General Exalted Thread

[EarthScorpion]

@EarthScorpion, really not a fan of how Abyssals get shafted. Comparatively high chance of stillbirth, okay, frequent mutation of the kid into a ghoul or some other kind of Creature of Death, sure, have normal children archieve at best ghostblooded status, yes, but at least let them have some children, for gods sake. Not to mention that, given Resonance, any such children are already at enough risk. What you're doing really just feels like they're being pointlessly dicked over.

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Abyssals are the Chosen of Death. Death is not life. It's sort of the direct opposite. Their power directly avoids life, and that means that if they channel too much of it around potential children they could have, they're... not having children.

How do you avoid this if you're an Abyssal?

Don't raise your Essence/Enlightenment - stop supping from the Well of Oblivion. The mother should eat a diet which isn't, you know, aligned with the forces of universal entropy and destruction [1]. They should also avoid spending time around Abyssal anima flares, not go anywhere near shadowlands, expose themselves to living essence to counter the effects of the necrotic essence within them, and generally do the precise opposite of what other splats do to encourage having god-babies / monster-babies. If you do that, you'll have a ghost-blood instead.

But if an Abyssal does the sort of thing that a Solar would do to have a golden child (anima flare a lot, eat a diet aligned with their essence source, do Splat-y things, spend time around their kind of manse), they are being entirely pointedly dicked over. By their own actions. If you act too much like a stereotypical Murder McMurderface Abyssal, you're screwing yourself over.

Mass murder is bad for a pregnancy. Likewise, the best Abyssal fathers are deadbeats who abandon their waifus - and go sit somewhere remote and meditate and not engage in killing sprees for the duration of the pregnancy because of the law of sympathy.

[1] A lot of greens, plenty of protein, absolutely no rotted corpse-meat or stagnant swamp water.

The new body also ages normally, right?

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I was unsure whether it was better to have the Bureau of Destiny issue them a baby body (which means you get a weary starborn going "Jupiter fuck! I got killed and now I have to go though potty training and puberty again?") or whether they should just get issued a body that's spare and so they wind up in a random body. And then they're like "... urgh, no, I don't want to be goddamn fifty. Put me back in the queue."

But yes, regardless, it ages normally.

 

[FaeGlade Plural]

Hmm, the text says "declare (charms) before any dice are rolled".
Does that "any dice" mean "any dice at all related to the attack", or is it "the dice you are affecting by the charm"?
If it's the latter, you basically get the 2E step system back:

"I attack, using these charms on the attack roll."
"I defend, using these charms to defend"
Attack roll gets resolved, and the attack hits.
"I use these charms to enhance my damage roll"
"I use these charms to increase my damage resistance"
Damage gets resolved.


Of course, some mechanical silliness like the There is no Wind example aside, I don't actually see the drawback of handling it like this:
"I attack, declaring all charms that will enhance it's damage and attack roll"
"I defend, declaring all charms that will enhance my defense and damage resistance".
At least it's pretty simple and clear, and as I said I don't see a drawback to it right now.

 

[Gnarker]

Firstly, not being able to create life is kind of thematic to Abyssals.

Secondly, wheee Onyx Necromancy lets you summon your horrifying stillborn Greater Dead-tier abominations from the depths of the Labyrinth yaaaaaay fun for all the family~

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An Abyssal finding himself with an unplanned family and having to deal with the biggest threat to them being himself is equally thematic.

And while yes, summoning the twisted ghosts of your stillborn babies is plenty fun (for a given value of fun, at least[1]), it really shouldn't be the only fun that Abyssals get where their family is concerned.

[1]: In fact, one might even call it !!FUN!!.

How do you avoid this if you're an Abyssal?

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Alright. Thank You. You might want to make it more explicit in the write-up that this option exists.

 

[Irked]

Hmm, the text says "declare (charms) before any dice are rolled".
Does that "any dice" mean "any dice at all related to the attack", or is it "the dice you are affecting by the charm"?

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It appears to be the former. Which has interesting implications for, say, Adamant Skin Technique: you really want to get hit the turn you use that, because (a) you have to activate it before you find out, and (b) if they miss, they get to keep all but 2-3 of their Initiative to try again next turn.

 

[EarthScorpion]

Alright. Thank You. You might want to make it more explicit in the write-up that this option exists.

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No, I don't really want to.

Bluntly, "I've just found I'm a danger to my loved ones" is a low-Enlightenment Abyssal thing. If you embrace the Abyssal thing then you don't get to claim ignorance.

You're not a murderer any more. You're death.

(And if you don't embrace it, you're limiting your power. And what kind of PC are you then?)

