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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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BronzeTongue said:
Which we can turn into influence on pushing their operations around. Snip off the objectionable by maneuvering them into stuff like crossing a line we can off them over and replace with people who did a stint in our org before 'leaving' or family grateful we saved their idiot cousin from their political mistakes.
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This whole post seems too ideal. I agree with most of it, using the WC for our own ends, purging the undesirables ect. I just doubt it will play out that way and thus don't want to tie our hands to play a game they have so much experience in. Again the vote is logical I just don't like negotiating with terrorist immoral monsters and rapist, even in the short term.

The potion thing seems pointless and risky not to mention i'd be a huge timesink in the longrun unless we teach others which would invite even more risk.
 
Yog said:
It adds an additional turn, though. Because we can only spend two motes per turn at E2. And if we are making two turns, we might as well use wind-born stride.
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Surprise round: Melee Excellency + VLE
1st Combat Round: Steelskin

I did the math.
We dont use WBS because this is an indoor scene, and by the combat turn when it gets the opportunity to be activated, Molly already has her hands on her opponent.

Besides, this is an indoor cafe, and there are not many rooms that are more than 33 yards high, which is Molly's current movement speed per second. Especially not in a skyscraper.
Its unnecessary.
Yog said:
We can extract the understanding that minor practitioners are under our protection. That's an important one, it makes joining Molly (Order of Cauldron) a very good idea for minor practitioners.
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I suspect that Cauldron aren't going to be especially willing to give their membership roster to the White Court so that they know who to not touch.
And some of these things could do with some ambiguity.

Earth-Destroyer said:
MMP is the fuel their powers charm, and White Court at least can store massive amounts of energy just look how long the White King got by even cursed to be unable to eat. No clue about the others.
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The White King is not exactly typical of the average Whampire.
I have strong doubts that other Whites have deep enough reserves to go for 30-some years without feeding.
Not a good benchmark, is what Im saying.
 
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One thing you guys should keep in mind about alchemy is that it is mortal sorcery, that means that it can as a matter of course go wrong, a bad batch a salt, an astrological anomaly that was not accounted for in the charts, the use of water that is not pure enough or too pure, each of these things can make alchemy go lethally catastrophically wrong. Molly cheats by being Exalted with a key ability in occult, she does not roll 1s, she does not make mistakes, the only way she can fail at alchemy is though an unlikely cascade of poor circumstances and materials. Dresden too cheats, Bob is not a normal wizard's assistant, as much as such a thing can be said to exist, he is an entity designed to understand and catalogue the underpinnings of magic in such a way as to aid the practice of wizardry, with literally centuries of experience behind him.

Molly and, much as he would deny it, Harry could with enough work and diligence get to the point of making a potion that can stave off the hunger of the White Court, but this is not a thing that could be made consistently by alchemists the world over. Maybe if you got the right Hell and then figured out a way to get relatively large scale trade going, but in the short to mid term MiS remains by far the better option.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
MMP is the fuel their powers charm, and White Court at least can store massive amounts of energy just look how long the White King got by even cursed to be unable to eat. No clue about the others.
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Yes, I referenced that in my post under other charms that don't scale.

The issues with that are well established, but on a practical level people won't accept this sort of influence if they're aware of it and I doubt our ability to keep it secret forever.

Pedaling MMP like that is how you ended up getting treated like the pathfinders. This is the exact thing people would be suspicious about from the start, and even if you think everyone should immediately join with the nearest exalt and accept anything that happens to them at face value but I don't think anyone modeled after a realistic person would.

Earth-Destroyer said:
Again Molly can only provide 10-15 potions a day working full time, ignoring 1 and with an excellency and craft speed up. You would need lots of mortals very high level Alchemy with a chance of botching the potions. And Botched potions are really bad, people will die if mortals are make such a potion.
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When/if we get to that point we'll have to see what the options are. Using baseline mortals would be a problem, but with the right training, specialization, and logistical setup I think it's workable.

It just requires being a little more clever about it than buying charms and cackling about our unlimited power.
BoredMan said:
This whole post seems too ideal. I agree with most of it, using the WC for our own ends, purging the undesirables ect. I just doubt it will play out that way and thus don't want to tie our hands to play a game they have so much experience in. Again the vote is logical I just don't like negotiating with terrorist immoral monsters and rapist, even in the short term.

