Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X]Plan Phone Tag
-[X] Rest and Recover: 12 hours
--[X] Pick up Mutt from the Gardens and talk to Arlene that we kept our word about the Blampire
--[X] Book connecting hotel suites with bathtubs where everyone else can get some food, shower and rest while you soak and recover Essence. Might be the last time in a while. Bring some bleach.
-[X]HMP the security cameras/hotel computers for early warning
-[X]Phonecall: Call people while in the bleach bathtub, with BSM, ATB, Occult, Etiquette and Empathy Excellencies running and speakerphone conference call with the rest of the party in the living room
--[X] Speak to Big Corey about his vampire problem being dealt with and the much bigger problem in his future
--[X] Speak to Alexander Harrowmont at the University of Las Vegas
--[X] Make an afternoon appointment with Silk
-[X] Cyberdevils: Hack police databases

-[X] Yes
--[X] Adkin himself, he may be old and frail, but he is also the most knowledgeable of the Pallbearers
--[X] Insist he gets a medical tuneup from Lash if he's coming, just in case
--[X] And a disguise
 
Also this isn't creation. People in our world has beliefs in self determination and respct for their own rights.

No amount of social combat is going to allow exalted to wrap the world around their fingers. Its a lot more mature world with mature systems.

Also we have become exceptionally good at inflciting violence as well. Perfects fo run out eventually and blanketing a battle field in burning white phosphorus will burn a lot of essence for almost all exalted.

That too, though to be fair to the Creation-born it is not so much that they were not mature in terms of politics and more that the Exalted after the Usurpation had the starting point of: "We have killed or mutilated the Creator-Gods of this universe, we are now in charge. Also the literal Sun you all need to survive says so." :V
 
To be fair the Great Curse is basically designed to do just that, that is what Limit is: the Exalts keep having flavorful psychotic episodes and since they are cursed from their perspective Everything is Fine (TM) which of course makes the next one easier to rationalize. Even with this rather diabolical bit of sabotage we know that Exalts can check each other and indeed that there was a chance they would have done so at the end of the First Age if the Sidereals had followed the Vision of Gold and the risk paid off. Of course if it had not paid off... Creation would have been begging for the tyranny of Theion and company.

Looking at it from the other direction though even without the Great Curse it is quite hard for an Exalt, especially a Solariod to change their minds since they have high willpower and strong intimacies, not to mention the charms designed to prevent losing in social combat also strengthen their present beliefs whatever they may be.

On the third (mutant?) hand all that stuff about high willpower and strong intimacies also applies to particularly old wizards for good or for ill. Handing 'the power of an Incarnate compressed into the body of a mortal' too exceptional mortals will almost certainly cause chaos, but given enough time things might well find a new equilibrium
I mean, to call out one example: Desus.

The tragedy of Desus/Lillith is that allegedly he wasnt a deliberately evil dude. He was a genuinely great Exalt who was justifiable feted for his ability to negotiate many a deal and stop conflicts, as well as do the more conventional punchy thing. Other members of his Circle, like Brilliant Shattered Ice, wanted in his pants, but he was devoted to his wife Lilith.

He was just so good at social magic that he mindwhammied everyone, including himself, that everything he did was good and right. So his beating Lilith to miscarriage? Justified.
Losing his temper and blinding the behemoth Oliphem? Justified.

Also this isn't creation. People in our world has beliefs in self determination and respct for their own rights.

No amount of social combat is going to allow exalted to wrap the world around their fingers. Its a lot more mature world with mature systems.
With apologies for bringing up reminders of realworld politics, large populations of people have abnegated social and personal freedoms to bog-standard charismatic politicans and conmen. No magic necessary.
You have politicians like Hitler and Mao, POTUS 45, the various American and African televangelists, Indian gurus etc

The idea that modern humans are better equipped to resist Exalted social magics doesnt really pass the sniff test.
Also we have become exceptionally good at inflciting violence as well. Perfects fo run out eventually and blanketing a battle field in burning white phosphorus will burn a lot of essence for almost all exalted.
Not particularly.
Thats environmental damage, and every Celestial Exalt has something to ignore it.
 
Citation needed, about being asshole (and evil) before he exalted. The selection criteria of at least 20% of exalts is "Unconquered Sun entrusts you with a hole mission on the basis of liking your character". And for most others, they tend to statistically gravitate towards selfless people who wish to help others in one way or another.
The Unconquered Sun wasn't picking who exalted, and what he wanted wasn't related to how much of an asshole you were. You can be a brilliant military commander and still beat your kids or have any number of other serious skeletons in your closet. Will look for that citation though.

