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General Exalted Thread

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DayDreamer said:
Depends on what level of PC you're talking about. Low level, 3.5 was way easier to GM, because NPCs didn't have as many powers, there were fewer things overall to keep track of, and things were shorter, making it easier to fudge things. High level you're probably right, but high level D&D was so completely broken in 3.5 I'm not sure how to evaluate the ease or difficulty of GMing.
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This is hilariously hilariously untrue, but we can argue that in the D&D thread if you want to keep claiming that.

vicky_molokh said:
Could you further expand on this? There seem to be implications under the surface of these paragraphs, but I'm not sure which of the directions of interpreting them is the most appropriate/intended.


Hmm. As a client of WW/OPP (non-backer, but one who did buy 3e mostly for inspiration and comparison), I actually sympathise with Holden on that one, even though I agree that he seems to be a suboptimal person to pick for public speaking. He said that consent was implied by the wording/context, and it was good enough. But then people went on to search for precedents in various books regarding use of the word 'lover' to mean 'victim'. If he were to agree with such arguments, I would see this as a sign of weakness. Listening to reasonable criticism is good; pandering to people who pick the worst possible reading of a text and demand changing it isn't.
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Words have meanings, both denotatipn and connotation. When someone points out that your words have unpleasant connotations, the non-asshole response is to say "whoops, didn't mean that, let me fix it."

Now granted, if you're in a forum debate, and someone is willfully misinterpreting your words, that trolling and you should call the mods. However, that's not at all the same as people politely pointing out that the wording on a text in a book for mass market publication is iffy and can be read in an unfortunate way. in such a case, the writer is pretty much professionally obligated to fix that, because with that large an audience, misinterpretation is virtually guarantees, and not taking easy, basic steps to avoid offending or triggering people unnecesarily is crappy behavior.

So basically, Holden cannot into acting like the professional he supposedly is now, rather than a forumite in an intermet slapfight.

And that is very much something that can and ahould be criticized. Exalted fams want and (600k USD's worth of) deserve professional work on 3e.

SerGregness said:
So, as I've mentioned a time or two previously in the thread, I've been working on some War charms for Ex3. I've got enough done to count as a proper first draft, so I'd like to post 'em up here for some feedback
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Thanks, These seem really useful.

The only issue i have is that as written 3e is silent on the question of using defend other on a battlegroup, and your charm for that, while cool, is likely to make a GM say I cannot DO a BG without it, which would have made the spec ops group commander solar on of my players made, and I hope to run an expy of someday myself, rather sad.
 
Aranfan said:
oh, sorry
:(
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You can often take parts of a character and reuse them, and the only way to start building characters quickly is to build characters.

Also, sometimes you can essentially slot a character into a game, and the fact that games are basically solar only at the moment probably helps with this. As for where you can play, I'm not sure.
 
I mean, I'd like to think Hope would slot fairly easily into any game set in the East or the scavenger lands. I realize I'd have to make someone new for a game set elsewhere.

I just. I just don't want her to end up in the dustbin.

I'm sorry, it's silly for me to get so emotional over a fictional character who hasn't even had a chance to do anything yet, isn't it?
 
Aranfan said:
I mean, I'd like to think Hope would slot fairly easily into any game set in the East or the scavenger lands. I realize I'd have to make someone new for a game set elsewhere.

I just. I just don't want her to end up in the dustbin.

I'm sorry, it's silly for me to get so emotional over a fictional character who hasn't even had a chance to do anything yet, isn't it?
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I believe the standard approach is to stick her in your "characters I want to play someday" folder and flip through it whenever you join a game.
 
Back when I was reading 2nd edition I made about 3 characters, I think? Somewhere around that, possibly as many as 5. Hope's Last Gasp is the only one I really remember in any detail.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
Now granted, if you're in a forum debate, and someone is willfully misinterpreting your words, that trolling and you should call the mods. However, that's not at all the same as people politely pointing out that the wording on a text in a book for mass market publication is iffy and can be read in an unfortunate way. in such a case, the writer is pretty much professionally obligated to fix that, because with that large an audience, misinterpretation is virtually guarantees, and not taking easy, basic steps to avoid offending or triggering people unnecesarily is crappy behavior.
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Holden said:
Trying to enforce absolute uniformity across all tables is one such doomed crusade; another is pursuit of absolute clarity such that GMs don't have to make rulings (within reason).
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Exalted 3e is a great system that was seriously harmed by having zero editorial oversight to fix the handful of idiotic decisions. I was fortunate enough not to give a flying fuck about Exalted 3e when it was being developed so I could just smirk and laugh at Holden being the worst person at PR before going about my day. Lord knows how furious I would've been if I had cared about the product he was working on. I get mad enough reading the occasional archived post from him.

