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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Artemis1992 said:
They do have to aim their enemy-targetting spells usually and there are rules for aiming at small targets like the foe's gun or head. It increases the difficuly of the attack.
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that is if you shoot a firebolt. you don't have to tho. Can enchant the gun - no aim necessary.
Artemis1992 said:
That seems to me like it would be the primary use of Erupting Fury Rebuke.
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I meant WoD, not exalted. Even so, that is more of a general AOE attack. It targets ALL human works, so a sword a mobile or even a bottle are as viable as a gun.
BronzeTongue said:
It's worth remembering that we aren't playing WoD, or even ExWoD exactly; It's DF using ExWoD mechanics.
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that's why I mentioned WoD specifically.
 
@DragonParadox I am writing up a comprehensive summary of Path Magic for thread reference. Should I include the Paths from secondary books like Hunters Hunted II? I was going to cover Sorcerer Revised and M20 Sorcerer, but are you using the other stuff as well?
 
Aeondrac said:
@DragonParadox I am writing up a comprehensive summary of Path Magic for thread reference. Should I include the Paths from secondary books like Hunters Hunted II? I was going to cover Sorcerer Revised and M20 Sorcerer, but are you using the other stuff as well?
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Secondary paths would be useful. I will not promise all of them will be included unchanged, but the more background the better when it comes to modeling the rather free style of Dresdenverse magic.
 
Ok I will include as much as I have access to then. Though it won't be up tonight as I have only just started of the M20 stuff.
 
What is the cost for activating Shintai, and do we take any additional damage after ending it? I seem to remember that it costs/causes damage to activate?
 
TonedMite said:
What is the cost for activating Shintai, and do we take any additional damage after ending it? I seem to remember that it costs/causes damage to activate?
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2 essence and 2 willpower. The first activation doesn't require a roll, but after that it requires rolling essence against a starting difficulty 6 that increases by 1 with every additional use.

There isn't a damage cost though, in fact damage doesn't transfer between Shintai and regular tracks in either direction.

What you're thinking of is the consequence of being forced out early, which is taking 4 unsoakable bashing to Molly's regular health track.
 
Starting with social combat, possibly moving to actual combat if we end up killing them instead of flipping them, because we can't afford to have them as enemy reinforcements no matter how the talks go.

Yeah, that's a lot of dice.
 
the DragonBard said:
Next time we get XP, we buy the recipe for the skill bonus potion!
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Awakened Eye of the Dragon should be our bread and butter. With it, Essence Dissecting Stare and RVD we can quickly move between a number of Dragon Nests (in Chicago and on the bottom of lake and ocean floors), and perform the right for scaleable bonuses. Even just 5 or so Dragon Nests would boost us and, more importantly, our party members to pretty ridiculous levels.
 
Alratan said:
They do both, but Wan Kuei are a lot more powerful than mortals individually.
It doesn't mean that Ravana isn't doing his best to recruit mortals to trigger nuclear war between India, Pakistan, and China.

Seriously, while Yin weapons are nice, they're small scale compared to things like man-portable anti-tank weapons, let along even conventional air launched weapons or missiles. A regular human in charge of a Reaper drone with Hellfire missiles can do more damage than a regular human with Eightfold Yin Prana gear, and a Wan Kuei can use four dots of the Obligation discipline to control them.

Note that the Yama Kings need Wan Kuei servants for both arming mortals with Yon weapons or mind controlling them to get access to military weapons.
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1)Trying and having little success.

2)I find it instructive that the cyberpunk dystopia that's the Wicked City, with cyberware and literal cyborg enforcers carrying heavy weapons, isnt out there deploying manportable antitank weapons and demon-possessed flying machines as standard. The OOC reason is Plot, of course, but if it was such a crushing advantage it would have done more for Mikaboshi than it has already.

3)The Yama Kings are also paranoid, distrustful entities who have no interest in indadvertently giving anyone enough power to pose a threat to themselves. Even their own akuma.
The Hells of Yomi Wan are inefficient by design, because trust is not a thing.

Aeondrac said:
Off hand I would say, Lernaen Hydra, Mab and a Light Elemental (and possibly Ravana).
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Not really.
Ravana's Hell got wrecked by fire.

MazeoftheSwamp said:
I am sorry. But I don't think you understand how potent Yama Kings can be: even outside their domain.

Restricted yes, but that does not mean they are by necessity less personally formidable than their competitors. I even have citations on how powerful Yama Kings can be whilst wandering the mortal world:

According to the bolded: they feel small and weak, but that is still enough to murder anybody who is not an Arhat/Sixth Rank Changing breed/Archmage.

