettled about her presence, a buzzing in the air not heard but felt like the wings of a thousand tiny flies beating against the veil. The world feels slippery around her, in contrast to her controlled, almost affected manner. It reminds you a little of Olivia only in this case you suspect you would not even have have realized she was the source of the disturbance if you did not have every shadow bending an ear to listen. Probably doesn't help with interviews though.



As for Silk? Im not sure they were recruiting her at all, as opposed to just scouting her as a contact, or just engaging in asset denial. Given their self-governance and lack of real external oversight, I suspect they are a lot more rigorous about who they actually recruit into the organization, as opposed to just employ as a contact.


Incidentally, we should probably read in the Library on the seriousness of this. It seems like they know something is happening, but aren't sure if it's some kind of power struggle among the existing powers or something else.

They certainly don't seem to be responding with the urgency "someone is trying to set off a dirty nuke with continent scale fallout" should warrant.
They know.

Noone sets off a strategic-scale entropy spell in a city of strategic importance as part of a mundane struggle.
If nothing else, their Edinburgh liaison has to have been blowing up phones. They are just smart enough to know to not to jostle elbows. Unlike Daedalus.

The Library of Congress was set up in 1800, iirc,which would have been the same time that the Special Collections Division came into being. Las Vegas was founded in 1905. They would have been around when that happened, when Red Court money poured into the city, and when the Dragon had his kinetic contract renegotiations with the Sin-Eater and lost.

They have good enough relations with the Native American magical traditions that they were apparently trusted to provide aid when Seeker's coven got too big for their britches.
The feds who helped drive them off dont sound like Daedalus, who are a post-War on Terror invention


Von Trier herself might not have personal knowledge, mind; senior field agent or not, she might not have clearance.
But there's its exceedingly unlikely that the Library itself as a corporate entity doesnt know.
If nothing else, the Native Americans would have told them. Or any of the wyldfae would have talked for the right inducements.

Think of it this way: Even now, as regional Warden commander for half the US, no one's told Dresden about Demonreach, and in canon noone will for another 5 years, even after he binds it as a sanctum, until he dies and returns from the dead. And its literally just miles from his home.

Its not that the White Council are ignorant, its just above his current clearance.
Relatedly, I suspect noone has told Carlos about Las Vegas either. Even though its in his area of responsibility.
 
You cannot confirm your kill in the aftermath. BDA is hard.
So if your opposition just moved a mile and continued, the first thing you'll know is when the ritual procs and some Greater Outsider thing rolls in like
Crown question.

And the rest of the difficulties are easily solvable, take out any observers with stealth and then just evacuate people normally. I don't care about the destructive damage to property.
 
I'm pretty sure the Library of Congress doesn't know ho had the situation is. A strategic entropy curse could well be performed as part of a conflict between supernatural power groups who didn't care about collateral damage without it being a harbinger of the apocalypse. It could be cover for any number of things that are bad but not catastrophic.

If we want to explore more explosive ways of dealing with Sandra, I think the way to do it is this,

1) Get the largest conventional shaped explosive Molly can lift prepared with a trigger in the FCF
2) Molly puts a cyberdevil in it
3) Molly uses the Crown on an entrance to the tunnel network to learn the paths that all her enemies have taken within them in the last day.
4a) if this reveals Sandra's location Molly RDVs very near but not right next to it, collects the bomb from the FCF, triggers it to go off a few seconds later
5a) Job done
4b) if this doesn't reveal Sandra's location Molly RDVs to where she left the tunnel, and uses the Crown to learn her current location with the exit point as a focus.
5b) If this is still underground Molly uses TTc to cut a pipe through which the water can flow so she can RDV using it.

Something else to consider is that the rain may drive Sandra out of the tunnels if they're flooded. This is where having eyes in the sky and artillery support on call may really help.
 
Crown question.

And the rest of the difficulties are easily solvable, take out any observers with stealth and then just evacuate people normally. I don't care about the destructive damage to property.
Foci are not infinite, and you just burned that one on finding the original location in the first place.
So no.

==
No they are not. How would you know who is a minion? Not like they wear a union shirt.
We were literally standing in front of a mind-controlled supernatural and we didnt know it until his programming kicked in.
And Molly is Stealth 0, to boot. AtP is good, but AtP isnt perfect.

