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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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...You know what? Screw it.

@DragonParadox, can I make a homebrew Charm that could protect an Infernal from mind-scrying means or somesuch? To better protect one's secrets and not allow them to be seen at all. Abyssals and Sidereals have such Charms effects in the form of Entombed Thoughts Meditation and Conclusive Wisdom. And since many Exalted Charms are basically different iterations of the same Charm effect, why can't Infernals?

I was thinking of something that would make it so that whenever someone's peering inside the mind of the Infernal, they always succeed. But only receive the puzzling result of "THE MONSTER IS HERE". Much like the Infernal Monster Form Charm in Exalted Second Edition.
 
Jack vile Ripper said:
...You know what? Screw it.

@DragonParadox, can I make a homebrew Charm that could protect an Infernal from mind-scrying means or somesuch? To better protect one's secrets and not allow them to be seen at all. Abyssals and Sidereals have such Charms effects in the form of Entombed Thoughts Meditation and Conclusive Wisdom. And since many Exalted Charms are basically different iterations of the same Charm effect, why can't Infernals?

I was thinking of something that would make it so that whenever someone's peering inside the mind of the Infernal, they always succeed. But only receive the puzzling result of "THE MONSTER IS HERE". Much like the Infernal Monster Form Charm in Exalted Second Edition.
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No home-brews to start with. Molly is not experienced enough to even think of making charms. You guys already have a means to break out of an arbitrarily strong geas (at a cost) and that is more than any other mortal in the setting does.
 
DragonParadox said:
No home-brews to start with. Molly is not experienced enough to even think of making charms. You guys already have a means to break out of an arbitrarily strong geas (at a cost) and that is more than any other mortal in the setting does.
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Yeah, that's cool and alright. But we can make such things in the future, aye? When Molly has at least managed to retain some semblance of control over her powers?
 
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Jack vile Ripper said:
Yeah, that's cool and alright. But we can make it in the future, aye? When Molly has at least managed to retain some semblance of control over her powers?
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Sure, though it is less about her lacking control of her power, and more about now understanding them. An exalted always has perfect control over the powers they posses at any point, because they are not spells, not in any way external. Losing control of them would be like losing control of your left arm... but just because your left arm moves as you want it to does not mean you understand the anatomy of it, how the muscles and veins and bones work together and how the brain sends signals.
 
Riveting!

Well, well, well. Seems like I need to better read the Thousand Hells Supplement to better refresh my mind over which hell this Charm resides under. That and reading the mechanics to make sure I didn't accidentally create an overpowered Charm, would be bad.

Brainstorming time.
 
Jack vile Ripper said:
Riveting!

Well, well, well. Seems like I need to better read the Thousand Hells Supplement to better refresh my mind over which hell this Charm resides under. That and reading the mechanics to make sure I didn't accidentally create an overpowered Charm, would be bad.

Brainstorming time.
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Its a charm to break the setting even harder and more easily than it was already being broken. It will inherently be overpowered.

So you seem very fond of golden years tarnished black. Are you sure its a good fit for Molly?

Cause eroding peoples intimacies and sanity surely has... uses? I am just having a hard time thinking of what we should use it for, and on who?

Eroding Dresdens Loyalty to the wizard council would be great and all, or our mothers loyalty to... whatever it is that might convince her were an evil demon that needs stabbing. But... the results we get from using that charm aren't as guaranteed as say the one that mind controls people into being our minions.
 
DragonParadox said:
You would get their full true name, for any information gathering purposes that would be all you need to identify them, but you would not be able to bind by it since you did not hear it from them, you read it in Ye Old Legacy Cosmic Phone Book that almost no one even knows is there.
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So how does summoning work here then, because summoning and then binding a spirit doesn't actually require getting the name for that spirit from that it's mouth, just knowledge of what to call it and the discipline to beat it's conviction.
 
zxzx24 said:
So you seem very fond of golden years tarnished black. Are you sure its a good fit for Molly?

Cause eroding peoples intimacies and sanity surely has... uses? I am just having a hard time thinking of what we should use it for, and on who?

