Or we go really high tech and stick a cyber demon in it.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- Germany
We are unfortunatly not Pentex.
Formor really work best when you can train hundreds of people as special forces, Formorize them and then use the resulting Formor in a manner most fitting to their new advantages by splitting them into teams where they can cover each others weaknesses and support their strenghts.
Only difference is that our Formor are 100% sure to make it through the process successfully, rather than reject the Bane or die during transformation.
So less waste.
- Location
- Germany
Then we get into the issues that it has to be legal to carry, Harry has to accept that a Cyberdevil willing to spy for us is in an object he always carries with him and anti-magic effects can break his gun (also some people can notice the gun better when there's a spirit inside).
Is it purely a time thing, or does level of intake matter?
I ask because it's been established that white vamps can lay down absurd reserves of energy that don't seem to go bad in anything like a reasonable period of time.
Since the charm feeds hundreds, could we allow some vamps to get the equivalent of tens to hundreds of human lives by having them eat a stupid number of worms? Which they could then subsist on for a longer time period or use to do run in high performance mode for us.
Molly is not sure of the details to that level since she does not have the charm yet, you would have to test them
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
And that we can untransform the not useful ones (with inner demons unchained anyway) and that if they have any sort of crippling problems that would normally make them not useful MIS deals with it.
And of course the huge advantage of obscene leadership checks to lead them effectively.
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Well, we are an exalt. Challenging is about to be expected. Guns are almost certainly mechanics, so within our specialty. If I understand specialties right, they give "2 success when rolling 10s" (Vampire, 20th anniversary edition, page 96 "Whenever a player makes a die roll involving an activity in which her character has specialized, she may count any die that comes up "10" as two successes instead of just one."). Gunsmithing should be difficulty 7 normally, so with CCC and BSM, that's DC3. Int + craft is 7 dice. Twice that with Excellency, 16 with WHWH, and 18 with stunt. That's 19.8 successes on average, just shy of 20, and well within 15+ successes. I think we could probably do something quite good there.
If we buy Enhance ability: craft, that's +2 more dice, and we comfortably clear 20+ successes.
Untransforming them causes aggravated damage. Which, as mortals, they don't heal from.
- Location
- Germany
There is no difference between aggravated and lethal for mortals.
Depending on what the Storyteller says things might not heal properly, but they do heal.
Just like burns and claw-wounds do IRL.
Aggravated is mostly a mechanical difference that's relevant for supernatural healing, not some fundamental difference to the injury itself.
Also we can reduce the damage to nothing by taking some time and spending a lot of Essence.
From my understanding of mortal physiology, stuff like being set on fire doesn't actually properly heal with fully restored functionality. You get what's essentially crippling damage (scar tissue, deadened nerves, etc).
How?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
The Infernal may reclaim her gift of inner darkness, making the bakemono human again, but this inflicts a number of levels of aggravated damage equal to (7 - the Essence the Exalt opts to spend undoing her curse).
I actually had read this as damage to the infernal, but now I remember that the when the other shoe drops it never hits the infernal. Very useful for killing off any bakemono that try and get uppity.
Untransforming safely is expensive, but doable. We aren't going be untransforming anyone unless they complain fairly hard. We aren't going to do it just for the chance of a reroll.
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- Location
- Germany
Depends on how bad you got burned, but okay, fire is bad.
You know what also always causes aggravated damage?
Claws from a vampire transformed with Protean, or from a Werewolf in Chrinos, or from a Wan Kuei with bone-grown weapons.
Pretty sure all those are not worse for a mortal than regular claw/bite/blade wounds?
Fictionfan was faster in answering.
- Location
- Georgia
Yeah, I don't think any of them is ready to face their Shadow. Though, it's reversible and could be quite educational.
Wan Kuei can do aggro by just spending 2 demon chi to grow shark-y maw. I think aggro effects on mortals depend on edition?
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I somehow misread it as exalt's essence rating, rather than how much we spend. Yeah, in that case this does work in principle as a booster for mortals. And we can probably even work out how to make mostly benign transformations. I'll put this down for later use. Probably after we get our kingdom.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I want to get it before the kingdom. Mostly because with it loyal humans from our kingdom are just as useful as demons which saves us a kingdom point. We can have a 5 fold court of different types of humans.
