General Exalted Thread

[Side Item]

So I'm in the brainstorming stages for another artifact + evocations. Twin warfans, blue and white jade, tentatively titled The Ballad of Earth and Sky. Sand is a definite theme, and I was thinking of adding illusions/mirage to the mix.

In the 3E section on the MM, it mentions that blue jade can "anticipate the intent of opponents or even briefly glimpse their thoughts," while white jade "grants calm and mental clarity, and mesmerizes opponents."

I'm a bit fuzzy on DB mechanics and 2E treatment of the MM, but are these established parts of white and blue jade, or something new added to facilitate new Evocations. Mostly wondering if there are any artifacts/powers from the past I can cannibalize and/or take inspiration from.

 

[uju32]

Another power armor question:
Does it have to look like power armor?
Or can it look like, say, Nanoha's getup when she's gone all Magical Girl?

I mean, I know Transformative Armor(from Scroll of Fallen Races) can look like anything the wearer wants; not sure if the precedent holds for plate armor and the power armors.

 

[horngeek]

Another power armor question:
Does it have to look like power armor?
Or can it look like, say, Nanoha's getup when she's gone all Magical Girl?

I mean, I know Transformative Armor(from Scroll of Fallen Races) can look like anything the wearer wants; not sure if the precedent holds for plate armor and the power armors.

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Artifacts can look like whatever the hell you want them to, technically.

 

[landcollector]

not sure if the precedent holds for plate armor and the power armors.

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I don't think so.

 

[Aaron Peori]

Another power armor question:
Does it have to look like power armor?

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Yes. Or at least, it has to look like you are heavily protected against physical harm and ready to Start Some Shit. It also has to look obviously magical, and constructed of magical materials so that anyone who sees you wearing it knows you are a magical being of some kind.

Otherwise it should cost more.

However, 2e armor is overcosted. The power armours from Wonders are okayish, but halve the costs (round up) of all corebook armour.

 

[Aleph]

In general, you can roughly split Artifact armour into three categories.

There's High First Age shit, which is, yes, basically Nanoha-esque (still obviously armour, but all Essence fields and Barrier Jackets and Essence cannon staffs and stuff). They are a) very rare and b) hilariously hearthstone- and Maintenance-expensive oh my fucking god.

There's Shogunate shit, which bears reasonable similarity to the sort of power armour you see in, say, Warframe or Crysis. Less abstract than the High First Age, but still pretty rad. Also expensive, but more common and less cripplingly impossible to keep working (seriously, if you have a bit of HFA magitech, you are probably spending a considerable fraction of your party's resources in keeping it in working order - they were built with the assumption that you have admin access to Deliberative infrastructure).

And then there's Age of Sorrows stuff, which pretty much tops out at Renaissance armour in design, just made out of blingin' magical materials and suchlike. That's by far the easiest to get your hands on and maintain, but it doesn't have anything like as many sweet tricks as the first two kinds.

... oh, and there's Helltech, which is sort of hard to classify, might fall into any of the above three categories depending on where it's from (Blood Ape superheavy plate made from Malfean Lead is type 3, whereas Ligier's personally-crafted Undefeated Emerald Aegis is totally type 1). You should, however, probably be aware that it may a) actually be a demon, b) try to eat you or c) both.

 

[uju32]

Artifacts can look like whatever the hell you want them to, technically.

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That was my opinion.
Just wanted to know if there was definitive canon evidence one way or the other.

I don't think so.

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Yes. Or at least, it has to look like you are heavily protected against physical harm and ready to Start Some Shit. It also has to look obviously magical, and constructed of magical materials so that anyone who sees you wearing it knows you are a magical being of some kind.
Otherwise it should cost more.

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Why?

I mean, I get the obviously magical part.
I can even buy the need to look covered in the main.
But when you're investing 4-5 dots into one artifact, one would think that appearance would be one of those things you'd get to pick.

However, 2e armor is overcosted. The power armours from Wonders are okayish, but halve the costs (round up) of all corebook armour.

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Yeah, I know.

In general, you can roughly split Artifacts into three categories.

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So the more conventional it looks, the less upkeep and power it requires for operation.
Okay, this makes a sort of sense.
Of course, First Age gear is generally statted to require zero upkeep; fixing it if/when it gets damaged is another matter though.
As is the power issue.
Thank you.

