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Well, they're back at least. Forums are preferable to Discord at this point for me because generally they get too big and then I have to endure the most annoying people on planet Earth because its blocking method sucks and everyone is thrown into the same big-ass pit. There was like four people I could not fucking stand on the Exalted Discord and being mean to them was against the rules, but thankfully none of them are here and, if I need to block someone here for my own sake, forum block functions usually make their posts entirely invisible instead of breaking the flow of chat with "WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THIS IDIOT YOU BLOCKED".
 
I needed a way to do mass Social for my latest Infernal so here you go (also a cool sword):

Memory of Shared Trauma

Cost: -; Mins: Essence 3; Type: None
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: Golden Years Tarnished Black
This charm acts as an upgrade to it's prerequisite, allowing GYTB to enhance performance based social attacks by prompting the crowd to remember some shared past event or memory. Only targets who have experienced that event are affected by this charm. An Infernal may sour the marriages of all in the crowd, reminiscing on his wedding night, but doing so would have no effect on those who have yet to be married.


Scalpel of Proper Thought (Artifact 3)

A reaper Daiklave of Pyrian Crystal, Proper Thought was originally part of a set of massive surgical tools used by SWLIHN to censure and… rehabilitate rebellious gods. The full set of tools was destroyed during the Divine Rebellion, yet the scalpel used to excise improper thoughts was kept as a trophy by an unknown Solar. After the first age it was lost, only to be found once more by a bandit of the Scavenger lands who turned it into a crude sword.
When striking an opponent, the wielder of this blade may choose to target an intimacy that they are aware of. To do so they roll damage as normal, but each HL of damage is instead treated as a scene spent eroding that intimacy.
Characters who lose an intimacy find they have no desire to reclaim it, the memory of their old feelings producing only a subdued apathy. They must spend 1WP per scene spent rebuilding said intimacy though they will not resist the attempts of others to do so.
 
Well, they're back at least. Forums are preferable to Discord at this point for me because generally they get too big and then I have to endure the most annoying people on planet Earth because its blocking method sucks and everyone is thrown into the same big-ass pit. There was like four people I could not fucking stand on the Exalted Discord and being mean to them was against the rules, but thankfully none of them are here and, if I need to block someone here for my own sake, forum block functions usually make their posts entirely invisible instead of breaking the flow of chat with "WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THIS IDIOT YOU BLOCKED".
Yeah, Discord isn't for me either. For me it's a combination of anxieties, how the internet makes increasingly everyone question everyone's motives and the fact it's interactions are expected to happen in real-time. You rarely have time to consider how someone might misrepresent your statement and because of the 'big-ass pit' you mentioned you're not among friends, not really.
 
I've made a lot of good friends on the fan Discord and it's generally been the community that helped me really get into the game. I like it there a lot, although at some point it's going to have some issues in the same way any large Discord is. The forums have basically been unusable for the entire time I've been into Exalted, weirdly enough.

There was like four people I could not fucking stand on the Exalted Discord and being mean to them was against the rules, but thankfully none of them are here
Thank you, Sunny, you were definitely not in my bottom four Exalted Discord users either (Please read this in the tone of a joke, I'm not trying to be particularly cutting).
 
The answer was 17 by the way, 17 people messaged me to say that the forums were broken.

Exalted - Onyx Path Forums

The tale of a forgotten mythic age, a time when spirits walked openly among men, the world was flat and floated atop a sea of chaos, and the restless dead roamed on moonless nights.

If anyone here's actually missed them.

Mostly I missed the homebrew stuff that was hosted there and nowhere else. There are definitely some really cool ideas that call those forums home.
 
I needed a way to do mass Social for my latest Infernal so here you go (also a cool sword):

Memory of Shared Trauma

Cost: -; Mins: Essence 3; Type: None
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: Golden Years Tarnished Black
This charm acts as an upgrade to it's prerequisite, allowing GYTB to enhance performance based social attacks by prompting the crowd to remember some shared past event or memory. Only targets who have experienced that event are affected by this charm. An Infernal may sour the marriages of all in the crowd, reminiscing on his wedding night, but doing so would have no effect on those who have yet to be married.