The potion thing seems pointless and risky not to mention i'd be a huge timesink in the longrun unless we teach others which would invite even more risk.
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I don't think it'd play out perfectly. The point is to outline a series of options that we can attempt to pursue. We have to have goals more specific than "make things better" to make progress.

Any plan will face opposition and failures, working around that is part of actually doing something. The nice part about the approaches I outlined is that we can act on all of them at once without mutual interference, adapting to the conditions we actually face.

I can sympathize with your distaste, but I'm not convinced that this ties our hands in a meaningful way. Yes it stops us from attacking ourselves, but burning down random white court ops doesn't actually address the whole problem. Applying enough violence to break the court is likely to have serious repercussions on the world as a whole, and won't actually stop the vamps so much as scatter them around without central control.

Solutions that feel good but don't actually solve the problem aren't actually solutions.

On the risks of the potion stuff; I'm not sure what exactly you're concerned about.

White court vampires have to eat people to survive, and have a strong positive feedback loop to go further than the minimum. The point would be that we could provide an option that isn't doing that or accepting weakness and hunger.

Suppose it did get out and other people started making it. What would they be doing that's worse than things are right now? How does that risk weigh against trying to fight a war across the country, or the other approaches actually available to us?

This seems like the sort of thing where a specific proposal is being measured against a platonic ideal that doesn't actually exist rather than practical alternative.

If such an approach is viable I would expect it to have issues and consequences, but given our current information I don't see what it's losing out to.

It's not like we can sword fight Lara and convert the white court into something benign to everyone.
 
BronzeTongue said:
That depends a lot on details we don't have right now. Even if that is a concern as long as we don't exceed the known risks of alchemy it's an issue we can manage on a reputational level.

White vamps are the target group and they're pretty stupid tough, so soaking alchemy consequences is a lot more viable for them anyway.
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Also worth noting that Enchantment 6 or Exalted Craft is an option.
If we make something that, say, concentrates life energy out of the lifesblood of poultry or cattle or pigs or other fast-growing livestock? Or which taps off a leyline? That goes some way to ameliorating the issue.

We'd have to worry about second and third order consequences of course; there's always those assholes who view a reduction of constraints as a reason to embark on conquest.
And of course, if it will feed a White, there's good chance it will feed Reds and Blacks, which we probably dont want.

But it is possible in theory to magicraft our way out of this problem.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Pedaling MMP like that is how you ended up getting treated like the pathfinders.
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The big difference is that MMP has a clear cut off point. The pathfinders you see bunches of shambling mindless slaves all over the place well as even if a COD eats nothing but MMP for years on end they are still capable of telling Molly no (it's just a bit harder, but gets no harder after the first bite.) and are fully capable of functioning in society.
 
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uju32 said:
Also worth noting that Enchantment 6 or Exalted Craft is an option.
If we make something that, say, concentrates life energy out of the lifesblood of poultry or cattle? Or which taps off a leyline?
That goes some way to ameliorating the issue.

We'd have to worry about second and third order consequences of course; there's always those assholes who view a reduction of constraints as a reason to embark on conquest.
And of course, if it will feed a White, there's good chance it will feed Reds and Blacks, which we probably dont want.

But it is possible in theory to magicraft our way out of this problem.
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That's a good point.

To be clear, I don't expect this to be simple, immediate, or perfectly clean. It's just that actually solving this is a long term thing, and I don't buy that a straightforward solution exists that will tie this up with a bow with perfect moral authority.

I'm not sure about the risk of other vamp types using it though. It depends on how we set it up.

If we concentrate emotional energy from the environment or something it's a lot more biased towards emotion eaters.

fictionfan said:
The big difference is that MMP has a clear cut off point. The pathfinders you see bunches of shambling mindless slaves all over the place well as even if someone eats nothing but MMP for years on end they are still capable of telling Molly no (it's just a bit harder, but gets no harder after the first bite.) and are fully capable of functioning in society.
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A difference that is largely irrelevant. Try to see this from the perspective of people who don't trust us and aren't interested in submission.

I think the split reaction in this thread is a reasonable demonstration on how even in the hypothetical this sort of thing gets a split response. It's not like I'm out here tilting windmills in defiance of the thread's consensus. Enough people followed this line of reasoning to vote based it last time it came up.

Why would a population with less information, little to no trust, and a long history of issues with this exact topic universally have the most convenient possible take on our abilities?
 
