Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I'd take Lara's word with a ton of salt here.

Even if she isn't outright lying, which she very likely could do successfully, her view if "willing" is clearly biased.
She is someone people can hardly resist even without her using any direct powers.
In her specialities, she's nearly as unfair as an Exalted with a moderatly social build.
 
I'd take Lara's word with a ton of salt here.

Even if she isn't outright lying, which she very likely could do successfully, her view if "willing" is clearly biased.
She is someone people can hardly resist even without her using any direct powers.
In her specialities, she's nearly as unfair as an Exalted with a moderatly social build.
1)Is she biased? Almost certainly


2) Could she lie? Of course. Did she? I doubt it; given the information sources available to wizards, I doubt she'd risk it.

Dresden says her word is good, which means something in supernatural custom.
He's literally risked his life on her word at least twice, in Blood Rites and White Night.
You burn your word, you dont get usually get it back. She isnt going to do that for something quite so petty in her eyes.

When she actually had people killed, like when she had crippled guards after the naagloshii attack and her sisters were injured as well, she was up front to Dresden about sacrificing them to get her sisters back on their feet.


3) Depends on how much Presence they have, and how its calculated.
That said, Lara is near the top end of feats for the White Court.The White Queen isnt going to be responsible for recruiting thralls; you are looking to other, less capable Whamps for that.

Besides, a lot of us do tend to underestimate what other people will risk for money.

People risk their lives on rickety boats crossing the Med and land journeys over thousands of kilometers of hazardous territory.
They travel to other countries to marry people they've never met. They carry other people's babies in their bodies for nine months with all the attendant health risks.

They sell body organs even.

Even from the relatively prosperous West, you will sometimes see young women recruited to go ply the sex trade in Dubai for five figure paychecks over a couple weeks or months. If you're offering serious money for a couple hours work? Evidence is you're not going to be short of volunteers, even if you disclosed a risk of death, which I doubt they do.

And Whampire-induced deaths look like simple heart failure anyway, all above board.
 
While it is true that the whites could get a plenty of people to serve as life-force batteries with just money or for that matter just with mundane charm sometimes a vampire does not just want a human to keep from starving, they want that human over there. In such cases more esoteric and forceful measures are often taken
 
1)Is she biased? Almost certainly


2) Could she lie? Of course. Did she? I doubt it; given the information sources available to wizards, I doubt she'd risk it.

Dresden says her word is good, which means something in supernatural custom.
He's literally risked his life on her word at least twice, in Blood Rites and White Night.
You burn your word, you dont get usually get it back. She isnt going to do that for something quite so petty in her eyes.

When she actually had people killed, like when she had crippled guards after the naagloshii attack and her sisters were injured as well, she was up front to Dresden about sacrificing them to get her sisters back on their feet.


3) Depends on how much Presence they have, and how its calculated.
That said, Lara is near the top end of feats for the White Court.The White Queen isnt going to be responsible for recruiting thralls; you are looking to other, less capable Whamps for that.

Besides, a lot of us do tend to underestimate what other people will risk for money.

People risk their lives on rickety boats crossing the Med and land journeys over thousands of kilometers of hazardous territory.
They travel to other countries to marry people they've never met. They carry other people's babies in their bodies for nine months with all the attendant health risks.

They sell body organs even.

Even from the relatively prosperous West, you will sometimes see young women recruited to go ply the sex trade in Dubai for five figure paychecks over a couple weeks or months. If you're offering serious money for a couple hours work? Evidence is you're not going to be short of volunteers, even if you disclosed a risk of death, which I doubt they do.

And Whampire-induced deaths look like simple heart failure anyway, all above board.
Except she's talking to Dresden, and he isn't without his biases. Being up front about saving her sister isn't the same as doing so on her party favors.

Considering the average whamp attitude towards humans, namely that they aren't people they're food, I doubt they go to much trouble on moral grounds to respect their will or dignity. They simply don't care that much - or really at all - about this.

I mean do you seriously expect me to buy that if one of those people had stood up and said
"actually, I'd like to go home now" that they'd get to walk away?

I can believe they go with low effort enticement to catch people, but then treat them like property and use force or mind powers as appropriate to keep them compliant. Like what we just saw happening.