 

[Aaron Peori]

Why?

I mean, I get the obviously magical part.
I can even buy the need to look covered in the main.
But when you're investing 4-5 dots into one artifact, one would think that appearance would be one of those things you'd get to pick.

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Because armor that you can walk into the Guild Merchant Prince's encampment without causing anyone to raise an eyebrow has an inherent strategic advantage to armor that is going to cause the mercenaries to cross their pikes in front of you and ask you to leave your obvious war gear outside before the negotiations thank you.

There is a reason that you need a Charm to be able to do stuff like "store my Daiklave Elsewhere", because trying to walk into a Fair Folk court with it is going to raise more hackles than without. The same thing applies to armor. Wearing armor is a declaration that you expect to be attacked. Which, generally, is a declaration of hostility in most polite company. The exception to this is Dynastic Society, because wearing your combat armor around as formal wear is considered entirely appropriate (if a little gauche) there. But that's because Dragonblooded praise military service above all others. For almost everyone else, wearing superheavy plate to a dinner party is like walking into the White House with a loaded shotgun. It's... just not something people are going to let happen.

If you want your power armor to look like fields of semi-transparent light? Go ahead, but it still looks like armor because if it doesn't, than it should cost more.

 

[Kylar]

Ah power armor. Or my more accurate response: fucking power armor.

Ok, first and foremost: power armor is not, by any stretch of imagination remotely balanced. This hold true on an internal level: the Dragon armors are quite frankly objectively better then the Celestial Battle Armors, a few very broken tricks the CBA can pull aside. Then again, we are talking about WotLA, so this is no surprise. Note this was true even more true before 2.5, but still holds true even with the halve costed mundane armor.

The second thing is maintenance is so poorly implemented that no one uses it, so it tends not to actually be a balance factor. I'll see if I can dig up my fix/analysis I did at one point.

The next thing is that, hanks in no small part to WotLA, people tend to automatically associate power armor with tech aesthetics. Not necessarily a bad thing, but sometime I really, really wish there were more things like the Berserker Armor from Berserk, or Incursio from Akame ga Kill. Or if you want to go really off the wall, anything made of Life Fibers from Kill la Kill. This probably ties into why my favorite bit of power armor in the game is the DK Obsidian Sheath, despite its relative mechanical inferiority: the fact its obsidian, gold and crystals and not 'obviously scifi power armor running off magic' is really cool to me. This also holds true for things like gunzosha armor, which is life force eating ninja armor, and not so much straight mechanical assistance.

Nanoha style gear wise, you probably want to take a page from Evocations, and model each 'mode' (armor, canon, drill gauntlet) as a separate things you can purchase, all linked to a core artifact. If you just want that Barrier Jacket, you probably should start with the Discreet Essence Armor or Infinite Resplendence Amulet, and build from there.

 

[azoicennead]

If you just want that Barrier Jacket, you probably should start with the Discreet Essence Armor or Infinite Resplendence Amulet, and build from there.

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Ah-ha! Another artifact for me to bribe Scia into fixing go on a quest to find what I need to fix!
(Also hammer out stats for.)
(Oh, god, my poor mote pools. Thank god for my overdrives.)

 

[uju32]

Because armor that you can walk into the Guild Merchant Prince's encampment without causing anyone to raise an eyebrow has an inherent strategic advantage to armor that is going to cause the mercenaries to cross their pikes in front of you and ask you to leave your obvious war gear outside before the negotiations thank you.

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I can buy that argument for <3 dot artifacts.
But for an investment of four or five dots?

I mean, if for example you're investing in a CBA, why shouldn't you should be able to make it look like a tuxedo or a ballroom gown if it floats your fancy?
Overtly magical appearing? Sure, that's fair enough.
And I would think, enough reason to be wary for any security guards.

There is a reason that you need a Charm to be able to do stuff like "store my Daiklave Elsewhere", because trying to walk into a Fair Folk court with it is going to raise more hackles than without. The same thing applies to armor. Wearing armor is a declaration that you expect to be attacked. Which, generally, is a declaration of hostility in most polite company.

