- Location
- Spain
Does this mean you want to use a training effect to boost a neomah's craft dice before hand?
Nah, ordering it to have their upmost care (AKA, use a willpower) is enough.
Does this mean you want to use a training effect to boost a neomah's craft dice before hand?
... you seem to have misunderstood my point.However, contrary to others, I don't agree with the idea that all demons should be unrelentingly malevolent hell-engines that "are rooted in and pay homage to the classical view of [demons]" (seriously @Aleph, shame on you, that's the kind of thing you rightfully castigated when it was coming from that one guy who thought the first two chapters of MoEP: Infernals was the definitive treatise on Yozi behavior.)
Nah, ordering it to have their upmost care (AKA, use a willpower) is enough.
Anyone written up any new cultures or city-states in Creation recently?
Following this discussion, I just wanted to point this out ES. You call this out for gameification, when your previous argument about percentages was based on dice-rolls and ability scores. That's pretty gamey too.
Likewise, if you don't consider "converting to worship of the Yozis" and "banning the presence of Zeniths in your country" to be deal-breakers, then by all means, let teodozjia run wild in the streets. Just don't do so and then be surprised when all the local gods are cast from their sanctums by wrathful mobs and eternal clouds swallow the sun and moon.
Sorry, I did misunderstand your point - I thought you were denying the idea that the classical demon stereotyping is supposed to be something in-universe that disguises the actual complexity of demons.... you seem to have misunderstood my point.
The Exalted view of demons does cool and original shit with them. It makes them more than just one-dimensional Chaotic Evil things. But it is still rooted in the concept that demons are scary, dangerous things from Hell, which is a nasty, bad place, and gives nods to classical views of them at first glance. Which is why Ligier is an arrogant hellish prince who refuses to even fight in person unless there's an army of Dragonblooded or something equally worthy of his might. And why Erembour is a dark temptress who corrupts men to wickedness and sin and leaves them forever altered and unable to return to the light. And why neomah are sensual, seductive creatures that will commit carnal acts with any being that comes to them. And why blood apes are brutish, violent creatures who rip mortals limb from limb and feast on their blood and bones.
If you look closer, you will find that there is more to them than that - that neomah are actually braver and more honourable than the average human, that Erembour will bless generals who conducts their military endeavours exclusively at night, that gilmyne have this weird religion that's more like real-life ones in that there is no evidence it is true (look at that; a religion in a fantasy setting that isn't necessarily based on something real). Because Exalted demons are more than just the stereotypes; they're weird and wild and wonderful. But a large number of them are made so that from the point of view of an uneducated peasant; someone who knows none of these things and has only rumours and "common knowledge" and a pool of maybe 2-3 in the relevant areas, they look like the stereotypes.
That's what makes demonologists weird and freaky and disturbing. Because they say things like "no no, they're actually just misunderstood, they're just leeching colour and don't hurt things deliberately and you can stop them doing that by lining your doorways and windowsills with tin" to people who know that passion morays are freaky gelatinous near-invisible monsters who suck treasured memories out of men's skulls, kill plants where they touch them, turn blood to water and devour the eyes of animals to leave only horrible gaping empty sockets.
Or, as another instance of Plot, you have to explain what the hell is going on with a society that they'll accept those odds - survivors of a community rendered sterile by Wyld contamination during the Balorian Crusade, for example, might end up using neomah just because that's the only option they know of/can get hold of, and now 800 years down the line there's a strong tradition of "giving back the child"[1] among the artificially assembled descendants of those people.But the more pressing issue beyond any arguments of "are random demons you summoned to do something an extra" is that fact that Creation is not based around the idea that neomah are an easy or casual way to make babies. "We'll get a neomah" is what desperate people or decadent sorcerers do. The failure rates you'd allow make it safer than having a baby the old fashioned way (for the mother, if nothing else). That's bad. That's like the ox plough rule - "In a fantasy setting that looks like an agrarian society, no more effective way of ploughing the fields can be provided than an ox pulling a plough" - only in this case, the ploughing is of another form.