Don't buy into their fig leaf just because it's convenient for us to believe it while working with them.

Edit:

On the thing about her word; that means when she explicitly makes a promise she doesn't break it. That's all that it means, not that she doesn't lie or mislead.

That's why people in the supernatural routinely ask for explicit promises even from people with good reputations. If you accept something without an oath to it then that's your problem.
 
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So do we want to put this guy on a list for later?

We formed a nonaggression pact but that doesn't mean we can't do things in the social, political, and financial spheres. Probably by design because that's where the court is strongest.

This guy isn't any different from many of his peers, but we do need to start somewhere in terms of building influence and once the complications of this event are out of the way it might as well be him. Financial investments with rivals of more tolerable mindsets, support for the political enemies of his cutouts, information brokering about his operations and those of people like him, that sort of thing.

We could probably dig up some spicy Roman era lore that would be very valuable to the various elders if we wanted to. That's always a popular trade good.

Done right we'd never technically be working against the court, and an insider would always be benefiting enough to give us cover anyway, but things we don't like would still become unprofitable and the people doing them unhealthy to associate with.
 
Arc 8 Post 27: A Twist in the Tale
A Twist in the Tale

13th of November 2006 A.D.

Not one to let something like bewilderment at the offer to get in the way of a fine fodder of formality Lydia nods graciously. "That is a judgement fair and fair the manner of its telling. I did not come here to catch with barbs of metal or of words those who pass me by. Courtesy I expect so now that courtesy might be restored in full I bear you no ill will." As she speaks she turns from Lara to Barrowill, not too fast nor yet to slow to take into account this stations. "I ask pardons for the harm I have done to you and to your suit. If you are looking for a good cleaning service or a good tailor to replace it I am willing to help with most."

These words half medieval, half modern chick are just what she needed to say to stick. A rich people thing maybe, being willing to share the attentions of a skilled tradesman, one trusted with one's image.

With Lydia listening for how Charles is going to take this practically no one is paying any attention to the woman who is the object of this sorlid transaction. She looks horrified, helpless and hopeful all at once like a tornado had all at once picked her up and hurled her from the bounds of a life hated but familiar.

"Very well," Charles sounds harsh almost mechanical next to Lydia's essence crowned performance. "I'll have all of Eleanor's personal possessions transferred to you within the week and I'll have her served the divorce papers of course."

Divorce? He was doing that to his wife, passing her along like a party favor? To your left someone is laughing, you are not sure if it is a vampire or one of the people in Eleanor's situation making light. "I'm sure he was getting bored of her, but that bored?"

"Just goes to show if you do not treat your playmates well they will get nicked," someone with a British accent, but not the sexy James Bond one adds.

Your right hand tightens in a fist that longs to connect with Charles Barrowill's aristocratic nose, or with Lara Raith's smug little smile, looking for all the world like the cat that got all the cream.

"Come on, lets get you some fresh air." Much to your surprise Lydia isn't standing there in shock for having been the proximal cause of someone's divorce, but is in fact taking her new... vassal, yeah that is probably the most palatable way to look at it, away from all the vampires and into the garden.

"Listen I'm not going to apologize again, I have a bit of a bad record with them tonight, but as soon as we are out of here you are free to go. It's not like the White Court has any formal power over you regardless." she pauses, hesitates a moment, still perfectly balanced in the grasp of more than mortal insight. "Do you prefer Eleanor or. something else."

"Well aren't you... How old are you?" the woman manages to ask. If you were to judge her age by the light spilling in from the garden and the much brighter radiance of Lidya's anima you would say late thirties to early forties.

"Fift... sixteen now." It is not that your friend is being insincere, on some level you are pretty sure she does feel as overwhelmed as she sounds right now, but much like turning a certain way so that the camera only catches your good side all Eleanor is seeing right now, despite the literal halo of divine power is the fifteen year old girl, which means that to her own mind she has to act, she cannot just let herself be dragged along or worse yet drown in the chaotic feelings you read behind those bottle green eyes.

"God, two years older than Connie..." She trails off, horror suddenly overcoming the fragile embers of hope in her expression. "What am I going to tell Connie?"

"Your daughter?" you prompt, silently cursing Lara, not least because you are pretty sure she did this on purpose to teach Lydia a lesson or something.

