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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Huh. Possible Flaw in the plan. Bleach didn't get an English release until September of 2006(It's July in the quest right now). Though it'd be in the Bount arc in Japan right now.
 
[X] Continue the account of the day for one or more of your siblings
-[X] Which ones and how: Daniel, Mathew and Leech.
 
Silent Optics said:
[X] Continue the account of the day for one or more of your siblings
-[X] Which ones and how: Daniel, Mathew and Leech.

I can get behind making ourselves a cute pet spirit dragon from the residual draconic essence in Siriothrax's bones.
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We'll probably get around to making multiple arcana.
Because Molly's private house is going to need a housekeeper or several when she is not around.
Not to mention additional security for her family home, the next time someone tries to pull something.

OctarineShrike said:
Does anyone have any better tactics for secretly continuing our account of the day than Bleach Fanfiction with an emphasis on how Anime is more dangerous in real life because Snipers no plot armor etc?
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No. Anime works.

veekie said:
Think the last time he tried he got beaten up and then stepped on by an Archangel...
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Yeah.
Kinda hard to go up against a 7:1 disadvantage in numbers of archangels, and thats without Big G taking a hand.
Dude would not agree to a handsoff, indirect competition over Humanity if he had the power to force a different resolution.

firefrog600 said:
is this something that actually happened or just taking things from biblical knowledge?
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The books have mentioned four loyal archangels in addition to Lucifer: Uriel, Michael, Raphael and Gabriel.

Dresden gets visits from Uriel, Michael gave Sanya Fidelacchius after he broke loose from Magog, Raphael or one of his lieutenants was identified as responsible for the magical wards on the Carpenter panic room, and Mab has mentioned Gabriel as being flashy when she talked to Dresden in Small Favor.

And of course Lucifer is identified as having helped the Denarians in Small Favor.
OctarineShrike said:
Huh. Possible Flaw in the plan. Bleach didn't get an English release until September of 2006(It's July in the quest right now). Though it'd be in the Bount arc in Japan right now.
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Mathew is a weeb who is described on the Contacts and Allies sheet as having introduced Molly to anime a d is learning Japanese because a lotta translators get stuff wrong.
You can be fairly sure that he's bringing subbed anime home amd trading it in school.
 
uju32 said:
We'll probably get around to making multiple arcana.
Because Molly's private house is going to need a housekeeper or several when she is not around.
Not to mention additional security for her family home, the next time someone tries to pull something.


No. Anime works.


Yeah.
Kinda hard to go up against a 7:1 disadvantage in numbers of archangels, and thats without Big G taking a hand.
Dude would not agree to a handsoff, indirect competition over Humanity if he had the power to force a different resolution.


The books have mentioned four loyal archangels in addition to Lucifer: Uriel, Michael, Raphael and Gabriel.

Dresden gets visits from Uriel, Michael gave Sanya Fidelacchius after he broke loose from Magog, Raphael or one of his lieutenants was identified as responsible for the magical wards on the Carpenter panic room, and Mab has mentioned Gabriel as being flashy when she talked to Dresden in Small Favor.

And of course Lucifer is identified as having helped the Denarians in Small Favor.

Mathew is a weeb who is described on the Contacts and Allies sheet as having introduced Molly to anime a d is learning Japanese because a lotta translators get stuff wrong.
You can be fairly sure that he's bringing subbed anime home amd trading it in school.
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I'm aware lucifer exists any actual feats are pure speculation at best though.
 
firefrog600 said:
I'm aware lucifer exists any actual feats are pure speculation at best though.
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Small Favor, final chapter:
Dresden in the chapel said:
I looked up at the podium, where Whoever would presumably be when someone was there delivering a sermon.

"I know that we don't talk much," I said, speaking out loud to the empty room. "And I'm not looking for a pen pal. But I thought You should know that Michael makes You look pretty good. And if after all he's done, it ends like this for him, I'd think less of You. He deserves better. I think You should make sure he gets it. If You want to bill it to me, I'm fine with that. It's no problem."