Eroding Dresdens Loyalty to the wizard council would be great and all, or our mothers loyalty to... whatever it is that might convince her were an evil demon that needs stabbing. But... the results we get from using that charm aren't as guaranteed as say the one that mind controls people into being our minions.
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Indeed, it has usages. Very good usages. Let me explain:
Golden Years Tarnished Black (••)
For those lost in the dark there is, at least, always the refuge of happier times and brighter memories. The Infernal can deny even this comfort, poisoning such memories with the darkness of her dread Essence.
System: The Infernal reminds her target of a happy memory ("Do you remember your wedding day?"), then rolls Manipulation + Subterfuge against a difficulty of the victim's Willpower. Success taints and tarnishes the memory; the good things about it become harder to recall, while flaws, problems, and irritations are magnified until the memory becomes a source of pain and anger. If the victim spends a number of points of Willpower equal to the Infernal's Essence rating, they may reclaim the joy in a tainted memory, but this also provides the Infernal with a perfect copy of the memory in question.
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The core tenets of the Charm are perversion and acquisition. The Infernal initiates the social combat, eliciting a memory for the target. She then enhances her speech so that said memory becomes tarnished. This could turn a gleeful serial killer into noticing that he's criminal that does wrongdoing, thus he could turn himself in to the police in order to repent his crimes. Or an evil spirit who took a liking whenever it eats babies in the woods. It then notices that victory tastes hollow, and that serving under Molly is better to find a greater meaning in its life. Things like that. It can turn Molly's rivals or enemies' most pivotal point of glory into thinking that those acts are but a chore that they are forced to do. It robs them the joy of being evil. This is where Molly comes in, she could tempt them to serve her instead. To befriend her. To gain purpose from serving her.

And if they were to Spend Willpower to still retain that joy? That means that Molly gets a perfect clear vision of said memory as well. This could be a great Blackmail material. Such as Wizard who gains a high-ranking position from killing their mentor without their superiors knowing anything better, now Molly knows it and she can exact promises and payment to keep her mouth shut from said Wizard. She can coerce the Wizard to join her banners and with the correct Charm, make it so that the Wizard would never and could never leave her service.

And you know what's the best part of this Charm? The person whom Molly affect with this Charm doesn't know that they've been affected. Which means that we can use it to whomever we want! No notice, no warning. Just a faint realization that their most prestigious moment is nothing but dirt and mud this whole time.
 
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flotter said:
So how does summoning work here then, because summoning and then binding a spirit doesn't actually require getting the name for that spirit from that it's mouth, just knowledge of what to call it and the discipline to beat it's conviction.
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You guys can still research a spirit's name to summon and bind it as a normal ritualist like with Harry and the Earlking, I just do not think it would be a very fun game is you could go down an arbitrary list of spirits and make an army with just Crown of Eyes from the comfort of your couch. The way it works fluff wise is the information you get from Crown would be too abstract, too distant to conjure and bind by
 
I really do recommend the Crown of Glory the small fey are everywhere across the world and spread information lightning quick. It only takes minutes for any public event to be know worldwide among the supernatural.

Even just on the local level of Chicago taking over the spy network of small fey would secure family and friends to an great level. Not to mention the in-depth knowledge of the ways they would grant us.
 
DragonParadox said:
You guys can still research a spirit's name to summon and bind it as a normal ritualist like with Harry and the Earlking, I just do not think it would be a very fun game is you could go down an arbitrary list of spirits and make an army with just Crown of Eyes from the comfort of your couch. The way it works fluff wise is the information you get from Crown would be too abstract, too distant to conjure and bind by
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I mean sure, but I don't see how asking our crown for a name different is meaningfully different from Harry asking Bob for the same thing.

And if balance is still a concern…well, bindings fade, and bound spirits can still attempt to break lose anyways. There is literally not enough time in a day for Molly to bind and maintain an army of even the weakest of pixies. On top of that, most things hate being bound, so having the wrong thing break loose means getting a permanent enemy, and they'll bring friends.

The ability to summon and (theoretically) bind whoever we want is powerful to be sure, but we can't bind everyone and overreaching comes with serious consequences. Even success still means people reacting to us and planning counters, which is plenty interesting. If you're still dead-set then fair enough, but I think your stance should be reconsidered.
 
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flotter said:
I mean sure, but I don't see how asking our crown for a name different is meaningfully different from Harry asking Bob for the same thing.

