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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DragonParadox said:
That is a fair point he has seen the irrationality of summer first hand, that would put him off. Though I would not say loyalty above principles is alien to him, it is one of his core faults. How did he put it to Uriel 'me and my daughter will roast marshmallows among the ruins as the world burns'. Something like that, Harry has not had the Ghost Story moment of character development yet.
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I dont think it is.

His reaction to finding out that Senior Council member Ebenezar McCoy, the man who helped him establish a lot of his foundational principles surrounding magic, was the Blackstaff, was cutting the man off for several years, despite his personally rather precarious political position.

He refused to take up the Coin despite its potentially helping him fix the Susan vampire problem for good.
He salvaged Binder from the vicinity of Lara murdering Madeline Raith.
He stopped defending himself against Morgan in Dead Beat as a cold calculation to preserve effort against the Darkhallow.

There's usually a fair bit more nuance, of course; he's human, not a robot.
But this is still the guy who risked his life, the life of his brother, and the life of the girl who he was mentoring, for the sake of Morgan, his old probation officer.

He usually falls on the side of principle than not.
Mind you, principle isnt always the same thing as legality.


As for Changes? There were a lot of decisionmaking under pressure in that book, that wouldnt have happened otherwise .

I mean, Dresden used Molly, the apprentice he was responsible for, a psychic sensitive who was the daughter of a close friend who had saved his life to arrange his own assassination. And he made no provisions for her, despite her being under the Doom of Damocles and subject to execution if her master died or went missing with no replacement.

That's....not the sort of thing he'd do in his right mind.
 
uju32 said:
As for Changes? There were a lot of decisionmaking under pressure in that book, that wouldnt have happened otherwise .

I mean, Dresden used Molly, the apprentice he was responsible for, a psychic sensitive who was the daughter of a close friend who had saved his life to arrange his own assassination. And he made no provisions for her, despite her being under the Doom of Damocles and subject to execution if her master went missing.

That's....not the sort of
thing he'd do in his right mind.
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I think we may just disagree on what pressure does to people. I think, it does not change people, it reveals parts of themselves they would rather hide, even from themselves. You see the temptation as far back as Summer Knight with the Unraveling, something he could use on Susan. If Susan had been right there in front of him could he have chosen not to make her human again? I do not know and I do not think he would.

Pre-Changes when the excrement hits the rotary wind dispenser Harry is the kind of person who will chose loyalty over principles. To be honest I am not even sure if it stuck in Ghost Story, we would have to see him under similar pressure and making the opposite choice.
 
DragonParadox said:
I think we may just disagree on what pressure does to people. I think, it does not change people, it reveals parts of themselves they would rather hide, even from themselves. You see the temptation as far back as Summer Knight with the Unraveling, something he could use on Susan. If Susan had been right there in front of him could he have chosen not to make her human again? I do not know and I do not think he would.

Pre-Changes when the excrement hits the rotary wind dispenser Harry is the kind of person who will chose loyalty over principles. To be honest I am not even sure if it stuck in Ghost Story, we would have to see him under similar pressure and making the opposite choice.
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Agree to disagree.