 

[Quantumboost]

I'd presume that they can also counteract that partway by attempting to have children with other Solaroids or Celestials. Especially Solaroids, since Infernals are wellsprings of (hellish) fecundity and Solars are pretty much light and life incarnate... and they can reach the heights of Enlightenment too.

Of course, at that point their partner would probably be tons better off with a random mortal/god/elemental/demon.

 

[Gnarker]

No, I don't really want to.

Bluntly, "I've just found I'm a danger to my loved ones" is a low-Enlightenment Abyssal thing. If you embrace the Abyssal thing then you don't get to claim ignorance.

You're not a murderer any more. You're death.

(And if you don't embrace it, you're limiting your power. And what kind of PC are you then?)

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A gimped one. The option to have the powercake and then enjoy eating it shouldn't be easy, by any means, but it really shouldn't be outright impossible. Abyssals get far too much 'can't have nice things because they're cursed and giving them any means to defy that[1] is badwrongfun and not allowed' already.

[1] Besides turning into a Solar, but if you actually want to play as a Solar, then why aren't you playing one already for heavens sake.
That being the only alternative to remaining either useless or going Captain Genocide is not a lick better than saying the only options for playing Solar should be to 1., either become Sir Fluffypants, He Who Farts Rainbows and Kittens, Who Ends Injustice and Heals Cancer Merely By Being In the Same Country, or to 2., have a character arc that, in the long run, inevitably leads to them being shoved into a Monstrance and turned into an Abyssal no matter how much they and their player don't want that to happen.

 

[Omicron]

My personal preference is for the majority of an Exalt's children to be ordinary mortals, except for the occasional freak occurence with custom powers thematically based around their parent, which is essentially a random outcome most of the time unless you take drastic steps likely involving Sorcery.

 

[Aleph]

The option to have the powercake and then enjoy eating it shouldn't be easy, by any means, but it really shouldn't be outright impossible.

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... so don't go Captain Genocide, and instead take measures to avoid deathly things and boost the living essence of your child while you're pregnant. This is not easy by any means, but nor is it outright impossible.

You're arguing for a route that's already explicitly there.

 

[EarthScorpion]

A gimped one. The option to have the powercake and then enjoy eating it shouldn't be easy, by any means, but it really shouldn't be outright impossible. Abyssals get far too much 'can't have nice things because they're cursed and giving them any means to defy that[1] is badwrongfun and not allowed' already.

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Hmm. Now, let's go over this stuff again.

1. Your children will never be as good as Dragonblooded
2. No, your children don't get non-Excellency Exalted Charms. No matter what.
3. If you become too powerful and channel too much essence, you're too far from humanity to have human children. Incarnate Exalted have gods-in-flesh (who are balanced as gods). Infernal Exalted have primordial monsters (who are balanced as akuma). Abyssals, therefore, have dead babies. Who are dead. And are balanced as dead (small d, not large D. They never had a life, so they don't get to be ghosts because ghosts are creatures of memory and attachment and a foetus has neither).

Raw malevolent hunger of universal entropy is not a nurturing force. Exposing a developing foetus to the raw oblivion that lurks in the Underworld seeking an end to all things is going to snuff that tiny little candle flame out in the same way that an ocean snuffs out a match.

So, no, I am not going to present the incredibly hard path of self-denial and "no killing, even if I really, really want to and even if they deserve it and even to protect myself" as anywhere near the default option. I am not going to overtly offer it at all, because that will lead players to believe that they somehow deserve that option. A high Enlightenment Abyssal who manages to have a child is a freak and no one has done it yet. If you want to run that story, I'm going to leave a space for it in the rules - but I'm not going to offer it up or normalise it.

Just like how vampires in Requiem having children is not the default, but there's space left for it in The Wicked Dead. But it sure as hell isn't corebook material.

EDIT: I mean, damn. Alchemicals also don't get to have children. At all. Without horrific tumour-cancer-blasphemy. Abyssals, the guys who are literally channelling all the walking corpse and gothic stuff, are getting off easy on that front, despite the fact there are far more examples in fiction of machines reproducing than dead things.

 

[Gnarker]

... so don't go Captain Genocide, and instead take measures to avoid deathly things and boost the living essence of your child while you're pregnant. This is not easy by any means, but nor is it outright impossible.

You're arguing for a route that's already explicitly there.

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Except that Earthscorpion, unless I'm grossly misunderstanding things, is arguing that 'not becoming Captain Genocide' entails not leveling my Enlightenment/Essence, ever, which due to it being the god stat, would seriously gimp my characters ability to actually do anything.