Fudge it; I will even give you an example of just how mighty a prospective Yama King could be without her Hell-Realm:

Keep in mind: this feat of killing a continent size Devil Tyrant was in Rangda younger years before getting empowered by the Hell of Burrowing Maggots, and the advent of the late fifth age. How strong do you think she is now, after so many years? After gorging on the Corrupt Chi of ten to the power of ten thousand mortals?

Just as a bench mark: here is what a fully mature Yama King can do inside their estate:

And Rangda as a youth could still destroy this - no wimp gets to play pretender at the throne of God.
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Most Yama King personal power comes from their Hell, and the power they milk from their victims and location.
Cut it off, damage it, and their power shrivels. Happened to Dokhor-Khan, happened to Ravana. There are apparent exceptions like the Wandering Overlord, who rules no Hell, but we know nothing about him.

Their ability to 1v1 most kueijin doesnt really translate to an ability to solo a party of them, or to maintain effectiveness against people bearing banes to infernal power.
I mean, its worth remembering that canonically Tou Mu herself got into a fight with the Wan Xian and got her then-avatar killed.

And Yomi Wan feats are just that: Yomi Wan feats.

EDIT
This is the full Rangda quote:
Thousand Hells p39 and p40 said:
THE GREAT BEAST
Within the Hell of Boring Maggots is a formation that
appears to be a large white mountain. It is home to the
largest and most vile of all the realm's inhabitants. As
visitors approach this area, they begin to understand why
this is the case. The outcropping that appears to be a
mountain is actually the remains of a creature of immense
size that died in this place long ago. Some have said that the
beast was there before Rangda herself, and that it has been
dead longer than the world has lived. The creatures that feed
off of it cover it like a swarming blanket, but strands of
gnawed pink flesh can still be seen flapping in the stench-
ridden breeze. What the creature once was cannot be seen
past the layer of maggots that cover it, and many suspect that
even Rangda does not know what kind of beast rests here.
Others tell the story that Rangda wanted this domain and
he enormous Yama King who claimed the realm made
himself the size of a small continent so that he could
pulverize the young Queen. By afflicting the brute with
every conceivable disease all at once, Rangda destroyed the
Yama King and carved out a niche for herself in the Thou-
sand Hells.

In any case, it appears that it may take an eternity to
fully devour the monster, and the creatures that feed off its
carcass are wtithout a doubt the largest and most aggressive
of this realm's maggots. Some have reached the size of a blue
whale, while the smallest of them is at least six feet long.
These creatures also seem to have developed a rudimentary
intellect and means of communication, allowing them to act
in synchrony.
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TLDR
Noone knows the origin of the Great Beast, or what killed it, or when.
All we have is explicitly rampant speculation.
You cant use its existence as a feat for a Yama King.

And that assumes its actually dead.
P40
THE NATURE OF THE GREAT BEAST?

Among those few souls who have seen it, the
nature of the Great Beast is subject to intense
fcate. Some believe that the beast is somehow
tied to creation, and that when it is gone, the
universe will cease to be. Others believe that it is
the corpse of some long-forgotten entity who ruled
the place before it became tainted and annexed
to Yomi.

In times past, a foolhardy chi'n ta entered this
hell to see the beast. Devising a way to shield
himself from the hell's inhabitants, he simply sat
and watched. Days later, he returned to his monas-
tery, pale-faced and feverish. For a long while he
screamed only gibberish. Even his soul-companion
could coax only two words from him before he
finally took his own life: «

"It moved."
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===
Furthermore?
I think you are accounting poorly for what naagloshii are in the Dresdenverse, and how that translates in this AU.
Citations from Turn Coat, and one Word of Jim:
I sighed and rubbed at my temples, closing my eyes. "You said the skinwalkers were semidivine?"
"You're using the English word, which doesn't really describe them very precisely. Most skinwalkers are just people-powerful, dangerous, and often psychotic people, but people. They're successors to the traditions and skills taught to avaricious mortals by the originals. The naagloshii."
"Originals like Shagnasty," I said.
"He's the real deal, all right," Bob replied, his quiet voice growing more serious. "According to some of the stories of the Navajo, the naagloshii were originally messengers for the Holy People, when they were first teaching humans the Blessing Way."
"Messengers?" I said. "Like angels?"
"Or like those guys on bikes in New York, maybe?" Bob said. "Not all couriers are created identical, Mr. Lowest-Common-Denominator. Anyway, the original messengers, the naagloshii, were supposed to go with the Holy People when they departed the mortal world. But some of them didn't. They stayed here, and their selfishness corrupted the power the Holy People gave them. Voila, Shagnasty."
I grunted. Bob's information was anecdotal, which meant it could well be distorted by time and by generations of retelling. There probably wasn't any way to know the objective truth of it-but a surprising amount of that kind of lore remained fundamentally sound in oral tradition societies like those of the American Southwest. "When did this happen?"
"Tough to say," Bob said. "The traditional Navajo don't see time the way most mortals do, which makes them arguably smarter than the rest of you monkeys. But it's safe to assume prehistory. Several millennia."
Yikes.
Thousands of years of survival meant thousands of years of accumulated experience. It meant that Shagnasty was smart and adaptable. The old skinwalker wouldn't still be around if it wasn't. I upgraded the creature, in my thoughts, from "very tough" to "damned near impossibly tough."