Scalpel of Proper Thought (Artifact 3)

A reaper Daiklave of Pyrian Crystal, Proper Thought was originally part of a set of massive surgical tools used by SWLIHN to censure and… rehabilitate rebellious gods. The full set of tools was destroyed during the Divine Rebellion, yet the scalpel used to excise improper thoughts was kept as a trophy by an unknown Solar. After the first age it was lost, only to be found once more by a bandit of the Scavenger lands who turned it into a crude sword.
When striking an opponent, the wielder of this blade may choose to target an intimacy that they are aware of. To do so they roll damage as normal, but each HL of damage is instead treated as a scene spent eroding that intimacy.
Characters who lose an intimacy find they have no desire to reclaim it, the memory of their old feelings producing only a subdued apathy. They must spend 1WP per scene spent rebuilding said intimacy though they will not resist the attempts of others to do so.

A second purchase of Golden Years Tarnished Black can already do that. Also, frankly, Golden Years Tarnished Black has enough upgrades. One of the consequences of 2e's edginess, I think.

I'm a lot more tolerant of edgelordism than most people here but really, it was a bit much. How many ways to inflict highly specific trauma does an Infernal really need? How many words does the game really need to spend on disgustingly intimate ways to violate people's minds?

The scalpel is neat but seems worryingly powerful. You can do terrible things to a captured enemy with that. Probably wants a keyword so it can be properly defended against, and maybe some limit on its effectiveness against opponents who can't defend themselves physically.

Yeah, Discord isn't for me either. For me it's a combination of anxieties, how the internet makes increasingly everyone question everyone's motives and the fact it's interactions are expected to happen in real-time. You rarely have time to consider how someone might misrepresent your statement and because of the 'big-ass pit' you mentioned you're not among friends, not really.

Discord is pretty good for some things. Like sending quick messages to friends, or collaborating on something you're writing / designing. But otherwise agreed.

From my end it feels like a sort of tyrannical fragility, where a small number of excessively sensitive people dominate conversation by being hurt and angry whenever someone steps out of "line". I imagine it feels pretty different from the other end, though!

You get some of that in forums too, but not as much of it. Conversation that's text-based but fast seems to magnify anxieties, increasing the natural friction between the touchy and the callous.
 
A second purchase of Golden Years Tarnished Black can already do that. Also, frankly, Golden Years Tarnished Black has enough upgrades. One of the consequences of 2e's edginess, I think.

I'm a lot more tolerant of edgelordism than most people here but really, it was a bit much. How many ways to inflict highly specific trauma does an Infernal really need? How many words does the game really need to spend on disgustingly intimate ways to violate people's minds?

The scalpel is neat but seems worryingly powerful. You can do terrible things to a captured enemy with that. Probably wants a keyword so it can be properly defended against, and maybe some limit on its effectiveness against opponents who can't defend themselves physically.
Lol, not sure how I missed that.

As for the scalpel... My thought is if you can kill someone this is better then being dead.
 
Lol, not sure how I missed that.

As for the scalpel... My thought is if you can kill someone this is better then being dead.
Keywording your Emotion effects isn't option. This weapon is also considerably worse than just taking damage, because it destroys why you're actually fighting and renders you vulnerable to influence in a way losing a few health levels wouldn't. Dying in a fight is to be expected, having your actual character eroded by a minor artifact with no keywording and whose mechanics explicitly penalize you trying to rebuild the intimacy is just really, really annoying.

Like, an Infernal using this could just destroy an Immaculate Shikari's faith, and then quickly flip them into a brand new minion. You gotta keyword it.

(This is why homebrewing Artifacts in Ex2 is the fucking worst, everything other than damage effects are either too strong or useless because everyone who matters needs to be able to keyword-defense).
 
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Thank you, Sunny, you were definitely not in my bottom four Exalted Discord users either (Please read this in the tone of a joke, I'm not trying to be particularly cutting).
Sometimes, you've gotten on my nerves, but you're alright and I have been unfair towards you at times, so I apologize for that.

Anyways, does anyone have the stats on how Sid Crafting compares to Lunar Craft? Also, am I missing something or do Sids lack a charm like Protean Creator Discipline or Arete-Shifting Prana that lets them more easily get multiple Craft ability ratings? That's a bit rough, especially if you're devoting XP to sorceries or lots of martial arts.
 