That gravitation is highly suspect. The Bull of the North raided cities and killed the civilians within. Whatever his issues with the realm that wasn't exactly a selfless thing to do. You can call him a hero to his people and that's true, but that's one of the problems. How many heroes for their people and very little to anyone else does the world have to endure?


If you want to talk that (I don't, I think it's useless), then the first question to ask should be "in a world where afterlife exists, why isn't it moral for Molly to genocide humanity as quickly and as painlessly as possible?" That bad things in life exist is not a reason to stop living.
That's a ridiculous comparison. Not being killed and not being trusted with vast cosmic power aren't the same.
Except the meme is stupid, and doesn't really apply. That's not how increasing one's attributes and abilities works.

Let me ask you this: do you consider First Age a good or bad place for an average mortal to live in, compared to Dresdenverse (Africa, North Korea and hidden realms in NeverNever controlled by inhmuan overlords included)? Because First Age of Exalted is one of the first failure state outcomes we can expect. Most scenarios are better, because they start from far more favorable conditions
The meme is framed as a joke, but the point isn't wrong. Increase someone's raw capacity and they're still themselves. Increasing someone's intelligence doesn't train them or change their biases. There's also a certain amount of localization to your abilities anyway.

If you studied your way to 5 dots in academics at Oxford the first year it was open and in the modern day they'd teach you very different things, and there isn't a skill cap for this sort of thing. This is even relevant to the quest because we had to update our 5 dots of occult because we didn't know things anyone else with that score would. We learned it faster, but that's where bias comes in.

As to if it was good to be a mortal in the first age? I think it was about as good as being a wealthy person's favorite dog.

Ultimately they had no choices in anything, and when their owners decided made poor choices they paid for it without recourse save to hope fate elevated them to the elite. The exalts won't be able to make that happen with the snap of their fingers, but that's the model their basic design pushes towards.

I'd rather not when we have other options.

Especially since the first age isn't our failure state; it's a civil war where exalts with no common ground scatter to the wind and tear the world apart pursuing hundreds of different agenda.
 
Man this whole discussion that any exalt not Molly will end up being another Hitler or Stalin is just... so weird. What can lead to such a world view. Ultimately any one that exalts will be a human with free will born into the Dresden world so ofc there will be less then perfect people that will end up getting one sooner or later. But you know what? That is fine.

Not that Molly is in anyway perfect considering how often people vote to sacrifice people for The Greater Good(tm). And people has been arguing that we should let the Red court do their thing in south America without interference. So yeah, more exalted will not be much worse in the greater scheme of things.
 
Again any exalted that is not willing to join up, with the Social monster that is Molly. We can just kill and approach the next person.
Molly is barely a social monster. I posted the charms a social monster of a solar would have by essence 2, and they'd be a real bitch to deal with.


This is Usum's position for what it's worth.
Wasn't one of our serious backup plans for Man to threaten to force her to kill us and leave the memory of our death imprinted on the exaltation so that it'd be biased against her in all future hosts?
 
Molly is barely a social monster. I posted the charms a social monster of a solar would have by essence 2, and they'd be a real bitch to deal with.
And? We know it will be a Dawn caste, so not somebody that mainlines social skills and ablities. Only a Zenith caste, could possibly have that list of charms at starting level.

They are not going to beat CCC powered social skills.
 
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Man this whole discussion that any exalt not Molly will end up being another Hitler or Stalin is just... so weird. What can lead to such a world view. Ultimately any one that exalts will be a human with free will born into the Dresden world so ofc there will be less then perfect people that will end up getting one sooner or later. But you know what? That is fine.

Not that Molly is in anyway perfect considering how often people vote to sacrifice people for The Greater Good(tm). And people has been arguing that we should let the Red court do their thing in south America without interference. So yeah, more exalted will not be much worse in the greater scheme of things.
Thanks for that.

For my part I have a hard time grasping why anyone thinks giving random people power based on how cool they were being when the exaltations were looking is a good plan.

There is a lot of unpleasant space between literally Stalin and a new messiah.

As to the red court thing; I have no idea what you're talking about. We've spent more time talking about how to successfully sic a demon army on them than defending their existence. We gave the wizards the first 1-2 dots of lore necessary to start that along with an assload of ray guns to use themselves or hand out to people like St. Gile's. Also that whole thing with popping Ortega's head off and taking it home in a doggie bag.