Your thinking that you can both find all of them, and that you have the time or Essence to do so, frankly isnt credible.
We literally still dont know which observer alerted Sandra to ambush us on the Strip.


I don't care about the destructive damage to property.
Damage to property represents lost livelihoods and economic damage, with knockon effects on the lives of thousands, and social, economic and political ripple effects. It represents an impetus to political overreactions as well, and does empower factions that will cause everyone grief like Daedalus.

It would be stupid not to care.
No offense.
 
I'm pretty sure the Library of Congress doesn't know ho had the situation is. A strategic entropy curse could well be performed as part of a conflict between supernatural power groups who didn't care about collateral damage without it being a harbinger of the apocalypse. It could be cover for any number of things that are bad but not catastrophic.
Thats not true.
A strategic curse takes a significant amount of prior preparation, effort and resources to put together. Its not something thats thrown together on an impromptu basis as part of some power struggle.

It took an archmage to do this sort of thing to Chicago during Dead Beat, and even then Cowl used the power of Halloween to boost his cityscale hex on Chicago. You're looking at that same level of occult power to manage it here, only with no advantages from the dates or the stars.

Cityscale effects are not easy, and faction clashes tend to be very clear to onlookers.
The last two times this has occurred in canon were the aforementioned Cowl fucking up Chicago to prep the Darkhallow, and Milwaukee in 1994 when the Summer and Winter Court came to blows.
 
Foci are not infinite, and you just burned that one on finding the original location in the first place.
So no.
No, scenes are infinite.
No they are not. How would you know who is a minion? Not like they wear a union shirt.
We were literally standing in front of a mind-controlled supernatural and we didnt know it until his programming kicked in.
And Molly is Stealth 0, to boot. AtP is good, but AtP isnt perfect.
Crown question again. Maybe location or something.

Also harry veil for stealth.
Damage to property represents lost livelihoods and economic damage, with knockon effects on the lives of thousands, and social, economic and political ripple effects. It represents an impetus to political overreactions as well, and does empower factions that will cause everyone grief like Daedalus.

It would be stupid not to care.
No offense
Thats an absurd concern in face of oblivion. We can fix it later once we take over las vegas.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Feb 10, 2024 at 10:06 AM, finished with 66 posts and 6 votes.

  • [X] Call the Library again. Now is about the time you need some federal aid
    [X]Plan Focus on Sandra let the Police handle this
    -[x]You know what is coming and can guess the route quickly call the Library and get an anti terrorist squad to interpret well you go and handle Sandra.
 
No, scenes are infinite.
Scenes are infinite. Scenes are not universally applicable.
Furthermore, Crown use costs Essence. And Essence is not always available; as evidenced by both Molly and Lydia currently being at half Essence.

Crown question again. Maybe location or something.
See above.
Second verse, same as the first.

Thats an absurd concern in face of oblivion. We can fix it later once we take over las vegas.
1) One: This is not oblivion.
Even in the worst case scenario, its gutting the continental US, not the world.
Catastrophizing shit in order to justify extreme measures does noone any favors.

Two: People who live their lives as if there is no tomorrow to worry about generally often find themselves in dire straits when tomorrow actually comes.

Three: Its always in the interests of the Outsiders and their agents to create and spread chaos and disorder.
To weaken the bonds of society and hierarchy. To quote Nemesis:
"This was less a plan than . . . an act of faith, I suppose you would say," the Outsider continued through Justine's lips.
"Faith?" I asked.
"In what is coming," the Walker said. "The unraveling of all things into darkness and silence."
"Empty Night," I breathed.

"Empty Night," the creature echoed, in the hushed tone of a holy phrase. "So we pressed the attacks at the Outer Gates. While I sowed havoc within the walls of reality. We loosed some of the primal forces of your own precious Creation against you. Undermined Mab, her people, the Accords, the delusion of order you force upon the universe with your useless presence." She smiled, dropping lower, the motion feline, sensual, hypnotic. "You may have survived the day. But the deed is done. We are the tide. Infinite. Unrelenting. And one day, starborn, make no mistake, we will wipe away all that you know. All we need is a single opening."

"Must suck," I panted, "to get whipped by some stupid punk from Chicago. 'Cause it looks to me like I beat you."

Something ugly went through her voice. "There was never a victory for you to gain," Nemesis hissed. "The mortals have been given terror they have not known in centuries. There is nothing more that need be done. They are your death stroke. Now I need only wait."

