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General Exalted Thread

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notthepenguins said:
I dunno, Daryl Davis is a real guy. It should be possible to do, though certainly not in the "bam my minion now" sense.
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I didn't say it should be impossible, I said it should not be the example of "this is what 5 dots in an ability lets you do". Swinging a Wyld Hunt member takes a lot of very careful RP, a long character arc for the DB in question, finding one that has doubts you can play off already, and possibly even some real-life psychology being put to use. It's anything but trivial, it's best done gradually with a lot of Excellency use, and it comes with considerable risk of them repeatedly trying to stab you in the face.
 
vicky_molokh said:
Do Sidereals & Co. have the tools to detect (and defeat!) Solars all over the caves of Creation? Did they have any such tools during the Usurpation?
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All over the caves of Creation? Not really. Not practically, at least, that's why the Usurpation exploited the Calibration Feast, when so many Solars were in one place. They can totally stomp on Solars who start building super-infrastructure in the open though, which is, you know, why that hasn't happened since the Usurpation. Because infrastructure is and should be, vulnerable.
 
Aleph said:
Filial Wisdom: "... okay, okay. How about this one?"
Filial Wisdom: "Ahem." *assumes dramatic pose*
Filial Wisdom: "Swording, oh swording,
"the swordiest maraudering,
"I like it a lot."
Filial Wisdom: *gasps for breath, sweat pouring down his forehead from the intense mental labour*
Filial Wisdom: "So? What do you think?"
Feral Dragon King: "RAAAAWR!" *murderleap*
Filial Wisdom: *stabs it a hundred times in under a second and cuts its head off*
Filial Wisdom: "Crap, really?" *counts* "Dammit, you're right! Eight syllables, not seven! Okay, let's see..."
Filial Wisdom: *bites lip and frowns in intense concentration, bends over the paper again*
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Great, now my next Solar concept is going to be one that fights with Vogon poetry.
 
The assumption of infinite-experience Charm sets existing as utterly featureless singular actors makes these kinds of discussions really tiresome after a while.

"Assume every possible potential Solar Charm and combination thereof faced off against its thematic-equivalent in Charms from anyother splat. Who wins?

Batman, obviously."
 
On a tangentially-related note, I found this gem while looking through Borgstrom quotes on the Usurpation.

But a *lot* of things failed during the Usurpation. I don't think VBoS on the Curse Virtue stood out. :)

SIDEREAL: I use Blinding the Boar.
SOLAR: I use Arrogant Smile of the Unconquered Sun.
SIDEREAL: Can he DO that?
SOLAR: TING.
SIDEREAL: Okay, fine, Avoidance Kata.
SOLAR: Hm. The Sidereal isn't here. Confrontation Kata!
SIDEREAL: Wait, I thought I wasn't here!
SOLAR: Now you know better.
SIDEREAL: Conclusion-Pursuing Approach!
SOLAR: I Am The Conclusion Stance.
SIDEREAL: Now you're just making Charms up.
SOLAR: I had spare xp.
SIDEREAL: Where are my Dragon-Blooded? I was *supposed* to have thirty Dragon-Blooded and a fleet of level 5 self-motivated artifact guns, you know.
SOLAR: Would you like to come back later?
SIDEREAL: That's usually what it means when I use Avoidance Kata.
SOLAR: Oh! Sorry.
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Scia said:
If you remove infrastructure that means that every sidereal could build a soulbreaker orb
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More problematically, it means that Lunars can build soulbreaker orbs. As major cities on the Blessed Isle aren't regularly erased from existence, we can assume that this isn't the case.

Though "Lunar terrorists have uncovered an ancient superweapon and are trying to smuggle it onto the Blessed Isle" would make for a great Sidereals scenario.
 
Jon Chung said:
That one is one of the more annoying ones, since it is exceptionally easy to read this as "Oh, all the overpowered insanity I put into the Sidereal Charmset is balanced if you write custom charms to counter them. Good luck, O baby game developer!".
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I'd read it more as "Elder Solars are bullshit because they can build (and often have built) counters to my core tricks and I can't hold up in a straight fight," myself.
 
Anasurimbor said:
More problematically, it means that Lunars can build soulbreaker orbs. As major cities on the Blessed Isle aren't regularly erased from existence, we can assume that this isn't the case.

Though "Lunar terrorists have uncovered an ancient superweapon and are trying to smuggle it onto the Blessed Isle" would make for a great Sidereals scenario.
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See also MaHaSuchis Warstrider legion one paragraph below as a example.
 
So has anyone played Qwixalted before? So far I've been reading through it, Daiklaved's version, and I like what I see as it's light on the rules and seems to be intuitive.
 
Question: if solars (and lunars) can't build significant infrastructures in Creation without painting a target on their back, how about doing it in Malfeas or the Underworld? What are the possible complications of trying to carve out small (and some not so small) kingdoms of their own in these two realms?
 
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Alasnuyo said:
Question: if solars (and lunars) can't build significant infrastructures in Creation without painting a target on their back, how about doing it in Malfeas or the Underworld? What are the possible complications of trying to carve out small (and some not so small) kingdoms of their own in these two realms?
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Significant infrastructures do exist in Malfeas and the Underworld. They belong to Third Circles and Deathlords respectively. I'm certain they will be happy to let a Solar build all the infrastructure he wants in there... just sign these loyalty oaths...
 
Alasnuyo said:
Question: if solars (and lunars) can't build significant infrastructures in Creation without painting a target on their back, how about doing it in Malfeas or the Underworld? What are the possible complications of trying to carve out small (and some not so small) kingdoms of their own in these two realms?
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Aaron Peori notes the political side.