We haven't done more because we just very recently started to get built up enough to act at scale and we're still working on handling all the people actively screwing with us. Like Nemesis, which is a higher priority than the red court in the way a knife to the gut is more important than a broken arm.

Molly being perfect isn't the point anyway; the issue is wether you think the damage the exalted would do is worth it.

"just deal with it" is an awfully clean way to describe putting down an Abyssal running around mind wiping people so that say a Dawn who wants to be the godmobster of the southwest but will fight Cthulhu for it instead of making a deal might help us sometime. Just to name one entirely possible outcome in which everyone who isn't an exalt loses to some degree.
 
I am willing to take the 1,000,000 to 1 chance that they are anything other then a new Stalin. And we can just talk to them into working together. Like littirly only somebody of the same Stalin persuasion cannot be reasoned with.
… I honestly don't have anything to say to this that I haven't already said in regards to the odds, severity, and the inherently authoritarian implications of how exalted operate.

You're picking odds and severities to suit the conclusion you want, and I think if we weren't playing someone who'd have a place in the new elite rather than beneath it you'd be singing a different tune.

Not a lot of new ground here.
 
Again any exalted that is not willing to join up, with the Social monster that is Molly. We can just kill and approach the next person.
Exhibit A.
You're not an Exalt, and you've already found a justification for preemptive murder of people who wont agree with you.
I can very easily see a lot of Exalts make those selfsame judgements.


But which part of Molly's characterization makes you think that she's going to be comfortable running around with Join Me or Die ultimatums? And how the fuck do you expect to hold the loyalty of someone who you made join you at gunpoint?
What exactly stops them betraying you at a critical point?

And? We know it will be a Dawn caste, so not somebody that mainlines social skills and ablities. Only a Zenith caste, could possibly have that list of charms at starting level.
They are not going to beat CCC powered social skills.
A Dawn can spec into social abilities at chargen if he so chooses.
Its just suboptimal.

And he doesnt need to spec into social skills to defeat attempts to persuade him.
The appropriate 3 Intimacies, Willpower 10 and Righteous Lion Defense are enough for your basic Solar social defense suite, combined with a willingness to Join Combat.
 
… I honestly don't have anything to say to this that I haven't already said in regards to the odds, severity, and the inherently authoritarian implications of how exalted operate.

You're picking odds and severities to suit the conclusion you want, and I think if we weren't playing someone who'd have a place in the new elite rather than beneath it you'd be singing a different tune.

Not a lot of new ground here.
People are inherently good in Exalted, it took the Great Curse thousands of years to even get things to the point it did. And even then it was the majority of really bad people where the post post Primordial war Exalted. The one that never knew hardship or limits, after exalting, as they inherit a large chuck of creation, after the Exalted had decided to let each other rule unchecked and without interference.
 
what i gather from this discussion is that some peopöe like the odds,and some dont. in the end the votes will decide,so i dont see the point of further discussion. i really liked the discussion but its been giong in a circle for a while.
 
Man this whole discussion that any exalt not Molly will end up being another Hitler or Stalin is just... so weird. What can lead to such a world view. Ultimately any one that exalts will be a human with free will born into the Dresden world so ofc there will be less then perfect people that will end up getting one sooner or later. But you know what? That is fine.
*Points above*
One of our players is seriously suggesting killing Exalts who wont get with the program
Not Exalts who attacked us, or are actively harming us or others. Just if they wont join up, attack and try to kill them.

Thats just an example.

Not that Molly is in anyway perfect considering how often people vote to sacrifice people for The Greater Good(tm). And people has been arguing that we should let the Red court do their thing in south America without interference. So yeah, more exalted will not be much worse in the greater scheme of things.
No, we have talked about mitigating effects of the Red Court without causing unexpected ripples.
Not just ignoring them.


As for Molly's personal policy? Just as a reminder: It is currently the second week of January 2024.

Molly went and killed Duchess Arianna Ortega and her entourage of elder vampires on 21 November 2006. She met the Fellowship of St Giles the same day. We met Morgan, Ramirez et al on December 10 2006, and we were sending them initial shipments of weapons before the week was out.