I finally reached the back of the boat and said, "Funny you should mention waiting."
Justine tilted her head, too far, silent.
When your shit plays into their hands, you should reconsider.


2) We are not taking over Las Vegas. Thats not happening.
Our having to take responsibility for keeping this Hellgate closed is a failure state.
A Bad Thing.


3) The idea that you think that the sociopoliticoeconomic ripple effects of bombing a major US city would be restricted to Las Vegas baffles me. Especially in a setting where 9/11 was just six and a half years ago, and is still reverberating.

I mean, the global subprime mortgage housing crisis collapse is in progress, and the 2007-2008 financial crisis literally begins to kick in starting in February. Great time to blow up the center of a major US city.
You can be sure it will have absolutely no national or global effects.
 
Its mid-January.
Campus isnt empty; most students arent on campus on the weekend, but you still have almost a thousand residents on the campus grounds, not counting those doing shit like studying or hanging out.
Maybe empty was overstating it, but it's empty enough for our purposes.
The quote is about, and by, Winter Knight Dresden. An eight years older wizard than this one.
You keep saying winter knight like it counts as a post doc in magic or something. It gave him power, but it wasn't made specifically to make a mage better at magic. The training Mab gave him wasn't really focused there either.

You yourself frequently advance the argument that Harry isn't knowledgeable about everything, this is a place where he is aware of that fact. His talents don't run in this direction and he doesn't spend a lot of time playing with illusions. He calls out Molly quickly getting better at them than him in canon despite the differences in their experience levels before she became the winter lady.

The veil you get out of a book or from an old wizard's direct instruction probably doesn't cover radar because it never mattered to them and doesn't really matter now. You can learn how to do them different ways though, and add more coverage. A wizard or other caster with a high school education on physics and time to experiment should be able to make something to do this the same way the first people to do it with visible light did.
And I find it instructive that the only example he used was Winter Lady Molly.
His apprentice and only illusionist he regularly interacts with. You're attributing things to Winter's influence that were in fact part of why it was interested in hiring them in the first place.


I dont know.
My impression is that age extension depends on both a threshold of magic talent potency, and the frequency/constancy of use of said magic talent. At least, thats my impression.

Which is why Mortimer Lindquist is supposed to be a significantly more powerful ectomancer than Dresden, but because he stopped using it for a while almost lost his magic.
Use is part of it, but it only takes you so far. A sorcerer can get really good at their specialization, but effectiveness and magical muscle aren't quite the same thing.

I don't think you can get strong enough for wizard tier life extension with pure mortal magic unless you're a wizard. A sorcerer who can summon with the best of them doesn't have the same spiritual mass as a wizard, which is where the life extension comes from.

Von Trier is better preserved than McCoy, so I'd say that's still in line with my theory.


They know.

Noone sets off a strategic-scale entropy spell in a city of strategic importance as part of a mundane struggle.
If nothing else, their Edinburgh liaison has to have been blowing up phones. They are just smart enough to know to not to jostle elbows. Unlike Daedalus.
Wizards aren't known for being talkative, and people hip deep in the supernatural who live here don't seem up to speed. I don't think they'd be this hands off about stuff.
 
2) We are not taking over Las Vegas. Thats not happening.
Our having to take responsibility for keeping this Hellgate closed is a failure state.
A Bad Thing.
Right now by having involved the Library of Congress, we are already making a bid. We have subverted the cult of Ra Descending, allied with the cult of Isis, and caused Xanadu to be taken from Red Court by LoC. In the next several hours we are likely to break Red Court's presence in town by pitting them against themselves, and possibly be present at the death of their leader. If the gates break open, Sin Eater, the boss of bosses as it was, is likely to die.

In less than twelve hours our cybernetically enhanced demonic troops might have already established a forward operating base in the city's guts, and our spiritual servants have taken over city's infrastructure. Don't dismiss the possiblity that we are taking over the city. The opportunity is near, and we have all the resources to do it. If Sin Eater dies, we call in a favor from Summer to hold the city for us for a year and a day, and use the payment by Maeve for Sandra so Winter doesn't contest the claim. Then we bring in forces from the Sanctuary, and talk to Library of Congress so Federal government doesn't interfere.
 
Thats not true.
A strategic curse takes a significant amount of prior preparation, effort and resources to put together. Its not something thats thrown together on an impromptu basis as part of some power struggle.