Nobody said anything back.

"And while we're on the subject," I said, "I think the rules You've got set up suck. You don't get involved as much as You used to, apparently. And Your angels aren't allowed to stick their toes in unless the bad guys do it first. But I've been running some figures in my head, and when the Denarians pulled up those huge Signs, they had to have a lot of power to do it. A lot of power. More than I could ever have had, even with Lasciel. Archangel power. And I can only think of one of those guys who would have been helping that crew."

I stood up and jabbed a finger at the podium, suddenly furious, and screamed, "The Prince of fucking Darkness gets to cheat and unload his power on the earth-twice!-and You just sit there being holy while my friend, who has fought for You his whole life, is dying! What the hell is wrong with You?"
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Dresden straight up says it outright.
Then later in the same chapter, Mab talks about four of them, and outright says she and Uriel had a common interest in disrupting Denarian plans, and that Uriel essentially gifted him soulfire:
Dresden in the chapel with Mab said:
Grimalkin mewled from the pew beside me, "That your experience with resisting the shadow of the Fallen One has garnered the respect of the Watchman, my Emissary."

I twitched violently enough that I came up off my seat an inch or two, and came back down with a grunt. I slid down as far as I could to the end of the pew. It wasn't far. I bought myself only another inch or three before I turned to face Mab.

She sat calmly, dressed in a casual business suit of dark blue, wearing plenty of elegant little diamonds. Her white hair was bound up into a braided bun, held in place with ivory sticks decorated with lapis. She held Grimalkin on her lap like a favorite pet, though only a lunatic would have mistaken the malk for a domestic cat. It was the first time I'd seen Grimalkin in clear light. He was unusually large and muscular, even for a malk-and they tended to make your average lynx look a little bit scrawny. Grimalkin must have weighed sixty or seventy pounds, all of it muscle and bone. His fur was dark grey, patterned with rippling black fur almost like a subtle watermark. His eyes were yellow-green, very large, and far too intelligent for any animal.

"The Watchman?" I stammered.

Mab's head moved slightly with the words, but it was Grimalkin's mewling voice that actually spoke. "The Prince of the Host is all pomp and ceremony, and when he moves it is with the thunder of the wings of an army of seraphim, the crash of drums, and the clamor of horns. The Trumpeter never walks quietly when he can appear in a chorus of light. The Demon Binder takes tasks upon his own shoulders and solves his problems with his own hands. But the Watchman..." Mab smiled. "Of the archangels, I like him the most. He is the quiet one. The subtle one. The one least known. And by far the most dangerous."

I sorted through what knowledge I had of the archangels. It was meager enough, but I knew that much, at least. "Uriel," I said quietly.

Mab lifted a finger and continued speaking through the malk. "Caution is called for, Emissary mine. Were I in your position, I would speak his name sparingly, if ever."

"What has he done to me?" I asked her.

Mab stared at me with iridescent eyes. "That is a question only you can answer. But I can say this much: He has given you the potential to be more of what you are."

"Huh?"

She smiled, reached to the bench on the other side of her body, and produced my blasting rod. "The return of your property," the malk said. "The need to keep it from you has passed."

"Then I was right," I said, accepting it. "You took it. And you took the memory of it happening."

"Yes."

"Why?"

"Because I deemed it proper," she replied, as if speaking to a rather slow-witted child. "You would have risked your own life-and my purpose-to protect your precious mortals had I not taken your fire from you. Summer would have tracked and killed you two days ago."

"Not having it could have gotten me killed, too," I said. "And then you'd have wasted all that time you've put in trying to recruit me to be the next Winter Knight."

"Nonsense," Mab said. "If you died, I would simply recruit your brother. He would be well motivated to seek revenge upon your killers."

A little cold feeling shot through me. I hadn't realized that Mab knew who he was. But I guess it made sense. My godmother, the Leanansidhe, had been tight with my mother, one way or another. If Lea had known, then it might make sense that Mab did, too. "He isn't a mortal," I said quietly. "I thought the Knights had to be mortals."