Its easy to miss it because updates are daily, and we dont get regular overviews of international politics from external PoVs.
But Molly has been moving extraordinarily fast for a nationstate tier actor with regards to the Vampire War.
People are inherently good in Exalted, it took the Great Curse thousands of years to even get things to the point it did. And even then it was the majority of really bad people where the post post Primordial war Exalted. The one that never knew hardship or limits, after exalting, as they inherit a large chuck of creation, after the Exalted had decided to let each other rule unchecked and without interference.
This is just grossly, egregiously untrue.
 
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The whole debate about the inherent goodness or lack thereof of humanity is why we need to try to steer any Exaltation we release to people we can trust with that power.

That's a short list. I pretty much don't trust anyone but Michael Carpenter with solar level power. Maybe Daniel, because he's young enough and close enough to Molly and has his father as a role model.

Others, even people's favourites like Murphy, don't really qualify to my mind. They don't combine the requisite levels of demonstrated good judgement, recognition of the value of mercy and when not to use violence to solve a problem, and experience. Remember, for example, Murphy hooked up with Kincaid, who as well as hiring himself out as the Archive's bodyguard was also a murderer for hire.
 
[X] uju32

But which part of Molly's characterization makes you think that she's going to be comfortable running around with Join Me or Die ultimatums? And how the fuck do you expect to hold the loyalty of someone who you made join you at gunpoint?
What exactly stops them betraying you at a critical point?

I really don't want to get into this Exalted discussion (which in my opinion has already gotten out of control several times throughout the quest and DP should close this and only let it come back when we actually vote on it, I'm almost completely stopping reading anything between the updates in this arc to get away from it) but I must speak to this point.

In addition to what DP said, which was exactly the same suggestion as Usum in the update, WE are Molly, our ideas and discussions influence Molly's narrative and thinking.

(Her head must be like hell with that same question stuck inside her all the time)

If something suggested is not accepted because it is OCC DP will block it and it has already happened that he used a losing argument in the vote to increase the presence of Usum as the place of ideas that Molly does not like to think about.
 
apologies for bringing up reminders of realworld politics, large populations of people have abnegated social and personal freedoms to bog-standard charismatic politicans and conmen. No magic necessary.
You have politicians like Hitler and Mao, POTUS 45, the various American and African televangelists, Indian gurus etc

The idea that modern humans are better equipped to resist Exalted social magics doesnt really pass the sniff test.
It does if you realise those same people would have had disproportionately more power and less consequences an year ago. Even dictators have to hold sham elections to maintain a sense of legitimacy and even indian gurus are getting punished for commiting crimes. Its not a utopia but there have been qualitative improvements.
Not particularly.
Thats environmental damage, and every Celestial Exalt has something to ignore it.
Not for multiple scenes or forever as far as i remember. And i don't think it counts as an environmental damage if a jet ia dropping it at your head.
 
Capacity for great good AND evil.
The same Hercules who killed the Hydra is also the same person who wiped out a royal family and sacked their city because the father would not give him his daughter as a concubine.

Canon Exalted heroes dont overcome their flaws.
Thats like a major ongoing theme of the series.
You keep pushing this phrase like it means anything. Yes, everyone is capable of good and evil. Heroes, for the most part, do good, and when they do evil, they seek atonement. Their default mode of operation is defending civilization.
Does empowering Kim Jong Un empower the people of North Korea?
If the opposite is that vampires will keep using them as livestock? There's at least an argument to be made, that yes, it does.
This is why my preferred solution isn't to do nothing, it's to empower mortal civilization so that humans finally get a seat at the table in their own name and not as someone's subjects.

Remember the Shih? They're an ideal, and Holden actually avoided converting some of their rules because he wanted a nerf:
Except this doesn't work, or works worse than empowering exalts. Because it takes time to spread. And in that time, you are creating a privileged class, and opposition gets a say. How are shih masters better than exalts? Why wouldn't they form a tyrannical ruling class? Why are all of your objections to exalts not also applicable to the Shih? What is the difference? That it takes time and effort to become one? But that just means that you would want a return on that investment - and power over mortals is a good return. That it is something that mortals can be trained in? Not everyone has a talent, and some would be much greater than others, and, oh, not everyone is willing to teach everyone. A south korean shih master will be unlikely to teach Kim Jong Un, don't you agree?

And exalts are capable of empowering mortals. Right now we have designs that make people immortal and ones that make them knock-off dragonblooded.