And if balance is still a concern…well, bindings fade, and bound spirits can still attempt to break lose anyways. There is literally not enough time in a day for Molly to bind and maintain an army of even the weakest of pixies. On top of that, most things hate being bound, so having the wrong thing break loose means getting a permanent enemy, and they'll bring friends.

The ability to summon and (theoretically) bind whoever we want is powerful to be sure, but we can't bind everyone and overreaching comes with serious consequences. Even success still means people reacting to us and planning counters, which is plenty interesting. If you're still dead-set then fair enough, but I think your stance should be reconsidered.
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Your bindings do not fade, explicitly you have a mechanisms to make an army of loyal dark spirits as long as you have access and the ability to beat them or otherwise persuade them to serve. I am find with you guys getting a court of dark spirits, but I want you to think about the mechanics of getting access to them, especially as the system does not really handle 'and then I summoned a legion of wicked spirits and scoured the land' particularly well. As someone who has tried to improvise a mass combat system before... well let's just say it's not a good idea.
 
In other words ask, not what an exalted cannot do. Ask what they choose to do. Exalted where created to fight beings that often had infinity as of their basic physical body.
 
flotter said:
I mean…sort of? I did some digging on demons in the Dresden Files, and while I was wrong to say that all demons serve the big L of Hell, calling the Fallen demons isn't wrong and neither is saying that all demons of hell serve Lucy. (Even if it's more how employees in a company serve the CEO, it still counts.)

And yeah. I know that angels are a Big Deal. The fact that monkey boy here was dismissive instead of scared at the thought of Lucifer is why I'm suspicious that we're dealing with something not native to the Dresdenverse.

Edit:link to some WoJ on demons here.
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I just read the link for this and well...

What, if anything, could threaten the Carpenter household right now?
Nuthin' much. Yeah, Michael's got a dozen angels on constant security detail. He's fine. There's one that goes with each kid when they go to school. It's ridiculous around there. And they've also got, you know, Mouse, there to keep track of things. Plus they've got like the biggest threshold in the entire WORLD for that kind of thing.

This is going to be fun if you guys take any charms that can outright see and interact with hidden spirits.
 
DragonParadox said:
I just read the link for this and well...

What, if anything, could threaten the Carpenter household right now?
Nuthin' much. Yeah, Michael's got a dozen angels on constant security detail. He's fine. There's one that goes with each kid when they go to school. It's ridiculous around there. And they've also got, you know, Mouse, there to keep track of things. Plus they've got like the biggest threshold in the entire WORLD for that kind of thing.

This is going to be fun if you guys take any charms that can outright see and interact with hidden spirits.
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So. So many angels. Also holy shit that's a lot of defenses.

... will we even be able to go into that house? Did molly live there?
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
You forgot that all members of the family are blessed with good luck. Random coincidence, chance encounters, stumbling across future allies constantly.
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Molly: I can do that as well: :)

Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••)
Even the damned pray, and the Infernal may choose to answer these prayers. When the Infernal hears another being express a wish to be something they currently are not (stronger, smarter, more beautiful, more wealthy, and so forth), she may reach out with her Essence to grant the stated wish, even if the wish was not uttered in serious expectation of fulfillment. There is, of course, a price.

System: Upon hearing an uttered wish, the Infernal may spend 5 Essence to grant it. The world conspires to bring about the Infernal's blessing as soon as possible, usually within the same scene. The beneficiary knows only that the hand of fortune is upon them, and they
may accept or reject it. Rejection costs a point of Willpower. Sensing the sinister price attached to the gift requires a Perception + Awareness roll against difficulty 8. The Infernal can grant any of the following: a dot of an Attribute; a dot of an Ability; a dot of a Background;
a Merit; or she can remove a Flaw. No character can have more than one wish granted in the course of a year. There are two hidden prices to the Infernal's gift.
First: At any point after granting a wish, the Infernal may approach the beneficiary and ask them to perform one task on her behalf. The task may be as involved or lengthy as the Infernal desires, so long as it isn't impossible or utterly suicidal, and so long as it has some defined end-point within a year and a day. If the beneficiary refuses or shirks the Infernal's task, he is ripped from the world and cast into the Hell of Burrowing Maggots… and he is instinctively aware of the wages of disobedience, once the task has been spoken.
Second: After accepting three gifts from the Infernal, the beneficiary becomes a creature of darkness, instinctively loyal to the Infernal, who reduces the difficulty of all social rolls against the character by three.

