Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

How does that interact with powers like the Wan Kuei's No Mind or a Vampire's Soul Mask?

Roll-off, or does the power do what it says against any aura-perception?

The basic function of 'is this a creature of darkness' works all the time, otherwise roll off

@DragonParadox and how does it compare to Wizard Sight? Is there any reason to get both or does one make the other redundant?

I mean, you made up the mechanics for the Sight here so we have no clue how that works beyond guessing.

Helscry gives information that is easier to interpret and it costs less to invoke. With the Sight you need a point of Willpower to invoke it and then IPP to make sure looking at the wrong thing will not damage your mind.
 
Helscry gives information that is easier to interpret and it costs less to invoke. With the Sight you need a point of Willpower to invoke it and then IPP to make sure looking at the wrong thing will not damage your mind.
What about targets? You said Hellscry only works on Creatures of Darkness? And Sight has a lie detector feature but lie detection is a separate charm from HC?
 
What about targets? You said Hellscry only works on Creatures of Darkness? And Sight has a lie detector feature but lie detection is a separate charm from HC?
Going by fluff, hellscry chakra seems worse than Essence Dissecting Stare:

essenCe-disseCting stare (•••)
The Infernal's stare rips away the pretenses of pro-
saic reality, allowing her to see through to the truth of the cosmos.
System: Roll Perception + Occult against difficulty 7. Success allows the character to see the aura of power emanating from Dragon Nests. These appear as rising
auras of Essence, visible from up to (Essence rating) miles away. Spending 1 Willpower permits the Infernal to attune her senses to the vibrations of another realm of existence for a scene, seeing through the Gauntlet or Shroud and into the Penumbra or Shadowlands, or to behold reality's chimerical aspect.
 
Seeing into other worlds from Changeling, Werewolf or Wraith is a totally different thing from the effects of Hellscry-Chakra.
Both nice.
That's actually a question. @DragonParadox how does "seeing through the Gauntlet or Shroud and into the Penumbra or Shadowlands, or to behold reality's chimerical aspect" work in Dresdenverse? NeverNever is a separate realm, that connects to, but doesn't overlap mundane reality, from my understanding. What would this actually do? I am guessing some sort of veil piercing, but what else?
 
I'm only one voice in the crowd, but when it comes time to spend XP, I'm not voting for any plan that doesn't include Rendered Villain Dispersal and Windborn Stride. These two are essential going forward, IMO, whereas some of what ya'll are proposing seem to be very niche or not immediately relevant.
 
Seeing into other worlds from Changeling, Werewolf or Wraith is a totally different thing from the effects of Hellscry-Chakra.
Both nice.
I'd hope we could get slightly more than leyline energy when looking at the truth of the cosmos. The fluff sounds a lot like wizard sight, but the system text is underwhelming save for the ability to look at the nevernever without actually going into it.

Hellscry being locked to CoDs for all functions makes it less worthwhile to me. Sure we interact with lots of CoDs, but it seems like the sort of thing you get to rely on and then trip over when dealing with someone who doesn't register on it.
 
That's actually a question. @DragonParadox how does "seeing through the Gauntlet or Shroud and into the Penumbra or Shadowlands, or to behold reality's chimerical aspect" work in Dresdenverse? NeverNever is a separate realm, that connects to, but doesn't overlap mundane reality, from my understanding. What would this actually do? I am guessing some sort of veil piercing, but what else?

There does seem to be something like the Shadowlands overlapping reality where ghosts live we saw when Harry was one.
 
Not everyone's. One person at a time only.
The mechanic Holden is using, and referring to, is from V20.
Thats where you do things like walk into a bar and Sherlock scan a room for auras with a given characteristic.
Like vampiric auras. Or anxious auras.

Examining a person in real time is one v one yes.
It says if you wish to establish this with aura colors, not 'this is as broad as auspex and all its colors apply'. So for the beings you can see those are the colors, at least that is how I am reading it.
*checks*
The Solars get Foe-Scenting Method. Abyssals get Void Stares Back.
Both appear to be substantially the same charm as Hellscry Chakra, aside from the following
-Last all day instead of a scene for Infernals
-Automatically ping off all supernaturals, versus just CoDs for Infernals
-Examining a person's Essence is a DC8 Perception + Occult roll, vs DC6 for Infernals.