So, again, I don't see any advantage in your plan, and all the disadvantages.
Molly is in a very privileged position right now, and can choose one of two things. To set off a hand grenade that will ultimately change the head under the crown at humanity's expense but subjugated them just the same, or set things in motion so that when Mab sits down with a representative of humanity next it isn't because god or fate put them there but because regular people did. Something that she had to treat with respect because they be too much power to leave any other choice.
You keep speaking about "release all the exalts into the wild, and let the White God sort them out". We haven't been talking about that in a long time. You are just keeping the strawman up. And no, second option is not viable, because that's not going to happen. Opposition gets a say, people get a say. Or, rather, it did happen already in a way - white council gets a say in supernatural politics. Why wouldn't strongly empowered shih be another white council? Or illuminati, or some other type of shadow cabal?
The Unconquered Sun wasn't picking who exalted, and what he wanted wasn't related to how much of an asshole you were. You can be a brilliant military commander and still beat your kids or have any number of other serious skeletons in your closet. Will look for that citation though.
Citation needed. Because I provided direct, textual canon counter-examples of how Zeniths are chosen on the specific criteria of "how much of not an asshole you are, and how righteous you are".
That gravitation is highly suspect. The Bull of the North raided cities and killed the civilians within. Whatever his issues with the realm that wasn't exactly a selfless thing to do. You can call him a hero to his people and that's true, but that's one of the problems. How many heroes for their people and very little to anyone else does the world have to endure?
I would very much like directions to the information about how life changed for civilians in the territories he conquered in order to judge him. And if he was completely uninterested in any sort of negotiation.
Molly is barely a social monster. I posted the charms a social monster of a solar would have by essence 2, and they'd be a real bitch to deal with.
Why does it matter what kind of social monster they would be by essence 2? What matters is who they are at chargen. Because that's when we will be talking to them, and influencing them. And, also, a Dawn. Not Eclipse, and not Zenith. If they are not minmaxing against social combat specifically, chances are they are much less of a monster than you think.
There is a lot of unpleasant space between literally Stalin and a new messiah.
You don't need a new messiah. Merely a good, heroic person. That's the core difference in our positions, I think, and why I keep thinking your misanthropic.


EDIT: regarding the vote.

@Yog You don't want to address Silk?
I admit to forgetting who that is, sorry.
2) 2 hours to disguise Adkins, get back to the Hanging Gardens for our local guide Mutt, talk to Arlene about Cobbler being dead and how she can help, then drive to and book a hotel suite.
AND call home to reassure them.
Can, and should, be done in parallel to our recovery. We have four people, three of them capable of producing supernaturally good disguises.
1) Dont split the party in hostile territory. Thats like Murder Hobo 101.

Nobody here should be talking to any of these other people without Molly anyway; she has far and away the best social senses around when she's willing to burn Essence.
And she's the only one here with a surprise negator should a fight/ambush break out.

There are still almost 20 people we know of who have Sandra's hooks in their heads after all; running into a bunch of people at Harrowmont's with modded ARs could cost us people.

2) Opening a Hellgate in Las Vegas to the Brass Courts is magically noisy.
Doing so tells everyone in the Las Vegas area where Molly is lodging; do remember that when Molly showed up in Henderson, it took less than an hour for a tracker team to show up.

This is to be avoided unless we are eschewing subtlety altogether.

3)Going into our Hell to rest cuts us off from affecting events in Las Vegas for almost half a day.
Thats a bad plan.
You're basically asking to come back and find everything on fire.

4) This is a metro area of 2.7 million people, not an empty wilderness in the boonies.
Explosives of any sort as part of your plans are a hilariously bad idea even if you were a random Exalt, instead of specifically Molly Carpenter, daughter of Michael and Charity and not a fan of collateral damage.

Especially since the city is already on edge after *someone* used a bunch of RPGs on the Vegas Strip last night.

5)We can find Sandra's current location with a Crown question.
Thats not the same thing as being able to follow her around the city.
And she's paranoid enough to be on the move.
1) Three others are also quite capable, and time is more important right now.

2) Barely of a blip of a one, not worth a priority dispatch of strong forces, it seems. And this is why others are not staying in the same place as us when we port

3) Sandra is planning to do stuff only on the next day. Rest and recovery are more important.

4) It's a godzilla threshold solution, like Tony Stark flying a nuke through the portal. It might be required. And I checked, Davy Crocket's blast radius is manageable and definitely preferable to continent-scale devastation.