Real life has different outcomes, of course.
But in the Dresden Files? Its canon that circumstances can result in people doing stuff they would not usually do.
Remember this?
He gained his knees and swung again, and I had all I could do to lift the sheathed sword and fend off the strike. Blow after blow rained down on me, and there was no time to call upon my power, no opportunity to so much as rise to my knees—
Until a size-fourteen work boot hit Father Douglas in the chest and threw him back.
Michael stood over me, an aluminum baseball bat in his right hand. He put out his other hand, and I slapped Amoracchius into it. He gripped it midblade, like some kind of giant crucifix, and, with his bat held in a guard position, limped toward Father Douglas. The priest stared at Michael with wide eyes. "Stay back," he said. "I don't want to hurt you."
"Who says you're able to?" Michael rumbled. "Put down the sword, and I'll let you go."
Douglas stared at him with those cold grey eyes. "I can't do that."
"Then I'll put you down and take the sword anyway. It's over, Roarke. You just don't realize it yet."
Father Douglas wasted no more time on talk, but came at Michael, the katana whirling.
Michael batted (no pun intended) the attack aside like a cat swatting down moths, the baseball bat spinning.
"Slow," he said. "Too slow to hit a half-blind cripple. You don't know the first thing about what it means to bear a sword."
Douglas snarled and came at him again. Michael defeated this attack, too, with contemptuous ease, and followed it by smacking Douglas across one cheek with the hilt of the sheathed sword.
"It means sacrifice," Michael said as Douglas reeled. "It means forgetting about yourself, and what you want. It means putting your faith in the Lord God Almighty." He swung a pair of blows, which Douglas defended against, barely—but the third, a straight thrust with the baseball bat's tip, drove home into his solar plexus. Douglas staggered to one knee.
"You abandoned your duty," Douglas gasped. "The world grows darker by the day. People cry out for our help—and you would have the swords sit with this creature of witchcraft and deceit?"
"You arrogant child," Michael snarled. "The Almighty Himself has made His will known. If you are a man of faith, then you must abide by it."
"You have been lied to," Douglas said. "How could God ignore His people when they need His protection so badly?"
"That is not for us to know!" Michael shouted. "Don't you see, you fool? We are only men. We see only in one place at one time. The Lord knows all that might be. Would you presume to say that you know better than our God what should be done with the swords?"
Douglas stared at Michael.
"Are you stupid enough to believe that He would want you to cast aside your beliefs to impose your will upon the world? Do you think He wants you to murder decent men and abduct innocent children?" The bat struck Fidelacchius from Douglas's hands, and Michael followed it with a pair of crushing blows, one to the shoulder and one to the knee. Douglas went down to the sand in a heap.
"Look at yourself," Michael said, his words hard and merciless. "Look at what you have done in God's name. Look at the bruises on my daughter's arms, at the blood on my friend's face, and then tell me which of us has been deceived."
Again, the bat swept down, and Douglas fell senseless to the sand.
Michael stood over the man for a moment, his entire body shaking, the bat still upraised.
"Michael," I said quietly.
"He hurt my little girl, Harry." His voice shook with barely repressed rage.
"He isn't going to hurt her now," I said.
"He hurt my little girl."
"Michael," I said, gently, "you can't. If this is how it has to be, I'll do it. But you can't, man."
His eyes shifted back toward me for just a second.
"Easy, easy," I told him. "We're done here. We're done."
He stared for another long, silent moment. Then he lowered the bat, very slowly, and bowed his head. He stood there for a minute, his chest heaving, and then dropped the bat. He settled down onto the sand with a wince.
I got up and collected Fidelacchius, returning it to its sheath.
"Thank you," Michael said quietly. He offered me Amoracchius' hilt.
"Are you sure?" I asked.
He nodded, smiling wearily. "Yes."
I took the sword and looked at Douglas. "What do we do with him?"
Michael stared at him silently for a moment. In the background, we could hear emergency vehicles arriving to attend to the aftermath of the rooftop explosion. "We'll bring him with us," Michael said. "The Church will deal with its own."
I grunted. "That smells an awful lot like predestination to me. What if those people choose something different?"
"It's a complex issue," Jake admitted. "But think of the course of the future as, oh, flowing water. If you know the lay of the land, you can make a good guess where it's going. Now, someone can always come along and dig a ditch and change that flow of water—but honestly, you'd be shocked how seldom people truly choose to exercise their will within their lives."
I grunted. "What about second baseperson Kelly? I saved her life, too?"
"No. But you made a young woman feel better in a moment where she felt as though she didn't have anyone she could talk to. Just a few kind words. But it's going to make her think about the difference those words made. She's got a good chance of winding up as a counselor to her fellow man. The five minutes of kindness you showed her is going to help thousands of others." He spread his hands. "And that only takes into account the past day. Despair and pain were averted, loss and tragedy thwarted. Do you think you haven't struck a blow for the light, Warrior?"
"Um . . ."
"And last but not least, let's not forget Michael," he said. "He's a good man, but where his children are involved, he can be completely irrational. He was a hairbreadth from losing control when he stood over Douglas on the beach. Your words, your presence, your will helped him to choose mercy over vengeance."
I just stared at him for a moment. "But . . . I didn't actually mean to do any of that."
He smiled. "But you chose the actions that led to it. No one forced you to do it. And to those people, what you did saved them from danger as real as any creature of the night." He turned to look down at the church below and pursed his lips. "People have far more power than they realize, if they would only choose to use it. Michael might not be cutting demons with a sword anymore, Harry. But don't think for a second that he isn't still fighting the good fight. It's just harder for you to see the results from down here."
Michael Carpenter himself came close to beating the guy's head in after knocking him unconscious.
This was the renegade priest who put a bomb on Leech to get Dresden to give him the Swords.

