Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
[X] Those who are willing to live without harming the mortals they feed upon and who will pledge to do enough services to maintain Mercy in Servitude
One of the harder things in disseminating that information is getting it trending before trending as it were. The internet was a lot more fragmented back then with message boards and chatrooms. Not to say you do not know a lot of those which minor talents use, but that is not quite what you need for introductory lessons, you would have to get them into the hands of the new ones who do not know what site to access.
For the record, it's possible to cast a broad and seemingly passive net while still being proactive.
Let's think about our target audience here; they came through Isabella, so they're probably on the younger side for a white vamp. Likely other fledglings and at most no more than a century old.
Young, excitable vampires just getting a feel for the supernatural and to whom everything is fresh and intriguing. There's also probably a chunk that just hit on something horrifying and are looking for an exit strategy.
From that framework these people seem wonderfully vulnerable to some classics that aren't likely to work against the organization as a whole.
Start with the free food; MiS for some light and simple work as the baseline vote states, but make a point to have it be work that gets them around our people so they form connections. Working at a soup kitchen is great, but making lunch for the Jade dogs is better because it gets them exposure.
Step two is to add some proverbial sex appeal, and make working with us a bit of a social game for them to play amongst themselves.
Come up with a token*, a brass ring, charm bracelets, whatever, and offer it to people who do a little more for us. Not anything dangerous, or directed against their existing loyalties, but a little more involved.
Instead of running little jobs on direct orders, we have them perform long running tasks. My favorite would be getting them to collect gossip for us on the shallow side of the supernatural pool, potentially including mortals with something of value to poke at.
Never anything pointed towards their families or court in general though. If we pick a charm bracelet here then we can periodically send out little extra charms for people who get something particularly interesting.
To be clear; I expect this to be no more than a half step less effective than using little folk, and the token thing is in fact objectively pointless.
The goal isn't the information itself, it's to get them to invest more energy into doing things for us and slowly get more invested in their involvement. Which is part of what the tokens are for**.
It's objectively silly and childish, but we're not dealing with jaded elders here. A little bit of spy movie bullshit is the exact kind of spice someone playing with their new supernatural social powers is likely to enjoy.
The charms or whatever we use would be to 'help' them form their own little social hierarchy that they'd then encourage themselves to climb. Which sounds silly, but little things like this can be surprisingly effective. Look at what people will do for Facebook likes for the perfect example of something inherently worthless driving people up a wall.
Next step is something like an internship at one of our companies, something that pays and has them do something that's definitely obviously supporting our interests. Maybe upgrade the token here too.
From there just keep boiling the frog with better rewards and more work until they look up and realize they've been working at a cube in our hell for the last decade and didn't even notice.
* With some supernatural crafting to make it seem extra nice.
** The other bit is good old in group our group thinking.
tldr: steal from cults, frats, and other luminaries of the useful idiot exploration industry to make our own environmentally friendly minion pipeline.
Let's think about our target audience here; they came through Isabella, so they're probably on the younger side for a white vamp. Likely other fledglings and at most no more than a century old.
Young, excitable vampires just getting a feel for the supernatural and to whom everything is fresh and intriguing. There's also probably a chunk that just hit on something horrifying and are looking for an exit strategy.
From that framework these people seem wonderfully vulnerable to some classics that aren't likely to work against the organization as a whole.
Start with the free food; MiS for some light and simple work as the baseline vote states, but make a point to have it be work that gets them around our people so they form connections. Working at a soup kitchen is great, but making lunch for the Jade dogs is better because it gets them exposure.
Step two is to add some proverbial sex appeal, and make working with us a bit of a social game for them to play amongst themselves.
Come up with a token*, a brass ring, charm bracelets, whatever, and offer it to people who do a little more for us. Not anything dangerous, or directed against their existing loyalties, but a little more involved.
Instead of running little jobs on direct orders, we have them perform long running tasks. My favorite would be getting them to collect gossip for us on the shallow side of the supernatural pool, potentially including mortals with something of value to poke at.
Never anything pointed towards their families or court in general though. If we pick a charm bracelet here then we can periodically send out little extra charms for people who get something particularly interesting.
To be clear; I expect this to be no more than a half step less effective than using little folk, and the token thing is in fact objectively pointless.
The goal isn't the information itself, it's to get them to invest more energy into doing things for us and slowly get more invested in their involvement. Which is part of what the tokens are for**.
It's objectively silly and childish, but we're not dealing with jaded elders here. A little bit of spy movie bullshit is the exact kind of spice someone playing with their new supernatural social powers is likely to enjoy.
The charms or whatever we use would be to 'help' them form their own little social hierarchy that they'd then encourage themselves to climb. Which sounds silly, but little things like this can be surprisingly effective. Look at what people will do for Facebook likes for the perfect example of something inherently worthless driving people up a wall.