Keywording your Emotion effects isn't option. This weapon is also considerably worse than just taking damage, be
So this is a good question actually, because the point of the "1 HL = 1 Scene of Eroding an Intimacy" was to make it so the trade was generally in line with "This sword could.have killed you but it destroys an intimacy instead" not "this sword could have hurt you but it takes an intimacy instead". Was that an incorrect assumption.
The scalpel is neat but seems worryingly powerful. You can do terrible things to a captured enemy with that. Probably wants a keyword so it can be properly defended against, and maybe some limit on its effectiveness against opponents who can't defend themselves physically
Apologies, based on Kaiyas reply I think my own may have been unclear. I didn't respond to the keyword part because I agreed and had nothing more to say (righteous lion defence should definitely be useable against this). It was the "worrying powerful part" I was responding to (and I am now realizing your bigger worry was spamming this against a captured exalt. Maybe something about only being able to defeat one intimacy a scene so it isn't that different from the usual captured social stuff)
 
Sometimes, you've gotten on my nerves, but you're alright and I have been unfair towards you at times, so I apologize for that.

Anyways, does anyone have the stats on how Sid Crafting compares to Lunar Craft? Also, am I missing something or do Sids lack a charm like Protean Creator Discipline or Arete-Shifting Prana that lets them more easily get multiple Craft ability ratings? That's a bit rough, especially if you're devoting XP to sorceries or lots of martial arts.

Assuming you mean 3E: Craft Calculations - Sword of Creation compares most exalt types except for Solars.
 
Sometimes, you've gotten on my nerves, but you're alright and I have been unfair towards you at times, so I apologize for that.

Anyways, does anyone have the stats on how Sid Crafting compares to Lunar Craft? Also, am I missing something or do Sids lack a charm like Protean Creator Discipline or Arete-Shifting Prana that lets them more easily get multiple Craft ability ratings? That's a bit rough, especially if you're devoting XP to sorceries or lots of martial arts.
They lack it, and I'm baffled as to why. I actually submitted a report via the kickstarter errata form explaining that they really, really, really need one.

Comparison-wise, they're more or less in line with each other, but Sidereal Craft has more weird stuff, including some potent combat and healing things. Without an equivalent to Protean Creator Discipline, I wouldn't play a Sidereal artifact crafter, but in the Sidereals game I'm in I dipped Crafting for access to the utility effects, and am probably gonna get at least one unfavored Charm purchase.
So this is a good question actually, because the point of the "1 HL = 1 Scene of Eroding an Intimacy" was to make it so the trade was generally in line with "This sword could.have killed you but it destroys an intimacy instead" not "this sword could have hurt you but it takes an intimacy instead". Was that an incorrect assumption.

Apologies, based on Kaiyas reply I think my own may have been unclear. I didn't respond to the keyword part because I agreed and had nothing more to say (righteous lion defence should definitely be useable against this). It was the "worrying powerful part" I was responding to (and I am now realizing your bigger worry was spamming this against a captured exalt. Maybe something about only being able to defeat one intimacy a scene so it isn't that different from the usual captured social stuff)
Health levels are not one to one for intimacy erosion, is the thing. Sometimes they'll be more valuable, sometimes they'll be less, it's extremely character and campaign dependent. Focus instead on how easy is it to destroy the fun part of playing a character. How easy is it to destroy Voldemort's obsession with eternal life, how easy is it to destroy Harry Dresden's sense of heroism, how easy is it to destroy Michael Carpenter's love for his kids, how easy is it to destroy Darth Vader's self hatred?

That's the important part, "how easy is it to take this important character and reduce them to being my minion?"
 
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They lack it, and I'm baffled as to why. I actually submitted a report via the kickstarter errata form explaining that they really, really, really need one.

Comparison-wise, they're more or less in line with each other, but Sidereal Craft has more weird stuff, including some potent combat and healing things. Without an equivalent to Protean Creator Discipline, I wouldn't play a Sidereal artifact crafter, but in the Sidereals game I'm in I dipped Crafting for access to the utility effects, and am probably gonna get at least one unfavored Charm purchase.
Oof, that does hurt my interest in playing a Sidereal Crafter. Hopefully a charm that does that gets added since even the arch-specialists among the Exalted, the Solars, have a charm that eases that restriction quite a bit.

Assuming you mean 3E: Craft Calculations - Sword of Creation compares most exalt types except for Solars.
Perfect, thank you for doing the work on that!
 
