Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
This is like saying that Colonel Stanislav Petrov's refusal to launch nuclear missiles during the false alarm of 1983 had no effect on the world because nobody knew about it when it happened.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
If we want to do large scale ruling the most clear method I can see right now is to take control of Marcone or the White court.
- Location
- washington
My argument is that their deaths don't directly affect a large number of people and that no one is ever going to know what the affects of killing them are not even ourselves. So yes again we have not changed the wider setting people don't know, the status quo is the same as far as anyone is concerned. We have not done large projects of our community, we've not crippled a faction, we've not become a faction, we've not been made a player in the world, we've not affected any big bads of the setting who are the focus of many plots, we've not saved a country like dresdens done several times, we've not made our own communities and the ghouls don't count their more like a bunch of dudes living in a house than a community. Until we've done these things I will say again and again we've not affected the setting or set about big changes. Because we haven't no one knows the things we've set about not even us and we cannot say that the world has changed in any noticeable way to our own eyes. Its weird to argue otherwise all we've done is murderhobo some monsters and cured a couple problems.
Also that none of these things we've done seem even to us large we've done as buffys done and slay some monsters and fix some problems. Not affected political landscapes I don't feel we've done much. I don't know how anyone could say we have when there's so many things we've been talking about doing someday with no real progress towards yet its been a bunch of talk.
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- Location
- Germany
To be fair, there's a difference between activly changing the world and just killing threats to the status quo.
Of course killing important enough threats evfntually changes the world, but I think that's not quite what firefrog meant here.
We've done stuff other than that, and honestly it's silly to measure the value of the plot by how much our actions sound like news headlines anyway.
The Ordo deal is an example of this; a significant part of the Chicago supernatural community has the equivalent of diplomatic immunity from whamps. Here and now that means a significant portion of the supernatural predators around the city have to stop and check before trying to hassle a minor talent. Guessing wrong has Consequences after all, so they have to be sure.
That's hundreds of lives, that's hundreds of people connected to those lives. That's a social movement defining watershed in treatment in progress at the scale talents work on.
At the time scale we're acting on destructive actions are the most immediate. The things we've done that build people and communities up don't just pop up overnight, and many of them suffer from being forced to happen faster.
We shot the status quo, we're just watching it fall in bullet time and complaining that it's heart is still beating.
- Location
- washington
Not to be callous but overall the ordo is not that important and its not just news headlines its the way it affects the world I'm talking about. If not even we know we've done important things it may as well have no affect on the world. Besides killing these beings has barely made the world a better or even different place plenty of associates of theirs still exist and we have not done any large scale change at all. Heck even arguing that killing them has made big changes is arguable when others are likely to pull similar stuff. I want big noticeable change to the setting and arguing we've done that is bull. or even medium changes like gathering the ghouls of undertown into one group fairly sure there are hundreds down there is not over a thousand.
- Location
- Germany
I don't disagree, just trying to stop uju32 and firefrog from talking past each other.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
If you're hoping for setting up a successor to the unseelie accords without massive collateral damage, you'd need
1. A system for replicating the climate regulation the fae courts do if you kill them all
2.Permanently Ending the outsider threat or building up a force of sufficient magnitude to take winter's place long term
3. Kill or Social Mab into stepping back.
I don't see something of that magnitude as anything but Quest lategame/epilogue material.
1. A system for replicating the climate regulation the fae courts do if you kill them all
2.Permanently Ending the outsider threat or building up a force of sufficient magnitude to take winter's place long term
3. Kill or Social Mab into stepping back.
I don't see something of that magnitude as anything but Quest lategame/epilogue material.
We have not done a big change at all killing a few minor actors and make no mistake people that are a solo act are minor to the world at large. Knocking off a faction like the Red court, creating a city god of Chicago, that is a big change.
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- Location
- washington
Why would I want that? Dresden himself has made plenty of big changes to the setting I'm arguing we haven't.
- Location
- Brazil
Well firefrog doesn't seem to want to listen, the QM himself explained, in the same words as uju, that what we did was important, but he totally ignored it, along with everyone else who tried to explain the same, to continue his personal narrative that what we did it was totally useless.
I doubt he will stop.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I was under the impression you wanted us to make a change of that magnitude. Though I suppose exterminating the red court or triggering a purge campaign in the federal government targeted at the White Court would also be valid. Are you thinking something of this scale?
- Location
- washington
How is that an argument against what I said? He just said someone might consider it important if we fully explained what we did. No more important I'd say than saving a couple dozen peoples lives for most of the things we've done which can be argued to be important. But, my whole argument is that we've not enacted change for the world none of which hes directly disagreed with. In fact I can make the argument hes as much admitted it in the comment he made previous to that. I won't cause thats not the argument he made but none of what he said fully disproves what I said.
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- washington
That or even just a minor change to overall chicago like a united ghoul gang, purging of certain supernatural elements, a god of chicago, getting minor fae into our service in decent amounts, openly ruling to some degree, signing onto the accords, Getting signed agreements about whats okay and whats not in chicago, or even just being a big damn hero like harrys done and saving a countries worth of people eventually.