Next step is something like an internship at one of our companies, something that pays and has them do something that's definitely obviously supporting our interests. Maybe upgrade the token here too.
From there just keep boiling the frog with better rewards and more work until they look up and realize they've been working at a cube in our hell for the last decade and didn't even notice.
* With some supernatural crafting to make it seem extra nice.
** The other bit is good old in group our group thinking.
tldr: steal from cults, frats, and other luminaries of the useful idiot exploration industry to make our own environmentally friendly minion pipeline.
For minor talents just ask Dresden he does help minor talents develop, and teach them things.
Which is why we visit google and infect it with cyberdevils so our videos are always trending when someone asks about magic.
Home computers are. Connectivity is not.
And privacy on the home computer only began to be a thing in many homes with the ascendancy of laptops and smartphones, else you're trying to share a system with the rest of your household.
1)Complementing personal tutoring is more along the lines of writing a primer and distributing it as reference/study material.
The White Council already does this.
2)Its very easy for your electronic media to get mirrored and used as a honeypot by people logging IPs of those innocent youngsters looking for enlightenment, and then target them in the real world.
Turning it into the digital equivalent of a watering hole in the Serengeti.
Or hostile people impersonate the identity you used to initially publish in order to publish supplementary texts with boobytrapped FUD.
This isnt like doing Khan Academy teaching videos.
If you're thinking of doing outreach, you need to consider how groups like the Red Court, the Pathfinders or the Stygian Sisterhood or the Holy Ascension of Our Lord or agents of Nemesis will try to take advantage of it. Or even just mundane grifters.
I mean, just look at the history of the Q Anon conspiracy theory in the US, and just how easily one set of writers took over the identity from the other. Or look at how many people have claimed to be Bitcoin's Sakamoto.
You seriously underestimate the scope and scale of the problem.
In terms of actually providing authenticable, verifiable safe material to noobs, books are much more reliable.
Its much harder to change the words on paper than the contents of a digital broadcast.
Its much easier for the student to verify the provenance of a published work than the qualifications or motives of some rando on the Internet. Its also much easier to ensure the people who get said books get in-person followup, instead of giving them just enough info to get into trouble.
When it comes to the occult, much as with medicine, first do no harm is a mantra to live by in the Dresdenverse.
My local library has limits on how long you can stay on a computer at a time, even now in the 2020s, let alone back in 2006.
No speakers either, or headphones.
At least now it offers free wifi to tnose who bring their own devices.
And Internet cafes cost significant money in the US when you can find them.
Last place I recall using one was in a hotel five or six years ago.
That is a thing you can do it you get line of sight to their servers yes
Teaching like that over the internet isn't really viable.
Teaching magic is apparently a highly individualistic process.
You can learn some stuff from reference sources but at this level it's sort of like trying to learn to mountain climb via a YouTube video and then trying it for the first time alone in the wilderness.
This stuff is dangerous, we shouldn't just sling information around just because we have it.
Edit:
This applies to passing lore around too. I'm not against sharing information exactly, but we should be in a position to actually apply judgement when we do so.
We probably wouldn't share information with obviously crazy people, to name one example, but if toss stuff online the only standard is the ability to find it.
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Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
[X] Those who are willing to live without harming the mortals they feed upon and who will pledge to do enough services to maintain Mercy in Servitude
-[X] They would obviously have to swear not to purposely oppose you or scheme against you
-[X] That is, of course, the minimum commitment necessary to gain our favor. Those who are willing to pledge themselves more fully, to take up our causes as if they were their own and to set aside lesser obligations, stand to benefit far more in the fullness of time. Our power and resources continue to grow, and we will soon be able to offer rewards commensurate with that growth to those who earn them.
Yog has successfully jumped on the most pertinent points. We don't need every soul to be willing to die for us, just to be willing to keep their heads down and play ball where reasonable.
-[X] They would obviously have to swear not to purposely oppose you or scheme against you
-[X] That is, of course, the minimum commitment necessary to gain our favor. Those who are willing to pledge themselves more fully, to take up our causes as if they were their own and to set aside lesser obligations, stand to benefit far more in the fullness of time. Our power and resources continue to grow, and we will soon be able to offer rewards commensurate with that growth to those who earn them.
Yog has successfully jumped on the most pertinent points. We don't need every soul to be willing to die for us, just to be willing to keep their heads down and play ball where reasonable.
The problem here is that the first of those sun votes is redundant as it's already covered under the charm and the rest is the world's most pathetic red flag of a recruitment attempt.
It's somewhere between a catcall and a Disney villain "join me" jab.
Recorded video lectures are a very effective tool in modern education, and, again, far easier to find for a younger generation. Not to mention that a number of people assimilate information easier in a form of a lecture.