Frankly if someone is that paranoid they where never going risk even MIS. MMP is nothing compared to MIS in its ease of use and unlimited scale. And MMP does nothing overall, you don't get to even think no, to a half way decent social exalted. Especially since we will have permanent CCC on soon.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Frankly if someone is that paranoid they where never going risk even MIS. MMP is nothing compared to MIS in its ease of use and unlimited scale. And MMP does nothing overall, you don't get to even think no, to a half way decent social exalted. Especially since we will have permanent CCC on soon.
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I wouldn't call it paranoid to think this way in this context, or even about this particular issue.

Can you honestly say you'd feel the same way if you were on the other end of the barrel here?

Other than that you're hitting on my point. There's going to be a sizable population, probably a sizable majority, who simply won't subject themselves to things like this unless they have to.

As to social exalts being undeniable; we've talked about that just about every time we're about to engage in social combat and haven't exactly crushed everyone to face us.

A social exalt can do a lot, but the rest of the world isn't helpless against them. Especially ExWoD exalts explicitly nerfed to make that true.
 
Votes are still pretty close and discussion seems to be ongoing so I'm going to leave this up until the morning.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on May 21, 2023 at 1:49 AM, finished with 90 posts and 15 votes.
  • [X]Plan Fisher Queen
    -[X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X]Attack the Watcher, restraint and disable non lethally
    -[X]Run through pockets and clothes for items of interest
    -[X]Interrogate; Empathy or Intimidate Excellencies if necessary
    -[X]Melee Excellency + VLE + Steelskin: 3m
    -[X]STUNT: You look at Lydia for a moment, then meet Lara's eyes again."Seems reasonable. Sure." Underneath the table, you grip the table cloth on the table by one end and raise a finger. "Excuse me for a minute." You explode upwards, the leading edge of the tablecloth scything ahead of you at supersonic speeds as your green-shrouded form lunges at the watcher. The improvised weapon curls around the veiled figure's neck and arms and tightens, a moment before you crash into its back with bone-dislocating force. Then you grapple, twisting in the air to bring the body down to the ground with your knee in their sternum. A smile slides onto your face as you look at your captive. Its not a nice smile. "Hello there."
    [X] Refuse, you are not going to let her leverage your presence for more influence, unlike Thomas his sister is definitely not one of the good guys
    -[X] I look forward to meeting those Elders who haven't used their centuries to learn their limits.
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X] Claim members of the Order of Cauldron as yours
    -[X] Disable the Watcher, non lethally
    --[X]Melee excellency, Windborn stride
    -[X] STUNT: "Very well. Me and mine will not attack you and yours, as long as you do the same to those who find themselves under my aegis. It is always better to resolve issues at the negotiation table. " - you say, before adding: "and because we are all such good friends now, a favor", and you are exploding out of your seat, the chair skidding back, and the room bathed in the ethereal glow of your anima, the sword in your hand striking, for once with a flat of its blade, at the hidden watcher, not to kill, but to disable.
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X] Stunt: Agreed. So said you stab the spy. Consider this a gesture of good will.
    -[X] Melee excellency, flare anima.
    -[X] After spy killed, Crown question on spy: What are the current plans of the ones who sent him.
    [X] Lara... may I make you a counteroffer. How would you like to take over the white court so they do not come into conflict with me? I am willing to agree to a truce... but I would like to keep an oar in. You know exactly what the baseline perks of the job are, and that's just the baseline. I am not without powers beyond that, and I am willing to help those aligned with me in their interests. So... how about it. I am not so stubborn or prideful to not be willing to bend. How about it? Are you willing to serve my interests by acting as if I am your pawn, all the while working to create a world where we exist together... after all, service to you would be service to me under the right circumstances. I would like a world where all of the white court is free from the beast riding behind their brain. I am willing to work through you to make that happen.
    -[x] drive off, capture, or kill spy first.
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BronzeTongue said:
Suppose it did get out and other people started making it. What would they be doing that's worse than things are right now?
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Like Lara said the Hunger limits them. I could see Whampire Wizards trying to replicate our potion to create some kind of monopoly and consolidate power by avoiding some of the risk inherit in Hunger. I'm sure there's other possibilities I can't come up with rn but giving the other guys a potion to become less "predictable" as Lara puts it seems like a nogo in the long run if they crack it.
 
