Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Why would children be immune to outsiders then.

His story prove him a liar. She is constantly a petty vindictive bitch.
She's a bitch she does not like doing that neither does she hate it. It simply is mab smiles what like three times in the series? If she got joy from these things it would show not once is it shown though.

Also do you seriously think those children will be children by the time they're sent out there? Or human for that matter?
 
Also seriously torture it could easily be seen as Jim making a joke like he does with several quotes. Unless you think mab is a fun loving woman we all know and love. It also goes directly against a different word of god if that's how you interpret it.

When you consider the quote I gave, Jim saying Mab is fun loving takes on a completely different meaning.

Seeing as she gets her fun from needless cruelty, she could well love her fun.

It can be a joke while also being true.
 
When you consider the quote I gave, Jim saying Mab is fun loving takes on a completely different meaning.

Seeing as she gets her fun from needless cruelty, she could well love her fun.

It can be a joke while also being true.
No the other quote calls mab the fun loving woman we all know and love. You are saying I'm stretching things while doing the exact same thing. It's almost impossible to see mab enjoy herself in any of the books. I don't know why this is even an argument it's not like I'm arguing to keep mab if we can fix the problems getting rid of her causes. If word of god says that mab doesn't value herself or anyone in pursuit of defense of the outer gates I tend to think that is true. You saying that God is wrong I'm right when there is no actual evidence other than perceived cruel actions. Which yes are cruel does mab give a shit though no she clearly is not happy and I don't think she even can be.

Edit:Anyways gotta go and honestly I'm too tired to deal with this conversation emotionally speaking for now.
 
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For all we know, though, Those Outside could just be playing some sort of long game, where they make it seem like Mab and the Winter Court are necessary for defense. I don't know why they would, nor do I think that any of their reasons would be even remotely scrutable to me (or any of us), but they could be playing some form of long game here. For all we know, we could be playing into their hands this whole time.
Nemesis has been shown to not have to obey or be bound by rules. Why should we assume that that characteristic is limited to DF rules and laws, or even in-universe rules in general? For instance, not abiding to the primacy of perfect defenses over perfect attacks.
If that is the case, though, I would like to find out sooner rather than later. It would be a nasty (and likely rather fatal) surprise to find out that, say, Nemesis is some form of Supernal Perfect effect, or can otherwise ignore things like IPM. Even it having the ability to temporarily disable IPM would be rather daunting.
 
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She's a bitch she does not like doing that neither does she hate it. It simply is mab smiles what like three times in the series? If she got joy from these things it would show not once is it shown though.
I don't care if she enjoys it or not, she is needlessly cruel and incompetent. It doesn't matter if she enjoys it or not.
Also do you seriously think those children will be children by the time they're sent out there? Or human for that matter?
Just do that to the adults. And we see them in battle grounds, its just kungfu moves, hardly anything that strong.
when guns almost definitely don't work at the outer gates
Guns will almost certainly work. The nevernever is shaped by human belifs and dreams and guns have been part of human psyche as tool of death for centuries at this point. An Ak will almost certainly work given their entire thing about always working no matter what.
 
The nevernever is shaped by human belifs and dreams and guns have been part of human psyche as tool of death for centuries at this point. An Ak will almost certainly work given their entire thing about always working no matter what.
Are we sure that it's shaped only by human beliefs there of all places? I wouldn't be surprised if Those Outside could, to some degree or another, manipulate that portion of the Nevernever however they so chose.
 
I don't care if she enjoys it or not, she is needlessly cruel and incompetent. It doesn't matter if she enjoys it or not.

Just do that to the adults. And we see them in battle grounds, its just kungfu moves, hardly anything that strong.

Guns will almost certainly work. The nevernever is shaped by human belifs and dreams and guns have been part of human psyche as tool of death for centuries at this point. An Ak will almost certainly work given their entire thing about always working no matter what.
Dresden notes guns don't work in a lot of places in the nevernever to Murphy doubt they work against the outsiders.

Also the whole argument is that she enjoys these things I'm not saying I want to keep her for tuck sakes. Mab can't enjoy these things as far as I know and not once has she shown she does. Also incompetence is a bit much when we know they've been defending it as long as they have. Also it's not even the nevernever it's outside.

Edit: also seriously got to go
 
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you recognize the faces of the original Jade Dogs, a filthy as they had been when you had first met, each one chained to the wall... all looking up to another pipe in the far wall, though what might lay behind if you do not know for what is not the question you asked.
That seems like an environmental danger that we are trying to save them from.
 