Edit: Fateninja'd.

 

[Crawling Chaos]

Except that Earthscorpion, unless I'm grossly misunderstanding things, is arguing that 'not becoming Captain Genocide' entails not leveling my Enlightenment/Essence, ever, which due to it being the god stat, would seriously gimp my characters ability to actually do anything.

Edit: Fateninja'd.

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Why don't you just take what he's written and change it to suit your needs? His vision differs from yours and I doubt either of you will budge so it's easier to just do it yourself with what's already been written.

 

[uju32]

Progeny of the Celestials

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Interesting writeup.
I fancy that I can see shades of Kerisquestgame in it's thematics.

I will say that I prefer the way canon handles them as godbloods with a standard hun-po and everything.
Especially as the existence of the Golden Children provided another, and more pressing grievance for the Dragonblood Usurpation than "The Solars will destroy the world.Eventually. Maybe" motivation of the Sidereals.

 

[Imrix]

Cross-splat balance is not, and never has been, a high priority of Exalted in design or execution.

If you want to complain that this approach penalises Abyssals when they already have such a hard time from their canon ruleset, fine, I agree. However, that is an indictment of their canon rules, which we all know is hardly fresh ground. A homebrew writeup of the children of the Exalted should not be expected to fix an entire kind of Exalt.

 

[Romantic_Kaiju]

Except that Earthscorpion, unless I'm grossly misunderstanding things, is arguing that 'not becoming Captain Genocide' entails not leveling my Enlightenment/Essence, ever, which due to it being the god stat, would seriously gimp my characters ability to actually do anything.

Edit: Fateninja'd.

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Raising Essence makes it harder to have living Children.

Still birth results in dead monster baby

To avoid dead monster baby, be really, really fucking healthy and eat Healthy foods, Live in a Healthy place, and don't do things that resonate with Death.

Edit: Unless you want dead monster baby you can summon and use as an attack dog.

 

[Aleph]

Except that Earthscorpion, unless I'm grossly misunderstanding things, is arguing that 'not becoming Captain Genocide' entails not leveling my Enlightenment/Essence, ever, which due to it being the god stat, would seriously gimp my characters ability to actually do anything.

Edit: Fateninja'd.

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Really? Let's look at the rules he, you know, wrote.

There are several factors which increase the chance of this happening. The higher the Enlightenment of the parent, the more frequently it occurs. Massive essence exposure increases the chance too - should the mother frequently flare her anima, engage in massive battles or spend long periods in an appropriate demesne, the odds are greatly increased. Deliberate genesis engineering, as some Lunar and Infernal Charms can do can make it a near certainty. On the other hand, things like a reduced gestation period, multiple births or - in the case of a mortal mother - extended separation from the father can reduce the chance drastically.

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So, yes. If you raise your Enlightenment, you increase the chance of your children tipping over the cutoff point. You don't guarantee it, but you make it drastically more likely. Therefore, you will have to do exorbitantly more things to counteract it - namely the exact opposites of all the other things that increase the chances. Or you can try to do the things that reduce the chances, like having a mortal mother carry it (possible even if you're a woman with some magic IVF), etcetera. Or, preferably, both.

But that's not the default, because children are not a default part of the standard Abyssal narrative.

Interesting writeup.
I fancy that I can see shades of Kerisquest in it's thematics.

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"Shades"? What do you think Aiko is? Or for that matter the two children Keris is pregnant with. And... the Golden Children were a pretty pressing reason for the DBs to be ticked off in this writeup too? Not sure how that's at all different between the two ways to handle it.

 

[uju32]

"Shades"? What do you think Aiko is? And... the Golden Children were a pretty pressing reason for the DBs to be ticked off in this writeup too? Not sure how that's at all different between the two ways to handle it.

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In this, the Golden Children seem significantly more limited by design.
Fecundity is drastically lower than Dragonbloods, as is their power-cap, and they are cut off from the possibility of Exaltation.

If anything, their lack of a hun-po would make them less of a threat IMO, because they don't come off as mortal, and more a weird demon-thing, or a construct.
Especially since they remained vastly more expensive to raise than a loyal Gens.
And not viable in the numbers that would actually threaten the million-strong Dragonblood host.

EDIT
PS The whole research and improvement thing just gave a leg up to Twilights and their non-Solaroid equivalents by the way.
And since I don't think they're going to be sharing all their secrets, that is likely to have had macro-scale effects on the balance of power.

 

[Walker of the Yellow Path]

In this, the Golden Children seem significantly more limited by design.
Fecundity is drastically lower than Dragonbloods, as is their power-cap, and they are cut off from the possibility of Exaltation.