"Step-daughter not that it matters. She's just started highs school. I don't think Charles is going to let me see her anymore." Horror drips into her tone. "All he would have to do is show the file to a judge and they'd side with him instantly. Look at her she's using, she's using. What am I supposed to tell them, that I take drugs to make the empty feeling go away because he's a vampire?" Laughter like broken glass spills from her lips. "I was relieved like I'm twenty one and sampling every sleazy talent agency in San Francisco."

"The file?" Lydia asks carefully.

"Blackmail file, he keeps one on me," Eleanor replies distantly, hardly seeming to pay attention. "He keeps one on a lot of people," she adds darkly.

"Well then I'll ask him to hand it over as part of the agreement Lady Raith brokered."

"He'll never do it." There is a certainty in that tone that only despair can bring.

"He will unless he'd like to take his chances with the Ferryman and the river ever-winding," your friend answers, a flash not bright but dark in her eyes.

It is perhaps for the best that Eleanor Barrowwill does not understand that reference.

What do you do?

[] Offer to send Eleanor to your house to talk to mom, you are sure she can be of help somehow

[] Offer Eleanor Black Rider's services to go wherever she needs to go to clear her head that is not a vampire party about to turn into an execution

[] Let Eleanor stay, she is probably safer under your eye and Lydia's than elsewhere and it's not like you are about to kill Charles, much as that might appeal

[] Write in


OOC: Now leaving the station for the land of unintended consequences. Up next mass execution.
 
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OOC: Now leaving the station for the land of unintended consequences. Up next mass execution.
Really looking forward to that one.

Also, I'll vote for her to stay for a while. I don't trust Charles to not be a dick somewhere else and this one's might be a potential recruit for our growing menagerie of traumatized people.

[X] Let Eleanor stay, she is probably safer under your eye and Lydia's than elsewhere and it's not like you are about to kill Charles, much as that might appeal
 
[X] Let Eleanor stay, she is probably safer under your eye and Lydia's than elsewhere and it's not like you are about to kill Charles, much as that might appeal

Letting her watch some vampires getting what's coming to them will be good for her.
 
Well, at least we know Lydia isn't likely to have a career as a successful marriage counselor...

[X] Let Eleanor stay, she is probably safer under your eye and Lydia's than elsewhere and it's not like you are about to kill Charles, much as that might appeal
 
I really, really don´t want her around for what is to come. We do not know how big Lara wants her purge to be, if she is only going after the traitors or if she is also planning to use this opportunity to clean house of other undesirables. I have no doubt that it is going to be chaotic however. If we have to watch over her the entire time it severly limits our tactical options.

[X] Offer to send Eleanor to your house to talk to mom, you are sure she can be of help somehow

Another thing to note, Connie Barrowill is pretty nice for a Whamp and a potential good friend and ally to have.
 
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[X] Let Eleanor stay, she is probably safer under your eye and Lydia's than elsewhere and it's not like you are about to kill Charles, much as that might appeal
 
Divorce? He was doing that to his wife, passing her along like a party favor? To your left someone is laughing, you are not sure if it is a vampire or one of the people in Eleanor's situation making light. "I'm sure he was getting bored of her, but that bored?"
From an objective perspective this probably shouldn't make this worse. Abuse is abuse, and he was definitely treating her like property either way.

But from my very subjective perspective it absolutely does make it feel worse, and I already hated his guts, so my new grudge is cemented.
Step-daughter not that it matters. She's just started highs school. I don't think Charles is going to let me see her any more." Horror drips into her tone. "All he would have to do is show the file to a judge and they'd side with him instantly. Look at her she's using, she's using. What am I supposed to tell them, that I take drugs to make the empty feeling go away because he's a vampire?"
"Blackmail file, he keeps one on me," Eleanor replies distantly, hardly seeming to pay attention. "He keeps one on a lot of people," she adds darkly.
And what do you know, it does get worse. Killing him here and now would have been a significant error, but I kind of regret not doing it anyway.

So new goals: save another vampire fledge and break this asshole in every way we can get away with.
We should have a chat with him while we still have Madrigal's blood on our hands and impress how offended we'd feel if he was cruel to his ex wife. Bet that will straighten up his thoughts on blackmailing her.
Now leaving the station for the land of unintended consequences. Up next mass execution.
We should probably start working out our buff scheme and order for that scene.