BronzeTongue said:
That's a good point.
To be clear, I don't expect this to be simple, immediate, or perfectly clean. It's just that actually solving this is a long term thing, and I don't buy that a straightforward solution exists that will tie this up with a bow with perfect moral authority.

I'm not sure about the risk of other vamp types using it though. It depends on how we set it up.
If we concentrate emotional energy from the environment or something it's a lot more biased towards emotion eaters.
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I mean, its worth noting that studying how the Will of Kakuri's corpse will give Molly some insight into how kueijin and akuma pull chi/life energy from their victims and the environment.
Which is effectively prepwork for the future.

But this is a medium-to-longterm thing.
Really longterm would just be a sorcerous ritual that affects all Whites. Sorta like the Chitchen Itza ritual in Changes to hit every White Court descendant and their Hungers in order to alter them.

But that requires trust, rep and a lot of resources.


fictionfan said:
The big difference is that MMP has a clear cut off point. The pathfinders you see bunches of shambling mindless slaves all over the place well as even if a COD eats nothing but MMP for years on end they are still capable of telling Molly no (it's just a bit harder, but gets no harder after the first bite.) and are fully capable of functioning in society.
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We know that. They dont.
They have no way of independently confirming anything we say about how any of this works, they just have to take it on faith we are telling the truth, and that we won't suddenly alter the deal after a year, or five years, or fifty.

There's a reason I keep hammering on Molly managing her reputation and being known for keeping her word as a priority.
As far as the rest of the world is concerned, we are a Hell Princess. A remarkably well-mannered one, but Hells and their inhabitants have a well-deserved, longstanding reputation for treachery. And patience.