"He is in love," Grimalkin mrowled for Mab. "That is more than mortal enough for me." She tilted her head. "Though I suppose I might make him an offer, while you yet live. He would give much to hold his love again, would he not?"

I fixed her with a hard gaze and said, "You will stay away from him."

"I will do as I please," she said. "With him-and with you."

I scowled at her. "You will not. I do not belong to y-"

The next thing I knew I was on my knees in the center aisle, and Mab was walking away from me, toward the door. "Oh, but you do, mortal. Until you have worked off your debt to me you are mine. You owe one favor more."

I tried to get up, and I couldn't. My knees just wouldn't move. My heart beat far too hard, and I hated how frightened I felt.

"Why?" I demanded. "Why did you want the Denarians stopped? Why send the hobs to kill the Archive? Why recruit me to save the Archive and Marcone in the event that the hobs failed?"

Mab paused, turned, casually showing off the gorgeous curves of her calves, and tilted her head at me. "Nicodemus and his ilk were clearly in violation of my Accords, and obviously planning to abuse them to further his ambition. That was reason enough to see his designs disrupted. And among the Fallen was one with much to answer for to me, personally, for its attack upon my home."

"The Black Council attack on Arctis Tor," I said. "One of them used Hellfire."

Mab showed me her snow-white teeth. "The Watchman and I," Grimalkin mewled for her, "had a common enemy this day. The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive."

I frowned and thought of the silver hand that had batted the fallen angel and his master sorceries around as if he'd been a stuffed practice dummy. "Thorned Namshiel."

Mab's eyes flashed with sudden, cold fury and frost literally formed over every surface of the chapel, including upon my own eyelashes.

"There are others yet who will pay for what they have done," Mab snarled in her own voice. It sounded hideous-not unmelodious, because it was as rich and full and musical as it ever had been. But it was filled with such rage, such fury, such pain and such hate that every vowel clawed at my skin, and every consonant felt like someone taking a staple gun to my ears.

"I am Sidhe," she hissed. "I am the Queen of Air and Darkness. I am Mab." Her chin lifted, her eyes wide and white around the rippling colors of her irises-utterly insane. "And I repay my debts, mortal. All of them."
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EDIT
Also same chapter, after Dresden gets Amoracchius in addition to Fidelacchius
"See? You're not totally hopeless," Bob said. "And hey, you got a new magic sword to custodianize, too? Merlin, eat your heart out; he only got to look after one! And working a case with Uriel! You're hitting the big-time, Harry!"

"I haven't really heard much about Uriel," I said. "I mean I know he's an archangel, but..."
"He's...sort of Old Testament," Bob said. "You know the guy who killed the firstborn children of Egypt? Him. Other than that, well. There's only suspicions. And he isn't the sort to brag. It's always the quiet ones, you know?"

"Heaven has a spook," I said. "And Mab likes his style."

"And he did you a favor!" Bob said brightly. "You just know that can't be good!"

I put my head down on the table and sighed.
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PS:
Molly's family is canonically descended from Charlemagne.
And the Archive is at least five tnousand years old, also mentioned in Small Favor.
 
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[X] Continue the account of the day for one or more of your siblings
-[X] Which ones and how: Daniel, Mathew and Leech.
 
firefrog600 said:
I'm aware lucifer exists any actual feats are pure speculation at best though.
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There is that one WoG from Butcher describing archangels as being able to think galaxies out of existence, but that might not have been meant to be taken literally.

It also doesn't quite line up with the text from the books in places.

Remember the scene with the angel of death that came to collect Shiro's soul? It point blank told Dresden that it was impossible for them to fail their mission; the father of lies himself could show up and would be incapable of taking a soul in their charge.

My assumption is that for DF Angelic grace is the white god's loophole around whatever rules he operates under. The closer they are to his will, the more they benefit from some charm equivalent he has boosting his minions.