[X] Yzarc
[X] Uju32
[X] Say goodbye
-[X] Offer training and equipment instead
-[X] STUNT: "Believe me. I know the feeling. I really do. I grew up with it, even. I won't provide a magical immediate solution right now, not when you are so angry and not thinking clearly. What I will provide, however, are the means. I'll talk to some people, arrange training in how to fight, provide equipment if you want it. And if, by Christmas, you still want to keep fighting, we'll discuss the topic again. I might have something by that time".
They collectively also occupy the closest aspects of the nevernever to the mortal world. Not all of the closest elements, but most of it across most of the planet. This is the reason the white council, who otherwise would take issue with a lot of what they do, was so desperate to keep on their good side. As a global organization that can't use mundane transit very well they had no option but to go through Winter territory on a regular basis to move around.
There's also the Unseelie Accords; which are essentially the final word on modern supernatural international politics. some powers aren't part of it, but they tend to be very isolationist or restricted from joining for one reason or another. The knights of the cross, for example, wouldn't sign because the Denarians did.
The vast majority of everyone uses rules Winter set and underwrites with its influence to govern how they interact with each other on the personal and state level.
It's like the UN if the UN had actual teeth.
Mab isn't the secret boss in charge of everything, and you don't have to deal with her. That said, underestimating Winter's influence and the position it holds is a bad idea.
You don't have to like them or her, but the fey aren't the red court. If you're on planet earth and dealing with a supernatural group more organized than your average book club then they're at least peripherally influential.
One thing she'll probably hold over our heads is becoming a signatory of the Accords, while we're on that topic. Note that Marcone getting to sign as a free holding lord was treated as synonymous with actually being acknowledged as some level of peer by the supernatural world as a whole by everyone aware of it. We would benefit from that, and she's probably going to make it a bitch and a half to get.
[X] Uju32
[X] Say goodbye
-[X] Offer training and equipment instead
-[X] STUNT: "Believe me. I know the feeling. I really do. I grew up with it, even. I won't provide a magical immediate solution right now, not when you are so angry and not thinking clearly. What I will provide, however, are the means. I'll talk to some people, arrange training in how to fight, provide equipment if you want it. And if, by Christmas, you still want to keep fighting, we'll discuss the topic again. I might have something by that time".
Not for nothing here but it's canon that the fey courts flip influence on sides of the planet with the seasons, so they are a full global power.
They collectively also occupy the closest aspects of the nevernever to the mortal world. Not all of the closest elements, but most of it across most of the planet. This is the reason the white council, who otherwise would take issue with a lot of what they do, was so desperate to keep on their good side. As a global organization that can't use mundane transit very well they had no option but to go through Winter territory on a regular basis to move around.
There's also the Unseelie Accords; which are essentially the final word on modern supernatural international politics. some powers aren't part of it, but they tend to be very isolationist or restricted from joining for one reason or another. The knights of the cross, for example, wouldn't sign because the Denarians did.
The vast majority of everyone uses rules Winter set and underwrites with its influence to govern how they interact with each other on the personal and state level.
It's like the UN if the UN had actual teeth.
Mab isn't the secret boss in charge of everything, and you don't have to deal with her. That said, underestimating Winter's influence and the position it holds is a bad idea.
You don't have to like them or her, but the fey aren't the red court. If you're on planet earth and dealing with a supernatural group more organized than your average book club then they're at least peripherally influential.
One thing she'll probably hold over our heads is becoming a signatory of the Accords, while we're on that topic. Note that Marcone getting to sign as a free holding lord was treated as synonymous with actually being acknowledged as some level of peer by the supernatural world as a whole by everyone aware of it. We would benefit from that, and she's probably going to make it a bitch and a half to get.
For this case it doesn't matter because we can spend essence to mitigate, but wouldn't the Agg-lethal distinction matter if we were trying to heal them? Sure the difference doesn't matter to mortals at large, but most of the time we're going to actually deal with it we'll want to either apply or prevent supernatural healing to problem.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We get that by default from all COD. We don't really have a use for being a free holding lord. Our authority is instantly recognized without a piece of paper.
Before we even think of signing, we'll need to investigate them in detail, and probably use a Crown to find the hidden motivations / intended backdoors / loopholes in them. We would definitely want to check what benefits they provide, if any.