SOLAR Foe Scenting Method said:
Foe-Scenting Method (•••••)
The Solar's senses, attuned to darkness, immedi-
ately pick out the supernatural.

System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence. For the rest
of the next 24 hours, the Solar becomes aware when
she stands in the presence of any supernatural being,

though she doesn't inherently know what sort of su-
pernatural being any given individual may be. Imbued
hunters don't register as supernatural beings.

Supernal Effect: By concentrating on an individ-
ual the Solar believes to be a supernatural entity, she
may scrutinize that creature's Essence for clues to its
nature. Roll Perception + Occult against difficulty 8.
Success causes the Solar to receive compelling clues.

For example: "His aura swirls with arcane geometry
in rigid and regimented patterns." Or: "A great hulk-
ing wolf-shadow looms above her." If the Solar has
encountered and scrutinized this sort of supernatural
being in the past, then she can identify them as such.
"He's a technomancer." "She's a werewolf."
ABYSSAL Void Stares Back said:
Void Stares Back (•••••)
The Abyssal's senses, attuned to darkness, imme-
diately pick out the supernatural.

System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence. For the rest
of the next 24 hours, the Abyssal becomes aware when
she stands in the presence of any supernatural being,

though she doesn't inherently know what sort of su-
pernatural being any given individual may be. Imbued
hunters don't register as supernatural beings.

Apocalyptic Effect: By concentrating on an indi-
vidual the Abyssal believes to be a supernatural entity,
she may scrutinize that creature's Essence for clues to
its nature. Roll Perception + Occult against difficulty
8. Success causes the Abyssal to receive compelling
clues.
For example: "His aura swirls with arcane geom-
etry in rigid and regimented patterns." Or: "A great
hulking wolf-shadow looms above her." If the Abyssal
has encountered and scrutinized this sort of supernat-
ural being in the past, then she can identify them as
such. "He's a technomancer." "She's a werewolf."
INFERNAL Hellscy Chakra said:
Hellscry Chakkra (••)
Opening her inner eye and attuning it to spiritu-
al desolation, the Infernal gains the ability to detect
potential servants or rivals, and to weigh the souls of
those she meets.

System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence. For the rest
of the scene, the Infernal becomes aware when she
stands in the presence of any creature of darkness,
though she doesn't inherently know what sort of su-
pernatural being any given individual may be.
Further-
more, by concentrating on a specific individual for a
few moments and making a successful Perception +
Occult roll against difficulty 6, she can behold the sub-
tleties of their anima and learn their current emotional
state, as well as some clues about their nature
. If you
wish to embellish this with aura colors and the like, a
chart can be found on page 136 of V20.

I had to go back and check the other Solaroids to be sure I wasnt misremembering.
It seems to me that interpreting it as applying to CoDs only is be introducing a hole in the skillset that doesnt appear to be in the other Solaroid charmsets.

But thats still your call.
That makes Hellscry Chakra very useful long-term, but why now? The only person we've interacted with who even knows Nemesis exists at this point in the timeline is Mab. Spending xp to counter a threat we have no way to even know about yet seems a bit premature.
IC?
We've met and killed Outsiders. Molly probably saw the Nemesis-infected Leanansidhe in Arctis Tor's heartspring, and if we didnt, Usum did, since he was buried in the same garden when Lea was brought in.

Also, OOC, Mab's daughter, the Winter Lady, is infected by Nemesis.
 
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I'd hope we could get slightly more than leyline energy when looking at the truth of the cosmos. The fluff sounds a lot like wizard sight, but the system text is underwhelming save for the ability to look at the nevernever without actually going into it.