Turn Coat Chapter 29, Page 268-269
I wasn't worried about the skinwalker sneaking up on me. Oh, sure, he might do it, but not cold. Supernatural beings like the skinwalker had so much power that reality itself gets a little strained around them wherever they go, and that has a number of side effects. One of them is a sort of psychic stench that goes with them-a presence that my instincts had twigged to long before the skinwalker had been in a position to do me any real harm.
Read a little folklore, the stuff that hasn't been prettied up by Disney and the like. Start with the Brothers Grimm. It won't tell you about skinwalkers, but it will give you a good idea of just how dark some of those tales can be.
Skinwalkers are dark compared to that. You've got to get the real stories from the peoples of the Navajo, Ute, and other Southwestern tribes to get the really juicy material. They don't talk about them often, because the genuine and entirely rational fear the stories inspire only makes the creatures stronger. The tribes rarely talk about them with outsiders, because outsiders have no foundation of folklore to draw upon to protect themselves-and because you never know when the outsider to whom you're telling dark tales might be a skinwalker, looking to indulge a sense of macabre irony. But I've been in the business awhile, and I know people who know the stories. They'd confided a handful to me, in broad daylight, looking nervously around them as they spoke, as if afraid that dredging up the dark memories might catch a skinwalker's attention.
Because sometimes it did.
That's how bad skinwalkers are. Even amongst the people who know the danger they represent, who know better than anyone else in the world how to defend against them, no one wants to talk about skinwalkers.
But in a way, it worked in my favor. Walking down a dark alley in the middle of a Chicago night, and stepping over the spot on the concrete where I'd almost been ripped to pieces just wasn't spooky enough to encompass the presence of a skinwalker. If things got majorly Tales from the Darkside creepy and shivery, I'd know I was in real trouble.


Turn Coat Chapter 6, Page 44
I focused my whole concentration on the skinwalker, and waited.
The skinwalker, I realized a moment later, was enormously powerful. I'd known that already, of course, but I hadn't been able to appreciate the threat it represented beyond the purely physical, even though I'd viewed it through my Sight.
(That memory welled up again, trying to club me unconscious as it had before. It was difficult, but I shoved it away and ignored it.)
Through Demonreach, I could appreciate its presence in a more tactile sense. The skinwalker was virtually its own ley line, its own well of power. It had so much metaphysical mass that the dark river of energy flowing up from beneath the tower was partially disrupted by its presence, in much the same way as the moon causes tidal shifts. The island reflected that disruption in many subtle ways. Animals fled from the naagloshii as they might from the scent of a forest fire. Insects fell silent. Even the trees themselves seemed to grow hushed and quiet, despite the cold wind that should have been causing their branches to creak, their leaves to whisper.


Turn Coat Chapter 44, Page 433-434
Q: How and why did the skinwalker take Thomas?
A: Thomas was distracted by Binder's minions and the skinwalker saw the opportunity. It knew that Thomas is important to Harry, but not necessarily that Thomas is Harry's brother. The skinwalker exists in more than one dimension at a time and it has its own kind of intellectus when it comes to evil – it knows what will hurt you and scare you, even though it may not really know why. It took Thomas because he knew it would hurt and scare Harry. How it tortured Thomas wasn't part of any direction it was given to turn Thomas back into a monster, it was done because the skinwalker knew what would hurt Thomas and torment him, more than just physically.


2009 Independence signing (Jim Butcher)
Naagloshii are goddamn bloody terrifying. Even though they abhor the idea of a fair fight, I have no doubt they'd eat a set of greater akuma like a Happy Meal. And I am serious when saying that I would bet on a elder naagloshii against most Yama Kings in a whiteroom fight outside Yomi Wan.

