I'm going to split your post up in two, and I hope you're okay with that.

No reason not too. It's less common than now, but the actual maximum lifespan of huamns has been hit by people in every society, the only difference is proportion. In the Realm, Chiaraoscuro, Nexus upper class, etc. I would suspect a fair number get quite old.

It's not just "less common than now", it's incredibly rare. The life expectancy in early 19th century England was 40. In Classical Rome it was 30. In Viking Age Scandinavia, anyone who survived the horrific childhood diseases and other hardships could expect a long and proud life of 40 years. Less than 2% of the population even reached 60. Sure, they exist, but I don't think they're a very meaningful statistic.

(Although the last of those is probably a bit unsure because it's calculated off skeletal remains.)

I would however raise an issue I think people have missed with the issue of the Sun choosing Exalts. What happens if he chooses someone who...has no desire to be an Exalt, even if they fit the criterion? Then they're just fucked. That's kind of a serious problem.

No, not at all. Then you get a person who doesn't want to be an Exalt, and the Sun doesn't give two fucking shits about that; why should he bother?

Pretty sure they do. I mean, literally Psalms is talking about:

Article:
Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.


It's at the old end, but it's entirely plausible for the Ancient World.

Sure, it's plausible, but I don't think "people aged 70-80" are a very large population number, and I don't think they should come into our criteria for whether or not the Exaltation is unfair.
 
I'm going to split your post up in two, and I hope you're okay with that.



It's not just "less common than now", it's incredibly rare. The life expectancy in early 19th century England was 40. In Classical Rome it was 30. In Viking Age Scandinavia, anyone who survived the horrific childhood diseases and other hardships could expect a long and proud life of 40 years. Less than 2% of the population even reached 60. Sure, they exist, but I don't think they're a very meaningful statistic.

(Although the last of those is probably a bit unsure because it's calculated off skeletal remains.)



No, not at all. Then you get a person who doesn't want to be an Exalt, and the Sun doesn't give two fucking shits about that; why should he bother?



Sure, it's plausible, but I don't think "people aged 70-80" are a very large population number, and I don't think they should come into our criteria for whether or not the Exaltation is unfair.
Most of them are prolly in the Realm and Prasad, I'd think, given analgics there.
 
I'm going to split your post up in two, and I hope you're okay with that.



It's not just "less common than now", it's incredibly rare. The life expectancy in early 19th century England was 40. In Classical Rome it was 30. In Viking Age Scandinavia, anyone who survived the horrific childhood diseases and other hardships could expect a long and proud life of 40 years. Less than 2% of the population even reached 60. Sure, they exist, but I don't think they're a very meaningful statistic.

(Although the last of those is probably a bit unsure because it's calculated off skeletal remains.)



No, not at all. Then you get a person who doesn't want to be an Exalt, and the Sun doesn't give two fucking shits about that; why should he bother?



Sure, it's plausible, but I don't think "people aged 70-80" are a very large population number, and I don't think they should come into our criteria for whether or not the Exaltation is unfair.
That said, we should take this post with a grain of salt, because not only are broad numbers like this utterly useless for anything productive, it depends on the specific place focusing on, social class and many more factors like that. A thrall in Viking Age Scandinavia is obviously not going to live very long when compared to some jarl of Roskilde or whatever.
 
Thank you for the clarification. I searched mandate of heaven which turned out to be too specific.

Though the example on Page 59 just says gods are not supposed to screw with mortals and gives the mandate to the exalted it does not specify Solars specifically.

In the WFHW intro it even calls out countries ruled over entirely by dragonblooded without any solar involvement in the First Age.

EDIT: Like just to be clear my initial concern was that it was stated that Sol gave Creation to the Solars specifically but based on what has been written so far in third it seems more likely that all the exalted got a share and the position of the solars was won through diplomancy and warfare
 
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I wasn't aware of that - my assumption was that the Exaltations are autonomous because that way the Incarnae didn't have to manually hot-swap users for them every time a Celestial Exalt got splattered by the Primordials.

The Incarnate Rebellion was a charnel house where a single skirmish could wipe out entire civilizations, with both sides desperately clawing for the slightest advantage. Having their greatest weapon be able to redeploy itself without direct input would be a no-brainer, especially for something designed by Autochthon, patron of industry and innovation.
I know I'm a bit late, but there's another important point to be made for automating the seeker system: it makes it significantly harder to disable or subvert the replenishment of the Exalted. If the Incarnae are able to control it themselves, that means that killing or controlling one causes all of its associated Exaltations to start either going nowhere or to people likely to support the Primordials.