And I think we can both agree Michael generally has a more level head than Dresden does.
If nothing else, he's significantly older, with more life experience.
 
uju32 said:
Agree to disagree.

Real life has different outcomes, of course.
But in the Dresden Files? Its canon that circumstances can result in people doing stuff they would not usually do.
Remember this?
He gained his knees and swung again, and I had all I could do to lift the sheathed sword and fend off the strike. Blow after blow rained down on me, and there was no time to call upon my power, no opportunity to so much as rise to my knees—
Until a size-fourteen work boot hit Father Douglas in the chest and threw him back.
Michael stood over me, an aluminum baseball bat in his right hand. He put out his other hand, and I slapped Amoracchius into it. He gripped it midblade, like some kind of giant crucifix, and, with his bat held in a guard position, limped toward Father Douglas. The priest stared at Michael with wide eyes. "Stay back," he said. "I don't want to hurt you."
"Who says you're able to?" Michael rumbled. "Put down the sword, and I'll let you go."
Douglas stared at him with those cold grey eyes. "I can't do that."
"Then I'll put you down and take the sword anyway. It's over, Roarke. You just don't realize it yet."
Father Douglas wasted no more time on talk, but came at Michael, the katana whirling.
Michael batted (no pun intended) the attack aside like a cat swatting down moths, the baseball bat spinning.
"Slow," he said. "Too slow to hit a half-blind cripple. You don't know the first thing about what it means to bear a sword."
Douglas snarled and came at him again. Michael defeated this attack, too, with contemptuous ease, and followed it by smacking Douglas across one cheek with the hilt of the sheathed sword.
"It means sacrifice," Michael said as Douglas reeled. "It means forgetting about yourself, and what you want. It means putting your faith in the Lord God Almighty." He swung a pair of blows, which Douglas defended against, barely—but the third, a straight thrust with the baseball bat's tip, drove home into his solar plexus. Douglas staggered to one knee.
"You abandoned your duty," Douglas gasped. "The world grows darker by the day. People cry out for our help—and you would have the swords sit with this creature of witchcraft and deceit?"
"You arrogant child," Michael snarled. "The Almighty Himself has made His will known. If you are a man of faith, then you must abide by it."
"You have been lied to," Douglas said. "How could God ignore His people when they need His protection so badly?"
"That is not for us to know!" Michael shouted. "Don't you see, you fool? We are only men. We see only in one place at one time. The Lord knows all that might be. Would you presume to say that you know better than our God what should be done with the swords?"
Douglas stared at Michael.
"Are you stupid enough to believe that He would want you to cast aside your beliefs to impose your will upon the world? Do you think He wants you to murder decent men and abduct innocent children?" The bat struck Fidelacchius from Douglas's hands, and Michael followed it with a pair of crushing blows, one to the shoulder and one to the knee. Douglas went down to the sand in a heap.
"Look at yourself," Michael said, his words hard and merciless. "Look at what you have done in God's name. Look at the bruises on my daughter's arms, at the blood on my friend's face, and then tell me which of us has been deceived."