Listens to Wind is the local White Council equivalent of an Arete 5/6+ Archmage, and he still only drove Shagnasty off.
And broke his own arm doing so.

Molly?
Is cheating hard, because she's inheritor to a power that predates the Hells as a thing. Might even predate this Reality, at least in this AU. There's a reason Infernals are supposed to be candidates for the Demon Emperor hat.

===
More generally, its worth looking at the other prominent Yama Kings, their origins and deaths.

Mikaboshi was a human geomancer from around the Chou/Zhou Dynasty(roughly 1050-250BC) who ran off to Yomi and set up a town that grew. Emma-O was originally a judge/spirit guide in the Ainu spirit realms.

Ravana got Lanka burned to the ground and devastated by a hengeyokai after he pissed enough people in the Middle Kingdom off.
Tou Mu got herself eaten by the archmage Voormas during the Time of Judgement. And there are multiple largely unnamed Yama Kings who have gotten themselves ganked by agents of the Middle Kingdom at one time or the other.

Back in the time of the Mongols circa the 12th century AD, Dokhor-Khan of the Hell of Spiked Chains had his power crippled by Kuejin attacking his source of tainted chi and cutting it off, which allowed other Yama Kings to eat him and his Hell. Same shit that happened to Ravana, just hasnt gotten to the eating yet.

There's a theme here.

Yama Kings are powerful entities.
But a vast chunk of the power of almost every corrupt YK is tied up in the institution they control, and is dependent on it.
Like an appliance with a plug to the mains.

This does not appear to be true for Haha no Fukami, who doesnt appear to have betrayed her original contract. Much.
And it wasnt true for Yen Lo, First of the Fallen, who kept the terms of his appointment scrupulously and got murdered for it by a coalition of fellow Yama Kings who coveted his Hell and the prisoners there.

Alratan said:
A thermobaric RPG-7 round, the TP-7V costs around $250. We literally are talking RPG-7s. Currently Wagner is sending squads of untrained conscripted prisoners on suicide runs into Bakhumut each carrying multiple of them to soften up Ukrainian defences. They're not complicated to use.
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This is misleading.

RPG-7s are industrial products, the end result of multimillion dollar industrial processes and the labor of thousands of people, from mining raw material to synthesizing the chemical explosves to producing the end product from factories that were themselves the result of tens of thousands of hours of investment.

They are only so cheap because tney are massproduced. You cannot make them artisanally in a cave with Chi.
Equating them with a sword as no real big deal is the same as suggesting that cellphones are no big deal because you can buy a new Motorola G for $250, even though its more powerful than supercomputers of the Cold War.

Alratan said:
Fair enough. Although, that mainly applies to arming mortals. Wan Kuei are relatively high tier supernaturals. One of the notable things about them compared to regular White Wolf vampires is that they have particularly easy access to ways of doing aggravated damage. Whether that's from their demon Shintai's demon weapon like Molly or the multiple different other disciplines that give it, it's something they're particularly good at.

As a side note; I'd interpret the loop garou's ability to heal from any blow save those made with inherited silver and Nic's noose as perfect defences with flaws rather than something that aggravated damage is meaningful to.
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Nicodemus Archleone clearly has an Artifact NA that gives him a perfect defense against dying(Flaws: Swords, being strangled by the noose) in addition to the Barabbas Curse.
That I can agree with.

However, the loup garou healing is no such thing.
Its basically the same thing as Cephalid Regeneration from Ex2.

Cephalids Regeneration (Debris from the Fallen Races p. 27)

Heals two levels of bashing damage or one level of lethal damage an action, unless the damage is dealt by heat or flame.
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Just replace the Fire vulnerability with Inherited Silver.

Alratan said:
That's true, but claws also aren't great weapons.
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??? Claws are great weapons in WoD.
The standard set of Garou claws deals Str+2 either Lethal or Agg, same as our Demon Sword.
Am I missing something?
 
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uju32 said:
Ravana got Lanka burned to the ground and devastated by a hengeyokai after he pissed enough people in the Middle Kingdom off.
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To be fair, that was an inherent danger to a heavily Yang-balanced Hell I think.
Not a lack of power, just a question of his nature.
Oure Yang is both highly flammable and so inherently aggressive that using it imbalanced can easily lead you to making too many enemies, even besides the nature of the Yama-Kings in general.

uju32 said:
Listens to Wind is the local White Council equivalent of an Arete 5/6+ Archmage, and he still only drove Shagnasty off.
And broke his own arm doing so.
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But keep in mind that he was just one archmage (and not of the nearly unrestricted kind in Mage) and he drove Shagnasty back.
I would not bet on any single Senior Councillor 1v1 against a Yama-King.
In fact I would guess that they would propably want to prepare and take all available advantages against a Greater Akuma, rather than try to fight one suddenly like Joseph managed against the Naagloshii.
 