Which would keep the power hierarchy intact but still allow significant punch up from normal angels under the right conditions.


uju32 said:
Mab talks about four of them, and outright says she and Uriel had a common interest in disrupting Denarian plans,
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… That might be useful for us to keep in mind here.

The winter fey have beef with us, but it's nothing compared to how pissed Mab is at thorned Namshiel. If we can steal his coin we might be able to buy out our feud by giving her a Denarian to use as a chew toy.

If nothing else I bet you a prepared fey Queen with a grudge can contain those things a lot longer than the Church can.
 
BronzeTongue said:
There is that one WoG from Butcher describing archangels as being able to think galaxies out of existence, but that might not have been meant to be taken literally.

It also doesn't quite line up with the text from the books in places.

Remember the scene with the angel of death that came to collect Shiro's soul? It point blank told Dresden that it was impossible for them to fail their mission; the father of lies himself could show up and would be incapable of taking a soul in their charge.

My assumption is that for DF Angelic grace is the white god's loophole around whatever rules he operates under. The closer they are to his will, the more they benefit from some charm equivalent he has boosting his minions.

Which would keep the power hierarchy intact but still allow significant punch up from normal angels under the right conditions.



… That might be useful for us to keep in mind here.

The winter fey have beef with us, but it's nothing compared to how pissed Mab is at thorned Namshiel. If we can steal his coin we might be able to buy out our feud by giving her a Denarian to use as a chew toy.

If nothing else I bet you a prepared fey Queen with a grudge can contain those things a lot longer than the Church can.
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butcher said that the lowest angel is operating on stuff higher than anything dresdens met in the series. multidimensional bullshit they are. Though honestly qms probably not gonna have it be like that since he clearly doesn't like the multiverse topic as it devalues the protag or something along those lines.
 
Goldfish said:
That's not saying a lot. The Church doesn't have the greatest track record for keeping Denarian coins out of circulation.
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Fair, but even if we don't grade on a curve I think she could still do a good job.

She managed to keep an exaltation trapped in her garden even when a viable host was almost touching it right up until the tree got hit with summer fire. Denarians are good at this stuff, but I'd expect them to get rescued before escaping themselves.

Which will be a lot harder if Mab is directly preparing for them. Her day job is to fight the unspeakable horrors from beyond, and she's being doing it for at least a thousand years by now. Sure the wheels come off a bit in canon, but that's still an impressive streak.

I think she can handle thirty disgruntled pigeons trapped in the Devil's spare change for a few decades at the very least.
 
firefrog600 said:
with how genes work shouldn't almost everyone be descended from charlemagne?
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Definitely not.
Even Genghis Khan is only ancestor to 1 in 200 men, and that dude got around over a much greater expanse of population than old Charly did.

BronzeTongue said:
… That might be useful for us to keep in mind here.
The winter fey have beef with us, but it's nothing compared to how pissed Mab is at thorned Namshiel. If we can steal his coin we might be able to buy out our feud by giving her a Denarian to use as a chew toy.

If nothing else I bet you a prepared fey Queen with a grudge can contain those things a lot longer than the Church can.
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Some of the Winter Fae have beef with us.
Thats not the same thing as Queen Mab having beef with us. Remember that she had Molly kidnapped; Molly didnt do anything to her or her castle. We didnt free Slate either, which would have been a major disruption.

Worst that can be said is that we're ripping off her style by being the supercold semidivine immortal.
If anything, we're probably an object of interest that she can move on the chessboard against her enemies.

If anyone has beef with us its the fetches and their close allies. Because we stabbed them in the face with a demon weapon.
And I will happily stab fetches in the face all day every day.
As long as there's noone of Maeve tier or higher interested its not worth worrying about.
BronzeTongue said:
I think she can handle thirty disgruntled pigeons trapped in the Devil's spare change for a few decades at the very least.
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She has a type advantage against Outsiders that I dont think she has against Fallen angels.
Keeping Outsiders out is her job in a way that jailing Denarians isnt.
And it probably wouldnt be too long before some fell into the hands of a changeling or two.