Again, the bat swept down, and Douglas fell senseless to the sand.
Michael stood over the man for a moment, his entire body shaking, the bat still upraised.
"Michael," I said quietly.
"He hurt my little girl, Harry." His voice shook with barely repressed rage.
"He isn't going to hurt her now," I said.
"He hurt my little girl."
"Michael," I said, gently, "you can't. If this is how it has to be, I'll do it. But you can't, man."
His eyes shifted back toward me for just a second.
"Easy, easy," I told him. "We're done here. We're done."
He stared for another long, silent moment. Then he lowered the bat, very slowly, and bowed his head. He stood there for a minute, his chest heaving, and then dropped the bat. He settled down onto the sand with a wince.
I got up and collected Fidelacchius, returning it to its sheath.
"Thank you," Michael said quietly. He offered me Amoracchius' hilt.
"Are you sure?" I asked.
He nodded, smiling wearily. "Yes."
I took the sword and looked at Douglas. "What do we do with him?"
Michael stared at him silently for a moment. In the background, we could hear emergency vehicles arriving to attend to the aftermath of the rooftop explosion. "We'll bring him with us," Michael said. "The Church will deal with its own."
I grunted. "That smells an awful lot like predestination to me. What if those people choose something different?"
"It's a complex issue," Jake admitted. "But think of the course of the future as, oh, flowing water. If you know the lay of the land, you can make a good guess where it's going. Now, someone can always come along and dig a ditch and change that flow of water—but honestly, you'd be shocked how seldom people truly choose to exercise their will within their lives."
I grunted. "What about second baseperson Kelly? I saved her life, too?"
"No. But you made a young woman feel better in a moment where she felt as though she didn't have anyone she could talk to. Just a few kind words. But it's going to make her think about the difference those words made. She's got a good chance of winding up as a counselor to her fellow man. The five minutes of kindness you showed her is going to help thousands of others." He spread his hands. "And that only takes into account the past day. Despair and pain were averted, loss and tragedy thwarted. Do you think you haven't struck a blow for the light, Warrior?"
"Um . . ."
"And last but not least, let's not forget Michael," he said. "He's a good man, but where his children are involved, he can be completely irrational. He was a hairbreadth from losing control when he stood over Douglas on the beach. Your words, your presence, your will helped him to choose mercy over vengeance."
I just stared at him for a moment. "But . . . I didn't actually mean to do any of that."
He smiled. "But you chose the actions that led to it. No one forced you to do it. And to those people, what you did saved them from danger as real as any creature of the night." He turned to look down at the church below and pursed his lips. "People have far more power than they realize, if they would only choose to use it. Michael might not be cutting demons with a sword anymore, Harry. But don't think for a second that he isn't still fighting the good fight. It's just harder for you to see the results from down here."
Michael Carpenter himself came close to beating the guy's head in after knocking him unconscious.
This was the renegade priest who put a bomb on Leech to get Dresden to give him the Swords.

