"The suspect hid his name... Thankfully we still have his finger prints, address, DNA, picture, mother's maiden name, and the imprint of his molars."
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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Well that went about as I hoped it would. We got the critical information we needed thanks to @uju32 's question and didn't need to spend extra essence on the excellency. I wasn't in favor of either, but on this bit I'll acknowledge it was a good call.
We could have learned more, but we got what we really needed.
In terms of next steps I don't think we should spend another essence yet. We've got a lot of scene left to go and we're at our last pre flair essence.
Of the default options I prefer texting Lara, since it's reasonably likely to work. If they had a wire tap on either side of this particular pair we'd be very screwed already.
It's also worth considering that we have Lydia here too, and unlike us the vamps are an all you can eat essence buffet for her.
Her subterfuge is low, but if she can sub manipulation for charisma on the basis of it being an attempt to push Lara to include Vittorio in the execution then her excellency and a stunt make it a (3 manip + 1 subterfuge) + 5 excellency + 2 stunt = 11 dice pool that ignores 1s.
That isn't bad even if it's not at good as Molly's 14 dice total dice. We text her and have Lydia pass the message while we provide cover or something by doing something interesting.
Does this, or one of the other bits we got about Vittorio's boss, count as a secret for the purposes of essence regen?
That's interesting with how it plays into our prior discussions on defense from HC. From a fluff perspective it sounds like he isn't actually opposing perception so much as deep cleaning his aura to remove the evidence of his affiliation.
We should really look into getting something to protect ourselves on this front. I don't see any Qiao that help with this sort of thing, and our charms don't offer anything directly relevant either. Disguise of the new face sort of might, but only if the way it hides our archfiend aura also conceals stuff like Molly's emotional state.
That leaves us with alchemy, since 3 dots is the break point where we can mimic minor supernatural abilities and 4-5 are where we get good at it.
Working with Bob and Dresden we might be able to design something that we can take to mess with aura reading attempts.
Maybe something like the reverse of this guy's trick. Instead of trying to take things out of our aura or mask its power with something, which would probably be hard for an exalt of all people, we create something that injects more noise.
If trying to read Molly's aura involves looking through a mess of psychedelic nonsense to see any of the lower energy bits that's just as effective at keeping our secrets as rendering it imperceptible.
We could have learned more, but we got what we really needed.
In terms of next steps I don't think we should spend another essence yet. We've got a lot of scene left to go and we're at our last pre flair essence.
Of the default options I prefer texting Lara, since it's reasonably likely to work. If they had a wire tap on either side of this particular pair we'd be very screwed already.
It's also worth considering that we have Lydia here too, and unlike us the vamps are an all you can eat essence buffet for her.
Her subterfuge is low, but if she can sub manipulation for charisma on the basis of it being an attempt to push Lara to include Vittorio in the execution then her excellency and a stunt make it a (3 manip + 1 subterfuge) + 5 excellency + 2 stunt = 11 dice pool that ignores 1s.
That isn't bad even if it's not at good as Molly's 14 dice total dice. We text her and have Lydia pass the message while we provide cover or something by doing something interesting.
Does this, or one of the other bits we got about Vittorio's boss, count as a secret for the purposes of essence regen?
That's interesting with how it plays into our prior discussions on defense from HC. From a fluff perspective it sounds like he isn't actually opposing perception so much as deep cleaning his aura to remove the evidence of his affiliation.
We should really look into getting something to protect ourselves on this front. I don't see any Qiao that help with this sort of thing, and our charms don't offer anything directly relevant either. Disguise of the new face sort of might, but only if the way it hides our archfiend aura also conceals stuff like Molly's emotional state.
That leaves us with alchemy, since 3 dots is the break point where we can mimic minor supernatural abilities and 4-5 are where we get good at it.
Working with Bob and Dresden we might be able to design something that we can take to mess with aura reading attempts.
Maybe something like the reverse of this guy's trick. Instead of trying to take things out of our aura or mask its power with something, which would probably be hard for an exalt of all people, we create something that injects more noise.
If trying to read Molly's aura involves looking through a mess of psychedelic nonsense to see any of the lower energy bits that's just as effective at keeping our secrets as rendering it imperceptible.
It does, regen added and the next time you see Harry you can start the conversation with 'did you know Outsiders had politics?'
COMMENTARY
-Successful use of a Crown question to uncover a supernatural secret is +2 Essence.
Our Essence pool should now be 15/15 Essence.
-Madrigal Raith is here and Molly didnt recognize him? How?
Molly is a horror film buff that cared enough to go to a horror movie convention. Madrigal Raith's day job is horror movie director and producer. He was special guest of honor at Splattercon.
She should recognize him on sight as Darby Crane, director of the horror movie Harvest.
The one where the horror movie villain was the Scarecrow. The form that Eldest Fetch used to kidnap and torture her.
-Interesting that Madrigal isnt as buddy-buddy with Vito like in canon, if he's mocking him publicly.