Now that I'm in a game, the sensation that this actually genuinely really good, crunchy system has been misserved can't be gotten out of my head. It's the little errors that are frustrating, because they could have been fixed relatively easily and they didn't bother to. BP/XP and unclear Charm writing are the two big ones, and it's clear that they not only didn't fix them, they didn't care to try. BP for advancement takes like three minutes to homebrew up. Unclear Charm writing takes longer, but they could've just asked players to write down when they were confused about Charm interactions or ambiguous language and fixed the major issues. Instead, they let the perfect be the enemy of the good, to the game's detriment, so about once or twice a session I'll run into "wait. This doesn't seem to make sense. How does this Charm work?" and we'll have to take a moment and intuit Morke's true meaning from the text of a Charm that seems to suggest something nonsensical based on its mechanics as written.
 
Is having Hope's Last Gasp be the identical twin sister of the Shoat of the Mire a dumb idea? I mean, that's the entire concept, but is it a dumb concept?
 
Aranfan said:
So, um. If I wanted to play a 3e game with Hope's Last Gasp. Where should I go online for a PbP game? Are there any openings here on SV?
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I'm running a game on RpNation right now. I'm not recruiting, but I had little trouble finding players there and I like the platform. So that's where I'd go if I were you.

Nonagon said:
BP/XP and unclear Charm writing are the two big ones, and it's clear that they not only didn't fix them, they didn't care to try. BP for advancement takes like three minutes to homebrew up.
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At this point, they've dug their heels in so deep that they can't bear to fix their silliest mistakes. It's become psychologically essential for them to double down again and again.

At least, that's how it looks to me. I've heard people speculate that they're deliberately screwing up the game in targeted ways to drive away certain types of fan, but that seems a bit far-fetched to me.

PS: It is absolutely bizarre to me that the Ex3 defense team in the latest kerfuffle contained me, notthepenguins, Imrix, and Irked.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
Thanks, These seem really useful.

The only issue i have is that as written 3e is silent on the question of using defend other on a battlegroup, and your charm for that, while cool, is likely to make a GM say I cannot DO a BG without it, which would have made the spec ops group commander solar on of my players made, and I hope to run an expy of someday myself, rather sad.
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Ah, that charm actually works the other way 'round. "A Battle group targeted by the Order action enhanced with this charm may reflexively use a Defend Other action on every allied character within Close range of the unit", so it's the battle group that uses Defend Other on whoever else is near it. That's not the first time I've seen people read it your way, though. Is there some part of the wording I could clear up?

Glad you like 'em other than that, though! Balance is still shaky at this point. I've already decided to change Mob-Dispersing Rebuke to half essence dice, rounded up since for some reason I didn't quite grok how low most battlegroup's dice pools would be for rout checks and it's not really supposed to make them autofail. :p
 
SerGregness said:
Ah, that charm actually works the other way 'round. "A Battle group targeted by the Order action enhanced with this charm may reflexively use a Defend Other action on every allied character within Close range of the unit", so it's the battle group that uses Defend Other on whoever else is near it. That's not the first time I've seen people read it your way, though. Is there some part of the wording I could clear up?

Glad you like 'em other than that, though! Balance is still shaky at this point. I've already decided to change Mob-Dispersing Rebuke to half essence dice, rounded up since for some reason I didn't quite grok how low most battlegroup's dice pools would be for rout checks and it's not really supposed to make them autofail. :p
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I was referring to Shield of the Sun's Chosen, not Undaunted Phalanx Defense
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
The only issue i have is that as written 3e is silent on the question of using defend other on a battlegroup, and your charm for that, while cool, is likely to make a GM say I cannot DO a BG without it, which would have made the spec ops group commander solar on of my players made, and I hope to run an expy of someday myself, rather sad.
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Wait, you let people use DO in a battlegroup without a charm? Because that seems blatanly supernatural to me.
 
Well, how about someone actually puts together Solar Nanoha?
Oh hey, I can do that!
So I'll do it twice here. One char-gen character to represent her right at the start of the series, and one at Essence 3 to represent her during StrikerS.
(Do note that the chargen-character isn't built for ideal XP-progression, but just to look good).
Also, I could come up with more backstory, but I didn't get enough sleep so eh.