Hellscry being locked to CoDs for all functions makes it less worthwhile to me. Sure we interact with lots of CoDs, but it seems like the sort of thing you get to rely on and then trip over when dealing with someone who doesn't register on it.
We xan track naagloshii and presably other similarly powerful beings with it.
I'm only one voice in the crowd, but when it comes time to spend XP, I'm not voting for any plan that doesn't include Rendered Villain Dispersal and Windborn Stride. These two are essential going forward, IMO, whereas some of what ya'll are proposing seem to be very niche or not immediately relevant.
We won't get a chance to use rvd next month. Too much stuff to do. There's simply a matter of prioritization. Even with all its limitations, Hellscry Chakra is too useful to not take. We have to take Murder is Meat in case we need to fight Jade Court vampires. We need Maggot Mana Plague for minion management.

We could in principle drop etiquette and empathy 5, as we are unlikely to be facing the top of the top tiers. This could get us windborn stride.
 
*checks*
The Solars get Foe-Scenting Method. Abyssals get Void Stares Back.
Both appear to be substantially the same charm as Hellscry Chakra, aside from the following
-Last all day instead of a scene for Infernals
-Automatically ping off all supernaturals, versus just CoDs for Infernals
-Examining a person's Essence is a DC8 Perception + Occult roll, vs DC6 for Infernals.

There's a general theme of Infernal charms being that only work on or turn people into CoD that have solar versions without the limitations.

Generally, most solar charms are better than infernal charms, but some infernal charms are really good.
 
What about targets? You said Hellscry only works on Creatures of Darkness? And Sight has a lie detector feature but lie detection is a separate charm from HC?

Both can work as lie detectors, but neither of them are perfect

That's actually a question. @DragonParadox how does "seeing through the Gauntlet or Shroud and into the Penumbra or Shadowlands, or to behold reality's chimerical aspect" work in Dresdenverse? NeverNever is a separate realm, that connects to, but doesn't overlap mundane reality, from my understanding. What would this actually do? I am guessing some sort of veil piercing, but what else?

There are parts of the Nevernever which are closer to material reality and act like the WoD shadow-lands

The mechanic Holden is using, and referring to, is from V20.
Thats where you do things like walk into a bar and Sherlock scan a room for auras with a given characteristic.
Like vampiric auras. Or anxious auras.

Examining a person in real time is one v one yes.

*checks*
The Solars get Foe-Scenting Method. Abyssals get Void Stares Back.
Both appear to be substantially the same charm as Hellscry Chakra, aside from the following
-Last all day instead of a scene for Infernals
-Automatically ping off all supernaturals, versus just CoDs for Infernals
-Examining a person's Essence is a DC8 Perception + Occult roll, vs DC6 for Infernals.

All of those say supernatural being, Helscry is the only one that says Creature of Darkness, I agree it makes it weaker, but the choice seems deliberate on the part of the author.
 
I had to go back and check the other Solaroids to be sure I wasnt misremembering.
It seems to me that interpreting it as applying to CoDs only is be introducing a hole in the skillset that doesnt appear to be in the other Solaroid charmsets.
In fairness those two charms both have the more specific functions locked behind their equivalents of signature charm selections.
 
We won't get a chance to use rvd next month. Too much stuff to do. There's simply a matter of prioritization. Even with all its limitations, Hellscry Chakra is too useful to not take. We have to take Murder is Meat in case we need to fight Jade Court vampires. We need Maggot Mana Plague for minion management.
I disagree. I expect we're much more likely to use RVD multiple times next month, maybe even multiple times per week, than we are to use MiM even once (though I do think we should gain MiM, too).

RVD is too close to being effectively global range teleportation to put off taking it any longer. Never mind the combat applications, the movement options are too great to ignore. Also, didn't we get confirmation from @DragonParadox that we would gain a great deal of awareness related to any body of water we're currently dispersed within? As in, we would see as if we were Lake Michigan, the Atlantic Ocean, etc?
 
I disagree. I expect we're much more likely to use RVD multiple times next month, maybe even multiple times per week, than we are to use MiM even once (though I do think we should gain MiM, too).