5) We can ask for her plans, or for the intended ritual area (or a list of areas she thinks she can do her thing in, in descending order of preference). We, essentially, can read her mind once.
 
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You keep pushing this phrase like it means anything. Yes, everyone is capable of good and evil. Heroes, for the most part, do good, and when they do evil, they seek atonement. Their default mode of operation is defending civilization.
....
You know what?
I've been asked to drop it for the meantime, so I will.


I admit to forgetting who that is, sorry.
Silk is the sorceress who owns and runs Club Xanadu, which is a place of power in the city, and the local safe meeting spot for a lot of unaligned magic users and other supernaturals. Not neutral, but safe.
She's the one who is on speaking terms with at least one Rampire. We saw her in our vision, and Arlene mentioned her.

We want to know whats happening with the Red Court and specifically the Dragon, she's a good place to start.
If whatever Sandra is doing requires more magic users like Kattrin's ritual did, asking around her club for regulars who are either dead or missing is also a great place to start.


Can, and should, be done in parallel to our recovery. We have four people, three of them capable of producing supernaturally good disguises.
You are trying to persuade a 100-plus year old man to do shit that he might find undignified.
I assure you from personal experience that you need Molly, your best diplomat on the scene.
And I dont think time doing so counts as resting.

1) Three others are also quite capable, and time is more important right now.
Molly explicitly has the best, and most reliable social Perception rolls in this group, even before ATB or Excellencies, simply because Empathy is a Key Ability for her, meaning she cant botch.

As we just saw with Fischer, Lash, our secondbest diplomat, can fumble hard, because social abilities are not Key for her.
And Lydia doesnt have the dice pool or the Essence to burn willy nilly on Manipulation Excellencies.


2) Barely of a blip of a one, not worth a priority dispatch of strong forces, it seems. And this is why others are not staying in the same place as us when we port
At the time Molly showed up, at least one senior Whampire had been publicly staked and another(Mayeda) was missing, presumed dead.
And thats just what we know of on the Whampire side.

After something like that, you dont risk valuable operatives blind.
You send mooks with a phone to eyeball the area and get their hands on test sample..

Besides.
A forty minute response time is much better than the several day response time it took the White Council to decide to further look into the Hellgate that opened in Chicago.



3) Sandra is planning to do stuff only on the next day. Rest and recovery are more important.
The final planned climax of her plan is in two nights hence, at midnight.
That doesnt mean that preliminary steps wont take place in the interim.
If she successfully advances an element of her plan in the interim, it makes our job harder.

See Splattercon for an example of how shit could turn out. Or even the Red Room Murders.

If we are out here in Las Vegas, we can sense and respond if its important enough.
Whether its showing up ourself, or asking other people like Arlene to respond in our place if they can handle it.


4) It's a godzilla threshold solution, like Tony Stark flying a nuke through the portal. It might be required. And I checked, Davy Crocket's blast radius is manageable and definitely preferable to continent-scale devastation.
Conventional explosives against a non-conventional opponent strikes me as utterly useless, for much the same reason that most weapons cant harm spirits. A nuke maybe, but not a conventional bomb.
Dont bring a knife to a gunfight.


And no, it isnt. For comparison:
GBU/43 MOAB bunkerbuster said:
THAT is a 10-ton yield conventional bomb for the USAF.

For comparison? The Oklahoma City truck bombing(you can find pics on Google) was, prior to 9/11, the largest terrorist attack in the US, and it deployed an improvised explosive yield of around 4000 pounds/1.8 tons of TNT, or a little under 9% the nominal yield of a Davy Crockett. In a city with roughly 25% the population density of Vegas.

Its effects were, and I quote:
Wikipedia said:
Perpetrated by two anti-government extremists and white supremacists,[1][2] Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the bombing occurred at 9:02 a.m. and killed 168 people, injured 680, and destroyed more than one-third of the building, which had to be demolished. The blast destroyed or damaged 324 other buildings within a 16-block radius, shattered glass in 258 buildings, and destroyed 86 cars,[3][4] causing an estimated $652 million worth of damage

Bombs, especially big ones, are not precision weapons; the US govt has the minimum outdoor evacuation range distance for a bomb in the 10-ton range as being around 2 km radius.

You do not use them in a populated area if you do not want to kill a fuckton of people, whether its directly, through damaging infrastructure, or causing a stampede.