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- Location
- washington
Uh if it gets widespread totally definitely counts as far as I'm concerned. Until it does more talk fun talk sure but still just talk.
I dont agree with either of these.
Harvard is in the Boston are, which is the 25th largest city in the US. Chicago is the 3rd.
Its a smaller arena; it just happens to have a greater need for a stabilizing figure.
Besides, Molly has neither the inclination nor the aptitude to run the criminal underground or to lay down edicts for a bunch of White Court vampires. Molly is not the sort of person who will feel comfortable with purging people and their families.
If you want to move to Boston, vote for it.
But taking over Marcone's crime organization or the White Court advance her interests in no way.
No offense, but thats nonsense.
You dont ever hear about changes in air pollution standards or vehicle emission standards by the EPA or Cali govt unless you go looking, but that doesnt mean it doesnt have an effect on lots of people.
I will repeat: Not every major action requires that you ride a zombie T-rex across downtown Chicago.
When Dresden helped stop the Denarians starting a bioplague in Chicago, or stopped them torturing the Archive into picking up a Coin, nobody who wasnt already in the know ever heard about it.
Most of the shit Dresden is involved in doesnt exactly end up on billboards.
This, basically.
Even if we did nothing else with them, just Cauldron alone is going to have significant effects on both supernatural behavior and population patterns.
Just like Dresden explicitly reshaped the predatory patterns of monsters just by existing in Chicago and being willing to throw down at a minute's notice, Molly explicitly extending her protection to human talents, to the point of helping wipe out the upper reaches of a major White Court noble house is the sort of thing that has ripples decades after it was done.
This is not true.
The vast majority of human supernaturals are roughly only as strong as the median Cauldron member.
Most of the wizard community is born and emerges from people like the members of Cauldron; thats why they were targeted.
Protecting Cauldron is one of the most influential, consequential actions we have taken thus far.
And Im counting exorcising Maeve into that.
This is not true.
As of November 2006 IC, 8 books have been published:
Explain the plenty of big changes as of 2006 IC.
Literally the one significant change he has personally done was arranging the overthrow of Lord Raith.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Investigation, Finance, Law, Expression, Larceny, Performance, Politics, Streetwise.
These are the skills that we want skilled NPCs to delegate to unless we want to spend huge amounts of XP on unfavored skills.
Dresden has Investigation and Streetwise, but he doesn't really work with us full time yet.
Marcone has Finance, Law, Larceny, Politics and Streetwise. Or at least already has people who handle that.
Lara Raith has Finance, Law, Expression, Larceny, Performance, Politics.
Marcone or Lara both have about everything we want in a council member if we can actually get them to work for us, but they are already established so we might want to set our sights lower.
We should be able to find some people with high expression in Red Star Productions.
Lydia has a Lawyer. It might be worthwhile to actually learn his name and get a closer relationship with him.
There has to be at least one Jade Dog with a high Larceny and Streetwise skill.
Politics is the hardest skill to recruit for.
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- Location
- United States
[X] Neither
- Location
- Germany
She'd feel comfortable purging Elder Vampires though, those have enough skeletons in the basement to deserve it one and all.
And the younger ones would have a hard time resisting direct persuation.
- Location
- washington
Didn't he prevent mass death in summer knight? Like millions of deaths? Also I'm arguing for the wider setting most minor practitioners don't matter outside of very small communities and their own friend groups. I'd say the most important thing they do is the paranet. Now for personal worth and individual worth yeah sure for the world eh I don't count them as important. For purging I'm talking about strictly malevolent supernatural creatures which I know chicago has somewhere. For the things we've murdered I'd argue none of those are as important as what dresdens done in the case of the archive which is stupidly important for the wider setting or the bioplague. Since the former fights against outsider stuff and the latter prevents millions of deaths. Have those happened yet?
Also look I can agree some of those are important to certain degrees but I want actual noticable change. Until we've done that I'd say most of our comments about change are just talk we've murdered shit and don't even notice the bigger things we've done. We have not changed the world, we have not changed chicago, we've saved individual lives. The biggest change by far is maeve but I'd argue in direct influence over people and communities we've not done much and I do want that eventually to change. Argue all you want I have not found much of any real change in what we've done, we've pissed people off, and done buffy style change to things. I want to be able to make a supernatural community of our own, kill a god, make a god, set up a faction, sign on to the accords, get servants out of minor fae in droves, maybe cripple a faction, or kill a big bad whose the primary instigator of their plots, maybe wipe out a species like black court or skinwalkers. These are the things I count as big changes stuff that changes the paradigms of the quest not just killing shit.
You are an Infernal Exalted with max intimidation. If you wanted to run a major gang without killing anyone you probably could. Maiming on the other hand... yeah that is probably still on the table. You have to offer some solid negative incentives to the kind of people who join criminal gangs.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I feel like you haven't been paying attention we purge a whole bunch of people recently and we don't have to purge their families if we don't want to.
Or at least buy a curse charm or crowned with furry.
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- Location
- washington
I'd argue there are hundreds of minor fae we could get to sign on under us with the promises of pizza and protection.