Therefore the integrity of the setting demands that neomah are not safe or more reliable than mundane pregnancy. And a one-in-ten failure rate for even basic reproduction is good for that. And that's why the "well, just order the demon to do it properly" idea must be barred and risk must be kept in to doing it this way - because neomah baby-making should be less safe than doing it the regular way.
This isn't entirely an argument against what you're saying here, but you do need to have a neomah around in the first place before this even becomes a consideration. If you're part of the vast majority of Creation's population (i.e. not one of the Exalted and/or a sorcerer), this is a pretty high hurdle in and of itself. You either need to seek one out (a non-trivial endeavor) or find someone who can summon one (ditto).But the more pressing issue beyond any arguments of "are random demons you summoned to do something an extra" is that fact that Creation is not based around the idea that neomah are an easy or casual way to make babies. "We'll get a neomah" is what desperate people or decadent sorcerers do. The failure rates you'd allow make it safer than having a baby the old fashioned way (for the mother, if nothing else). That's bad. That's like the ox plough rule - "In a fantasy setting that looks like an agrarian society, no more effective way of ploughing the fields can be provided than an ox pulling a plough" - only in this case, the ploughing is of another form.
Therefore the integrity of the setting demands that neomah are not safe or more reliable than mundane pregnancy. And a one-in-ten failure rate for even basic reproduction is good for that. And that's why the "well, just order the demon to do it properly" idea must be barred and risk must be kept in to doing it this way - because neomah baby-making should be less safe than doing it the regular way.
Blerg.Anyone written up any new cultures or city-states in Creation recently?
Please note that Demon Beckoning is a Thaumaturgical art, and while that method of obtaining a neomah means that they're free to indulge in making Chimera out of the local wildlife and leftovers from their clients, it at least gets you one. If you are a community rendered sterile by the Wyld, well, you probably already have a thaumaturge, it's not too unusual for a thumaturge to already have enough knowledge of the Demon path to be able to banish a demon, and Neomah are one of the best known breeds. It's unlikely any given village would have both the need for one and a Thaumaturge who knows enough to figure out how to Beckon one, but with how much the Balorian Crusade altered, one or two instances of that plot in all of Creation is believable.This isn't entirely an argument against what you're saying here, but you do need to have a neomah around in the first place before this even becomes a consideration. If you're part of the vast majority of Creation's population (i.e. not one of the Exalted and/or a sorcerer), this is a pretty high hurdle in and of itself. You either need to seek one out (a non-trivial endeavor) or find someone who can summon one (ditto).
That's edition-specific, but sure. I'm not arguing it's impossible; I'm saying that it's sufficiently difficult that it's not going to be a widespread procedure. Your thaumaturge is rolling against difficulty 5 to bring that neomah through, which is no mean feat, and while you only need to hit that target once, you do need that knowledge and the materials to perform the ritual (possibly repeatedly). If you're not a skilled enough thaumaturge to do that yourself, you also need to provide them with an incentive to take six hours out of their life and perform a difficult ritual that has a small but meaningful chance of causing mishaps.Please note that Demon Beckoning is a Thaumaturgical art, and while that method of obtaining a neomah means that they're free to indulge in making Chimera out of the local wildlife and leftovers from their clients, it at least gets you one. If you are a community rendered sterile by the Wyld, well, you probably already have a thaumaturge, it's not too unusual for a thumaturge to already have enough knowledge of the Demon path to be able to banish a demon, and Neomah are one of the best known breeds. It's unlikely any given village would have both the need for one and a Thaumaturge who knows enough to figure out how to Beckon one, but with how much the Balorian Crusade altered, one or two instances of that plot in all of Creation is believable.
I don't have hard data on period-appropriate infant mortality rates on hand (and my current player group is such that, if they summoned a neomah for personal reasons, I probably wouldn't even bother getting out the dice because the implications of that roll failing do not beget the sorts of plots they're interested in), but I'd probably be willing to say that the safest task you could ask of a neomah (making a child from two parents) should at least be in the same ballpark as the mortality rate of traditional pregnancy. The barrier to entry and the fact that a failed roll won't necessarily even be discovered for a while ought to balance out the advantages.