Artemis1992 said:
To be fair, that was an inherent danger to a heavily Yang-balanced Hell I think.
Not a lack of power, just a question of his nature.
Oure Yang is both highly flammable and so inherently aggressive that using it imbalanced can easily lead you to making too many enemies, even besides the nature of the Yama-Kings in general.
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True.
But I still think its instructive that a goddamn hengeyokai with a couple borrowed Gifts could essentially turn Lanka from a Tier 1 superpower in Yomi Wan to a failed state. It speaks to glaring vulnerabilities that are evident to anyone with eyes and occult knowledge.

Artemis1992 said:
But keep in mind that he was just one archmage (and not of the nearly unrestricted kind in Mage) and he drove Shagnasty back.
I would not bet on any single Senior Councillor 1v1 against a Yama-King.
In fact I would guess that they would propably want to prepare and take all available advantages against a Greater Akuma, rather than try to fight one suddenly like Joseph managed against the Naagloshii.
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With preptime? I would.

Like I said, in World of Darkness the archmage Voormas vored the Yama Queen Tou Mu during the events of Time of Judgement.
Just cut her off from the millions of souls she was tapping for power, then ate her. Yes it was a betrayal, but the fact that it was even possible says interesting things about their power levels.

In the Dresdenverse setting, Dresden locked down the Erl King in a summoning circle. And he sure as hell isnt Senior Council yet.
As both mortals and supernaturals, wizards get certain perks.

Wizards will always take preptime if offered, mind.
But Yama Kings and those servants who they own body and soul have pretty clear weaknesses to any knowledgeable wizard, and Senior Council have the power and connections to exploit them.

Thats not to say that a greater akuma couldnt kill a Senior Council member if they are fast and lucky and strike from ambush.
But I'd bet on the Senior Council member.
 
uju32 said:
Like I said, in World of Darkness the archmage Voormas vored the Yama Queen Tou Mu during the events of Time of Judgement.
Just cut her off from the millions of souls she was tapping for power, then ate her. Yes it was a betrayal, but the fact that it was even possible says interesting things about their power levels.
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Keep in mind that WoD Archmages are just full-on reality benders in the worst ways.
I would strongly assume that here even the Senior Council is limited to spells the they learn and such, rather than being able to freeform anything their Spheres might possibly allow.
Dresden Files just doesn't have Wizards reaching the point where they realise that all of reality is subject to their enlightened minds, which is a good decision. Mages are only fun if they are restricted by their limited understanding and the tools and mindset of their paradigm, after that it's just infinite powerplay.

uju32 said:
In the Dresdenverse setting, Dresden locked down the Erl King in a summoning circle. And he sure as hell isnt Senior Council yet.
As both mortals and supernaturals, wizards get certain perks.
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That's more of a mix of "mortal Agency" and huge willpower I would guess?

uju32 said:
Wizards will always take preptime if offered, mind.
But Yama Kings and those servants who they own body and soul have pretty clear weaknesses to any knowledgeable wizard, and Senior Council have the power and connections to exploit them.

Thats not to say that a greater akuma couldnt kill a Senior Council member if they are fast and lucky and strike from ambush.
But I'd bet on the Senior Council member.
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I guess I mostly agree with this, a prepared powerful Wizard could propably deal with any single gribbly.
Disagree on the ambush though, being human-ish is a great weakness when you have someone who is both very stealthy and can use Black Wind to deal huge burst-damage if he doesn't have to split his actions into anything more than attacking for all its worth.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Keep in mind that WoD Archmages are just full-on reality benders in the worst ways.
I would strongly assume that here even the Senior Council is limited to spells the they learn and such, rather than being able to freeform anything their Spheres might possibly allow.

Dresden Files just doesn't have Wizards reaching the point where they realise that all of reality is subject to their enlightened minds, which is a good decision. Mages are only fun if they are restricted by their limited understanding and the tools and mindset of their paradigm, after that it's just infinite powerplay.
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Dresden Files mages can kill Dragons, set off volcanoes and earthquakes, deorbit satellites, raise undead armies, craft golems, run divinity ascension rituals, murder entire bloodlines, bodyjump, and pact with intellectus-providing spirits. Some of them even have horizon realms in the NeverNever; the Gatekeeper's is explicitly past the moon iirc.