Are we sure that it's shaped only by human beliefs there of all places? I wouldn't be surprised if Those Outside could, to some degree or another, manipulate that portion of the Nevernever however they so chose.
I mean so what, they could also make melee weapons ineffective by that logic.
Dresden notes guns don't work in a lot of places in the nevernever to Murphy doubt they work against the outsiders.
Dreden doesn't know anything. He isn't an explorer of the nevernever, dude doesn't have any reason to be used as a source.
Also the whole argument is that she enjoys these things I'm not saying I want to keep her for tuck sakes. Mab can't enjoy these things as far as I know and not once has she shown she does
But she is still cruel, her enjoyment of it doesn't matter at all.
 
I mean so what, they could also make melee weapons ineffective by that logic.

Dreden doesn't know anything. He isn't an explorer of the nevernever, dude doesn't have any reason to be used as a source.

But she is still cruel, her enjoyment of it doesn't matter at all.
Okay now waiting on bus. Dresden is taught by his grandfather. Also yes it's the fucking nevernever certain things don't work in certain places swords are just more likely to work in general. There are definitely places where swords stop working that's kinda irrelevant since basically anything can happen in it. Also not trusting Dresden for this one thing is ridiculous guns sometimes not working in certain places is not something that he's probably wrong on. Dresden didn't claim to know what wouldn't work where just certain things won't work in certain places.
 
Okay now waiting on bus. Dresden is taught by his grandfather. Also yes it's the fucking nevernever certain things don't work in certain places swords are just more likely to work in general. There are definitely places where swords stop working that's kinda irrelevant since basically anything can happen in it. Also not trusting Dresden for this one thing is ridiculous guns sometimes not working in certain places is not something that he's probably wrong on. Dresden didn't claim to know what wouldn't work where just certain things won't work in certain places.
Bro didn't even know you can teleport until the latest book, or how the fairy courts or the vampire courts worked. He is almost always wrong on his first guess.

I can accept that guns don't work someplace. But it doesn't mean that adults would be ineffective but children would be effective.
 
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Bro didn't even know you can teleport until the latest book, or how the fairy courts or the vampire courts worked. He is almost always wrong on his first guess.
He learned this from his grandpa this is a stupid argument certain things don't work in certain places. Also it's never actually said the nevernever works based off human belief just assumed. Aside from that outsiders explicitly break rules. But, in certain places certain things don't work he learned that from the senior council member who gets around the most.
 
He learned this from his grandpa this is a stupid argument certain things don't work in certain places. Also it's never actually said the nevernever works based off human belief just assumed. Aside from that outsiders explicitly break rules. But, in certain places certain things don't work he learned that from the senior council member who gets around the most.
It evidently does. Your dreams can form temporary domains in the nevernever.

But guns are just hittinh things with fast things, if they can make them stop them from hurting they can makes kungfuc ineffective.
 
Bro didn't even know you can teleport until the latest book, or how the fairy courts or the vampire courts worked. He is almost always wrong on his first guess.

I can accept that guns don't work someplace. But it doesn't mean that adults would be ineffective but children would be effective.
I mean no one's saying children would be effective they definitely wouldn't be children when they're done with they'd be some kind of fae most likely.
 
It evidently does. Your dreams can form temporary domains in the nevernever.

But guns are just hittinh things with fast things, if they can make them stop them from hurting they can makes kungfuc ineffective.
I mean yes that's not really an argument certain places have certain rules. Nevernever is big Dresden never said guns worked no where there just that they don't work in some places there also that swords and shit usually work more not always.
It evidently does. Your dreams can form temporary domains in the nevernever.

But guns are just hittinh things with fast things, if they can make them stop them from hurting they can makes kungfuc ineffective.
No argument it affects it whether it's strictly only affected by the one thing is debatable.
 
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I'm going to talk about canon for a bit, Dresdenverse canon in particular since Mab and her moral inclinations have come up so much. I think that for all his qualities as a writer Jim Butcher is a rather bad philosopher. He mystifies the concept of Free Will, assuring the reader that it is the sole province of humanity (fails at that, look at the White Court) then doubles down on the notion that the fey are least lack this magical Free Will (TM)... which also does not hold water. I don;t just mean things like Mab being cruel to Slade, but also Leah being kind, or caring (in her own twisted way) Toot and company being brave. The fey demonstrate a capacity for good and evil all the time in the series, just one that is constrained by their nature to be fair before all else.
 