By automating it they keep themselves from being a constant escort mission for the Exalted. Sure, the Incarnae are ludicrously potent, but Primordials are going to have comparable abilities. Seven major points of failure isn't going to be something you want.
 
I don't see how the fuck that was necessary.
Well I guess it's my turn to apologise, that was rather too snippy.

The funny thing is I actually didn't mean it as a dig at you. A few pages back you commented on being bummed we're not on good terms, and I dunno, we had some reasonable discussion here, so I felt like offering you... Not an olive branch, but a signpost, I guess? As to why that is. Before you say it, no, I don't mean the reason is that I'm an asshole sometimes, although granted that's certainly part of it. I wanted to point out the kind of thing to which I respond with the kind of jabs that are my end of what keeps us on bad terms. Quite clearly I bungled the framing of that, so for that much, I apologise.
 
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But for what it is worth, the thing to remember is that even assuming Exaltation WAS a divinely-chosen affair, the contest is already rigged. It chooses only hosts who are explicitly whole and hale, of sound mind, matured but still young and spirited. People who were Already well off in the scheme of Creation's tragedies, and it makes them better, not existing as some manner of universally-elevating force available to all mankind. Cripples, the mad, the elderly and the pre-adult are all exempt from the mere possibility of becoming anything, some not even Dragonblooded for their acts of heroism, and so it makes an assertion these people have nothing to contribute as Exalts and never will. Some only get in by becoming Abyssals and pledging to kill the world for its crimes against them, which is a whole layer of subtext to itself.

The setting makes some very explicit value-judgements on who it wishes to be its protagonists, and not recognizing that is a big misstep in looking at how Exalted handles (and judges) the distribution of power.
Whatever your thoughts on what this particular viewpoint adds to the game's themes, I can't agree with this simply on the grounds that Exalted, at least as of Third Edition, has been taking steps to become more and more inclusive of every portion of its fanbase. In a game where Danaa'd was a trans woman and there are nonbinary satraps, it's at best insensitive and at worst outright malicious to deny disabled players the chance at representation among the Exalted.
 
Is there... any reason for people to not use peronelle?

I remember hearing someone say that every single demon has a drawback or complication, making it difficult for them to live in ordinary mortal society.

What about peronelle?
 
I think the mythic and weird fantasy themes can perfectly work together, it's just a question of writing them properly. I have come to lean more 3e as time went on, but I'm gonna be real; I have some pretty persistent issues with how 3e handles things, just as I have them with 2e and 1e, and I think Exalted could really benefit from, as I've talked a little bit with @Rook (and she has talked far more about herself) about before:
  • A style guide.
  • A consistent art style befitting the style guide.
  • Some core axioms and an identity for what it actually wants to be about.
  • Immense amount of research into culture and myth, because God, does it need it.

Yeah, I'm the one who's entirely fine with the Sun having been spending the years away at the Games of Divinity until some spark of excellence catches his eye and he Chooses a new Lawgiver. Because I feel it's perfectly appropriate for the sun to be a victorious war-god and sky-father, resting on his laurels after victory and playing away at games, while forsaking his duties as the Most High and King of Heaven. But I have, and likely will again, in the future argued for autonomous Exaltation process before, because as you say, it can support some pretty rad themes.
@ this and the thing it is addressing from last page and bearing in mind I have clear preferences for what I care about in Exalted as a game/don't much care for any specific editon (also please forgive my truncated typing, this is from my phone and Madrid is a sweltering stovtop early in the AM, and I am writing in bed):

Exalted has put its fingers in many figurative pies throughout its history and that does include a sort of speculative fiction of social sciences and the geography of people, such as the (un)ethical starknes of Manacle & Coin's socioeconomic portrayals of slavery or Blood & Salt's everything. Neil Gaiman has said that science fiction is foremost a literature of ideas, and this applies to that which is called the social sciences as well (loaded as such a term as science may be). So in that specific and limited sense I will always come to Exalted for a sort of science fiction.

That isn't to say you can't mix things up or blur the lines between scifi and fantasy, like they're somehow incompatible or even especially different. I just read a novel set in a secondary world (that may be ours) which featured, among other things: A genuinely evil empire; nonhuman races (the way elves are in genre fantasy) that can basically do magic; a story structure that for all its original and literary shape is quite knowingly archetypal when you put it all together - and it is genuinely building itself together in a mythic , Biblically awesome way.