Butterflies?
-It seems that the wizard in question here isnt Cowl.
Which is yet another butterfly.
- Im sorry to say that this doesnt actually tell us anything of use.
The lack of an Occult Excellency deprived us of a reroll on Hellscry Chakra, and the Crown question was framed such that it doesnt actually establish anything besides dealings between Vito and a Nephandi, without saying anything about Vito's degree of knowing involvement, or what if anything else he got from their association.
It might even be a straight business transaction.
Lord Raith walked around with with an antimagic Investment/protection from Outsiders, since at least the death of Maggie LeFay, and he wasnt demon-possessed. The three porn witches in Blood Rites used an Outsider ritual to kill people in return for human sacrifice, and they werent Outsider possessed either.
Bianca gave the Leanansidhe an Outsider-infested gift without herself being Outsider-touched in Grave Peril.
People and factions do have dealings with Outsider shit here without themselves being Outsider touched if the personal profit is high enough.
Cant make assumptions about Outsider control without checking.
Hell beholding Hell is an Int+Occult roll at DC7.
And we had no Occult Excellency running.
Unfortunate.
Vitto vs Molly lowballed Molly's dicepool by 2 dice.
She should have been rolling 10 dice: Charisma/Man 3 + Etiquette 5 + Stunt 2.
Point of order:
We dont know that he's demon-possessed.
All that we know is that he is apparently protected by a Nephandi wizard with a horizon realm in the NeverNever.
It doesnt tell us whether he's demon/Outsider-possessed, and it doesnt tell us if that's an externally cast spell or an Investment that he's been imbued with or a magic item.
It doesnt even tell us if he's doing it knowingly; for all we know, he doesnt know the particulars of his...associate.
Molly didnt know about Sandra Marlin, and Harry himself didnt know about Justin DuMorne, and the Senior Council dont know about Simon Peabody.
This isnt actionable information, because we didnt have Occult Excellency running
Like I feared, this actually doesnt appear to have answered any IC or OOC questions or helped us categorize this guy's threat level because we cheaped out on doing a proper scan.
Lara Raith's preferred pool against Molly was 9 dice before Disciplines, and she's an apex predator in White Court political circles.
Disciplines appear to do the majority of lifting for them.
And Molly has flat immunity from that sort of thing in social combat because Charms.
I generally prefer to avoid relitigating votes to avoid old arguments, but since you brought it up:
We DIDNT obtain the information.
Nothing we learned has helped us categorize the threat.
We've discovered that Vittorio Malvora has protection from a Nephandi wizard/once-wizard.
We still dont know what he was hiding. We dont know if he's demon/Outsider possessed.
We dont know if its from a magic item or a gifts/Investments, or if he has any others. We dont even know if he's a magic user yet IC.
Which were all things we could have figured out with an Occult Excellency boosting a repeat Hellscry.
And a different Crown question.
All we know is that he's a nebulous threat of unknown magnitude and scope and immediacy.
Which is not helpful, since we already knew this.
And no, there is no need to burn Essence on Subterfuge here either.
We have no reason to want to hide that we're talking to Lara here.
For one thing, its not actionable information.
Molly is making unsupported guesses about the amount of influence and control the Nephandi currently has over Vito. Guesses that are contradicted by canon occurrences.
Like I said earlier, Lord Raith's antimagic came from a deal with an Outsider. He wasnt possessed or controlled, and while the Outsiders were undoubtedly playing a long game, we know Lord Raith was under it for at least 3 decades with no apparent detriment to his will or decisionmaking.
For another, we dont have any grounds for killing him; he has not breached any agreements that we know of.
And as far as I know, there are no White Court rules about not dealing with black mages; the three strega who were murdering women in Blood Rites were doing so at Lord Raith's direction, and Madeline Raith hired a magical merc in Turn Coat.
And for a third, there is zero actual need for a Subterfuge Excellency.
We could just write what we want on a note and give it to her openly. Or type it out on our phone, have it ring and pass it over to her as a phone call for her.
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Madrigal in his director persona was disguised, better than the mortal Molly could see through and those are the memories you have to work with.
Proven Guilty description:
No he wasnt. At least in canon.
Harry Dresden was able to tell once he was identified to him as a Raith, and subsequent encounters didnt note any changes either. Its of the same pattern as Lara Raith being a porn star on film. Undisguised and recognizable.
Unless you're making it canon for this AU that he's running around in disguise.
[X] Send her a message, you have her number and Cthulhu probably does not read texts. Hopefully she's not one of those people who does not check her phone at parties
-[x]Stunt "Vito Died some time ago. Something else is using his face."
-[x]Stunt "Vito Died some time ago. Something else is using his face."
Update pretty clearly states Nephandi wizards become a type of outsider, that exist outside realty not the NeverNever. And a full cloaking spell is a Nephandi staple.
VOTE
[X] Write in: Say nothing
We do not have actionable information.
Nothing we know suggests he has broken the treaty between Molly and the White Court.