And I think we can both agree Michael generally has a more level head than Dresden does.
If nothing else, he's significantly older, with more life experience.
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About the Uriel scene, note that he calls Michael 'irrational about his children', he does not say 'he was irrational about it this one time and now he is all good'. If you put Michael in that same position again or a similar one and he might still cave a man's head in.

Anyway Vote closed. Speaking of Michael interlude with him incoming, though not really about him
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 5, 2023 at 2:16 PM, finished with 31 posts and 15 votes.
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Arc 11 Interlude 1: Of Faith and Faustus
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    • Of Faith and Faustus ​

    5th of January 2007 A.D.

    Michael Carpenter was a very hard man to shock, surprise the last six months had been a roller coaster of surprises, highs and lows alike, but shock in that most primal sense, flight, fight or freeze was something he had worked diligently to avoid. Carrying around a sword required judgement, wisdom not only of the head, but the heart and both were in short supply when the adrenaline took the wheel.

    Upon stepping out from under the cream brick arch of Cypress Hills Cemetery, the trees for which it had been named swaying in the wind, among the whispering crowd of shades that one could just about see out of the corner of the eye, swarming and swooning over Lydia he had thought nothing of the fact that the girl had wanted to stick around and ask the dead if they knew anything about Katherine, her friends or any unusual doings of the Summer Court. After all Michael himself had some contacts from the Holy Order while Harry tried to get in contact with 'the only wizard in the city'. From the rather dire tone Michael guessed his friend did not expect to get much usable information out of whoever that was, but that was pretty much a given. 'Wizard' may arise from 'wise' but in the knight's experience those who bore it were even more prone to keep secrets than to know them.

    Neither church not wizard's abode were a good fit for the fourth member of their small company so they had all come to an accord to leave her with Lydia. Granted Michael did feel somewhat ill at ease leaving a seventeen year old in the company of what had been until less than two weeks ago a face for the Fallen, but the words of the Archangel still rang clear in memory, everyone was capable of redemption, if only they would accept they are. Underneath all the flirting and the teasing of poor Harry and the uncomfortably dark humor Tiffany had started to walk down that path. Who was he to doubt that she could do it?

    Things had not gone well, Father Perez had died recently and upon his death the local diocese had discovered inconsistencies in the parish finances. The resulting investigations had set up a fire-keg of anger and accusations in the community, one which Michael had almost been the unwitting spark when he showed up as 'a friend' of a kind the elderly deacon had seen a time or two before, though without being in the know about the Holy Order, much less the Swords of the Cross. It was a very convenient thing, a very human thing to blame your woes on an outsider, even if it had taken up four hours of his time to extricate himself out of the situation without having the police called on him...

    Part of him wished he could have told a comforting lie about the money being part of secret expenses on behalf of the Church, but if that had been the case someone would have been here to clean it up. Men of the cloth were just as fallible as any other. All one could do is pray for the soul now given over to the judgement of God.

    In was in that contemplative state of mind that Michael made his way to the Shake Shack they had chosen to meet back again that evening only to hear in a far too cheerful young voice voice: "Alright I'm happy with that. Keep in mind if you try to control or harm me with this I will hunt you down put you in the ground. I'm a dab hand at that."

    "Understood," comes the very serious reply of one Tiffany MacNeil and a young demigod and a once-demon as old as the world shake hands over over pair of ShackBurgers with a side of fries...

    Lydia has made a pact with Lash. Her Faith Potential is very high: Four (4) and Lash is only keeping a single faith point for her regeneration and using the other Three (3) for investments:

    What does Lydia choose:

    -[] A point of Faith can be converted into 10 freebie points. These points can be used to buy or improve traits such as Attributes, Abilities or Willpower. They cannot be used for improving Backgrounds.
    -[] +1 Attribute 5 freebie points
    -[] +1 Ability 2 freebie points
    -[] +1 Willpower 1 freebie point

    -[] One point of Faith can be used to impart one of the demon's inherent powers, such as immunity to mind-control. The mortal permanently benefits from this power, rolling Willpower (difficulty 7) to activate its effects.
    -[] Immunity to Mind Control
    -[] Immunity to Possession
    -[] Resistance to Illusion: Roll Perception+Awareness (Dif 7) if in the presence of any illusions or supernatural concealment. If the roll is successful they see through the artifice.
    -[] Healing: Spend one Essence to heal either one level of Lethal Damage or all Bashing Damage, this takes a turn of full concentration without other actions
    -[] Supernatural Awareness: Roll Perception+Awareness (Dif 7) to notice the spiritual feeling of a place (Places of loss, pain, etc.) and to notice nearby magical effects, demonic power etc. Just assume they always have a slightly weaker version of the Sight active.