Incidentally you guys do not have to ask for some dread price, you could ask someone for a quarter or a pack of gum and leave them with their wish without the price hanging over them. Just don't do it three times on normal people or they will start pinging demon alarms.
 
DragonParadox said:
Molly: I can do that as well: :)

Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••)
Even the damned pray, and the Infernal may choose to answer these prayers. When the Infernal hears another being express a wish to be something they currently are not (stronger, smarter, more beautiful, more wealthy, and so forth), she may reach out with her Essence to grant the stated wish, even if the wish was not uttered in serious expectation of fulfillment. There is, of course, a price.

System: Upon hearing an uttered wish, the Infernal may spend 5 Essence to grant it. The world conspires to bring about the Infernal's blessing as soon as possible, usually within the same scene. The beneficiary knows only that the hand of fortune is upon them, and they
may accept or reject it. Rejection costs a point of Willpower. Sensing the sinister price attached to the gift requires a Perception + Awareness roll against difficulty 8. The Infernal can grant any of the following: a dot of an Attribute; a dot of an Ability; a dot of a Background;
a Merit; or she can remove a Flaw. No character can have more than one wish granted in the course of a year. There are two hidden prices to the Infernal's gift.
First: At any point after granting a wish, the Infernal may approach the beneficiary and ask them to perform one task on her behalf. The task may be as involved or lengthy as the Infernal desires, so long as it isn't impossible or utterly suicidal, and so long as it has some defined end-point within a year and a day. If the beneficiary refuses or shirks the Infernal's task, he is ripped from the world and cast into the Hell of Burrowing Maggots… and he is instinctively aware of the wages of disobedience, once the task has been spoken.
Second: After accepting three gifts from the Infernal, the beneficiary becomes a creature of darkness, instinctively loyal to the Infernal, who reduces the difficulty of all social rolls against the character by three.

Incidentally you guys do not have to ask for some dread price, you could ask someone for a quarter or a pack of gum and leave them with their wish without the price hanging over them. Just don't do it three times on normal people or they will start pinging demon alarms.
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Another fantastic way to manufacture minions.

Also cure cancer, protect our loved ones, get people to come to our demon world...

Edit:
Also synergize strongly with crown of eyes. Assuming we can ask "what would this person trade their soul for" like that one solar charm.
 
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zxzx24 said:
Another fantastic way to manufacture minions.

Also cure cancer, protect our loved ones, get people to come to our demon world...

Edit:
Also synergize strongly with crown of eyes. Assuming we can ask "what would this person trade their soul for" like that one solar charm.
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I mean sure, but they still have to do the genie thing and say what they wish aloud, you cannot just give it to them.
 
zxzx24 said:
Maybe we could intimidate people into doing that? :thonk:
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Yep, that is entirely acceptable as far as the charm is concerned, so is trickery, as long as they technically ask for a thing and you give it to them the deal is done.

Do keep in mind though if you take that charm at character generation your anima is going to flare when you spend half your daily essence on it and your anima is... of a particular style. No one is going to confuse you for their guardian angel is what I'm saying.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yep, that is entirely acceptable as far as the charm is concerned, so is trickery, as long as they technically ask for a thing and you give it to them the deal is done.

Do keep in mind though if you take that charm at character generation your anima is going to flare when you spend half your daily essence on it and your anima is... of a particular style. No one is going to confuse you for their guardian angel is what I'm saying.
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I dunno, eyes and flame are pretty on theme for angels...green colour notwhithstanding.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
I really do recommend the Crown of Glory the small fey are everywhere across the world and spread information lightning quick. It only takes minutes for any public event to be know worldwide among the supernatural.

Even just on the local level of Chicago taking over the spy network of small fey would secure family and friends to an great level. Not to mention the in-depth knowledge of the ways they would grant us.
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The little folk are good, but they aren't divine the deepest secrets or a demon of the identity of a secretive warlock good. They're not spy on the domain of physical gods good.

Crown of glory is cool, but it's basically just making equipment. Molly already has the components of a build to start getting good st that, and crafting charms are already a good idea to grab due to the great utility and flexibility items provide anyway.

Unless I've misunderstood something CoG doesn't offer the same level of otherwise incredibly difficult to acquire ability.
 
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