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You can get a certain amount of mileage out of "this is what Harry believes, and he may or may not be right", since he's our main source of information on all these topics, and he's definitely strongly-presented as a extremely unreliable narrator throughout...
 
I'm going to talk about canon for a bit, Dresdenverse canon in particular since Mab and her moral inclinations have come up so much. I think that for all his qualities as a writer Jim Butcher is a rather bad philosopher. He mystifies the concept of Free Will, assuring the reader that it is the sole province of humanity (fails at that, look at the White Court) then doubles down on the notion that the fey are least lack this magical Free Will (TM)... which also does not hold water. I don;t just mean things like Mab being cruel to Slade, but also Leah being kind, or caring (in her own twisted way) Toot and company being brave. the fey demonstrate a capacity for good and evil all the time in the series, just one that is constrained by their nature to be fair before all else.
I mean they have choice just not free will. Their generally constrained to certain thought patterns that doesn't mean they can't make millions of different decisions.

Edit: also white court are humans? Just cause their choice sucks doesn't mean there is no choice. Nor that others can't think they are completely monsters.
 
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I mean they have choice just not free will. Their generally constrained to certain thought patterns that doesn't mean they can't make millions of different decisions.

The question comes to mind: what is the difference between choice and free will? It is a very unfair question since it's really asking 'what is the nature of good and evil?' Being charitable Butcher might have an answer to what those things are to him and the fey might follow it, but he isn't being very clear or consistent about it and I can only work with what's on the page.
 
The question comes to mind: what is the difference between choice and free will? It is a very unfair question since it's really asking 'what is the nature of good and evil?' Being charitable Butcher might have an answer to what those things are to him and the fey might follow it, but he isn't being very clear or consistent about it and I can only work with what's on the page.
I mean it's not really butchers made it kind of clear that the world isn't fair and free will isn't all good. Fae don't have the free will to change however they want without outside influence. They can still choose plenty of things their minds are just generally stuck in certain ways like a lot of other supernatural creatures. White court make a decision at no point has butcher said it's a good one, a fair one, or even one they know they have. Just that it exists. He also makes clear there are things against the established rules from outside which can break free will and whatever black court vampires are which are vaguely something different.
 
How do white court actually in any way break free will or even red court stuff? Not counting outsider stuff? The choices available suck yes they don't break anything though right?
 
I mean it's not really butchers made it kind of clear that the world isn't fair and free will isn't all good. Fae don't have the free will to change however they want without outside influence. They can still choose plenty of things their minds are just generally stuck in certain ways like a lot of other supernatural creatures. White court make a decision at no point has butcher said it's a good one, a fair one, or even one they know they have. Just that it exists. He also makes clear there are things against the established rules from outside which can break free will and whatever black court vampires are which are vaguely something different.

I'm not saying the world he made is unfair I'm saying it would be unfair to ask you, or anyone else 'what is the difference between choice and free will' because it is such a hard question and not one I expect an urban fantasy writer to provide the answer to.

As for just saying 'the inconsistencies are just how things are' that does not fix anything, other that we now need another word for Mortal Free Will and the more restrained free will of say the white court.
 
I'm not saying the world he made is unfair I'm saying it would be unfair to ask you, or anyone else 'what is the difference between choice and free will' because it is such a hard question and not one I expect an urban fantasy writer to provide the answer to.

As for just saying 'the inconsistencies are just how things are' that does not fix anything, other that we now need another word for Mortal Free Will and the more restrained free will of say the white court.
I mean nothing the white court has actually stops free will? They can still do anything a normal person can. It can just lead to horrible consequences and death. They can also choose to basically give up free will and let the hunger stuff just take over.
 
How do white court actually in any way break free will or even red court stuff? Not counting outsider stuff? The choices available suck yes they don't break anything though right?

In Butcher's worldbuilding Free Will (TM) is a quality of humans, this is most obvious in the RPG where you spend refresh Free Will Bucks to get shinny magic, but if you spend too many you become a non free willed being like one of the fey or a a vampire
 
In Butcher's worldbuilding Free Will (TM) is a quality of humans, this is most obvious in the RPG where you spend refresh Free Will Bucks to get shinny magic, but if you spend too many you become a non free willed being like one of the fey or a a vampire
I mean losing it is part of free will? You don't actually need to know what your doing to have made a bad decision right?
 
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