Apologies, based on Kaiyas reply I think my own may have been unclear. I didn't respond to the keyword part because I agreed and had nothing more to say (righteous lion defence should definitely be useable against this). It was the "worrying powerful part" I was responding to (and I am now realizing your bigger worry was spamming this against a captured exalt. Maybe something about only being able to defeat one intimacy a scene so it isn't that different from the usual captured social stuff)

Maybe borrow from 3e's (much better) system and make the strength of the intimacy relevant?

I don't think strong intimacies should be untouchable, but they should tend to come back when you cut them out. And maybe there should be serious psychological consequences for removing 'em. If you de-hero-ize Harry Dresden, even temporarily, he's probably gonna go a little nuts.

If scalpeling out people's intimacies isn't a viable way of minion-izing them, many of the problems go away. So maybe tweak it with that in mind.

They lack it, and I'm baffled as to why. I actually submitted a report via the kickstarter errata form explaining that they really, really, really need one.

Well, randomly lacking important capabilities is part of the Sidereal experience. I deliberately kept the expertise-broadener very limited when I sketched out Sidereal Craft.

Elemental Vision
Cost: -; Mins: Craft 2, Essence 1; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None

There are five crafts which represent the elements to the Sidereal Exalted. They are

Air: Painting
Earth: Architecture
Fire: Weapon-smithing
Wood: Weaving
Water: Cooking

Each costs only 1xp or 1/3 of a bonus point to a Sidereal with this Charm. A Sidereal who already has such specialties is refunded 2xp for each upon buying this Charm. In addition, any elemental or Terrestrial Exalt of an element that the Sidereal has the associated Craft for is treated as though they had a Minor Tie of respect for the Sidereal. Elementals and Terrestrials with Major or Defining Ties for the Sidereal ignore this effect.

Unfortunately, in the canon system that might not be an option. The canonical rules for spreading your expertise are just too punishing to tolerate.

Which reminds me, I need to do a proper Sidereal Craft writeup now that the book's done.
 
They lack it, and I'm baffled as to why. I actually submitted a report via the kickstarter errata form explaining that they really, really, really need one.

Comparison-wise, they're more or less in line with each other, but Sidereal Craft has more weird stuff, including some potent combat and healing things. Without an equivalent to Protean Creator Discipline, I wouldn't play a Sidereal artifact crafter, but in the Sidereals game I'm in I dipped Crafting for access to the utility effects, and am probably gonna get at least one unfavored Charm purchase.

Health levels are not one to one for intimacy erosion, is the thing. Sometimes they'll be more valuable, sometimes they'll be less, it's extremely character and campaign dependent. Focus instead on how easy is it to destroy the fun part of playing a character. How easy is it to destroy Voldemort's obsession with eternal life, how easy is it to destroy Harry Dresden's sense of heroism, how easy is it to destroy Michael Carpenter's love for his kids, how easy is it to destroy Darth Vader's self hatred?

That's the important part, "how easy is it to take this important character and reduce them to being my minion?"
So I don't disagree with you Kaiya, but you're also arguing a point orthogonal to my question. My question was "in your experience as someone who plays more exalted than me, can you assume that if you've dealt enough HL to erode an intimacy using this weapon, then you would have been able to kill the opponent if you'd instead been using a regular reaper Daiklave".

I also feel that you're overstating the minion maker effect. The weapon explicitly only removes intimacies, it doesn't add them. And in social combat (what you would need to use to make a miniom) an intimacy only adds 2 to you defense.

And like, this artifact let's you add two to your social attacks against this character if you've defeated them in combat is not exactly game breaking. That said, I fully admit I might be missing something, and if so feel free to point out what I am missing.

Lastly, as to the *thematic* point about how this can be unfun for players (either because it attacks something they don't want to lose as a player or because using it themselves flattens and trivializes the character of their opponent)... Again to aren't *wrong* here because these are very much matters of taste.

At the same time, I feel like a certain amount of "my defining characteristics are something which can be changed by hostile action" is baked into the core premise of exalted. In fact I would say part of the appeal of the game is playing characters who can do that (and who have to worry about that being done to them). And adding keywords means that players won't feel too bad about this being used on them because they should have some sort of social defense for the really important stuff (Righteous Lion Defence).
 
Maybe borrow from 3e's (much better) system and make the strength of the intimacy relevant?