RVD is too close to being effectively global range teleportation to put off taking it any longer. Never mind the combat applications, the movement options are too great to ignore. Also, didn't we get confirmation from @DragonParadox that we would gain a great deal of awareness related to any body of water we're currently dispersed within? As in, we would see as if we were Lake Michigan, the Atlantic Ocean, etc?
In the stragtegic sense it's totally super great. I agree. We aren't operating strategically yet. We are barely keeping our head above water in regards to our obligations. Next month we already have the following AP locked in:
School
Last Station
Jade Court
Naagloshii (because no, we can't just leave it alone, too dangerous)
Diamond making (might be able to abstract it with a purchase of resources background)

We have 6 AP total. Even leaving aside money making (which we need to keep our minions afloat), we need to keep dealing with Rosie, and we most likely need to deal with Order of Cauldron - with Jade Court in town, they rather need protection. And this is assuming we don't work with Harry to learn more paths, we don't take magical martial arts lessons, we don't deal with our family, we don't spend AP on either preparing for Mab (I rather advice we do spend an AP on that), we don't deal with the spiritualist guy (I forget the name), etc.

We are completely booked.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 14, 2023 at 2:50 AM, finished with 64 posts and 10 votes.

  • [X] Warn the Order of the Cauldron
    -[X]STUNT: In reply, you hand the letter over to Lydia. "His boss wants a meeting" you say, forcing a lightness into your voice that you dont really feel. With an effort, you stop and take Olivia's hand, squeezing it comfortably. "You did fine. " You look over to Lydia, who has just finished reading the letter, and hands it back to you, one eyebrow raised. "The soul of courtesy, that one." You weigh the letter in your hand for a moment, then fumble it into your purse, drawing Clippy out instead. "I think" you say deliberately "the Order should stay out of Chinatown, and behind thresholds at night for the next week or so." You look at your phone. "Call Anna."
    [X] Plan: I have a call list
    -[X] Warn the Order of the Cauldron
    --[X] Give a sanitized lecture "Jade Court, Yomi Wan and you" to the members, explaining as best you can how to avoid the dangers
    -[X] Talk to Lieutenant Murphy, supernatural killings are her department
    --[X] Introduce Lieutenant Murphy to the Order of Cauldron. They could use a police officer who is "in the know" and can be trusted, and she should know the community she's protecting, and could probably use some of their talents
    --[X] Ask for access to the bodies of those murdered if possible
    -[X] Call Dresden and warn him of yet another evil force in his city.
    --[X] Suggest starting a convention or something to lighten the mood
    -[X] See if Thomas heard anything about Akuma from his contacts
    [X] Talk to Lieutenant Murphy, supernatural killings are her department
    -[x] Olivia should be able to warn the order.
    [X] Warn the Order of the Cauldron and SI
    -[X]Warn SI and involve SI in Order's protection
    -[X] Stunt: In reply, you hand the letter over to Lydia. "His boss wants a meeting" you say, forcing a lightness into your voice that you dont really feel. With an effort, you stop and take Olivia's hand, squeezing it comfortably. "You did fine. " You look over to Lydia, who has just finished reading the letter, and hands it back to you, one eyebrow raised. "The soul of courtesy, that one." You move to the entrance of the graveyard, waving to Detective Stallings: "Detective, I think there's something you and your department need to be aware of. There's a group of people in danger. Please listen while I warn them, and we'll coordinate afterwards". You weigh the letter in your hand for a moment, then fumble it into your purse, drawing Clippy out instead. "I think" you say deliberately "the Order should stay out of Chinatown, and behind thresholds at night for the next week or so." You look at your phone. "Call Anna."
 
Arc 5 Post 39: Behind the Veil
Behind the Veil

30th of September 2006 A.D.

In reply, you hand the letter over to Lydia. "His boss wants a meeting" you say, forcing a lightness into your voice that you don't really feel. With an effort, you stop and take Olivia's hand, squeezing it comfortably. "You did fine. " You look over to Lydia, who has just finished reading the letter, and hands it back to you, one eyebrow raised. "The soul of courtesy, that one."

You weigh the letter in your hand for a moment, then fumble it into your purse, drawing Clippy out instead. "I think" you say deliberately "the Order should stay out of Chinatown, and behind thresholds at night for the next week or so." You look at your phone. "Call Anna."

