They failed to learn their lessons from 2e, and also seemingly forgot the innovation made in the Infernals book.
General Exalted Thread
Sorry, I honestly thought you were joking and I gave an over the top response in return. My bad.
I also thought we were talking about Exegesis of the Distilled Form again, which I believe I debunked.Hokay, Sublime Transference is a charm that lets you switch silver points to gold, or gold to white, at a set exchange rate. Which, admittedly, can get you a doombot someday, provided you're really dedicated with your crafting.
Supreme Celestial Focus lets you spend gold points to learn other crafting fields. Which is entirely warranted, given how much of a point sink craft is otherwise.
Supreme Perfection of Craft lets you get more points, the more fields you mastered, provided you spend that time crafting and investing more of your points. Keep in mind, the point generator charms assume you're in your workshop, building this stuff up.
Honestly all the point generators seem to be less 'here's the path to ultimate power' and more 'here's a bone for investing soooo much effort into this system.' All the investment it takes to get to that point is a form of torture, as it relies on shoving yourself inside your lab working on shit while the rest of the group is out there doing things.
I'll agree though, that Craft and the MA divide are the weakest parts of the system, but even then they're better than 2E.
Debatable
Wonderful. How is CR determined? What numbers do I give to monsters I choose to make? Martial characters could always do shit, the question is 'are they worth playing compared to other classes,' and let's be real here, D&D 5E was nothing more than an attempt to undo the balance and tight design of D&D 4E to satisfy people unhappy with all the changes.
I'll admit, Craft is questionable. It functions but it's inelegant and difficult to work with. Even so, it's still better than what we got than 2E though, and it's still a decent system even if the emphasis is placed firmly on wringing as many successes out of as few dice as possible. The Martial Arts divide is fine, really, because they are worth the investment they require. Pound for pound, Single Point Shining in the Void is superior to conventional Solar Melee, especially when we factor in Mastery. The skill curve has most of the ability reqs at 5, but during charmbuy at Chargen the max your ability scores are at are 3, and you will more than know that you need abilities at 5 to get the rest of the charms further down the list. They're called Evocations and I'd really like to know what the problems are. Homebrew is sometimes less about compensating for difficulties and more about matching to your personal preferences: see also the people who tried desperately to get Fighters worth a damn in 3E while everyone else insisted that this is how it's meant to be.
As for Hundred Faced Stranger, much like differences over the Doombot charm, that's just, like, your opinion man.
And please read this if we want to compare PR gaffes on our favoritest editions. Holden gets a lot of people mad, but Mike Mearls has helped cause real and serious harm to people that goes far beyond rpgs: http://failforward.co.uk/post/93348768153/how-dungeons-and-dragons-is-endorsing-the-darkest
It's really only bloat when the Charms in question are purposeless filler. Charm bloat is caused BY having a few too-big Charms that swallow too much design space, resulting in all the remaining Charms being irrelevant trash that nobody wants to take.
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That's largely true, and would be quite cogent if the "3e sucks" contingent was backing up their position with detailed mathematical analysis. But they aren't.
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
We have a 5e thread http://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/dungeons-and-dragons-megathread.9893/ I'll be happy to answer all your 5e questions there once I am home and have my books to consult.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
We tried mathematical analysis.
Unfortunately the sheer clutter and complication made our calculators commit sucide.
No, I don't believe you did.
How do fingers and toes even do that?
I'm tempted to find the leak to analyze it for myself, but the better part of me wants to wait. I'm really happy to hear sorcery has been improved, and I'm also really eager to read the setting updates. It makes me regret slightly of redoing my Exalted fic before the updated fluff was dropped.
Jon Chung
=][=
What does this have to do with Omicron's statement? Is this a defense of his claims? If so, this isn't a particularly valid way to do so, since it doesn't particularly matter what the quality of the analysis here is when what is being looked at is the validity of the method of analysis itself.
The_Reptile_
Jolly Good
- Location
- THE PITS OF HELL. Also known as Connecticut.
Still empty. Still stupid. Harder to make shit up on a map when there's nothing on the map.
There are a lot of new areas in the West, and Wavecrest/Seahaven aren't treated as angry neighbors anymore (like when they are thousands of miles apart).