It took an archmage to do this sort of thing to Chicago during Dead Beat, and even then Cowl used the power of Halloween to boost his cityscale hex on Chicago. You're looking at that same level of occult power to manage it here, only with no advantages from the dates or the stars.

Cityscale effects are not easy, and faction clashes tend to be very clear to onlookers.
The last two times this has occurred in canon were the aforementioned Cowl fucking up Chicago to prep the Darkhallow, and Milwaukee in 1994 when the Summer and Winter Court came to blows.

The Advantage here is location, specifically on a gate to the Bad Place.
 
You keep saying winter knight like it counts as a post doc in magic or something. It gave him power, but it wasn't made specifically to make a mage better at magic. The training Mab gave him wasn't really focused there either.

You yourself frequently advance the argument that Harry isn't knowledgeable about everything, this is a place where he is aware of that fact. His talents don't run in this direction and he doesn't spend a lot of time playing with illusions. He calls out Molly quickly getting better at them than him in canon despite the differences in their experience levels before she became the winter lady.

The veil you get out of a book or from an old wizard's direct instruction probably doesn't cover radar because it never mattered to them and doesn't really matter now. You can learn how to do them different ways though, and add more coverage. A wizard or other caster with a high school education on physics and time to experiment should be able to make something to do this the same way the first people to do it with visible light did.
It kinda does for him.

Like I said, this is Peace Talks Harry. Sarissa handled most of his physical therapy after he was reborn, but Mab specifically handled upping his situational awareness to threat, and his casting. And she did so without him having a staff, or a wand, or any sort of tool to help.

So yeah, it matters.

At the point where he made that comparison, he's seen Imariel!Lartessa's veiling and unveiling in Small Favor.
He's seen Shagnasty's veils in Turn Coat. He'd seen the Redcap's clique, and Lily's bodyguard contingent veil in Cold Days.
He's seen Ursiel!Genoskwa's veils in Skin Game.

He knows what top-tier veils look like, is my point.
===
I genuinely doubt it.
Veils do not appear to work like a fixed spell, and more like an ongoing ability. Like you are actively using your fingers to manipulate the world. And that requires at least some level of sensory feedback to do so.

Its a lot like saying that an old wizard with access to a library should figure out regeneration, only worse, because at least with regen you have some sensory feedback to work with.
No wizard we're aware of has figured out regeneration.

Trying to bend radiation you cant sense to avoid the notice of sensors which you cant evaluate sounds like a whole new flavor of suck.



His apprentice and only illusionist he regularly interacts with. You're attributing things to Winter's influence that were in fact part of why it was interested in hiring them in the first place.
No Im not.
A lot of Winter's nobility, if not the vast majority, can veil no problem. Pretty good veils at that, according to Cold Days!Dresden.
We see the Redcap and his clique do so in Cold Days, along with some impressive combat shapeshifting.


Wizards aren't known for being talkative, and people hip deep in the supernatural who live here don't seem up to speed. I don't think they'd be this hands off about stuff.
This isnt just wizard business though.
This is allegedly old Native American business from before the predecessor to the White Council, and old spirit business, and you can be sure they keep an eye on events in the neighborhood.

This is also something that the Council doesnt benefit from keeping mum about since it simply sends them to other sources.
And makes it less likely the Council can get favors off them in the future.
Like I said, two hundred year old institution. They arent a Power, but they do have some pull.


Right now by having involved the Library of Congress, we are already making a bid. We have subverted the cult of Ra Descending, allied with the cult of Isis, and caused Xanadu to be taken from Red Court by LoC. In the next several hours we are likely to break Red Court's presence in town by pitting them against themselves, and possibly be present at the death of their leader. If the gates break open, Sin Eater, the boss of bosses as it was, is likely to die.

In less than twelve hours our cybernetically enhanced demonic troops might have already established a forward operating base in the city's guts, and our spiritual servants have taken over city's infrastructure. Don't dismiss the possiblity that we are taking over the city. The opportunity is near, and we have all the resources to do it. If Sin Eater dies, we call in a favor from Summer to hold the city for us for a year and a day, and use the payment by Maeve for Sandra so Winter doesn't contest the claim. Then we bring in forces from the Sanctuary, and talk to Library of Congress so Federal government doesn't interfere.
Im specifically writing it off for that reason.
It will not only represent a fixed vulnerability that anyone can attempt to focus our attention in order to distract from their activity elsewhere? It will also make it that much harder for us to operate in other cities in the future as locals worry about a takeover.