Nothing is stopping them from doing the same without us making those videos. It's about the same amount of work, organizationally, to hijack our videos somehow (because remember, cyberdevils to at the very least constantly monitor internet for such), as it is to make similar ones from scratch.
That's, to say the very least, debatable. It's not hard to hijack publication process, or to print bootleg (altered) copies of the books and much harder to monitor for such actions in real time.
Not in this field at all. There are no wizards schools. White Council is a secretive organization that is not a government. There is no centralized or firmly established magical society of mortals. There's almost no way for a newly emerged talent to learn what's going on without exposing themselves to danger.
Any action at all, in any and all fields, always has a potential to backfire or to be twisted by malevolent competent opposition. The only answer to "first, do no harm" principle is to seclude yourself from the world and to do literally nothing.
Approximately 70% of USA households had personal computers by 2006. 86% of 18-29 adults were internet users. Prevalence of computers is not an issue.
COMMENTARY
Additional real estate.
Im assuming that trap door is inside a building that can be locked. Taking deliveries of stuff wont work if you're having to pile them up in the open besides a trap door.
Hopefully we can convert part of it into an automobile mechanic shop. Or we'll need to buy one we can hook up to Undertown.
We do owe Odin a couple SUVs.
Not sure why Molly bothered mentioning Chicago Synthetics without mentioning Thomas.
Not that it matters; Im reasonably confident that his sister Lara knows all about this little business venture.
And the rest of the White Court know about MiS anyway, ever since we used it on Isabella in front of Leinth.
This is the second time we've gotten indications that Madrigal Raith is doing something out of the ordinary.
Something bothersome. First the attempted hit on Agent Greene, and now this.
Might be worth taking some time to look into him.
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I agree with @BronzeTongue.
Just the process of draining the local resource pool of potential mooks and minions makes it materially harder for would-be plotters and masterminds to operate. And Whampires who care enough to avoid killing vanillas are malleable enough to be worked with.
Its part of the reason we're taking ghouls off the street.
If all they are doing is passing along gossip and warnings that they hear, we're halfway towards an early warning network.
Even if they do nothing at all other than mundane stuff, avoiding the deaths of muggles is a public good in its own right.
Softly, softly catchee monkee.
VOTE
[X] Those who are willing to live without harming the mortals they feed upon and who will pledge to do enough services to maintain Mercy in Servitude
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Those who are willing to live without harming the mortals they feed upon and who will pledge to do enough services to maintain Mercy in Servitude
I am reminded of the start up tech principle of blitz scaling. That is to scale up rapidly and worry about how to make it profitable latter. If we can get all supernatural predators using our service we can always alter the deal latter*. Right now we want maximum market penetration**.
*That is a constant with infernal charms the boot is always on our foot and when the other shoe drops it is never on us.
**Without causing harm that is.
I am reminded of the start up tech principle of blitz scaling. That is to scale up rapidly and worry about how to make it profitable latter. If we can get all supernatural predators using our service we can always alter the deal latter*. Right now we want maximum market penetration**.
*That is a constant with infernal charms the boot is always on our foot and when the other shoe drops it is never on us.
**Without causing harm that is.
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You're basically talking about giving lectures on DIY pipe bomb assembly here, the practicalities of it are a secondary concern at best.
Without some sort of two way network and community for people to be involved in it's too easy for this sort of thing to go wrong.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think you and @uju32 are interpreting Yog's suggestion a lot differently than I am. I'm thinking we'd be posting a "dangers of black magic" speech (we want everyone even remotely involved in magic to know about that), an overview of the major magical factions and the status quo involved (ditto), safety tips on "how not to get eaten" like we first got from the Ordo (also something we want widely spread), and a link to our website with a dedicated forum for exactly the kind of two-way communication you're talking about. That's hardly "DIY pipe bomb assembly." Add in some cyberdevils watching the internet around our videos and website for exactly the kind of abuses you guys are talking about and we should be fine.
Yeah, posting videos on how to cast fireball without any gatekeeping is a terrible idea. That doesn't mean that there isn't plenty of stuff that is safe to post. Stop catastrophising with the worst-case scenario that you can think of.
There've been multiple posts about teaching basic magic skills on this topic, and @Yog has been comparing it to recording full lectures.
handing out an overview of the major factions doesn't actually help most people, but would draw a lot of attention.
The not getting eaten stuff is also pretty regional, and there's such a thing as knowing just enough to get yourself in trouble.
Even in the case you describe how many idiots looking to go vampire hunting,
trap pixies in circles, or try things on the "do not do this" list are we willing to accept per person genuinely helped?