Ugggh am I just gonna bicker with everyone in this thread ;___;
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Thank goodness. That was always something that annoyed the hell out of me. Same with Gem and Paragon's rivalry. It's like Sparta having beef with the Picts over trade.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Yeah, its hard to be angry neighbours when your ships can practically be outraced by a man walking.
Not... exactly. Your post just stuck out, because you're defending the value of on-paper mathematical analysis of game systems. I agree that those are valuable, but I don't see why it's relevant, since I haven't seen much on-paper mathematical analysis of game systems in this thread. I guess it makes sense if you were defending on-paper mathematical analysis on general principle because Omicron seemed to be disparaging it, but I'm not sure that's what he meant. The criticisms of 3e he's been arguing about seem to be taking the form "3e sucks because system X is shit", which, in the absence of both in-play experience and detailed on-paper analysis, is not a very compelling argument - either would be valid, but as is, he's not wrong to disparage them.
As an aside to this statement, someone in one of the 4-chan threads did a simulation of two E4 Solars using these two charmsets going at it to see if that really was the case. The end result being that after just one round of combat, both Solars had blown their entire mote pools on a crazy series of clash attacks and whoever won the last clash was likely to kill the other outright.
So, not as cut and dry as all that.
The posts start here.
???
Assuming the average speed of a walking person is 3 miles per hour, even a pleasure yacht with no oarsman, no favorable wind, and no bonuses from the current will still goes twice as fast as a dude walking.
Actually it's interesting. Looking it up, an average ship journey in ancient times went at about 4 mph. Assuming the winds were good and the currents favorable, they could push that up to a wopping 6-7 mph!
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Journals/TAPA/82/Speed_under_Sail_of_Ancient_Ships*.html
This stuff was slooow
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- Location
- The end of all things
It quite obviously does not, and there is really no reasonable reading under which it would. You commit white XP instead of real(or Solar) XP and can recover white XP at the end of story. It's still extraordinarily powerful if you use it on your circle, but does not help you personally.
It appears that intended purpose of Exegesis of the Distilled Form was to allow a crafting Solar who uses teaching charms to maintain rough parity with their circle, who would otherwise have more XP than them. With that, it's existence is entirely reasonable.
I wouldn't bother. They clearly don't want to hear what it actually is, they want to feel vindicated about hating on Third for not being whatever the fuck it was that they wanted it to be.
No, I don't think that's completely fair. I do think they're giving 3rd a disservice though.
But I think overall we just have radically different preferences. I'm still gonna get mad when someone unironically recommends what I think is just a tweaked D&D 3.5 to me as a reasonable substitute for Exalted. And that goes for any Exalted edition, really.
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Well now, that's a bit of a rude and dickish thing to state.
You're right. I was being too hyperbolic there. I think I'm getting a little too heated.
EDIT: I deleted the comment in question. Thank you for commentary, landcollector.
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Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
There are plenty of reasonable readings under which it would, but lets avoid that argument at this time (after all its very easily fixed with errata). The fact that you can convert craft XP into charms for your fellow circlemates though really does strike me as bad design at this point, even as someone whose about to start a game as a Supernal using Lore based Teacher (but no crafting so I can resist temptation). Its a bit like the Lore charm that lets you start near immediately with potentially 40xp worth of evocations for yourself or a circlemate. They make excellent thematic statements, but I'm just unsure about whether or not the sheer potential power that can bring to the table quickly was warranted/needed (even if it makes me want to give the teacher Volcano cutter for shits and giggles).
I think we've established by now that I'm not quite a fan of Exegesis and the potential shennigans that it leads to. I honestly don't believe that there should be any overlap between crafting xp and actual experience at all, since the reward for being an excellent crafter in this edition is having plenty of awesome things that you've crafted (especially since you don't need to pay xp for story merits such as artifacts you've made in play). At the same time though, I admit that I am a fan of the way that Tireless Learner Method works, in that if you've put the time and effort into teaching a number of people you may actually come out ahead on experience wise but even then your rewarded in having plenty of trained loyal staff to do the tasks required of them.
At the same time though I think both charms have a bit of square peg round holes problem to them. Why does it cost the user XP to train someone in lore or occult while making Tiger Warriors and Sea Devils do not unless you feel like giving them additional almost supernatural abilities. If it didn't require them experience to do that teaching and training, then there wouldn't be any need for potentially abusive charms that can almost make it better then adventuring to do so.