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Um, to the best of my understanding, Fair Folk gear is often supposed to dissociate form and function.
And there are instances that contradict this philosophy: Deadly Transformation Armor(4 dots, WotLA), the aforementioned Transformative Armor(2 dots), and Leaf Armor(1 dot), both in Scroll of Fallen Races

Spoiler: Transformative Armor

TRANSFORMATIVE CLOTHING AND ARMOR (ARTIFACT • TO ••)
Some of the more vain Artisans wished to make certain that they were always properly dressed for any occasion. To meet this need, skilled crafters wove the first suits of transformative clothing. This clothing is made from an Essence-sensitive fabric including threads of spun jade and moonsilver. In its basic form, it resembles a finely made tunic of synthetic silk. When the wearer spends one mote, however, she can cause the fabric to shape itself to her will, expanding and contracting the weave, altering its color, texture and shape to fit her precise specifications. It can become everything from a single glove or hat to an elaborate and multi-layered suit of elaborate courtly garb. The wearer can also spend one mote to cause the garment to almost instantly clean itself and repair any damage. This transformation is exceptionally rapid, requiring only a miscellaneous action (5, -1 DV). To either duplicate a garment she has seen before or design one of her own, the wearer must make a (Wits + Craft [Wood]) roll, with a failure indicating that the garment looks significantly different from the desired result. This artifact can duplicate any appearance it has ever held without requiring a roll, however. An ordinary suit of this clothing is a one-dot Artifact that can protect the wearer from heat and cold but has no value as armor. Artisans who wish to be able to protect themselves from attack even in situations where wearing armor is not appropriate (or who insist on looking stylish even on the field of battle) often wear a two-dot version of this artifact. Such armor always provides the listed bonus, regardless of its current form. Suits of transformative armor have all of the capabilities of a normal suit of transformative clothing. Because they are made from threads made from several magical materials, they gain no magical material bonuses

Spoiler: Leaf Armor

LEAF ARMOR (ARTIFACT •)
This suit of armor consists of interlocking and overlapping living leaves the size of a human palm that appear ribbed with gold. When not attuned, this hauberk appears to be made from unusually resilient autumn leaves. However, if the wearer commits two motes of Essence, the armor appears to be an exquisitely made garment of green, living leaves that fits the wearer exceptionally well. The leaves are imbued with traces of orichalcum, so this armor provides the appropriate armor bonuses for orichalcum.

This hold true on an internal level: the Dragon armors are quite frankly objectively better then the Celestial Battle Armors, a few very broken tricks the CBA can pull aside.

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Really? Huh.
I was under the impression the CBA was clearly superior.
What am I missing?

The second thing is maintenance is so poorly implemented that no one uses it, so it tends not to actually be a balance factor. I'll see if I can dig up my fix/analysis I did at one point.

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Also, First Age stuff tends not to require maintenance.
Repair if damaged, sure, but not routine maintenance.

This probably ties into why my favorite bit of power armor in the game is the DK Obsidian Sheath, despite its relative mechanical inferiority: the fact its obsidian, gold and crystals and not 'obviously scifi power armor running off magic' is really cool to me.

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I like that one too.
It's just a tad underwhelming for a four dot artifact, if not as bad as the Armor of the Unseen Assassin.

 

[Legion1771]

What kind of tier does Orichalcum belong to in Exalted?

 

[Walker of the Yellow Path]

What kind of tier does Orichalcum belong to in Exalted?

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Depends on the Artifact. Orichalcum can be in anything from Age of Sorrows Artifacts to High First Age Artifacts. It's just a Solar Aspected Magical Material.

 

[azoicennead]

What kind of tier does Orichalcum belong to in Exalted?

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It's a magical material.
So are jade, moonsilver, soulsteel, starmetal, and adamant.

Orichalcum itself doesn't, AFAIK, belong to any other tier. The things you make out of it do. Admittedly, it being the preferred metal of the solars means it's more likely to be used in more powerful artifacts, but that's a matter of material resonance and not actual power.

 

[Aaron Peori]

I can buy that argument for <3 dot artifacts.
But for an investment of four or five dots?

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Then its not going to be as good as straight combat armor of the same level, even if its not a complete dot higher. Like, if 4 dot armor is 3 dot armor with two magical benefits, one of those is "can look like mundane clothing" and the other is whatever.