    [] One or more points of Faith can be used to give the mortal a limited evocation from the demon's lore. This gift costs one to five Faith points, depending on the level of the evocation in question (i.e., a three-dot evocation would cost the mortal three of her Faith points.) To perform the evocation, the mortal must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 8), with the number of successes determining the scope and effect of the evocation.
    -[] Write in (Lores: Longing 2, Lore of Light 1, Lore of Flesh 5)

    [] One point of Faith bestows one of the enhancements of the demon's apocalyptic form. To benefit from the enhancement, the mortal must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 6). Success allows the mortal to use the enhancement for a scene. The demon can bestow more than one enhancement, but he must spend a point of Faith on each. Lash can impart one of their high-Torment special abilities if desired at the cost of a temporary Torment point.
    -[] Low Torment: Enhanced Social Traits, grace, poise and beauty is now more than merely human. +2 Charisma, +1 Manipulation, +2 Appearance
    -[] Low Torment: Marble Flesh, +4 Soak Dice Against all damage
    -[] Low Torment: Wings, allow flight at three times land speed
    -[] Low Torment: Improved Dexterity, +2 Dexterity
    -[] High Torment: Claws: Deal Str +2 Aggravated damage
    -[] High Torment: Claws: Mist-Wreathed: +2 Difficulty on ranged attacks +1 on melee attacks against the bearer of the cloack of mist
    -[] High Torment: Claws: Relentless: Unaffected by fatigue or hunger in this form and can move forward inexhaustibly
    -[] High Torment: Claws: Enhanced Perception: +2 Perception

    OOC: So here's a riddle for you, is the girl who had previously been willing to help her thoroughly mortal boyfriend go on a Wyld Quest willing to make a deal with the local newly made not-really-a-Fallen-Angel-incarna she is quite sure she could beat to death if it came to it? Yes the answer is yes. Lydia has noticed that she is a little weak to keep up with Molly as well after all. If you had gone to New York she would have asked you if you think this is a good idea, but as is you do get to pick what she gets for mechanical balance reasons out of character, same reason you do her level ups.
     
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    • Well, yes. Lydia is smart. This is a great idea. This is about as universally free as powerups come in this setting. Lash isn't going to mess with Lydia because we brought her into this world and if push came to shove we could take her back out of it.

    Now, she doesn't have all the OOC knowledge we do that explains why this idea is a great idea, but the idea remains great.
     
    Fouredged Sword said:
    Well, yes. Lydia is smart. This is a great idea. This is about as universally free as powerups come in this setting. Lash isn't going to mess with Lydia because we brought her into this world and if push came to shove we could take her back out of it.
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    I'm not so sure about that.

    If Lash wanted to, she could now tear out Faith from Lydia at need, damaging first her WP, then her Health, to the point of killing her.
    It would take a Shaping-defence for Lydia to resist this.

    Unless they are in the same room, in which case Lydia could just beat her up, but Lash isn't that stupid.
     
    I mean, I can't see Lash deciding to go against Lydia, as that would entail going against Molly. Which, well, considering the options awaiting her after her inevitable demise, I can't see her condemning herself to, well, hell. Also Molly could straight-up erase Lash, which she might actually prefer to hell, so she probably doesn't wanna risk losing that 'trump' card.

    Pretty sure Lash can see the way things are going, namely in favor of whichever side Molly's on. So she probably wouldn't outright betray the seemingly winning side, especially given the zero assurances on how the other side would treat her. Benefits of being the powerful good guys; there isn't much incentive to switch to the losing bad guys.
     
    Artemis1992 said:
    I'm not so sure about that.

    If Lash wanted to, she could now tear out Faith from Lydia at need, damaging first her WP, then her Health, to the point of killing her.
    It would take a Shaping-defence for Lydia to resist this.

    Unless they are in the same room, in which case Lydia could just beat her up, but Lash isn't that stupid.
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    Thoughts of Oak Defense would be enough to shield her from the effects of the mental connection, reaping faith is a mental attack. Though of course Lydia would run out of resources to power that eventually
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Thoughts of Oak Defense would be enough to shield her from the effects of the mental connection, reaping faith is a mental attack. Though of course Lydia would run out of resources to power that eventually
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    I don't think so?

    Ravaging a mortal for extra-faith is quite literally taking from the soul. Ripping out that little spark of God in every man, that Demons have discovered to fuel their power in the absence of His power being channeled through them.
    Damage to body and mind is incidental to that.
    Take a look at page 251 of the Core Book, I can't copy-paste from the damned thing.
     
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    Artemis1992 said:
    I'm not so sure about that.

