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General Exalted Thread

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Deations said:
At the end of the day it's still just a fun hack sold for free, while giving Exalted fans more of a reason to get into WoD20. Banning discussion is just effort wasted on something that is a net benefit for you.

Anyways, I'm pretty hyped to murderhobo the Camarilla to death.
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I want to point out that that's the exact sentiment they're trying to avoid.
The whole history oWoD and Exalted have with one another can result in extreme volatility specifically because of sentiments like that and in case you haven't noticed White Wolf isn't exactly all sunshine and roses at the moment. Ergo, even without personal grudges, there is reason to clamp down on such a thing that looks like it'll be a giant flame war controversy that might send aftershocks along the fault lines within the community.

Especially something as super played out as "Exalted vs the World of Darkness" is.
 
AshenFox said:
I want to point out that that's the exact sentiment they're trying to avoid.
The whole history oWoD and Exalted have with one another can result in extreme volatility specifically because of sentiments like that and in case you haven't noticed White Wolf isn't exactly all sunshine and roses at the moment. Ergo, even without personal grudges, there is reason to clamp down on such a thing that looks like it'll be a giant flame war controversy that might send aftershocks along the fault lines within the community.

Especially something as super played out as "Exalted vs the World of Darkness" is.
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That's not it at all, they allow free discussions about Exalted Connections to world of Darkness. And even if this was why it would be horribly gauche.
 
Exthalion said:
Because they don't like Holden and based on what some people who are patrons of his (I am not) are saying this was done as a jab at OP about the delays being their fault since Holden can crank out content?
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It's not the whole truth. He talked about it on social media, he's proving he is the reason behind the delays. But it's also mostly meant as a gift to the fans as they announced they planned to make this product at the Kickstarter YouTube conversation. It's a good thing this was made. Think of it as a gift and apology.
 
AshenFox said:
I want to point out that that's the exact sentiment they're trying to avoid.
The whole history oWoD and Exalted have with one another can result in extreme volatility specifically because of sentiments like that and in case you haven't noticed White Wolf isn't exactly all sunshine and roses at the moment. Ergo, even without personal grudges, there is reason to clamp down on such a thing that looks like it'll be a giant flame war controversy that might send aftershocks along the fault lines within the community.

Especially something as super played out as "Exalted vs the World of Darkness" is.
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Played out?

I don't think it's ever been done before in any kind of serious way.
 
I mean, Holden did kind of salt the earth very publicly back when he was fired.

Also, iirc he got banned from the OPP forums. They're not gonna let anyone make a thread there advertising something written by someone who's banned, regardless of who they are.
 
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Unbanshee said:
Also, iirc he got banned from the OPP forums. They're not gonna let anyone make a thread there advertising something written by someone who's banned, regardless of who they are.
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What the hell happened there, anyways? I know there was some kerfluffle about the core rule book running late, and then DRAMA, then new Devs.
 
Its so perfectly on-brand for Holden to write something no one asked for, referencing a book from more than ten years ago, which no one was even all that interested in pursuing at the time because there were better things on the table. He's literally offering up table scraps for forgiveness.

I wonder if he's still out there being performatively-woke on Twitter because his best friend got outted as a sex pest.

Reminder, John Morke is the reason why Exalted has so few women writing for the books now, when previously they were some of the most pronounced voices of the line during both Editions. And Holden thinks that's worth defending.
 
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Sanctaphrax said:
Why not?

Forum banning is a way to stop someone from making a nuisance of themselves. It's not some kind of unpersoning.
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It's also not a free vector for people to advertise their self-publishing career after they've been locked out of the official community by having someone else slip their work in under the door.

Matsci said:
What the hell happened there, anyways? I know there was some kerfluffle about the core rule book running late, and then DRAMA, then new Devs.
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From what I understand, holden wanted more money than he signed a contract because he felt cheated, so he sat on various things and drug out 3e for a good long while, to the point where the new devs had to rewrite What Fire Had Wrought. After he got fired, he dropped huge twitter rants where he shit on OPP and aired all his dirty laundry, killing his chances of being hired by pretty much any other publishing company. It's my understanding that he ended up getting banned from RPG.net because he would coach people in how to be disruptive right up until the very limit of what they wouldn't ban people for as long as they were disrupting people he had a grudge against.

Holden is super disruptive, and he delights in making a nuisance of himself if he thinks he's in the right.
 
Imrix said:
but you mentioned trying '... to be impartial on if the Usurpation was justified', and that's not a question I think benefits from a clearcut answer, because as far back as the old Udon comic at the very least, Exalted has been deriving dramatic motivations both from returning Solars fighting for a legacy of dreams wasted by war, and to atone for their own hand in making the waking world a nightmare. Where's the mileage in settling that debate when both sides produce good stories?
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I didn't (and still don't) want an official answer on if the Usurpation was justified or not, but I think DotFA was way too concerned with taking a side that it feels a bit disconnect from the First Age I read about before this.
I actually think Operation Wyldhand is a good flashpoint event if you want the rehabilitate vs. murder debate to be relevant rather than the more persistent narrative of the Solars going increasingly batshit insane and the fact that more than 1 in 25 of them became Deathlords.
There's so much more to do with that set-up, but it's way more likely that the reader is going to say that the First Age simply wasn't worth it.
 
Eldagusto said:
The Exalted Forums erased my two threads about Exalted vs the World of Darkness. :( why?
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I don't actually know... which says a lot really, doesn't it?

However, I've looked at some of the follow up posts (since normally when we 'delete' something we actually move it to a forum where regular users can't see it) and there was already a tangent into Holden's more sordid history with Onyx Path...

So yeah I can get why someone would say "I'm sick of this shit, lets not talk about that on my forums". However, my call would've been to lock it with an explaination. If you just make things disappear people don't know they
 
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Unbanshee said:
I mean, Holden did kind of salt the earth very publicly back when he was fired.