And for what? So we can claim to run a city's underworld? Bragging rights? The juice aint worth the squeeze.

People need to know that when Molly moves full force into their neighborhood to allegedly fix a problem or to hunt down some fugitive, she's going to pick up her shit and go home again. Else we're going to run into a lot of reflexive resistance every time we show up somewhere new.


The Advantage here is location, specifically on a gate to the Bad Place.
Ah.
We wont know IC of course, but is it a fixed location?
Is there some sort of keystone involved in this? Can Molly tell?
 
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Ah.
We wont know IC of course, but is it a fixed location?
Is there some sort of keystone involved in this? Can Molly tell?

You have no means to feel that at the moment, though perhaps those tunnels Sandra is in are closer. It would stand to reason that if you want to hide something you would put it where most people can't see it, underground and that is not even accounting for the symbolic associations in play.
 
Shouldn't take long we can book it after. Really should have just gone to Arlene's place so we could be recharging by now.

[X] Call the Library again. Now is about the time you need some federal aid
 
Its worth noting that if we had the weapons charm Principle-Invoking Onslaught, we could simply gas them all with nonlethal gas grenades that will vanish at the end of the scene. Or deploy electrolasers for stunning purposes. Or blinding lasers as dazzlers. Or the heat ray thing that makes people feel like they are burning.

If our opposition are going to lean into using mind-controlled thralls, we might want to move that charm up the priority list.
Do we really need another Charm for this though? In the Five Courts death isn't permanent. I really feel like weapons for nonlethal takedowns would be a specialty for warfare and police activity there. We should be able to request things like that and take some with us.
 
Im specifically writing it off for that reason.
It will not only represent a fixed vulnerability that anyone can attempt to focus our attention in order to distract from their activity elsewhere? It will also make it that much harder for us to operate in other cities in the future as locals worry about a takeover.

And for what? So we can claim to run a city's underworld? Bragging rights? The juice aint worth the squeeze.

People need to know that when Molly moves full force into their neighborhood to allegedly fix a problem or to hunt down some fugitive, she's going to pick up her shit and go home again. Else we're going to run into a lot of reflexive resistance every time we show up somewhere new.
So we gain a staging ground that cannot be nuked into the ground, has established infrastructure, and multiple dragon nests. So that we can turn the city of sin into the city of fountains. So We can make things better, for ourselves and others.
 
As discussed earlier it would be for the supernatural aspect. We'd have access to the leylines here without having to fight for it for example.
I cant imagine why we would want to.

We havent even taken advantage of those in Chicago we already have access to, and in someplace like Las Vegas, you most definitely dont want to be tapping the leylines around a Hellgate. Given that the Sin-Eater arranged to found Las Vegas to feed itself over touching any of the local leylines , Id stay even further away from them.

Its just claiming territory for the sake of claiming territory, and then having to fight to defend it from other claimants.

Do we really need another Charm for this though? In the Five Courts death isn't permanent. I really feel like weapons for nonlethal takedowns would be a specialty for warfare and police activity there. We should be able to request things like that and take some with us.
1)The logic is the opposite actually:
If death isnt permanent in the Five Courts, then the incentive for making better nonlethal weapons is actually decreased, not increased, since if you make an error, the person will come back.

2)You dont have to go back to the Courts every time you need shit, which helps keep your movements quiet since we've been told that opening a gate to Sanctuary is magically loud. You dont have to carry around loads of weapons, or reloads; as long as the charm is active, you have infinite reloads.

And critically, Principle Invoking Onslaught leaves no evidence of what you did.

If you used a minigun to level a house, there will be bullet holes in the walls, but there are no bullets in the holes or shell casings on the ground. If you nuke a location with a Davy Crockett or a SADM, no fallout.
If you gas a bunch of people with gas grenades, the gas and the canisters all vanish at the end of the scene.
 
1)The logic is the opposite actually:
If death isnt permanent in the Five Courts, then the incentive for making better nonlethal weapons is actually decreased, not increased, since if you make an error, the person will come back.
Wait I don't recall, when people die they just come back where ever their body happens to be right? @DragonParadox Is that true and if so what happens if there is no body?

Your second point makes sense we don't have infinite inventory either.
 
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