    If Lash wanted to, she could now tear out Faith from Lydia at need, damaging first her WP, then her Health, to the point of killing her.
    It would take a Shaping-defence for Lydia to resist this.

    Unless they are in the same room, in which case Lydia could just beat her up, but Lash isn't that stupid.
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    Yes, but then she has to deal with a really really pissed off Molly, and if there is anything Lash knows anymore it is that Molly is capable of things Lash can hardly dream.

    Also - Most people have faith in the gods. Gods have faith in Lash!
     
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    Artemis1992 said:
    I don't think so?

    Ravaging a mortal for extra-faith is quite literally taking from the soul. Ripping out that little spark of God in every man, that Demons have discovered to fuel their power in the absence of His power being channeled through them.
    Damage to body and mind is incidental to that.
    Take a look at page 251 of the Core Book, I can't copy-paste from the damned thing.
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    Hmm I think you are right, at first sight that looked like a mental attack, but when considering how that actually works anti-shaping would be necessary, one more reason to grab that at level up in a way.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    OOC: So here's a riddle for you, is the girl who had previously been willing to help her thoroughly mortal boyfriend go on a Wyld Quest willing to make a deal with the local newly made not-really-a-Fallen-Angel-incarna she is quite sure she could beat to death if it came to it? Yes the answer is yes. Lydia has noticed that she is a little weak to keep up with Molly as well after all. If you had gone to New York she would have asked you if you think this is a good idea, but as is you do get to pick what she gets for mechanical balance reasons out of character, same reason you do her level ups.
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    Teenagers being overconfident. :V
    Lash would break her over one knee in a couple weeks 1v1. I wonder what Arawn thinks; he had issues with his deal with Mab, so he probably has opinions here.

    Sapphire Ritual can break it at need, so I dont really have a big issue here.
    And for Lash it makes sense. If nothing else, that deal means she can talk to Lydia at need, even without a phone. Which gives her a lifeline, in addition to the Faith drip.
    DragonParadox said:
    -[] Write in (Lores: Longing 2, Lore of Light 1, Lore of Flesh 5)
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    Huh.
    If she has Flesh 5, she could give Lydia a physical upgrade in addition to anything else they agree. Which makes sense for her, since it makes one of her Faith anchors even harder to kill/destroy.

    Which means we shouldnt be looking at spending for physical upgrades at all.

    DragonParadox said:
    What does Lydia choose:
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    Apparently Lash didnt take Regeneration as a Visage ability.
    Well, I guess she could give it to herself with Flesh 5; still a fail though.

    Off the top of my head?
    ========
    OPTION A
    1 Faith = 10 Freebie Points. 4WP for 4FP, then 3 Ability pts for 6FP. I'd rather spend those Ability points on physical Merits, but I dont know if its allowed. I suspect Lash can provide them with Flesh 5 anyway.
    1 Faith = Supernatural Awareness
    1 Faith = Marble Flesh


    OPTION B
    1 Faith = Supernatural Awareness
    1 Faith = Enhanced Social Traits
    1 Faith = Marble Flesh

    Given as her Excellency is based around her Willpower, buying Willpower is probably the biggest upgrade she can take.
    She goes from Excellency +6 to Excellency +10. With the added benefit that the higher her WP, the larger a buffer she has if Lash needs Faith in an emergency and she is willing to give it.

    She's a teenage girl, and improved Social is kinda a big deal for girls.
    Not to mention that it helps with all the social work she's doing with ghosts and the like.