They're full on reality benders in all the ways that matter.
Its just restricted to elder wizards at this point, and our protagonist in canon barely hit forty.

Artemis1992 said:
That's more of a mix of "mortal Agency" and huge willpower I would guess?
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Thats my understanding.

Artemis1992 said:
I guess I mostly agree with this, a prepared powerful Wizard could propably deal with any single gribbly.
Disagree on the ambush though, being human-ish is a great weakness when you have someone who is both very stealthy and can use Black Wind to deal huge burst-damage if he doesn't have to split his actions into anything more than attacking for all its worth.
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We saw Ebenezar respond to an ambush of a pack of time travelling, magic-resistant cornerhounds in Peace Talks. We see Langtry react to the mistfiend attack in Turn Coat.And Joe is a peer of them both. Reaction times for senior mages can be spectacular, and they dont have the same limitations that Dresden does with regards to things like blasting rods and focus words.

Remember that almost every wizard we've seen in combat on the White Council side so far is a baby.
Dresden, Ramirez, Elaine?
None of them have seen their first half-century.
 
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uju32 said:
Naagloshii are goddamn bloody terrifying. Even though they abhor the idea of a fair fight, I have no doubt they'd eat a set of greater akuma like a Happy Meal. And I am serious when saying that I would bet on a elder naagloshii against most Yama Kings in a whiteroom fight outside Yomi Wan.
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This still reads like you overhyping naagloshii and severely nerfing Yama Kings. At the very least, cosmologically a Yama King would be equivalent to Erlking. If a naagloshii is a fallen semi-divine messenger, then Yama Kings are corrupted divinity. Nothing semi about it. And need I remind you that Mab considers Erlking a peer? A being with great power.
'Gosh, that's flattering,' I said. 'But you haven't told me a thing about why they might be interested in the Erlking.'

Mab pursed her lips. 'The being you ask me about is to goblins as I am to the Sidhe. A ruler. A master of their kind. Devious, cunning, strong, and swift. He wields dominion over the spirits of fallen hunters.'

I frowned. 'What kind of spirits?'

'The spirits of those who hunt,' Mab said. 'The energy of the hunt. Of excitement, hunger, bloodlust. Betimes, the Erlking will call those spirits into the form of the great black hounds, and ride the winds and forests as the Wild Hunt. He carries great power with him as he does. Power that calls to the remnants of hunters now passed on from mortal life.'

'You're talking about ghosts,' I said. 'The spirit of hunters.'

'Indeed,' Mab said. 'Shades that lay in quiet rest, beyond the beck of the mortal pale, will rise up to the night and the stars at the sound of his horn, and join the Hunt.'

'Powerful shades,' I said quietly.

'Specters most potent,' Mab said, nodding, her eyes bright and almost merry as they watched me.
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OK, happy-fun vampire diplomacy time.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 12, 2023 at 3:33 AM, finished with 144 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X]Plan Price to Pay
    -[X] Lady Eiko was not with the 'Will of Kakuri', she has to be the traitor... she has so. Make what promises you must to get her to betray her Lord
    --[X]All Things Betray + Naked Wicked Souls + Empathy or Etiquette Excellency
    --[X]Rendered Villain Dispersal when travelling; let someone else drive
    --[X]<All> Relocate to Chez Carpenter to borrow armor
    --[X]<Cyberdevils> Check in on akuma presence at Jaslin Hotel, with emphasis on Eiko
    --[X]<Clippy> Send messages to Alex,Izzy, Bella and Rosie to stay home from school today
    --[X]<Michael> Call St Mary's/Father Forthill for holy water + holy oil to the Carpenter home
    --[X]<Lydia> Call to check on Cauldron and advise they stay behind thresholds today if they can manage it
    --[X]<Molly>Tell Jack to get himself somewhere bright and you'll handle it
    --[X]<Molly>Call Lan He and tell him and the other two shen to move their people ASAP
    --[X]<Molly>Call Gard to see if you can negotiate some aid at short notice for cash or favors. Up to $100,000 budget
    --[X]<Harry>Call Thomas to meet at the Carpenter household
    -[X]STUNT: You're the last to emerge from Lydia's Cayenne SUV, waiting until the very last moment to slide out of the can of bleach in the cupholder. As you take a moment to orient yourself in the early morning twilight, Lydia is feeding the parking meter, then stepping past Brother Devsimar to leave it clearly visible on the inside of her windshield. Your father gestures with his chin "Jaslin is five minutes that way." Silently, you begin to walk. They follow.
    [X] Head right to the steel mill, maybe you can beat them there
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uju32 said:
Dresden Files mages can kill Dragons, set off volcanoes and earthquakes, deorbit satellites, raise undead armies, craft golems, run divinity ascension rituals, murder entire bloodlines, bodyjump, and pact with intellectus-providing spirits. Some of them even have horizon realms in the NeverNever; the Gatekeeper's is explicitly past the moon iirc.