EDIT
And Im not sure she has beef with Thorned Namshiel.
Note that its Dresden jumping to conclusions there; she doesnt confirm. For all we know it was another Denarian, or she was using Namshiel to some purpose.

We saw what she did when she had beef with the Red Court, and with Nicodemus Archleone; the woman would give memetic Taylor Hebert lessons in gratuitous overkill. Namshiel has been relatively untouched in canon thus far.
 
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Honestly? If it doesn't accomplish anything more than getting Winter off of our back while being slightly more of an inconvenience to the denarians than our current next best option of giving the coin to the Church, I'll still call it a win. Anything to buy us more time against the bigger fish while the magical superweapon in our soul warms up and our power grows is a good thing.

We still have some buildup to do before we can become the sort of one-woman faction that forces the other magical world factions to plan around us. By the time the coin escapes Winter's prison, we should have grown enough to enact a more long-term solution.
 
I wanna enslave dark forces into something good not sure we can ever fully justify it in character especially with our free will upbringing and us now knowing we fucked up with mind altering shit.
 
I recall in addition, there was some word of Jim that the coins are a largely willing tradeoff. The Coin Fallen will only act through their Host, but may act more powerfully through them.

This may change if the coin was rendered actually impossible for a mortal to get to. So their security has to allow for a freewilled mortal to do it unaided.
 
firefrog600 said:
I wanna enslave dark forces into something good not sure we can ever fully justify it in character especially with our free will upbringing and us now knowing we fucked up with mind altering shit.
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Like veekie said, narrative weight.
Enslaving dark forces into something good is not really on the cards in the Dresdenverse cosmology.
bengalqueen said:
Honestly? If it doesn't accomplish anything more than getting Winter off of our back while being slightly more of an inconvenience to the denarians than our current next best option of giving the coin to the Church, I'll still call it a win. Anything to buy us more time against the bigger fish while the magical superweapon in our soul warms up and our power grows is a good thing.

We still have some buildup to do before we can become the sort of one-woman faction that forces the other magical world factions to plan around us. By the time the coin escapes Winter's prison, we should have grown enough to enact a more long-term solution.
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1)Not their job. They wont take it.
And if you somehow forced them to do so, you'll find out that the spirit of a deal and the letter of a deal are two very different things to a fae who doesnt like the deal in question. Nicodemus learned that to his cost.

2)Winter has done deals with Denarians before.
Thats how Nicodemus was able to get Mab to send Dresden to help him burgle Hades' Vault; she owed him a favor. Not that it turned out well for him mind, because manipulating Mab is a dangerous thing.

Anyway, they can take a coin from you, turn around and sell it to another Denarian. Or give it away to some mortal, either as a curse, or as a deal for power. Do remember that the first time we see the Leanansidhe, Dresden attacks her with Amoracchius, whereupon she takes it and gives it away to Bianca of the Red Court.

If they can give away Swords without consequence, coins aint shit.
 
uju32 said:
Like veekie said, narrative weight.
Enslaving dark forces into something good is not really on the cards in the Dresdenverse cosmology.

1)Not their job. They wont take it.
And if you somehow forced them to do so, you'll find out that the spirit of a deal and the letter of a deal are two very different things to a fae who doesnt like the deal in question. Nicodemus learned that to his cost.

2)Winter has done deals with Denarians before.
Thats how Nicodemus was able to get Mab to send Dresden to help him burgle Hades' Vault; she owed him a favor. Not that it turned out well for him mind, because manipulating Mab is a dangerous thing.

Anyway, they can take a coin from you, turn around and sell it to another Denarian. Or give it away to some mortal, either as a curse, or as a deal for power. Do remember that the first time we see the Leanansidhe, Dresden attacks her with Amoracchius, whereupon she takes it and gives it away to Bianca of the Red Court.

If they can give away Swords without consequence, coins aint shit.
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I thought there was a power that lets us enslave things of dark natures like spirits, certain fey, dark gods, demons, black court etc etc? I'm not even talking the coin bullshit just general dark stuff to make ourselves a faction.
 
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