I don't think strong intimacies should be untouchable, but they should tend to come back when you cut them out. And maybe there should be serious psychological consequences for removing 'em. If you de-hero-ize Harry Dresden, even temporarily, he's probably gonna go a little nuts.

If scalpeling out people's intimacies isn't a viable way of minion-izing them, many of the problems go away. So maybe tweak it with that in mind.



Well, randomly lacking important capabilities is part of the Sidereal experience. I deliberately kept the expertise-broadener very limited when I sketched out Sidereal Craft.

Elemental Vision
Cost: -; Mins: Craft 2, Essence 1; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None

There are five crafts which represent the elements to the Sidereal Exalted. They are

Air: Painting
Earth: Architecture
Fire: Weapon-smithing
Wood: Weaving
Water: Cooking

Each costs only 1xp or 1/3 of a bonus point to a Sidereal with this Charm. A Sidereal who already has such specialties is refunded 2xp for each upon buying this Charm. In addition, any elemental or Terrestrial Exalt of an element that the Sidereal has the associated Craft for is treated as though they had a Minor Tie of respect for the Sidereal. Elementals and Terrestrials with Major or Defining Ties for the Sidereal ignore this effect.

Unfortunately, in the canon system that might not be an option. The canonical rules for spreading your expertise are just too punishing to tolerate.

Which reminds me, I need to do a proper Sidereal Craft writeup now that the book's done.
Just saw this, and between you and Kaiya I am wondering why everyone is jumping immediately to minion making. Using the Dresden Example removing his intimacy of heroism or whatever isn't going to make him want to follow you. Even removing all his intimacies won't since he remembers you doing it.
 
An Intimacy doesn't just give you +2 to defend against social attacks; it defines what you actually want to do. Numbers aside, some attempts at persuasion will be resisted ferociously and others will not.

If you can pick and choose personality traits to remove from someone, you can just identify whatever keeps them from wanting to help you and excise it. (Unless it's their Motivation, I suppose.) You can turn enemies into acquaintances.
 
An Intimacy doesn't just give you +2 to defend against social attacks; it defines what you actually want to do. Numbers aside, some attempts at persuasion will be resisted ferociously and others will not.

If you can pick and choose personality traits to remove from someone, you can just identify whatever keeps them from wanting to help you and excise it. (Unless it's their Motivation, I suppose.) You can turn enemies into acquaintances.
Right and enemies into acquaintances *is* strong but it's not "allies into minions". Its also important to note here that there might often be non-emotional reasons to fight someone, multiple reasons to fight someone *and* you can get these intimacies back.

Like if you remove Dresden's heroism he's not going to stop being a hero. He's going to go on an emotional journey to reconnect with his old feelings and become the man he once was

Edit: put another way there are already social charms which let you create an intimacy in people and all the critiques of this artifact seem like they would apply to, for example, Memory Reweaving Discipline. And an artifact which mimics a charm doesn't seem overly strong
 
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Right and enemies into acquaintances *is* strong but it's not "allies into minions". Its also important to note here that there might often be non-emotional reasons to fight someone, multiple reasons to fight someone *and* you can get these intimacies back.

Like if you remove Dresden's heroism he's not going to stop being a hero. He's going to go on an emotional journey to reconnect with his old feelings and become the man he once was

Edit: put another way there are already social charms which let you create an intimacy in people and all the critiques of this artifact seem like they would apply to, for example, Memory Reweaving Discipline. And an artifact which mimics a charm doesn't seem overly strong
Presumably the issue is mixing social and normal combat. Social combat in 2e was extremely powerful, but one of it's limits was that the effects were expensive in motes and wp and that in general you couldn't do social stuff in combat time(long ticks vs ticks). This breaks that, so it's not an artifact mimicking a charm(unless there is an effect like this already).
 
Enemies into acquaintances is much, much, stronger than allies into minions. I mean, once someone is devoid of all problematic intimacies, you can often just pay them.

And if they have some kind of problem with being brainwashed, you can just scalpel away that problem.

Like if you remove Dresden's heroism he's not going to stop being a hero. He's going to go on an emotional journey to reconnect with his old feelings and become the man he once was

You explicitly said the opposite, actually.

Characters who lose an intimacy find they have no desire to reclaim it, the memory of their old feelings producing only a subdued apathy.