The daughter of a retired Tia and a retired spy, Nanoha grew up in a calm, wealthy coastal town in the West. Her life was secure and comfortable, she had friends and received a good education - the only thing lacking from her life was a sense of purpose. Until she found a strange weasel-like animal one day, took it in and decided to stand up to the ghosts that followed and attacked it. At this moment her life changed forever, chosen by the Unconquered Sun for her pure dedication. Filled with purpose and the power to pursue it, she decided to fight the incursion of strange ghosts that now threatened her town.
Caste: Dawn
Attributes: Strength 2, Dexterity 5, Stamina 2, Charisma 4, Manipulation 1, Appearance 2, Perception 3, Intelligence 3, Wits 5
Abilities: Athletics 2, Awareness 3, Brawl 1, Dodge 3, Integrity 3, Martial Arts (Righteous Devil 5), Melee 1, Occult 2, Presence 3, Resistance 2, Socialize 3, Lore 3 (All favored/caste except Lore, Martial Arts is Supernal)
Specializations: Martial Arts (Subdue Opponents), Dodge (Lethal Attacks), Presence (Avoid Fights), Socialize (Understand others Pain)
Merits: Star-Shrouded Heart (5), Martial Artist (4), Familiar (Intelligent Weasel) (1), Language (Sea Tongue)
Willpower 9 (8 BP)
Intimacies: Defining Principle (My duty to protect others), Major Principle (Everyone deserves a chance), Major Principle (Listen to others plight) , Minor Tie (my family), Minor Tie (her familiar), Minor Tie (her friends)
Limit Break: Limit Trigger (Innocents Suffering), Compassionate Martyrdom
Charms:
Athletics: Monkey Leap Technique, Soaring Crane Leap
Integrity: Enduring Mental Toughness
Lore: Harmonious Academic Methodology
Martial Arts: Blossom of Inevitable Demise, Cloud of Ebon Devils, Kiss of the Sun Concentration, Righteous Devil Form, Azure Abacus Mediation
Occult: Spirit-Detecting Glance, Spirit-Cutting Attack, Ghost-Eating Technique
Presence: Harmonious Presence Meditation, Tiger's Dread Symmetry
Resistance: Durability of Oak Meditation
Socialize: Motive-Discerning Technique
Here, we mostly have her fighting with an artifact Fire-Wand (using the one @Omicron made, which very helpfully also comes with two experience-free Evocations). She's also able to leap quite far, can be very intimidating already, is well-educated and is good at looking into peoples hearts. Oh, and she has spirit-killer charms because the Jewel-Seeds are best represented as some form of spirit or maybe ghost.