Also, iirc he got banned from the OPP forums. They're not gonna let anyone make a thread there advertising something written by someone who's banned, regardless of who they are.
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It's still a free fan supplement put out there. People should be allowed to discuss it, and I doubt it's advertising given the dude isn't getting paid for it.
 
Unbanshee said:
From what I understand, holden wanted more money than he signed a contract because he felt cheated, so he sat on various things and drug out 3e for a good long while, to the point where the new devs had to rewrite What Fire Had Wrought. After he got fired, he dropped huge twitter rants where he shit on OPP and aired all his dirty laundry, killing his chances of being hired by pretty much any other publishing company. It's my understanding that he ended up getting banned from RPG.net because he would coach people in how to be disruptive right up until the very limit of what they wouldn't ban people for as long as they were disrupting people he had a grudge against.

Holden is super disruptive, and he delights in making a nuisance of himself if he thinks he's in the right.
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There was also the repeated covering for his best friend the serial sexual harasser. He was plenty disruptive on his own, even besides coaching people.
 
Dif said:
Its so perfectly on-brand for Holden to write something no one asked for, referencing a book from more than ten years ago, which no one was even all that interested in pursuing at the time because there were better things on the table. He's literally offering up table scraps for forgiveness.
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This is honestly some pretty strange and warped logic, Dif. He made something fun that other people enjoyed. I don't think you can deny that people thought the concept was fun or funny either, looking at the posts upthread, so to say that this is a bad faith attempt to manipulate others with something nobody wanted is basically a lie. I doubt he much cares if he's forgiven for crimes both perceived and real, so what's the point in trying, again, to suck the fun out of discussing something?
 
Deations said:
It's still a free fan supplement put out there. People should be allowed to discuss it, and I doubt it's advertising given the dude isn't getting paid for it.
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People are totally allowed to discuss it. There's r/Exalted, and this forum has both this exalted thread and a WoD thread where you could talk about the supplement, I'm sure there's plenty of other places online where there's exalted and WoD communities. Just not on the official OPP forums.

Imrix said:
There was also the repeated covering for his best friend the serial sexual harasser. He was plenty disruptive on his own, even besides coaching people.
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Yep, Holden has always deflected from his own and his friend's issues with "well someone else is WORSE"
 
Unbanshee said:
People are totally allowed to discuss it. There's r/Exalted, and this forum has both this exalted thread and a WoD thread where you could talk about the supplement, I'm sure there's plenty of other places online where there's exalted and WoD communities. Just not on the official OPP forums.
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And I don't see the logic behind that? It literally does no harm to OPP's brand besides give Exalted fans a reason to be interested in WoD20. The reason why the supplement is allowed to be discussed here and not there is because Rich Thomas is there and not here.

If nothing else people should be allowed to discuss the supplement and discuss Holden, if they're so inclined.

And I still don't know why all discussion, positive or negative, of Holden is verboten on the official forums while Matt McFarland is unbanned and more than welcome to post. By all accounts Holden's worst crime is being friends with a creepy sex pest with a poor understanding of boundaries, while McFarland more likely than not had raped a minor, and never denied it when accused.

At least it would be better if people were allowed to talk about him or things he wrote, if only to shit on him if they're so inclined.
 
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I mean i don't know how to explain "If someone is banned from a platform, letting their people bring them up as a topic through their work on the same platform is a bad idea" if you don't already understand that. I'm fairly certain if you went pretty darn near ANYWHERE on the internet and got banned from their platform, then you wrote a fan supplement, they wouldn't let you or someone else post your work to drum up word of mouth about you again.
 
Unbanshee said:
I mean i don't know how to explain "If someone is banned from a platform, letting their people bring them up as a topic through their work on the same platform is a bad idea" if you don't already understand that. I'm fairly certain if you went pretty darn near ANYWHERE on the internet and got banned from their platform, then you wrote a fan supplement, they wouldn't let you or someone else post your work to drum up word of mouth about you again.
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Holden is banned on Something Awful and they are still permitted to discuss Holden there. Similarly, the RPG.net thread to discuss this was, to my knowledge, never deleted.

I'm convinced this is entirely the result of personal antipathy rather than savvy pragmatism, and the only people this decision hurts are people who might become interested in WoD20 where they otherwise weren't.
 
I mean... if your argument is that OPP is cutting it's own nose off to spite it's face, then... okay? they can do that, it's their forum. Holden's removal from them was a big messy thing. It shouldn't be any kind of surprise that they don't want him as a topic on their forums.

If I have a messy break up where my Ex stole my xbox and held it hostage because they think I wasn't paying enough attention to them, then they deleted all my achievements when I threatened to call the cops, and they keep talking shit about me on social media a year later, I'm fully in my rights to shut down conversations that come up with them as a topic when they happen at my house while the people who are visiting are eating my food and using my internet, even if i was a shit boyfriend.
 
Pretty sure this very forum puts no limitations at all on discussing the work of banned users.

The very small forum I moderate doesn't either, and I can't imagine any reason why it should.

PS: Since someone brought up Morke's harassment...has OPP ever acknowledged/apologised for what he did? Or what Matt McFarland did?
 
Unbanshee said:
I mean... if your argument is that OPP is cutting it's own nose off to spite it's face, then... okay? they can do that, it's their forum. Holden's removal from them was a big messy thing. It shouldn't be any kind of surprise that they don't want him as a topic on their forums.
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The idea that a private platform can arbitrarily decide what is or is not permitted based entirely on their own whims is unambiguously true, yes.

That does not mean their decision to do so is better or that it is in the interests of the people using the platform. Nor is such a decision in and of itself immune to criticism just because it is legally permitted.
 
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