    She could use Wings, like a lot, along with the movement speed buff. I want it, because it's thematic.
    But I guess maybe if she goes up in Faith to 5.
    Or if she buys up Familiar 4.
     
    uju32 said:
    OPTION A
    1 Faith = 10 Freebie Points. 4WP for 4FP, then 3 Ability pts for 6FP. I'd rather spend those Ability points on physical Merits, but I dont know if its allowed. I suspect Lash can provide them with Flesh 5 anyway.
    1 Faith = Supernatural Awareness
    1 Faith = Marble Flesh


    OPTION B
    1 Faith = Supernatural Awareness
    1 Faith = Enhanced Social Traits
    1 Faith = Marble Flesh
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Definitely 4 WP, because that boosts her excellency. Definitely Marble Flesh, and I am leaning towards Enhanced social traits. Supernatural Awareness is nice, but Lydia has her own supernatural senses at least where it comes to ghosts. For remaining 6 freebie points, I would say 2 to brawl (for combat) and 1 to... Not sure really. Animal Ken? She does have a familiar, and she is specked to have animal summons / minions. Or Occult.
     
    [] Plan: Immunity and Will
    -[] A point of Faith can be converted into 10 freebie points. These points can be used to buy or improve traits such as Attributes, Abilities or Willpower. They cannot be used for improving Backgrounds.
    --[] +1 Attribute 5 freebie points, Manipulation
    --[] +1 Ability 2 freebie points, Subterfuge
    --[] +1 Willpower 1 freebie point X3
    -[] One point of Faith can be used to impart one of the demon's inherent powers, such as immunity to mind-control. The mortal permanently benefits from this power, rolling Willpower (difficulty 7) to activate its effects.
    --[] Immunity to Mind Control
    --[] Immunity to Possession

    [X]Plan Deaths Daughter: 3 Faith points
    Yog said:
    Definitely 4 WP,
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Lydia only needs 3 more WP.
     
    Last edited:
    Yog said:
    Definitely 4 WP, because that boosts her excellency. Definitely Marble Flesh, and I am leaning towards Enhanced social traits. Supernatural Awareness is nice, but Lydia has her own supernatural senses at least where it comes to ghosts. For remaining 6 freebie points, I would say 2 to brawl (for combat) and 1 to... Not sure really. Animal Ken? She does have a familiar, and she is specked to have animal summons / minions. Or Occult.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Agreed on Marble Flesh.
    She needs better than ghostsight though; she's linked to an Incarnate, which means that she's in the line of fire when the Denarians come to town.

    The option for always-on discount Sight is a very big thing in the Dresdenverse.

    6 Freebie Points depends on whether the QM allows us to spend them on Merits or not.
    If Merits? I buy Spark of Life(5 pts) and probably Acute Sense or Catlike Balance or Expert Driver(1pt).
    If not, I buy Brawl 5(2pts) and either Empathy 4 or Alertness 3(1 pt).
     
    uju32 said:
    6 Freebie Points depends on whether the QM allows us to spend them on Merits or not.
    If Merits? I buy Spark of Life(5 pts) and probably Acute Sense or Catlike Balance or Expert Driver(1pt).
    If not, I buy Brawl 5(2pts) and either Empathy 4 or Alertness 3(1 pt).
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    If merits are allowed, Lydia has to buy this:
    Because I Think I Can (6pt. Merit)
    When you declare you are using a point of Willpower and
    roll for successes, your self-confidence may allow you to gain
    the benefit of that expenditure without losing the Willpower
    point. You do not lose the point of Willpower unless you fail
    your roll. This also prevents you from botching. This Merit
    may only be used when the difficulty of your roll is 6 or higher

    This has narrative basis with max WP, and this basically gives her +1 free success on her everything. And prevents her from botching, ever. Yes, Spark of Life is great, but this is just perfect for her
     
    uju32 said:
    Agreed on Marble Flesh.
    She needs better than ghostsight though; she's linked to an Incarnate, which means that she's in the line of fire when the Denarians come to town.

    The option for always-on discount Sight is a very big thing in the Dresdenverse.

    6 Freebie Points depends on whether the QM allows us to spend them on Merits or not.
    If Merits? I buy Spark of Life(5 pts) and probably Acute Sense or Catlike Balance or Expert Driver(1pt).
    If not, I buy Brawl 5(2pts) and either Empathy 4 or Alertness 3(1 pt).
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Merits are valid, though only up five point ones and I reserve the right to veto anything too broken. I know WoD well enough to suspect there is something more broken than the Book of Secrets out there. :V
     
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