Attributes: Strength 4, Dexterity 5, Stamina 5, Charisma 4, Manipulation 1, Appearance 2, Perception 3, Intelligence 3, Wits 5
Abilities: Athletics 4, Awareness 3, Brawl 5, Bureaucracy 1 Dodge 3, Integrity 5, Linguistics 1, Martial Arts (Righteous Devil 5, White Reaper 5), Occult 5, Presence 5, Resistance 5, Socialize 3, Lore 3, War 4
Specializations: Martial Arts (Subdue Opponents), Dodge (Lethal Attacks), Presence (Avoid Fights), Socialize (Understand others Pain)
Merits: Star-Shrouded Heart (5), Martial Artist (4), Burning Reaper Combination, Language (Sea Tongue, Low Realm. River Speak)
Willpower 10 (8 BP)
Intimacies: Defining Principle (My duty to protect others), Major Principle (Everyone deserves a chance), Major Principle (Listen to others plight) , Minor Principle (Redeeming Others), Minor Tie (Family, Distant Respect), Major Tie (Subordinates, Protective Strictness), Defining Tie (Wife, Respectful Love), Defining Tie (Adopted Daughter, Loving Compassion), Minor Tie (Military Institutions)
Limit Break: Limit Trigger (Innocents Suffering), Compassionate Martyrdom
Charms:
Athletics: Monkey Leap Technique, Soaring Crane Leap, Unbound Eagle Approach
Brawl: Thunderclap Rush Attack, Falling Hammer Strike, One with Violence, Striving Aftershock Method, Superior Violent Knowledge
Dodge: Reflex Sidestep Technique
Integrity: Enduring Mental Toughness, Destiny-Manifesting Method
Lore: Harmonious Academic Methodology
Occult: Spirit-Detecting Glance, Spirit-Cutting Attack, Ghost-Eating Technique, Uncanny Shroud Defense, Terrestrial Circle Sorcery, Celestial Circle Sorcery
Presence: Harmonious Presence Meditation, Tiger's Dread Symmetry, Majestic Radiant Presence
Resistance: Durability of Oak Meditation, Iron Skin Concentration, Diamond-Body Prana, Iron Kettle Body, Adamant Skin Technique, Ox-Body Technique (x3), Body-Mending Meditation, Tiger-Warriors Endurance, Wound-Knitting Exercise, Essence-Gathering Temper, Willpower-Enhancing Spirit, Battle Fury Focus
Socialize: Motive-Discerning Technique, Quicksilver Falcons Eye, Dauntless Assayer Method
War: War God Descendant, League of Iron Preparation, Tiger Warrior Training Technique
Righteous Devil Style: Blossom of Inevitable Demise, Cloud of Ebon Devils, Kiss of the Sun Concentration, Righteous Devil Form, Azure Abacus Mediation, Burning Judgment Halo, Phoenix Flies on Golden Wings, Dancing Devil Trigger Finger, Caress of Thousand Hells
White Reaper Style: Falling Scythe Flash, Revolving Crescent Defense, White Reaper Form, Bleeding Crescent Strike, Greatest Killer Attitude, Enemies Like Grass, Flickering Corona Barrier, Impenetrable White Shroud, Snow Follows Winter
Evocations: Dragon Breaks Through, Raging Hearts Pursuit, Endless Novas Blooming, Whirling Stardust Cloud, Starlight Breaks The Night, White Devils Crown
Spells: Infallible Messenger, Travel Without Distance
Here, we have the full combination of White Reaper and Righteous Devil Style. Start the combat by being very intimating, whittle them down from a distance, rush in close and finish them off (with befriending, if desired).
She also became more intimidating, more mentally resilient - and gained a ton of durability. 16 health levels, two methods of healing them in combat, the ability to ignore even harsh wound-penalties, lots of soak. Combined with reversing onslaught penalties, she's very though. Oh, and Battle-Fury Focus fits her very well by now.
She also picked up Sorcery - Infallible Messenger is a great spell for "scanning for people" if you have it as your control spell. She could also pick some merits or useful shaping rituals this way, though I haven't picked any here yet. I gave her Tiger Warrior Training Technique because it fits reasonably well with her being an instructor and officer.
 
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Broken25 said:
Wait, you let people use DO in a battlegroup without a charm? Because that seems blatanly supernatural to me.
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Master swordsman 1 tries to use wide sweeping swords strike against a few dozen strong force of guardsmen. Master swordsman 2 interposes herself, blocking 1's blows

Not sulernatural at all.

Remeber, you can totes make attacks against a Battlegroup as a solo combatant, and if so, shouldn't another single combatant be able to intercept you?
 
Sanctaphrax said:
At this point, they've dug their heels in so deep that they can't bear to fix their silliest mistakes. It's become psychologically essential for them to double down again and again.

At least, that's how it looks to me. I've heard people speculate that they're deliberately screwing up the game in targeted ways to drive away certain types of fan, but that seems a bit far-fetched to me.
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Yeah. They love Exalted. I can't believe they're making anything other than what they think is the best viable version of Exalted. I think they're making some pretty substantial mistakes in the process, but they're not going to sabotage it out of spite.

PS: It is absolutely bizarre to me that the Ex3 defense team in the latest kerfuffle contained me, notthepenguins, Imrix, and Irked.
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It deserves criticism, but fair criticism.
 
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Sanctaphrax said:
At least, that's how it looks to me. I've heard people speculate that they're deliberately screwing up the game in targeted ways to drive away certain types of fan, but that seems a bit far-fetched to me.
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Irked said:
They love Exalted. I can't believe they're making anything other than what they think is the best viable version of Exalted. I think they're making some pretty substantial mistakes in the process, but they're not going to sabotage it out of spite.
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On this:
While I can't grasp what the Holdenian Grand Vision of Exalted is, I have to admit that the overall vibe I get from it seems to be that they indeed drive towards a certain type of fans, and away from other type(s) as a consequence. And this overall vibe, IMHO, is very strongly related to what was considered to be 'typical [classic] WW fan' in the gaming circles I frequented over the years. Note that the local community is in many ways very much unlike these 'typical [classic] WW fans': the majority of you seems to admit that system matters, dislike metaplots, and strongly favour plausibility (the way you see it, at least) over the rule of cool and over-the-topness that seems to permeate WW's works, among other things. But understanding some bits of what the target fans are unlike does not give me full comprehension about what they're supposed to be like.
 
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