In spite of it being well past midnight and obviously being woken up by the call Anna Ash is obviously used to this sort of call. when she hears about the deaths in Chinatown she goes quiet. "I should have known, should have guessed something had happened..." she whispers into the phone, maybe without meaning to. After she composes herself she explains that en elderly herbalist and friend of the Order of the Cauldron named John Li had passed away last week, seeming to fade suddenly from exhaustion to coma to death. Anna knows enough about the hungry dead to recognize the mark of an elder feeding now that she knows such a one might be in the city, though her knowlege of the Jade Court does not extend to akuma or the horrors of Yomi Wan.

"Of course the damned can damn themselves even more, that's just how the world wonks isn't it?" the older woman says bitterly. "Is Olivia with you, I know you had some kind of outdoor seance going on at Bachelor's Grove...?"

"She is." With that weight taken off her chest ou leave Anna to the task of alerting the rest of the Order to stay clear of Chinatown

Speaking of Olivia the more you speak the more her expression darkens, fear and embarrassment fleeing before a rising tide of anger, but this is not the weary anger, mixed with sorrow that you had heard in Anna's voice. "I'm sick of this! Hiding and hoping the monsters will take someone else instead of me, never knowing which of my friends are going to have a closed casket funeral because vampire ripped out their throat or a redcap slit their throat, not even knowing if their family knows. I hate it!" A tremble runs through her body so faint eyes less sharp than yours might have missed it. "I hate that I'm so good at hiding."

A ripple of sympathy passes through the crowd of dead which had so far been watching the whole conversation like a particularly fascinating play. This time Lydia is the one to move first, squeezing Olivia in an awkward side hug, but she does not seem comforted. "I hate that all I'm good at is hiding."

"We'll deal this," you say, trying to project as much confidence as you can. "Monsters aren't going to have their way in Chicago for long."

She swallows drily. "I know you will, that doesn't make me feel any less like crap. I still know more than ninety nine percent of everyone else. I could help, at least as much as those cops out there who don't have any gift to their name, but I'm not good with guns, my gran is probably better at killing than I am, at least she used to kill chickens for the pot. I hate them and I hate what they are doing, but you can't kill people with hate can you?"

Usum shifts in wordless approval, like the rasp of a serpent's coils moving against each other. "The dark within is mightier than men know. Under your hand such invocations would lack the ordinary perils and might be removed as shadows are banished in the light of flame." You hear of course what he does not say, to empower the shadow-self, opposite of reason subconscious passion and desire would be excruciatingly painful, but only for a few minutes. Would I have taken that deal three months ago if all I had otherwise was the ability to veil? Honesty compels you do to admit you would have. Would Olivia...? The shadows, twist along the planes of her face and moonlight shines silver upon angry tears. She would try it without even blinking and she would not be the only one. How many people in the know about the supernatural feel helpless, angry, like they don't have the means to me more than prey? You could change that, you could help them find that strength within themselves.

You open your mouth to...

[] Make the offer (Must take Inner Devils Unchained Cost 12 XP)

[] Say goodbye




Arc Five Complete

Triumphs
  1. Impressed agents of the Library of Congress and gained a contact with them 2 XP
  2. Created a steady revenue stream in the form of Chicago Synthetics 2 XP
  3. Convinced Leech to be more careful about hacking by giving her a demon companion 1 XP
  4. Explained magic to your friends without them freaking out 1XP
  5. Discovered hints on the nature of the universe 1XP (Because it was mostly the Crown)
  6. Gained the respect of an elder of the White Court and the allegiance of one of the younger members 1XP
  7. Obtained insights into the methods of the White Court and gained leverage against one of their networks 2 XP
  8. Saved Agent Greene's life and gained her as a contact 1XP
  9. Uncovered Detective Greene's murderer/Warned Harry about the Skinwalker 1 XP
  10. Wrote the Big Book of Yomi Wan 1 XP
  11. Obtained insights into the strange name and its link to the Black Court 2 XP
  12. Expanded the Jade Dogs to include mortals and set down new rules to accommodate that 1XP
  13. Obtained new insights into the working of Dragon-Lines and the tech-bane. Ideas for more god crafting... 1 XP
  14. Continuing efforts to persuade Harry Dresden that you are a responsible and financially secure person 1 XP
  15. Taught your first mortal student sorcery 1 XP
  16. Informed Detective Murphy about the Naagloshii 1XP
  17. Introduced SI to friendly ghosts 1 XP (Will have a long term impact)
  18. Received a message from the akuma of Emma-O without giving insult while learning something of them 1XP