They're full on reality benders in all the ways that matter.
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WoD sorcerers can do everything on that list. "Can, theoretically, do the same as X" does not make someone X or equivalent to X.

/broadly uninterested in the debate, but my eye stumbled upon this passage
 
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Arc 6 Post 19: Battle's Edge
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    • Battle's Edge ​

    3nd of October 2006 A.D.

    "Get some place bright and stay there," you tell Jack, wishing that you could add something else, a reassurance that you would get his friends back, that it would all be alright, but you cannot guarantee that.

    Grief did not used to do this to me, some distant part of you notes as plans whirl though your head. Call Father Forthil see about holy water and oil, check. Call Rosie Alec, Izzy and Bela to make sure they stay safe behind thresholds tomorrow even if they have to call in sick from school. It takes a moment to impress the gravity of the situation upon a sleepy Izzy for whom the supernatural only goes so far as you floating like Superman and talking about wild things, but as for Bela...

    "It's akuma, demon-bound Jade Court, yes Bela I know they are trespassing... probably there is no time to address the White King and have no reason to trust him nor does he have any reason to trust us. We are dealing with this tonight.... "

    "Can I come with?" she sounds so chipper, in contrast to Jack's desperation and whatever is happening to the others you almost want to scream at her. No, you remind yourself. She wants to help, someday in the not too distant future Bela might be in the car racing down the streets of Chicago rather than hunkering down for the storm.

    "Not now, your uncle would have words with me if I got you out of bed and into a sword-fight with a millennia year old horror."

    "Psh, bed what what do you think I am some kind of lame little kid?" I'm no my way to a party at..."

    "Get behind a threshold, behind wards, now." The words snap out almost unbidden and yet like the most natural thing in the world. "Please," you soften your tone. "I've already lost someone tonight, I don't want it to happen again."

    "OK, OK, I'll go pester uncle Leinth," the vampire on the other end sighs dramatically, but you can hear the car she is in turn and accelerate in the background, good enough.

    The members of Cauldron offer a very welcome contrast, they had all known of the danger already, this was just raising the alert from yellow to red as it were. Anna was all too used to weathering perils like this. Maybe I should ask them to go over to Helen's... You shake off the though. Bane might be able to see off any number of lesser Akuma, if they were stupid about it, but not such as Kakuri's Will, not to mention that all the members of the Order would have to drive there with no protection save the eyes of passersby.

    So you move on, hand placed absently against the side of the car to steady yourself before Lydia's driver takes the sharp turn down Logan Boulevard., I did not even ask his name, another tinny drop to guilt to add for this night.

    "Father Forthil please Clippy," you continue, sounding strangely calm to your own years, like all this is some kind of complicated math problem that your emotions are locked far far away from.

    "Are you doing this Usum?" you ask as the phone rings once, twice.

    "No Dark Majesty, though I must say it is quite impressive to behold," one of those rare times when the demon's praise does not leave you feeling conflicted. Sharpness of mind as much as of the sword is something you will need tonight.

    Reminded of another source of help that is open to all you send a prayer heavenward: Holy Ghost who grants wisdom and words of fire to move the hearts of men please let me find the right ones, I do not want to spill more blood than I must this night and we will need all the help we can get. No light descends you, no sudden insight, but you are content in having asked.

    To father Forthil Clippy just shoots off a text, he us used enough to answering calls from dad or others fighting the good fight, in search of holy water, holy oils and the like. So you can rest at last in the bleach, made perhaps unholy in some esoteric manner by your very presence as the car continues to race through the half deserted streets, the speed limit more of a speed guide, often outpaced.

    You regain 1 Essence -> now at 7/12

    To her credit mom is not the least phased when the car, though she is less sanguine when a pair of articulated mannequins clamber out of the trunk trunk as though pulled along by unseen hands, turning eyeless faces to the front door. Lydia had been experimenting. Perhaps it is for the best that your mother does not know with what. Wood is matter once alive that is now dead, enough affinity for the power and authority of the grave to catch.