The fact that we're leaning hard on our socials with people like Dresden and the Mentor 5 relationship with a Knight of the Cross is the only reason why our social issues aren't even worse than they already are.
And we're a person who will walk into a bar and strangers will literally flee.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Votes are still pretty close and discussion seems to be ongoing so I'm going to leave this up until the morning.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on May 21, 2023 at 1:49 AM, finished with 90 posts and 15 votes.
  • [X]Plan Fisher Queen
    -[X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X]Attack the Watcher, restraint and disable non lethally
    -[X]Run through pockets and clothes for items of interest
    -[X]Interrogate; Empathy or Intimidate Excellencies if necessary
    -[X]Melee Excellency + VLE + Steelskin: 3m
    -[X]STUNT: You look at Lydia for a moment, then meet Lara's eyes again."Seems reasonable. Sure." Underneath the table, you grip the table cloth on the table by one end and raise a finger. "Excuse me for a minute." You explode upwards, the leading edge of the tablecloth scything ahead of you at supersonic speeds as your green-shrouded form lunges at the watcher. The improvised weapon curls around the veiled figure's neck and arms and tightens, a moment before you crash into its back with bone-dislocating force. Then you grapple, twisting in the air to bring the body down to the ground with your knee in their sternum. A smile slides onto your face as you look at your captive. Its not a nice smile. "Hello there."
    [X] Refuse, you are not going to let her leverage your presence for more influence, unlike Thomas his sister is definitely not one of the good guys
    -[X] I look forward to meeting those Elders who haven't used their centuries to learn their limits.
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X] Claim members of the Order of Cauldron as yours
    -[X] Disable the Watcher, non lethally
    --[X]Melee excellency, Windborn stride
    -[X] STUNT: "Very well. Me and mine will not attack you and yours, as long as you do the same to those who find themselves under my aegis. It is always better to resolve issues at the negotiation table. " - you say, before adding: "and because we are all such good friends now, a favor", and you are exploding out of your seat, the chair skidding back, and the room bathed in the ethereal glow of your anima, the sword in your hand striking, for once with a flat of its blade, at the hidden watcher, not to kill, but to disable.
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X] Stunt: Agreed. So said you stab the spy. Consider this a gesture of good will.
    -[X] Melee excellency, flare anima.
    -[X] After spy killed, Crown question on spy: What are the current plans of the ones who sent him.
    [X] Lara... may I make you a counteroffer. How would you like to take over the white court so they do not come into conflict with me? I am willing to agree to a truce... but I would like to keep an oar in. You know exactly what the baseline perks of the job are, and that's just the baseline. I am not without powers beyond that, and I am willing to help those aligned with me in their interests. So... how about it. I am not so stubborn or prideful to not be willing to bend. How about it? Are you willing to serve my interests by acting as if I am your pawn, all the while working to create a world where we exist together... after all, service to you would be service to me under the right circumstances. I would like a world where all of the white court is free from the beast riding behind their brain. I am willing to work through you to make that happen.
    -[x] drive off, capture, or kill spy first.
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Not really.
Current Tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on May 21, 2023 at 3:11 PM, finished with 116 posts and 19 votes.
  • [X]Plan Fisher Queen
    -[X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X]Attack the Watcher, restraint and disable non lethally
    -[X]Run through pockets and clothes for items of interest
    -[X]Interrogate; Empathy or Intimidate Excellencies if necessary
    -[X]Melee Excellency + VLE + Steelskin: 3m
    -[X]STUNT: You look at Lydia for a moment, then meet Lara's eyes again."Seems reasonable. Sure." Underneath the table, you grip the table cloth on the table by one end and raise a finger. "Excuse me for a minute." You explode upwards, the leading edge of the tablecloth scything ahead of you at supersonic speeds as your green-shrouded form lunges at the watcher. The improvised weapon curls around the veiled figure's neck and arms and tightens, a moment before you crash into its back with bone-dislocating force. Then you grapple, twisting in the air to bring the body down to the ground with your knee in their sternum. A smile slides onto your face as you look at your captive. Its not a nice smile. "Hello there."
    [X] Refuse, you are not going to let her leverage your presence for more influence, unlike Thomas his sister is definitely not one of the good guys
    -[X] I look forward to meeting those Elders who haven't used their centuries to learn their limits.
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X] Claim members of the Order of Cauldron as yours
    -[X] Disable the Watcher, non lethally
    --[X]Melee excellency, Windborn stride
    -[X] STUNT: "Very well. Me and mine will not attack you and yours, as long as you do the same to those who find themselves under my aegis. It is always better to resolve issues at the negotiation table. " - you say, before adding: "and because we are all such good friends now, a favor", and you are exploding out of your seat, the chair skidding back, and the room bathed in the ethereal glow of your anima, the sword in your hand striking, for once with a flat of its blade, at the hidden watcher, not to kill, but to disable.
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    [X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
    -[X] Stunt: Agreed. So said you stab the spy. Consider this a gesture of good will.
    -[X] Melee excellency, flare anima.
    -[X] After spy killed, Crown question on spy: What are the current plans of the ones who sent him.
    [X] Lara... may I make you a counteroffer. How would you like to take over the white court so they do not come into conflict with me? I am willing to agree to a truce... but I would like to keep an oar in. You know exactly what the baseline perks of the job are, and that's just the baseline. I am not without powers beyond that, and I am willing to help those aligned with me in their interests. So... how about it. I am not so stubborn or prideful to not be willing to bend. How about it? Are you willing to serve my interests by acting as if I am your pawn, all the while working to create a world where we exist together... after all, service to you would be service to me under the right circumstances. I would like a world where all of the white court is free from the beast riding behind their brain. I am willing to work through you to make that happen.
    -[x] drive off, capture, or kill spy first.
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uju32 said:
We know that. They dont.
They have no way of independently confirming anything we say about how any of this works, they just have to take it on faith we are telling the truth, and that we won't suddenly alter the deal after a year, or five years, or fifty.
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You can't have it both ways. Either they are super alchemists able to easily detect a very -1 DC to social rolls to a specific person and no other effects. Or they can't in which case they can't detect it. They could feed MMA to a hundred vampires and watch them interact under lab conditions and not see any change.
 
fictionfan said:
You can't have it both ways. Either they are super alchemists able to easily detect a very -1 DC to social rolls to a specific person and no other effects. Or they can't in which case they can't detect it. They could feed MMA to a hundred vampires and watch them interact under lab conditions and not see any change.
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-The White Court are not super alchemists.

-So how are they supposed to be able to tell that you won't change the formula between the one that you sent for testing and the one that you deliver later? Even IRL the composition of foods and drugs can change or be contaminated.
What vampires are going to volunteer to be used as guinea pigs in a lab?

-You are also asking that they take it on faith that an Infernal Hell Princess cant change the composition of MMP at will.
We know that we cant do that. THEY dont. And we sure as hell dont want to give them a detailed look at our powers anyway.
"Trust Me Bro" isn't gonna cut it.

-Hells and their denizen can be patient.
Supernaturals can be patient. Just the Yama Kings have schemes that last for hundreds of years. The Denarians have been at this shit for two thousand years. Even Kemmler spent a hundred and fifty years engineering WW1, and he was a mortal wizard.