Total XP: 1 (Unspent) + 8 (XP Refunded from change in how Essence Rating is advanced) +21 (Earned this Arc) = 30

How do you spent your Essence?

Special
[] Alchemy: The Art of transmutation, not merely of matter, but mind and spirit. To all you have learned from Bob, all you have read in Harry's books the insights of an elder age are added, as steel is alloyed from charcoal and iron (Cost 3XP/Dot)

Constructive Convergence of Principles costs -2XP due to the feat of God-crafting

[] New Ability 3xp

[] Ancient sorcery spell 10xp

[] Attribute current rating *4xp

[] Ability current rating *2xp

[] Caste Ability current rating *1xp

[] Caste or Favored Charm Charm rating *3xp

[] Other Charm Charm rating *4xp

[] Willpower current rating

[] First dot of a Sorcerer Path 4xp

[] Follow-up dots in a Sorcerer Path current rating *3xp

[]Merit current rating *4xp

[] Buy down Touch of Frost
-[] 2 XP to remove

[] Buy down Nightmares (4 XP)

[] Write in


OOC: By Raw it would be 4 XP to start a sorcery path and then 3 from then on, but you guys got a 1 XP discount so it's 3/dot all the way
 
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[X] Plan Authority is Asskicking
-[x] Molly: 27xp
-[x] Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
-[x] Wind-Born Stride, 8 XP
-[x] Murder is Meat, 4 XP
-[x] Naked Wicked Souls, 3 XP
-[x] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
-[x] Lydia: 7xp + 1xp (25% of Molly's + 1)
-[x] Command The Dead: 3xp
-[x] Authority of the Psychopomp: 3xp
-[x] Alertness 2: 2xp

2xp left over/banked.

Molly.

NWS - Perception + Empathy against a difficulty of the target's (Wits + Subterfuge). Success tells her what deed in all of his history the target is most ashamed of. With three or more successes, the Infernal also learns some specific details of the sin (names, dates, things she might have seen had she been present to witness the act). With five or more successes she may even learn details the target himself doesn't know, such as longterm consequences of his sin which would further compound his guilt.

ATB + BSM = -4 difficulty on a 6 dice roll without Excellency. So even at max dice we roll it a difficulty of 6.

MMP - we need to feed our minions and Wvampires fully fed are POWERFUL. Our newest minion has not fully awakened and this is a good way to Awaken her without getting people killed.

WBS + MiM = Our one two to ensure we can kill an immortzl anc that it stays dead. This is MUST HAVE if we want to perma kill a Greater Akuma and they will be sent against us. So we need this.

RVD = Our Essence regeneration made easy and unlocks cross Atlantic travel. Also falmor trolling potential.

Lydia.

Command the Dead would allow her to steal control over other people's zombies and hostile ghosts.

Vampires with blood-magic can also make zombies. Even Wan Kuei have ways to do so.

Authority of the Psychomp gives her -2 DC social buffs against the undead. Which includes ghosts and Jade Court vampires and would make it a lot easier for her to get information from the local ghost population.

[X] Plan Duck Out

[X] Plan Authority Doesn't Need Mind Control. (With Running to Forever)
 
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You know, from a certain point of view Inner Devils Unchained looks a lot like a lesser version of making a Wan Kuei without the target needing to die first…

Yes, it's mechanically creating a bane that possesses them and so making them a fomor, but the empowerment of your dark side is a lot like awakening and empowering the Po so it can grant demon arts, which are pretty thematically similar to a fomor's powers.
 
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