It also contains intense adherence to classical thermodynamics, post-post-???-apoc technology, societies that regularly go literally communist (with implicit critiques of capitalism in the text), a prodigious amount of information about geology and plate tectonics that frankly makes your average scifi author look lazy, and a thoroughness in worldbuilding that actually makes it feel like there is a whole world, so many things - pertaining to economics and vegetation and political science - are accounted for.

It is also one perfectly coherent novel that manages to, seemingly effortlessly, waltz through scifi and fantasy at the same time to give a truly horrifying and compelling setting before you realize you are watching a mother fucking Earthbend a magma-venting volcano shut after it was opened by a magic floating amethyst obelisk which had a small stone faerie inside it, itself produced by a hyperadvanced civilization thousands of years ago.

In short: Mash them genres together, texture, conceits, subject matter and all, together, as long as you know what it does and to what ends you are doing it. These things work fine together. You get weird shit that if done right will be perfectly coherent, eminently gameable, organically anachronistic and fucking rad.

Also read The Fifth Season you nerds it's great.
 
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Is there... any reason for people to not use peronelle?

I remember hearing someone say that every single demon has a drawback or complication, making it difficult for them to live in ordinary mortal society.

What about peronelle?
It makes you look ill in a premodern society, or else people recognize it as a demon and freak out about that.

Oh yeah, and its always spying on you and trying to seduce you to the Yozi. It does that too.
 
Is there... any reason for people to not use peronelle?

I remember hearing someone say that every single demon has a drawback or complication, making it difficult for them to live in ordinary mortal society.

What about peronelle?
Imagine wearing this, but it's alive. And it grows eyes on itself so it can see. There are of course holes it leaves so you can see/breathe/deficate/speak, and if you need to touch something it can retract, indeed you can wear clothing and have it retreat to where no one can see it, if you're willing to risk being struck with no protection from the demon. But otherwise? It's a liquid demon that adheres to every nook and cranny of your physical body and taps into your essence to feed itself. It's creepy and weird as fuck to want to plaster a demon all over your body as underwear.
 
I'm going to split your post up in two, and I hope you're okay with that.



It's not just "less common than now", it's incredibly rare. The life expectancy in early 19th century England was 40. In Classical Rome it was 30. In Viking Age Scandinavia, anyone who survived the horrific childhood diseases and other hardships could expect a long and proud life of 40 years. Less than 2% of the population even reached 60. Sure, they exist, but I don't think they're a very meaningful statistic.

(Although the last of those is probably a bit unsure because it's calculated off skeletal remains.)



No, not at all. Then you get a person who doesn't want to be an Exalt, and the Sun doesn't give two fucking shits about that; why should he bother?



Sure, it's plausible, but I don't think "people aged 70-80" are a very large population number, and I don't think they should come into our criteria for whether or not the Exaltation is unfair.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't those numbers horrendously inflated by infant mortality. I was given to understand life expectancy was significantly better once those were removed, and so 70 years wouldn't be uncommon. Like everyone would be only at least one person of that age
 
Imagine wearing this, but it's alive. And it grows eyes on itself so it can see. There are of course holes it leaves so you can see/breathe/deficate/speak, and if you need to touch something it can retract, indeed you can wear clothing and have it retreat to where no one can see it, if you're willing to risk being struck with no protection from the demon. But otherwise? It's a liquid demon that adheres to every nook and cranny of your physical body and taps into your essence to feed itself. It's creepy and weird as fuck to want to plaster a demon all over your body as underwear.

So what you're saying is that it will let me Unleash My Inner Anti-Hero.
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't those numbers horrendously inflated by infant mortality. I was given to understand life expectancy was significantly better once those were removed, and so 70 years wouldn't be uncommon. Like everyone would be only at least one person of that age
As I mention later, they should be taken with a grain of salt for several reasons:
  1. Infant mortality is attached to them like a concrete anchor attached to an engine propelling them downwards at light-speed.
  2. Regional variety means that "classical Rome" is not really a useful picture, and the one for medieval Scandinavia specifically uses a sparsely populated area in rural Sweden, which is not representative, of say a wealthy Danish trade town.
  3. No specific period has been specified, leading the numbers to become unusable for any practical evaluation.
In practice, there are immense class differences as well as huge regional variations; to take a Scandinavian example, I don't think it's unreasonable for a wealthy noble of the house of Hvide to reach 70 or higher. In fact, one of the most famous of such, the Bishop Absalon Hvide of Roskilde, did reach 73, while the King he attended, Valdemar, reached 71. I suspect you can expect similar numbers in various other high class environments, such as the senatorial or equestrian classes of Rome, or the hetairoi of Macedonia, etcetera.
 