Steel skin and VLE are probably both good to start with, but do we want to activate WBS' combat mode for the extra speed or MHM for line of sight attacks?

Willpower isn't subject to the essence spending cap, so we should slap IPM in on top of everything else as well. ATB too, for the initiative buff.

I'm assuming we'll have a moment to buff up so we can start our excellencies on round one.

What's that put Molly at baseline?

Soak 17 dice at DC 4 if we roll about as well as last time, immunity to mind magic, surprise negator/see invisibility from anima, doubled initiative results, and either LoS telekinesis or nearly supersonic land speeds. Also the usual stuff like flight and universal Agg. :V

Madrigal is about to learn a very valuable lesson about infernals and enclosed spaces.
 
Okay, I'll change my mind. I think she's traumatized enough.

[X] Offer Eleanor Black Rider's services to go wherever she needs to go to clear her head that is not a vampire party about to turn into an execution
 
[X] Offer Eleanor Black Rider's services to go wherever she needs to go to clear her head that is not a vampire party about to turn into an execution
 
Steel skin and VLE are probably both good to start with, but do we want to activate WBS' combat mode for the extra speed or MHM for line of sight attacks?
WBS can be used reflexivly, so we don't need to use it until we need it.

Agreed on the defensive suite, I don't want to be stabbed to death by several Whampires who propably all have low-end Celerity, and IPM of course too, can't be distracted by some mental trick that most Whamps will have.

For the regular fighting our sword is good enough, don't even stricktly need to go Aggravated right of the bat, though we certainly can if we flare our anima anyway.

I'd hate to use the Shintai in this fight, since we might need it for the Naagloshii, or maybe an Outsider-surprise while we follow Sandra's trail.
We put a lot of risky stuff in this month.
 
WBS can be used reflexivly, so we don't need to use it until we need it.

Agreed on the defensive suite, I don't want to be stabbed to death by several Whampires who propably all have low-end Celerity, and IPM of course too, can't be distracted by some mental trick that most Whamps will have.

For the regular fighting our sword is good enough, don't even stricktly need to go Aggravated right of the bat, though we certainly can if we flare our anima anyway.

I'd hate to use the Shintai in this fight, since we might need it for the Naagloshii, or maybe an Outsider-surprise while we follow Sandra's trail.
We put a lot of risky stuff in this month.
We're probably going to flare anyway, and we need it for anti-stealth stuff, so I figure we may as well use all the free stuff instead of suppressing any part of it.

Whamps can combat regen away lethal damage too, so Agg would greatly ease killing them.

Fair point on WBS, but if we want to speed blitz during the first round we'd need to toggle it with the other scene long buffs.
 
And what do you know, it does get worse. Killing him here and now would have been a significant error, but I kind of regret not doing it anyway.

So new goals: save another vampire fledge and break this asshole in every way we can get away with.
I honestly don't understand why your so bothered. You realize some of the other vampires here have done and are probably actively doing waaay fucking worse right? This guy isn't any worse than the others he just lacks self control which is why we saw it. Focusing on him so much seems odd when we are tolerating the rest of the White Court even if only temporarily.
 
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I honestly don't understand why your so bothered. You realize some of the other vampires here have done and are probably actively doing waaay fucking worse right? This guy isn't any worse than the others he just lacks self control which is why we saw it. Focusing on him so much seems odd when we are tolerating the rest of the White Court even if only temporarily.
You gotta start somewhere.

I don't intend to tolerate the White Court for long at all and we have to make examples what is acceptable behaviour for Molly, and what isn't.
 
[X] Let Eleanor stay, she is probably safer under your eye and Lydia's than elsewhere and it's not like you are about to kill Charles, much as that might appeal

So, yeah, this was social judo, and the guy seems to have come out ahead of it. Anyone wants to bet that there are legal documents meaning she gets nothing in the divorce? And there's also a daughter who she clearly cares about. I wonder if the daughter is a whampire-blooded, or a full mortal. Both situations can be bad in their own way. We'll need to ask Isabela.

Letting her stay lets her see us unleash power unmatched and slaughter a lot of people who she probably thinks are untouchable right now. That's probably good for perspective.
 
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