Overtly magical appearing? Sure, that's fair enough.
And I would think, enough reason to be wary for any security guards.

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Magical clothing is not actually unheard of.

Um, to the best of my understanding, Fair Folk gear is often supposed to dissociate form and function.

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No, the various Invocation Charms specifically call out that stuff that is Invoked through the Charm may appear different but is still definitely the same kind of thing. A set of armor Invoked via Elemental (Water) may be a suit of shifting liquid plates and one via Emotional (Lust) may be constructed of pink-tinted transparent glass but both are clearly armor.

And there are instances that contradict this philosophy: Deadly Transformation Armor(4 dots, WotLA), the aforementioned Transformative Armor(2 dots), and Leaf Armor(1 dot), both in Scroll of Fallen Races

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All of those are (or should be) less powerful than just having the same rating in pure defensive armor.

 

[Kylar]

Really? Huh.
I was under the impression the CBA was clearly superior.
What am I missing?

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Mostly, its a matter of running the numbers. Dragon Armor has better soak, better combat options, better flight, better strength boosts, etc. And the 5 dot version has the mote battery. Really the only things the CBA beats it at is the 'loltrumped' function against the Dragon armor cloak, healing, movement, and Oblivion's Panoply. None of those are particularly balanced (ei, you can hear STs glaring at you if you try to take them). Overall, your getting a lot more bang for your buck with a Dragon Armor compared to the CBA.

Also, First Age stuff tends not to require maintenance.
Repair if damaged, sure, but not routine maintenance.

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Yes.

This is dumb as hell, IMHO, given the point of magitech is it breaks down, but that is indeed the case.

I like that one too.
It's just a tad underwhelming for a four dot artifact, if not as bad as the Armor of the Unseen Assassin.

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Yeah, AotUA kinda... hilariously over priced. Still, best equipment bonus to stealth in the game. That counts for something!

Also, Obsidian Sheath is fairly reasonably balanced, for 2.5: its a bit better then the 2 dot armors, no penalties to mobility, strength and speed boosts, Ori MM bonuses, and no maintenance. It and the Myrmidon Carapace are honestly better balance points then anything out of WotLA.

 

[samdamandias]

if you have a bit of HFA magitech, you are probably spending a considerable fraction of your party's resources in keeping it in working order

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Well, going by Tiger Shark armor you can make everything solid-state and have better stats for one more dot. Worth it, in one of my character's case, since Serpent can't do diddly squat with magitech. Except perhaps murder something exceedingly well.

Because armor that you can walk into the Guild Merchant Prince's encampment without causing anyone to raise an eyebrow has an inherent strategic advantage to armor that is going to cause the mercenaries to cross their pikes in front of you and ask you to leave your obvious war gear outside before the negotiations thank you.

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Discreet Essence Armor is a handy thing to have.

Ah-ha! Another artifact for me to bribe Scia into fixing go on a quest to find what I need to fix!
(Oh, god, my poor mote pools. Thank god for my overdrives.)

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Hey! The GM gave everybody who showed up to the first session HFA solid-state Discreet Essence Armor that stacks with regular armor, despite the entire point of DEA being that it doesn't count as armor and doesn't stack with armor.

 

[uju32]

Magical clothing is not actually unheard of.

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Overtly glowy magical gear should put everyone on their guard.
The rule of thumb for mortals is "If it glows, run".
Or at least get someone who can vet the damn thing.

All of those are (or should be) less powerful than just having the same rating in pure defensive armor.

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Not necessarily.

Leaf Armor looks like well-fitted clothes(made of leaves) when attuned, and it's a one dot artifact with 5L/5B soak and Hardness 2.
Transformative Armor(2 dots) has a Hardness rating of 2, soak of 6L/4B, no Mobility or Fatigue penalty in addition to it's ability to look like anything and maintain protection.
Silken Armor(2 dots) has soak of 5L/3B, no Hardness, and -1 Mobility when not attuned, and can be combined with other armor.

Deadly Transformative Armor is 4 dots, looks like a reinforced breastplate when not activated, and trades 5L of soak for +5 to Strength vis a vis Dragon armor.
And it has the same Hardness to boot.
It compares quite well to Armor of Elemental Innurement, which is also a 4 dot artifact with no CBA lineage.