This demon is more or less literally the Marvel Comics Venom Symbiote except in Exalted.

Venom has a movie coming out fairly soon, starring Tom Hardy.

The tagline of said movie is "Unleash Your Inner Anti-Hero."
.... it would be better if it had a strength boost as well.

And increased your valour and conviction???

How does one mechanized 'becoming an asshole'?
 
Is there... any reason for people to not use peronelle?
I remember hearing someone say that every single demon has a drawback or complication, making it difficult for them to live in ordinary mortal society.
What about peronelle?
It makes you look ill in a premodern society, or else people recognize it as a demon and freak out about that.
Oh yeah, and its always spying on you and trying to seduce you to the Yozi. It does that too.
Yes, wearing one makes you look pale and sickly, you can be recognized as wearing a Perronelle with only a little difficulty.
And also they may try to win you over to the side of Hell, however;
Sensible creatures, perroneles pursue such strategies only while they are likely to succeed.​
Also they are really spooked by bad omens because Lucien is a dick.
This demon is more or less literally the Marvel Comics Venom Symbiote except in Exalted.
Venom has a movie coming out fairly soon, starring Tom Hardy.
The tagline of said movie is "Unleash Your Inner Anti-Hero."
Well, you would need a Perronelle and a Chaomorphic Symbiote to really do it justice, and even then it isn't a perfect match-up.
 
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That's always been a thing, as long as they will use the power then it doesn't matter whether they want it or not.
No, not at all. Then you get a person who doesn't want to be an Exalt, and the Sun doesn't give two fucking shits about that; why should he bother?
The problem is that it either requires Sol to be a dick, which would violate how he has been portrayed, or it would violate how Exaltation qualification works.
 
Ok, that's it.

RESURRECTING THE FALLEN CITY
Cost: 30sm, 2wp
Circle: Solar

The sorcerers stands in the midst of rubble of a silent city, with a harp in his hand. Plucking the strings, he sings the songs that City Fathers sing as they move to a new city. Plucking the strings, the melody trick creation into thinking that the city is whole. Seeing an aberration, the Essence of Creation rushes into correct what it sees as the lack of a city where there should be one.

A light flashes, and a perimeter of white fire burns outwards from the sorcerer's feet, and as it passes through, destruction is reversed. Shattered cobblestones, are transformed into pristine streets. Burnt-out museums and archives are refilled with books and shelves that had been reduced to ash and kindling. Broken up buildings are rebuilt, as if built yesterday. All forms of mundane damage are repaired. The spell is ritualistic, and requires the sorcerer to cast continuously for 24 hours. If he breaks, then the repairs disappear in a flash of light.

However, this cannot repair sorcerous infrastructure , such as manses and artifacts. Also, although it will repair every single thing, it cannot repair damage to the land that is too massive, such as if a massive sinkhole had swallowed half the city. The sinkhole will have to be filled before the city can be fully repaired.


Yeah, I like D. Gray man. Got a problem?
 
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The problem is that it either requires Sol to be a dick, which would violate how he has been portrayed, or it would violate how Exaltation qualification works.

Keep in mind that Sol Invictus is not supposed to exist as a plot token to solve in-game problems, and appealing to him is not supposed to be a win condition. His design should naturally follow - a Sol Invictus that has the power to single-handedly unfuck Creation and the desire to do so is as unwelcome as a reliable method of time travel or a working spell of resurrection, for the same reason we do not allow Ketchup Carjack to do the exact same thing.

Hatewheel seems to have had the desire to make the guy into Golden Superman instead of Aztec Lucifer, which only works if your game's story is going to be all about Golden Superman. This is, presumably, not the normal use case for this game.
 
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Keep in mind that Sol Invictus is not supposed to exist as a plot token to solve in-game problems, and appealing to him is not supposed to be a win condition. His design should naturally follow - a Sol Invictus that has the power to single-handedly unfuck Creation and the desire to do so is as unwelcome as a reliable method of time travel or a working spell of resurrection, for the same reason we do not allow Ketchup Carjack to do the exact same thing.
I suppose that it would work as the capstone of an entire storyline.....
 
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