As for Memory-Reweaving Discipline and the like, they can be resisted in various ways. Including just spending willpower. This prevents people from even wanting to try.
 
Enemies into acquaintances is much, much, stronger than allies into minions. I mean, once someone is devoid of all problematic intimacies, you can often just pay them.

And if they have some kind of problem with being brainwashed, you can just scalpel away that problem.



You explicitly said the opposite, actually.



As for Memory-Reweaving Discipline and the like, they can be resisted in various ways. Including just spending willpower. This prevents people from even wanting to try.
I mean, if your argument is that enemies to acquaintances is stronger than acquaintances to allies... Well memory Reweaving does enemies to allies (one use removes the intimacy, another creates it). (This is an area where I feel like I'm just *missing* some rule or something because I feel like we have such a contrary read of the effect?)

And they can both be resisted, it's just one requires social defence and the other requires combat defence (and also because I accept the keyword defence the sword can *also* be blocked by a lot of social charms like righteous lion defence)

Finally, I don't agree removing an intimacy automatically means enemies to acquaintances? Like, example scenario:

I'm a black court vampire. I'm fighting Harry Dresden to the death because I'm trying to kill molly and he doesn't want that to happen.

So first I remove his intimacy for Molly (which means I *could* have killed him). Then I remove his heroism intimacy (which means I could have killed him) then I remove his intimacy towards the white council so that he isn't duty bound to fight me (which means I could have killed him).

Well that still might not be enough to end the fight because even if he has no emotional attachment to these intimacies we are still fighting to the death and he remembers me removing these intimacies.

At that point I could have killed him several times over just to create the same effect as a single use of Memory Reweaving Discipline.

And sure, that's an extreme example, but I think it does a good job of showing why I don't think this weapon is nearly as powerful as you think it is?

(It is, of course, useful. Removing these intimacies makes it a lot easier *to* stop the fight after all. And there is going to be a period after the fight but before your opponent regains their intimacies where they are a prime candidate for flipping. And not everyone will be able to muster the energy to regain these intimacies [though I imagine most player characters will]).


---
I feel there is a miscommunication here.
I don't consider that the opposite? It removes your desire to regan it because otherwise overcoming the effect is trivial, but you can explicitly surprised that with one WP so that characters can force themselves to reconnect with what they once loved. Also any character should have should have a support network working to help them reconnect amd heal the damage.

--+
Like in my mind the primary use for this weapon is to give the wielder a brief window (1-3 weeks) during which they lack the ideological cause which drives their conflict with you. Sometimes you'll get lucky and the opponent won't spend the effort to regain that intimacy, but I'm assuming any Heroic opponents will do so.
 
You end the fight, then you start cutting at the mind. Using the intimacy-affecting ability in combat is a sucker's plan; you should pretty much never do it.

Even if you successfully remove all their relevant intimacies, they'll probably just keep fighting. I mean, you're in the process of attacking them with a sword.

If you start work when they're bound, blindfolded, and preferably unconscious, well, that's a different story.

... you can explicitly surprised that with one WP so that characters can force themselves to reconnect with what they once loved. Also any character should have should have a support network working to help them reconnect amd heal the damage.

That's not what you wrote; if it's what you meant, you should make some edits.

The current writeup makes pretty clear that they don't have any reason to force themself to reconnect. The desire's gone. The former hero would rather get into cake decorating than heroism; even if chance and circumstance lead them back on the path to heroism, following it will cost them willpower.

As for their support network, you can just scalpel that away.
 
Oof, that does hurt my interest in playing a Sidereal Crafter. Hopefully a charm that does that gets added since even the arch-specialists among the Exalted, the Solars, have a charm that eases that restriction quite a bit.
Honestly, just ask your GM if they'd be cool giving Protean Creator to Sidereals verbatim. It doesn't and honestly can't break anything, it just makes playing a Crafter and Martial Artist tolerable to do at the same time. If the GM says no, don't play a Crafter, if they say yes, problem solved!

I mean, if your argument is that enemies to acquaintances is stronger than acquaintances to allies... Well memory Reweaving does enemies to allies (one use removes the intimacy, another creates it). (This is an area where I feel like I'm just *missing* some rule or something because I feel like we have such a contrary read of the effect?)