Mostly, its a matter of running the numbers.

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You have a point there about CBA features.
I didn't realize Dragon armor didn't get healing as a feature though, when gunzosha did.

 

[linkhyrule5]

The obvious Malfeas reference is that he has arms. (WTF?)

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Well, insofar as you could call Malfeas' own worldbody his home, he is certainly home-stuck...

 

[Aaron Peori]

Well, insofar as you could call Malfeas' own worldbody his home, he is certainly home-stuck...

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I think you're mixing references here. Unless that webcomic heavily references Aberrant.

 

[NonSequtur]

The obvious Malfeas reference is that he has arms.

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I am now imagining all of Malfeas' sub-souls as eufiber clad posthuman celebrities.

I think you're mixing references here. Unless that webcomic heavily references Aberrant.

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Nah, there's just an arms joke in it. Mixed references.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Also, First Age stuff tends not to require maintenance.
Repair if damaged, sure, but not routine maintenance.

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Only if the design goal was to avoid the need for maintenance.

The Solar Exalted of the High First Age had a ridiculously rich and powerful socio-economic infrastructural backing them up, and none of them expected that Age to end. Why design artifacts with Ragnarok Proofing in mind when you don't expect Ragnarok? Most of them would thus build ridiculously expensive and costly toys out of boredom.

A few of them DID focus on making stuff that didn't require maintenance. And yes, any First Age, Solar-made artifact designed to survive anything would, in fact, survive anything.

It also wouldn't provide nearly as much Bang For Buck as the trophy pieces of the other Solar Exalted going hog-wild with their creations in an attempt to out-do each other.


As to magical girl outfits like Nanoha's Barrier Jacket, there's also Pearlescent Filigree Defense, of Dreaming Pearl Courtesan Style.

Pearlescent Filigree Defense
Cost: 1m; Mins: Martial Arts 2, Essence 1; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Mastery
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: None
An iridescent sheen comes over the martial artist's garments as Essence enfolds them, turning silk as strong as steel. Any clothing the martial artist wears while this Charm is active is treated as mortal light armor. This is explicitly compatible with this style, but not with any other styles that forbid armor. In addition, whenever the martial artist is hit by an attack, she may spend up to her (Appearance) in motes, adding one point to her armored soak against that attack for each mote spent this way.

Mastery: The first time the martial artist uses this Charm to defend against a decisive attack in a fight, she reveals the supernal resilience of her seemingly vulnerable figure, gaining hardness 10 against the attack as well as a surge of three motes that can be spent to add to the armor's soak, or on similar effects, such as many Solar Resistance Charms. These motes vanish at the end of the scene if not spent.


Using a Charm like this represents how mages in Lyrical Nanoha can make and maintain Barrier Jackets without Devices (artifacts) at all. Just like that spell, this Charm is also a dirt-simple, universally-available trick.

Using the Form of the Style upgrades the "mortal light armor" effect to "artifact light armor" levels of protection, in addition to letting your magical girl stunt cute little energy projections from her hands ("needles of nacreous Essence spiking from her fingernails", which can strike out to short range).

 

[uju32]

Only if the design goal was to avoid the need for maintenance.

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Not necessarily.
No CBA requires routine maintenance; designed by Autobot after all.
First Age Immaculate Dragon armor( rated 5 dots) don't either.
Neither do Gunzosha and Sentinel Defence armor made in the First Age(rated as 4 dots).

It seems to be more about the workmanship than the design goals, because First Age gear doesn't seem to be designed to require maintenance.
Repair, sure, but not maintenance, not at the 4-5 dot level.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Not necessarily.

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I'm not talking about what bill of goods Wonders of the Lost Age sold.

I'm talking about what makes narrative sense.

 

[uju32]

I'm not talking about what bill of goods Wonders of the Lost Age sold.
I'm talking about what makes narrative sense.

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I'm not seeing it to be honest.
The egoticism displayed by Solar god-kings would suggest that stuff turned out by Solar artisans and their assistants would be built to the most exacting standards.
A requirement for routine maintenance seems quite at variance with how they've been portrayed.
The only place I would see it allowed would be with cutting-edge gear like PSVs, which have yet to be fully figured out or rolled out.