The idea that other supernaturals would assume that because we've done nothing in the last year means we're completely safe is...not really credible.
 
uju32 said:
So how are they supposed to be able to tell that you won't change the formula between the one that you sent for testing and the one that you deliver later? Even IRL the composition of foods and drugs can change or be contaminated.
What vampires are going to volunteer to be used as guinea pigs in a lab?
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That is the case even if we made a potion with no mental effects. Come on here. I am of the opinion that we just don't tell them and see no way for them to figure it out themselves. They can't do a control experiment of before and after with a vampire talking to us the idea is absurd.
 
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uju32 said:
I mean, its worth noting that studying how the Will of Kakuri's corpse will give Molly some insight into how kueijin and akuma pull chi/life energy from their victims and the environment.
Which is effectively prepwork for the future.
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We can try that, but we may also want to try asking Crown questions for things like how Yi cursed the Wan Kuei to fear and rot in the sun.

That's a major, major change imposed on an entire supernatural species by a mortal.
 
fictionfan said:
They same is the case even if we made a potion with no mental effects. Come on here. I am of the opinion that we just don't tell them and see no way for them to figure it out themselves. They can't do a control experiment of before and after with a vampire talking to us the idea is absurd.
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Take a look at what the FDA testing protocols for new drugs are.
Starts at a minimum of 20 people for Phase 1 and all the way to 4-figures of people for Phase 3 and 4.
I am afraid that you simply dont understand the sheer scale of what you are suggesting.

Never mind that as the Court cannot test every single potion/product that we make, so they have to take it on faith that the products from April are the same as the ones in December.

And this is the supernatural world.
They cant sue us if after ten years of delivery, we suddenly poison everything in a single batch of the new potion.
Or if we introduce a binary poison over several years that can be activated with a delay.

You are simply not thinking on the scale of paranoia thats necessary in the deathworld of the Dresden Files.
Where a gift of a knife can be enough to get you possessed and corrupted by a mortal enemy.
Alratan said:
We can try that, but we may also want to try asking Crown questions for things like how Yi cursed the Wan Kuei to fear and rot in the sun.
That's a major, major change imposed on an entire supernatural species by a mortal.
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We dont know the origins of the Wan Kuei in this AU.
Or that August Emperor was ever a thing here.
Bigass question though.
 
uju32 said:
As far as the rest of the world is concerned, we are a Hell Princess.
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As far as the world is concerned, we are "who even knows? Because hell doesn't. Some manner of ancient godbeast. Did Carpenter's wife cheat on him with the Dragon or something?"
uju32 said:
I mean, its worth noting that studying how the Will of Kakuri's corpse will give Molly some insight into how kueijin and akuma pull chi/life energy from their victims and the environment.
Which is effectively prepwork for the future.
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Will of Kakuri is probably much better studied for Emma-O's knowledge of Exaltation. And his sword for knowledge of how such artifice is made. Though ok, maybe how akuma are made in detail could be useful too. It's too unique for generic questions about chi feeding. For that, we could use one of the mook akuma we killed or photos of other akuma.
 
uju32 said:
We dont know the origins of the Wan Kuei in this AU.
Or that August Emperor was ever a thing here.
Bigass question though.
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It seems likely the August Personage of Jade is another name for God. In which case we can't ask about Him.

And we don't know any particular reason to think their origin is different to their canon one. Originally the Wan Xian, then cursed by the August Personage of Jade not to have breath of their own and for the tests to become one to be escaping from a hell, and then later cursed again by the mortal and first of the Shih, Yi the Excellent Archer to fear and rot in the sun.

These are two or three different curses.
 
uju32 said:
Take a look at what the FDA testing protocols for new drugs are.

Starts at a minimum of 20 people for Phase 1 and all the way to 4-figures of people for Phase 3 and 4.

I am afraid that you simply dont understand the sheer scale of what you are suggesting.
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And that testing would find nothing.

uju32 said:
You are simply not thinking on the scale of paranoia thats necessary in the deathworld of the Dresden Files.
Where a gift of a knife can be enough to get you possessed and corrupted by a mortal enemy.
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The fact that gifted knife actually worked when the red court is known for being backstabbers and have been for longer than Molly has been alive underscores a certain lack of paranoia.
 