Especially since, given the nature of a lot of black magic and black-magic adjacent ritual magic, human death and suffering and panic might very well be an integral part of what she's doing.
Or might well supercharge the process, like how Ethniu stoked panic in Chicago to make it easier to use the Eye in BG.

Nevermind the blowback of detonating something that size in a major city, less than ten miles from a major USAF base.
None of us want to deal with that shit.


5) We can ask for her plans, or for the intended ritual area (or a list of areas she thinks she can do her thing in, in descending order of preference). We, essentially, can read her mind once.
We get ONE question.
We dont get followup, which as Seeker's coven demonstrated when we captured his first spy, can change rapidly.

Sandra might not even know the full details of the plan in play if there's a senior Outsider in close coordination with her, feeding her information in bursts as an information security measure.
The more information we gather, the more we narrow things down, the better we can target the Crown.
 
Current tally
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Jan 22, 2024 at 3:01 AM, finished with 63 posts and 10 votes.

  • [X]Plan Phone Tag
    -[X] Rest and Recover: 12 hours
    --[X] Pick up Mutt from the Gardens and talk to Arlene that we kept our word about the Blampire
    --[X] Book connecting hotel suites with bathtubs where everyone else can get some food, shower and rest while you soak and recover Essence. Might be the last time in a while. Bring some bleach.
    -[X]HMP the security cameras/hotel computers for early warning
    -[X]Phonecall: Call people while in the bleach bathtub, with BSM, ATB, Occult, Etiquette and Empathy Excellencies running and speakerphone conference call with the rest of the party in the living room
    --[X] Speak to Big Corey about his vampire problem being dealt with and the much bigger problem in his future
    --[X] Speak to Alexander Harrowmont at the University of Las Vegas
    --[X] Make an afternoon appointment with Silk
    -[X] Cyberdevils: Hack police databases
    -[X] Yes
    --[X] Adkin himself, he may be old and frail, but he is also the most knowledgeable of the Pallbearers
    --[X] Insist he gets a medical tuneup from Lash if he's coming, just in case
    --[X] And a disguise
    [X] Plan Spiritual retreat
    -[X] Call people
    --[X] Talk to Arlene that we kept our word about the Blampire
    ---[X] Ask her to help arranging a meeting with Charon
    --[X] Speak to Big Corey about his vampire problem being dealt with and the much bigger problem in his future
    -[X] Molly: Rest and Recover 9 hours or less if we recover quicker
    --[X] Book connecting hotel suites
    ---[X]HMP the security cameras/hotel computers to see who, if anyone, comes looking
    --[X] Actually retreat into your kingdom
    ---[X] Do healing while under observation and what help medicae of our kingdom can provide. Even if they can't help now, the knowledge they gain will be helpful later
    ---[X] Get some heavy duty explosives brought, in case you really need to blow something up. Up to a davy crocket load (~ 20 t of TNT equivalent)
    -[X] Cyberdevils: Hack police databases and setup several kingdom exit enabling music over the city
    -[X] Everyone else, while Molly recovers
    --[X] Speak to Alexander Harrowmont at the University of Las Vegas
    --[X] Rest somewhere which doesn't require booking and deals in cash, or in any of your ally bases
    [X] Yes
    -[X] Adkin himself, he may be old and frail, but he is also the most knowledgeable of the Pallbearers
    --[X] Offer he gets a medical tuneup from Lash if he's coming, just in case
    --[X] And a disguise
 
[X] uju32



I really don't want to get into this Exalted discussion (which in my opinion has already gotten out of control several times throughout the quest and DP should close this and only let it come back when we actually vote on it, I'm almost completely stopping reading anything between the updates in this arc to get away from it) but I must speak to this point.

In addition to what DP said, which was exactly the same suggestion as Usum in the update, WE are Molly, our ideas and discussions influence Molly's narrative and thinking.

(Her head must be like hell with that same question stuck inside her all the time)

If something suggested is not accepted because it is OCC DP will block it and it has already happened that he used a losing argument in the vote to increase the presence of Usum as the place of ideas that Molly does not like to think about.

I do not like to stifle discussion, particularly if it is something that makes sense for Molly to worry about like letting Exaltations loose in the world, but it might be worth you guys considering the practicalities of the matter. Right now the only way you have to set the Solar-Abyssal pair into the world is to let vast swaths of the continent become a desert and probably the destruction of Las Vegas. Allowing that is not really IC so step one for all plans no matter what you want to do with the Exaltation is to stop Sandra and secure the idol.
 
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