If anything, their lack of a hun-po would make them less of a threat IMO, because they don't come off as mortal, and more a weird demon-thing, or a construct.
Especially since they remained vastly more expensive to raise than a loyal Gens.
And not viable in the numbers that would actually threaten the million-strong Dragonblood host.

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That's true, but the true problem is that the Solars were attempting to replace the Terrestrial Exalted. I mean, if I was an elemental super soldier, and I learned that my bosses were trying to create EVEN BETTER super soldiers from their kids, I'd be pretty fucking pissed at my bosses.

 

[Gnarker]

If you want to run that story, I'm going to leave a space for it in the rules - but I'm not going to offer it up or normalise it.

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If you say so. Just be aware that "Even when they manage - beyond hope - to conceive a child, a miscarriage invariably ensues." certainly doesn't sound like it's mechanically supported. So I'd still advise that you at least change the bolded word to 'almost invariably' or something, if you don't want more people than me to misunderstand and bug you about this as I did. If you want to be more elaborate, something like 'no examples of the children surviving are known; perhaps it is impossible entirely' and make it clear that you're leaving it up to the gaming group to decide itself. Either way, I'm done now.

EDIT: I mean, damn. Alchemicals also don't get to have children. At all. Without horrific tumour-cancer-blasphemy. Abyssals, the guys who are literally channelling all the walking corpse and gothic stuff, are getting off easy on that front, despite the fact there are far more examples in fiction of machines reproducing than dead things.

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Point of order; Alchemicals do not have a whole lot of continuity to when they used to be living baseline humans even compared to Abyssals, and even then they can almost certainly arrange for the required equipment to be installed if the wellbeing of the state would require it, just like their other abilities would be.

A homebrew writeup of the children of the Exalted should not be expected to fix an entire kind of Exalt.

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I'm not expecting him to do anything like that. I'm hoping that he'll make a tiny change of two words in order to reduce ambiguity that seems to categorically forbid an option that he does not seem categorically opposed to remaining open, even if in personal play he's not going to use it.

 

[Roadie]

For thinking about stupid mechanics tricks, would it be worth making a distinction for non-Charm dice and non-Charm successes in notation, since they get used so much?

Currently:
+3, +3s, +3 as non-Charm dice, +3s as non-Charm successes

Possible:
+3, +3s, +3n, +3ns
or
+3d, +3s, +3nd, +3ns

(It is really dumb that I even have to think about this)

 

[uju32]

That's true, but the true problem is that the Solars were attempting to replace the Terrestrial Exalted. I mean, if I was an elemental super soldier, and I learned that my bosses were trying to create EVEN BETTER super soldiers from their kids, I'd be pretty fucking pissed at my bosses.

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Oh, certainly.
Enough to go to war over it though? When said experiments turn out the equivalent of vanity projects?
Not so much.
Which is where my comment about fecundity comes into play. I think.

 

[Peanuckle]

The "easy" way for Abyssals to have children is to perform the conception, then extract the zygote and raise it in a growth vat in a living area. Keep it secret and stay away unless it needs attending to. Once it's developed it will be strong enough to resist your deathly presence.

 

[The Sandman]

I can think of one sort of child a high-Enlightenment Abyssal might be able to have without ignoring their themes: something akin to a widderslainte from M:tAs or a fetch from C:tL. Or a creature of the Nothing, if you know L5R stuff.

An empty being. A human-shaped hole in reality. A hungry ghost that retains its intellect without any increase in sanity. A Blindsight vampire. Kyubey.

Abyssal children, much like the Neverborn, are things that should not be and yet somehow still are.

If you don't want to spawn an abomination that makes the world worse simply by existing, adopt. It's not as if orphans are a rare commodity in Creation, especially when you're an Abyssal and thus optimized for making more.

 

[Bursting Eagerness Soul]

Chiming in on the topic of Alchemical children here. Standard and Collosus levels of Alchemical development pretty clearly don't have kids, but once they become a city it can get kind of fuzzy. If you have ever something like a Genesis Vat grown into your city-body, you could theoretically influence the children grown there into becoming weird cyborg spirits.

 

[Aleph]

Oh, certainly.
Enough to go to war over it though? When said experiments turn out the equivalent of vanity projects?
Not so much.
Which is where my comment about fecundity comes into play. I think.

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No, it was more the way that their vanity projects were invariably promoted over better-qualified Terrestrials who'd trained their whole lives for the roles, and quite often had groups of gorgeous Solar-made automata assigned to them instead of Dragonblooded troops.

Hence, you know. Marama's Fell.