Yog said:
Will of Kakuri is probably much better studied for Emma-O's knowledge of Exaltation. And his sword for knowledge of how such artifice is made. Though ok, maybe how akuma are made in detail could be useful too. It's too unique for generic questions about chi feeding. For that, we could use one of the mook akuma we killed or photos of other akuma.
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The thing about akuma is that lesser akuma's ability to feed on breath and greater akuma's ability to feed on environmental chi is granted to them by their Yama King master, not an inherent reflection of their enlightenment as it is for a regular Wan Kuei.

Learning how to make a greater akuma would probably be much more useful than knowing what Kakuri knows of Exaltation.
 
fictionfan said:
The fact that gifted knife actually worked when the red court is known for being backstabbers and have been for longer than Molly has been alive underscores a certain lack of paranoia.
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More likely, the Nemesis infection was just really well hidden in the knife, beyond the normal sensory abilities of anyone who interacted with it. That makes more sense than to assume that everyone simply took it at face value as a non-poisoned gift and didn't do more than glance at it to check for obvious shenanigans.
 
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Arc 7 Post 12: Of Bones Stained Red
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    • Of Bones Stained Red ​

    31th of October 2006 A.D.

    What will dad think of me for agreeing? What will Harry? What do I tell Father Forthil at confession that I am willing to bargain with one monster the better to end another? The questions run though your mind like river water and like that water they leave much stuck fast, the doubts and fears that you cannot even properly name, much less excise. But you are not your doubts and you are not your fears, you are the girl running over black obsidian sands and if you know one thing it's that to slow down is to take a tumble. Begin as you mean to go on... Looking first at Lydia then back at the expectant vampire regent you say with what you hope is disarming nonchalance: "Seems reasonable. Sure."

    Underneath the table, you grip the table cloth on the table by one end and raise a finger. "Excuse me for a minute." Light poisonous bright pours from you at last, the dam of caution and will at last overcome into sudden violence as you explode upwards, the leading edge of the tablecloth scything ahead of you at supersonic speeds as your green-shrouded form lunges at the watcher. The improvised weapon curls around the veiled figure's neck and arms and tightens, a moment before you crash into its back with bone-dislocating force. Then you grapple, twisting in the air to bring the body down to the ground with your knee in their sternum. A smile slides onto your face as you consider your captive.

    For all the world he seems a man in his mid-twenties, dark of hair and eyes, though with black circles under his eyes speak of many lost nights. They widen in surprise those eyes and upon your lips there hangs a quip...

    It dies on your lips, as the hand of something vast and wretchedly ancient reaches from afar like the reek of rotten meat and the taste of bile rendered manifest upon the fabric of the world. A scream unlike anything you had ever thought could emerge from a human throat erupts from the man on the table, the skin muscle and cartilage of his face ripping as the bloody bone beneath starts to tear itself free. As you lunge at your purse for the potions you had brewed for quite another person, hoping they would be enough for him to heal through the damage, knowing it would not be Lara speaks with dreadful passion:

    "Live, live for me!"

    Whether by succubus' magic or just the ultimate desire of all mortal men to live, no matter what pacts they might have sworn or what their masters may have asked of them the broken spy does. His clothes are soaked through with blood, you realize distantly. All of his bones had been trying to rip their way out of his body.

    "What on earth is that?" Lydia asks, with the composure of her heritage, not her age.

    You open your mouth, the answer upon the tip of your tongue, then close it. You had felt that power before, if only in the distant and impersonal gaze of the Crown, the Naagloshii. It had been tying off loose ends, but if a curse from afar would not work...

    "We need to get him under wards now!"

    Lara however isn't looking at you, she is looking at Lydia. "Or we kill him on our terms and she collects his soul."

    Lydia looks downright disgusted at the thought, but she does not refuse outright, no doubt considering just as you are the time it would take to get under any decent wards. Does the bloody skinwalker care about exposure? On the one hand it had sent an invisible spy, on the other hand that same spy had been cursed to gruesomely tear themselves apart if captured.

    What do you do?

    [] Follow Lara's suggestion, once the spy is dead he is under Lydia's domain more than that of his master in life

    [] Try to get the spy under wards
    -[] To Harry, you trust him to have your back
    -[] Lara's place, nothing quite like dealing with a cannibalistic cosmic abomination to bring new allies together

    [] Write in

    OOC: This guy was unreasonably lucky... so now you have to deal with him.
     
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