Furthermore, what we currently know doesnt suggests that he's a short term threat, and explaining the precise situation to Lara Raith is not something we can do easily in the middle of a social event, where she'll have questions.
So shut up. Talk later.
[X] Write in: Say nothing
We do not have actionable information.
Nothing we know suggests he has broken the treaty between Molly and the White Court.
Furthermore, what we currently know doesnt suggests that he's a short term threat, and explaining the precise situation to Lara Raith is not something we can do easily in the middle of a social event, where she'll have questions.
So shut up. Talk later.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] Write in: Say nothing
Citation please.
Im looking at the update right now and I cant find that quote.
No.
Not unless Bob mentioned it to Molly off-screen. She's a signatory to the Accords, so Molly has seen the name, but there's no current indication she knows how that works.
Black Mirror Incarnation.
5 dot Kakuri charm.
15xp.
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Addmitily he might be inside realty but that would require the WC to have missed, a person pulling in Outside energy for long enough to have grown fairly strong. But it is kind of hard to hide the passively destroying reality that being a Nephandi entails.
That doesnt say what you think.
It says those wizards are aligned with the Outside. It doesnt say they live Outside.
A Nephandi could hang out on Earth and in the NeverNever just fine as long as it didnt get killed.
Furthermore, the White Council is not perfect.
They never had much presence in Latin America even before the Vampire War kicked off, for example. And even outside there, people like the Kemmlerites have managed to spawn multiple tier-1 wizards.
No it isnt.
Nephandi spend years and decades undercover in the WoD source material.
Voormas was a >500 year old archmage when he tried to destroy reality
Voormas
Voormas, the Grand Harvester of Souls, is a corrupt Euthanatos mage who has fallen to Jhor. Most Euthanatoi consider him barabbi, although he technically has the opposite goal of most Nephandi: he desires to eliminate the concept of death, both his own personal death and the eventual Telos of...
whitewolf.fandom.com
Being a Nephandi means you are overwriting the rules of consensus in mage, like a car can littirly transform into a horse and buggy, while in the Nephandi influence, and back upon leaving. It possible for them to hide in mage as people cannot even notice the changes. But in the crossover, reality itself being undone would be producing Wyld pockets at best, if not just opening portals to outside.
1)The Dresdenverse is not a consensus reality. There are seemingly hard rules.
2)There are actual Outsiders inside the Walls of Creation.
The Red Court has been using them in major battles with the White Council, and in assassination attempts like the one against McCoy.We literally see an army of them attempt to invade Demonreach in Cold Days.
If those arent dissolving reality, its not a credible argument to suggest that Nephandi will do so in this AU just by existing.
Especially since Nephandi do no such thing in WoD.
The people who change reality around themselves are Marauders, and strong ones at that. Nor is it permanent.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Why does that even matter tho? The man at the very least made a deal with an Outsider. He's automatically on our hitlist and we are killing people on that list today.
1)Prove it.
We know it, but we cant prove it to the White Court. We can tell Lara so she can do her own investigations, but that will take time to perform to her own satisfaction, and even more time to convince the rest of the Court she isnt simply taking out political rivals. And even then he could claim not to know the dude was an Outsider.
Lara is not Mab.
She doesnt have Mab's control of Winter, or the absolute loyalty of her subjects.
2)Because we are here on invitation as a guest, because the offenders broke an official treaty forbidding what they did.
So if we challenge and kill them, we are within our rights and acting with official sanction.
If we attempt to kill someone who hasnt broken a treaty or attacked us, we are aggroing his House, and possibly the entire White Court. With all the Consequences thereof.
Molly does not act with impunity in the setting.
3)There is no White Court law we are aware of about having dealings with black wizards.
They are even officially at war with the White Council because of the Vampire War, even though they have not raised a single finger to help the Reds.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I looked it up not actually making him break the 7th law so long as we don't mention any names.
This isn't a trial. Adding one more body to the mound bodies today is no trouble at all. Besides whatever fight he can manage.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I think Uju is trying to say that we should be concerned about White Court politics because otherwise we'll aggro more people when their are worse ones we have on our list. So we can kill him just not in front of everyone without an excuse.
It sort of makes sense... I'm not sure how much I really care about White Court politics though.
Maybe we chase him down after the party?
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Vittorio Malvora is Malvora Heir, which makes him one of the top ten most important nobles in the White Court.
You cannot walk into another Power's territory and kill another senior member of the government with impunity.
Not without starting a war and/or destabilizing Lara's rule.
It would be like walking into Edinburgh Wizard HQ and killing Peabody
Or into Winter and killing the Leanansidhe.
Or, to use a mundane example, shooting some cop on the street because you know he is a rapist, just trust me.
You need a casus belli that is credible to other people, or There Will Be War.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Or maybe.. We make it look like an accident? Fire was everywhere, shit was exploding, people and vamps running and screaming for their lives, and our sword just accidently loped his head off. It happens.
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