And they can both be resisted, it's just one requires social defence and the other requires combat defence (and also because I accept the keyword defence the sword can *also* be blocked by a lot of social charms like righteous lion defence)

Finally, I don't agree removing an intimacy automatically means enemies to acquaintances? Like, example scenario:

I'm a black court vampire. I'm fighting Harry Dresden to the death because I'm trying to kill molly and he doesn't want that to happen.

So first I remove his intimacy for Molly (which means I *could* have killed him). Then I remove his heroism intimacy (which means I could have killed him) then I remove his intimacy towards the white council so that he isn't duty bound to fight me (which means I could have killed him).

Well that still might not be enough to end the fight because even if he has no emotional attachment to these intimacies we are still fighting to the death and he remembers me removing these intimacies.

At that point I could have killed him several times over just to create the same effect as a single use of Memory Reweaving Discipline.

And sure, that's an extreme example, but I think it does a good job of showing why I don't think this weapon is nearly as powerful as you think it is?

(It is, of course, useful. Removing these intimacies makes it a lot easier *to* stop the fight after all. And there is going to be a period after the fight but before your opponent regains their intimacies where they are a prime candidate for flipping. And not everyone will be able to muster the energy to regain these intimacies [though I imagine most player characters will]).


---
I feel there is a miscommunication here.
I don't consider that the opposite? It removes your desire to regan it because otherwise overcoming the effect is trivial, but you can explicitly surprised that with one WP so that characters can force themselves to reconnect with what they once loved. Also any character should have should have a support network working to help them reconnect amd heal the damage.

--+
Like in my mind the primary use for this weapon is to give the wielder a brief window (1-3 weeks) during which they lack the ideological cause which drives their conflict with you. Sometimes you'll get lucky and the opponent won't spend the effort to regain that intimacy, but I'm assuming any Heroic opponents will do so.
Yeah, you need to edit the artifact, as written, it reads like "It's explicitly gone forever, plus a trivial negation cost but you're NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT", as Sanctaphrax notes, you made it explicit that you have no reason to spend the WP. Either the fluff matters, or it doesn't. And, IMO, it shouldn't. This isn't a good effect to put in Ex2 in general, honestly. There's not really any good way to balance it, the social system just, well, sucks too much.

Especially as an artifact that anyone can use.

Right and enemies into acquaintances *is* strong but it's not "allies into minions". Its also important to note here that there might often be non-emotional reasons to fight someone, multiple reasons to fight someone *and* you can get these intimacies back.

Like if you remove Dresden's heroism he's not going to stop being a hero. He's going to go on an emotional journey to reconnect with his old feelings and become the man he once was

Edit: put another way there are already social charms which let you create an intimacy in people and all the critiques of this artifact seem like they would apply to, for example, Memory Reweaving Discipline. And an artifact which mimics a charm doesn't seem overly strong
Artifacts that mimick Charms in Ex2 are INCREDIBLY strong. To the point you really, really should not let anyone do that. A 3-dot Artifact that gives people _Solar-level mind control_ is intolerably powerful. If you want Solar mind-control, be a Solar and buy up that Charm tree to reach the effect. Making an artifact to skip that progression and the need to actually be a Solar is way way way too much.
 
If you start work when they're bound, blindfolded, and preferably unconscious, well, that's a different story
I mean sure, but you can also just use Will Crushing Force or repeatedly spam social charms while draining them of motes.

Like "given a captured enemy you can mind control them with a pretty significant certainty of success" is a problem of the game not the artifact. That ships sailed already.
Yeah, you need to edit the artifact, as written, it reads like "It's explicitly gone forever, plus a trivial negation cost but you're NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT", as Sanctaphrax notes, you made it explicit that you have no reason to spend the WP. Either the fluff matters, or it doesn't. And, IMO, it shouldn't. This isn't a good effect to put in Ex2 in general, honestly. There's not really any good way to balance it, the social system just, well, sucks too much

That's not what you wrote; if it's what you meant, you should make some edits.

The current writeup makes pretty clear that they don't have any reason to force themself to reconnect. The desire's gone. The former hero would rather get into cake decorating than heroism; even if chance and circumstance lead them back on the path to heroism, following it will cost them willpower.

As for their support network, you can just scalpel that away.
Fair enough, the intent was to drive home that they have no emotional connection to the old intimacy, no "I have an intimacy of missing this intimacy" and so only her
 
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