From the purely physical side, your infrastructure planning in Malfeas needs to account for the risk associated with being in the same plane of existence as the Silent Wind and the Black Boar.
 
Alasnuyo said:
Question: if solars (and lunars) can't build significant infrastructures in Creation without painting a target on their back, how about doing it in Malfeas or the Underworld? What are the possible complications of trying to carve out small (and some not so small) kingdoms of their own in these two realms?
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Post the Empress Vanishing, they can create infrastructure, as the RDG is unable to be activated.

Now Aaron Peori and Grommile pointed out the stuff for Malfeas.

The underworld on the otherhand, at least canon wise, would be a place that you could set up infrastructure, however, you would be unable to respire essence, and they fact that the Deathlords and other high power ghosts are rolling around could rip your infrastructure apart.

The Next problem is that to access the Underworld would require a Shadowland, most commonly formed by mass Slaughter in a short time period. depending on the location and size of the Shadowland, it could run from be very valuable to the Abyssals and Wrights, to not at all. In general the Shadowlands you would want would be the same the Abyssals would want and conflict.

Also, the Underworld does bad shit to mortals (like gradually sicken them, over generations weaken the bloodlines), now more importantly, while you would be safe from the RDG, if you used Mortals as your Staff and Retainers, the Underworld is in general regarded as a No Good, Very Bad Place to be.
 
Matthew G said:
Post the Empress Vanishing, they can create infrastructure, as the RDG is unable to be activated.
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The RDG isn't a real threat for like 99% of Anathema. The costs are way too high for something that can be accomplished by a mortal thaumaturgist with the right supplies (hint: explosives).
The actual threats faced by Anathema are Wyld Hunts and faithful adherents of the Immaculate Faith. You don't even really need to destroy infrastructure to cause damage; a major disruption can cause problems years down the line with the after-effects.
 
notthepenguins said:
I'd read it more as "Elder Solars are bullshit because they can build (and often have built) counters to my core tricks and I can't hold up in a straight fight," myself.
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Which is fair, but given that elder Solars don't currently exist and the actual targets for hostile use of Sidereal Charms are player Solars due to the setting ensuring it, it's therefore reasonable to evaluate the Sidereal Charmset in the worst-case scenario of Elder NPC Sidereal vs Newbie Solar PC Circle.

That quote used to often be used in the context of this scenario to defend the as-written fact that the Elder NPC Sidereal will curbstomp said PCs with utter contemptuous ease, something along the lines of "Yeah these Charms are insane, but you can make custom charms and they can't! Make custom charms to defend yourself!".
 
Jon Chung said:
That quote used to often be used in the context of this scenario to defend the as-written fact that the Elder NPC Sidereal will curbstomp said PCs with utter contemptuous ease, something along the lines of "Yeah these Charms are insane, but you can make custom charms and they can't! Make custom charms to defend yourself!".
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Oh. Yeah, that's stupid.
 
notthepenguins said:
Oh. Yeah, that's stupid.
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Amusingly, this is one of the core problems with the Sidereal Charmset, despite how much I like it as a standalone thing. One of the balance factors used for it is that it is closed to custom charms invented by players, that they have only the tools they have and cannot make more save through martial arts or sorcery... and that this was worth concrete power, as flexibility could be traded for strength.

Except, the value of this power varies wildly group by group, does it not? How much power is the ability to make custom charms worth? Each GM's sense of homebrew balance is different. Most GMs are terrible at it.
 
So, I've been thinking about dice-rolling systems.

If Exalted didn't use the Storyteller dice mechanic, but still had to have something like Excellencies (e.g. linear, scalable boosting of rolls with predictable results), what dice mechanic would you want it to use?

Alternately (I may have mentioned it before) I had some vague thoughts about static numbers a la Nobilis, with Excellencies replacing how MPs boost stats in that game.

Consider this general theorywank, with the aim being to keep something resembling a 1 to 5 stats scale without actually regularly rolling 15 to 20 dice.
 
Well, that depends on your goal.

Do you want a bell curve? How flat of one? How much do you want randomness to determine the outcome of conflicts? How much do you want resource allocation to do so?
 
Jon Chung said:
Amusingly, this is one of the core problems with the Sidereal Charmset, despite how much I like it as a standalone thing. One of the balance factors used for it is that it is closed to custom charms invented by players, that they have only the tools they have and cannot make more save through martial arts or sorcery... and that this was worth concrete power, as flexibility could be traded for strength.

Except, the value of this power varies wildly group by group, does it not? How much power is the ability to make custom charms worth? Each GM's sense of homebrew balance is different. Most GMs are terrible at it.
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It is a bit of a bigger cost for Sidereals than it would be for Solar's as their charms tend to be a lot more specific and weird than that of other exalted.

They have a small toolbox of very specific tools they have to force to fit every situation rather than the very general nature of the solar charmset.

The most dangerous thing they have going for them is secrecy and astrology charms which will fuck them over if used more than sparingly. They are great for the mysterious shadow conspiracy and advisory roles but not as direct threats. They know this and generally don't oppose other celestials directly for that reason barring overpowered sidereal martial arts that shouldn't have been written they can't keep up with their peers in a direct conflict even with a moderate essence and xp advantage.

Good Sidereals use other people as their weapons not swords. The bronze faction wields dragonbloods in the form of the Wyld Hunt and the gold faction is trying to get some Solars to wield.
 
I think I need to simplify my posts more or something. What does this have to do with the wisdom (or lack thereof) of trading away an undefined, wildly group-dependent value for a concrete mechanical power boost?

Remember, the game system needs to work for everybody, and does not contain anything even approaching a custom charm construction system in any incarnation.
 
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