Eh, I am rather for of magic mushrooms. They add variety. And it's not like it's mass-producible anyway. We can't make large (as in hundreds of millions) people into bakemono with it or any other charm.
We get a boost when interacting directly with them, that isn't the same thing as this sort of recognition. We're in a prime example of a situation in which just being scary to CoDs doesn't stop them from screwing with you. Granted we have no idea if these Akuma are signatories, but if we aren't pretty much everybody can treat us the same way.
Being a signatory makes you a nation state with rights, which extend to your subordinates/fellows, not being a signatory is the same as being an outlaw.
Edit:
Yeah. Never sign anything blindly, especially when it involves the fey at any level. I just think it'll probably end up being an attractive offer, because if it was full of hooks it wouldn't have spread as far as it has.
The fey are good, but they aren't "Vassalize most of the planet by a mix of force and trickery" good.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well Maggot pits can. Make multiple of them and you can throw people in assembly lines.
But I don't think that we really need to make more than a few dozen a week. Just transform those who are already skilled once we have a large pool to draw from.
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JayTar
Idea briefcase
So, why do all the plans have Maggot Mana Plague?
Given the ethical problems with using it (even a single meal comes with subtle mind control, long term use comes with not so subtle mind control) it doesn't really seem worth the 8 exp. Mind control is a bit of a thing in character yes?
And it seems like the issues with feeding our minion's supernatural hungers are stable? MiS lets them feed with perfect control and not cause long term damage. Given time we can probably do research or set up programs to make feeding easier too. All sorts of ideas have been discussed.
But with things as they are Maggot Mana Plague really doesn't seem like a charm we want. And having 8 exp to put somewhere else is not insignificant.
Given the ethical problems with using it (even a single meal comes with subtle mind control, long term use comes with not so subtle mind control) it doesn't really seem worth the 8 exp. Mind control is a bit of a thing in character yes?
And it seems like the issues with feeding our minion's supernatural hungers are stable? MiS lets them feed with perfect control and not cause long term damage. Given time we can probably do research or set up programs to make feeding easier too. All sorts of ideas have been discussed.
But with things as they are Maggot Mana Plague really doesn't seem like a charm we want. And having 8 exp to put somewhere else is not insignificant.
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To be fair, the long term stuff can be managed and as long as we're clear about what the side effects are the ethical problems can be managed. Informed consent and a calendar basically resolves all of them.
I think it's a bad pick because we can manage without it, but a significant number of people believe that it being universal dog chow for supernaturals is worth the scaling issues and mild risk of mutating into a maggot-person.
I'd rather trade it and one of the various one dots for BME, but I doubt anyone would vote for that sort of plan.
Edit: fixed a couple errors.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I can see it from a watsonian basis depending on how you look at it. She wants her followers to be provided for and her exaltation provides.
Like, here's a bit of old scorpionite musing on Infernal exalts and what acquiring charms for them looks like watsonianally I'm fond of(A Green Sun Illuminates The Void, Thread III (Fate Rending Narrative) To threadmark)
You could also view Molly's exaltation as Grail Kun giving people knives, or the Hogyoku ala butterfly aizen's transformations.
Surprised no one is suggesting a perfect defense.
JayTar
Idea briefcase
I think people are glossing over just the issues of just the -1 difficulty reduction from the first meal. This isn't just them feeling a bit grateful. This is permanent, if subtle, mind control. It doesn't matter if we murder their family. They will always be a little easier for us to convince then they would otherwise be. "But it also makes them vaguely loyal toward their Infernal benefactor"
The fact that what we are offering is literally food for the starving, and how downtrodden the beneficiaries are, makes any notion of informed consent suspect.
I, personally, will vote for any plan that does not include Maggot Mana Plague. At best it is a waste of exp. At worst it is Molly deciding that "Hey maybe just a little mind control is okay."
Maggot Mana Plague is the easy way out. It solves our problems. But at the cost of our morals. Even offered with the best of intentions it is still a poisoned fruit.
Oh I'm not saying that it couldn't be justified in character. I'm saying that I don't want this to be the route walked in character. Because even walked with the best of intentions it has bad implications.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
@DragonParadox The alchemy description says 'mind and spirit'. If we got enough dots, could we 'give' or 'awaken' magical ability in those close to us?