    "Can I just practice with these for a bit? I've never used them in a fight?" your friend asks, a little awkwardly.

    Dad graciously agrees, giving her the key to the garage. Brother Divsima offers to go with, waving off the offer of borrowed armor with a smile. "Loose robes can hide many things that might seem odd to wear."

    One more call to make... Centering yourself you call Sigrun Gard, once-and-eternally one of Odin's valkyries through the changing of the world. Power tingles on your lips like ice crystals.

    Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 6/12

    "The kind of money you are talking about is enough to get you some company in the battle to come. My sister Frida or ten einherjar, but if you want more than that it's going to have to be paid in kind, aid in battle, or wisdom outside of it."

    "Can Frida ward against mortals walking in on the fight?"

    She considers the answer for a moment, honesty warning against the instinct to boast so useful in mercenaries since the dawn of time, or as they say in this age marketing. "Not as well as I can but she knows the runes."

    The conversation gets into the brass tacks of acquiring the services of Monoc Security. Perhaps another time you might have found the cool efficiency with which Gard names her price off putting, but tonight you cannot fault her cold blood not if the swords of her fellows should prove just as cold.

    Lydia walks in halfway through the talks, puppets in tow and once she hears what this is all about she quickly pledges her support, from the sudden pause and frown there in the middle you would guess against at least some of Arwan's advice. As she does so Harry shifts uneasily, on the verge of speaking up or even rising to his feet. One might mistake it for unease at the thought of teenagers signing up as 'private military contractors', but there's more to it than that you'd wager. He wants to make the same offer, but he can't bring himself to to do it.

    "It's OK," you mouth, looking over at him, very glad that mom had gone to check in on Hank. She would probably have some choice things to say about mercenary work. On the other hand who better to see you victorious than than the Odin himself at your side, whom men prayed to for battle-cunning, whose spear had slain monsters and giants uncounted.

    What bargain do you strike with Monoc Securities?
    Plan Voting

    Offer:

    [] Money 2 Point (1 Base +1 From Legenday Social Roll Success)

    [] Aid Monoc Security in one battle of their choice 3 Points (Can be taken up to three times)

    [] Lydia aids Monoc Security in one battle of their choice 2 points (Can be taken twice)

    [] Share your wisdom regarding
    -[] The binding of spirits 1 point
    -[] The flame that burns upon your blade 3 points
    -[] Where where other shards alike to the one you bear might be found 10 points (They have leads they want you to look at and help unravel)

    [] Free passage into your Domain for those who serve the One-Eye 3 points (You have a feeling this does not just mean the Last Station)

    [] Your skillful craft in:
    -[] Forging baneful weapons for his einherjar 1 point
    -[] Crafting vehicles worthy to carry them in battle in this age of iron and flame 2 points

    Receive:

    [] The aid of one of Odin's valkyries, the Choosers of the Slain who have walked battlefields uncounted (Can be chosen up to seven times)
    -[] A warrior 1 Point
    -[] A rune-caster 2 points
    -[] Gard herself 3 points

    [] Einherjar: These warriors have died once, a glorious death with drew the eye of the Wanderer they wander the world still honing their skills until Ragnarök comes (Can be taken up to 7 times)
    -[] Frontline squad 1 point ( 5 Riflemen)
    -[] Heavy squad 1 point (1 Heavy Machine Gunner and 1 Mortal Team)

    [] Donar Vadderung, Head of Monoc Securities. The Father of Hosts is not what he once was, but when the Horn calls and the dread eye flashes on the eve of battle foes yet quake, be they living man, deathless horror or spirit of ages past 12 Points

    OOC: Molly does not know the full AP cost of the options because she has never tried to make magi-tech tanks or baleful weapons for the hosts of Odin before, but as a general rule the aid in battle ones are less costly in terms of time since Gard said they can provide fast transportation, magical or mundane as necessary
     
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    • Oooooh. That's a very interesting set of trade offers. 🤔 If we pick both Molly+Lydia help in battle, can we count on that being in the same battle?
     
    Exmorri said:
    Oooooh. That's a very interesting set of trade offers. 🤔 If we pick both Molly+Lydia help in battle, can we count on that being in the same battle?
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    Not at a base, their skills are different so they might be needed for different battles, but you can ask for that at the cost of 1 point. for every battle you want to be joined, so you can take
    • One fight each (Together) which earns you 3+2-1 = 4 points
    • Two fights each (Together) which earns 6+4-2 = 8 points
     
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