None of those groups have the expertise to out play us on the internet, like they are all old beings and even the common person they turn is hardly going to outplay our legions of cyber devils, we are at the perfect time to take over the internet, if we let the other powers have it, its a massive massive mistake. we can make the internet our domain.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
First step would be to take over some satellites. There are about 50 broken satellites in orbit at this time. If we fly up catch 3, fix them and put a cyber devils in then we have our own private worldwide network.
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Kemayo
A Certain Cheerful Tone Of Voice
- Location
- Missouri
[X] Those who are willing to live without harming the mortals they feed upon and who will pledge to do enough services to maintain Mercy in Servitude
This gets a bunch of White Court who're inclined to like us, try to protect us to maintain their benefits, and barred from actively working against us. It plays towards Molly's general values, and does good things overall for the mortals. It also can work as a "the first hit is free" taste towards later drawing these vampires deeper into our clutches...
Amusingly, this is also the Lara Raith option to take. It's the one where we're a friendly lesser-evil to them, easily kept on the back burner while they focus on the more up-front threats... until we're so enmeshed with them that they can't possibly resist us.
[] Those who are willing to take up your cause, even against the designs of the White Court, if they will pledge to you then their loialty shall be yours alone
This gets the entire power structure of the White Court intensely pissed off at us as soon as they learn about it. And they will learn about it, because they're the sneaky and socially-savvy vampires who can leverage a lot of indirect power against our support base once they decide we're a threat.
This gets a bunch of White Court who're inclined to like us, try to protect us to maintain their benefits, and barred from actively working against us. It plays towards Molly's general values, and does good things overall for the mortals. It also can work as a "the first hit is free" taste towards later drawing these vampires deeper into our clutches...
Amusingly, this is also the Lara Raith option to take. It's the one where we're a friendly lesser-evil to them, easily kept on the back burner while they focus on the more up-front threats... until we're so enmeshed with them that they can't possibly resist us.
[] Those who are willing to take up your cause, even against the designs of the White Court, if they will pledge to you then their loialty shall be yours alone
This gets the entire power structure of the White Court intensely pissed off at us as soon as they learn about it. And they will learn about it, because they're the sneaky and socially-savvy vampires who can leverage a lot of indirect power against our support base once they decide we're a threat.
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I am talking about DIY pipe bomb safety lectures. And even then the analogy breaks down way too hard to be useful.
What I am aiming at is the prevention of Molly's canon situation. Where a young talent explores their magic and breaks the laws out of ignorance. I am willing to bet that a statistically significant amount of warlocks are created that way. Simply people going down the wrong path because they don't know it's a wrong path. Teenagers trying to heal their sick grandma, psychics reading the minds of others, etc.
This is close to what I had in mind . The details are subject to workshopping, but it should be something like this. Essentially a net to catch young talents looking to find what the hell is going on, and a way to prevent them becoming Lawbreakers or food out of ignorance long enough to contact us / Paranet. This would, most likely, require some very introductory lectures on how to actually use their magic safely, but anything more developed than that would be on private servers and becoming available only when there's an established connection between them and the community.
It would be full lectures, but full introductory lectures. And the idiots are still there. The issue is that magical talent occurs in general population and expresses itself in ignorant teenagers who are wont to experiment with it.
Essentially, what I see being useful for the public is making a set of introductory lectures into magic. It would have the following goals:
1) Establish that Molly knows what she's talking about. So, when a young magical talent (who doesn't even know what magic is) goes through them, they have to get something tangible out of them. After listening to the lectures, the idea should be "hey, these lectures were damn useful and good, the author sure as hell knows far more than me on the subject, is a great teacher, and I should contact her to get even better"
2) Establish safety rules. Firmly embed into the ignorant minds only starting to experiment with their magic that you do not summon demons or hunt pixies, you do not read minds of others, and for the love of God-Empress-to-Be, you do not try to cure your old grandmother's Alzheimer's!
3) Establish in the mind of the listeners that the best idea of their life would be to contact Molly for their further education, if they don't want them, their family and friends to be eaten, enslaved or worse.
Based on the goal 1, the lectures would have to be more than just safety tips, but I consider it to be otherwise impossible to attain goals 2 and 3 with the target demographic. The lectures would also ideally need to be a part of larger informational infrastructure, specifically stuff like infecting google (and other search engines) with cyberdevils to monitor ad locate people watching Molly's videos.
I also favor making more advanced lectures as study aid materials, but those wouldn't be available for general audience. You'd need to become part of the community first, register at some website, probably do a meet and greet with someone. Establish, as you say, a two-way network.
My goals overall with these are:
1) Cut down on warlocks and fae slaves created out of ignorance
2) Create a net to catch future minions in
3) Create study aid material for minor talents to standardize their education, embed Laws into their minds as something that should be followed, and make it so when we actually use teaching charms, they are working off higher base.
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