That's edition-specific, but sure. I'm not arguing it's impossible; I'm saying that it's sufficiently difficult that it's not going to be a widespread procedure. Your thaumaturge is rolling against difficulty 5 to bring that neomah through, which is no mean feat, and while you only need to hit that target once, you do need that knowledge and the materials to perform the ritual (possibly repeatedly). If you're not a skilled enough thaumaturge to do that yourself, you also need to provide them with an incentive to take six hours out of their life and perform a difficult ritual that has a small but meaningful chance of causing mishaps.
These obstacles aren't insurmountable to the determined (or the desperate), but combine them with the fact that neomah-aided childbirth has its own set of side effects, and even if the successful birth rates are very favorably comparable to natural childbirth, it'll still be something you do because you're in real need. (Or because you're a sorcerer with a reason that seems compelling enough.)
Wait, did you accidentally Venus for a moment? Wow...Today, Sunlit Sands Session #13!
@Aleph and I spent last week hashing out expanded Resources rules as to better handle the granular nature of MERCANTILE EMPRESS INKS, but we put that on the back burner for today'se actual Session- the Baths.
Session 13 logs
The session begins with an opening narration, something that I think a lot of games should do- if for no other reason than to remind the players of what's going on and keep them abreast of the situation. Exposition is an important aspect of storytelling and running games- doing so effectively is another question.
Now, I strictly speaking did not need to use Speed The Wheels here- there was no actual indication that extra time would be taken to meet with the Despot, but I'd rather roll my charms than not. Aleph was good about giving me the benefit of invoking the charm and spending the motes.
And then I rolled ten successes on Difficulty 1, threshold of 9. Now, strictly speaking, you are not supposed to give boons or bonuses based on charm-derived actions unless the charm says so. A lot of people misunderstand 'perfect success' in a similar way. Perfect success mechanics do not describe the quality of success, they describe that it cannot be made Unsuccessful without extenuating circumstances.
Graceful Crane Stance does not make it so your balance rolls always result in positive outcomes. It just makes it so you can't fail your balance rolls.
I actually brought this up with Aleph after the game and she agreed that by reading, StW has no 'bonus' for excess successes, but I rolled so well she felt it deserved a reward, which prompted the next roll of the session.
Now, Inks is Perception 5, Investigation 1, whch qualified me for an excellency that I happily used to blow through the 'murder rumors' plot that Aleph presented. In the interests of time and pacing, I and Inks stayed focused on the Baths, but I did not forget the plot.
Rankar today was quite flush with success, and while I can't say Inks took advantage of it, she certainly knew things were easier today than they could have been. Further, The Despot knows that water is power in Gem, and here, almost like the Golden Goose, Inks has provided a new means of expanding that power. I'll provide a writeup of the actual Baths themselves at the end of the postmortem.
Convincing Rankar was not particularly difficult, but his interest in the potential was obvious, and I predicted that he would want a bath of his own at some point- the concession that he 'borrow' Inks's bath (and get to leer at her) was easy to predict up front. I can't speak to how many App 5 people there are in Gem, but the Despot has a controlling interest in the number of attractive slaves.
The muder plot is interesting from what we've heard so far, in that it seems to be motivated by a moral or ethical crusade- the victims were all killed by, if not irony, than some aspect of their professions and crimes. My current theory is that it's Inks's Mysterious Ally...
Now, amusingly, Inks is still from Nexus, where corpses are left in the gutters until floodwaters wash them out. Even though she was a spoiled mafiya princess for years, Inks all too aware of death and decay.
Aleph points out as well, that Rankar is implicityly letting Inks profit on the use of the baths as a facility or similar, so long as she doesn't sell the drinkable water. I could in theory make a public bath house that you pay to use, and he'd be fine with that.
What follows is a brief montage covering the six months of creating the baths itself. A Trivial action to refine the horn- and here I expose a minor weakness, in that I have trouble naming things when I'm not the ST. I feel like I don't have the authority to 'put named things in' to the setting, so I speak more vaguely about what I'm interacting with.
I still enjoyed the father and son gag.
Achieving a threshold of one, Inks now secures a mass of Black Jade, and as Aleph herself points out, declares that Pure Magical Materials should be a Big Deal, description wise. I approve.
Constructing the basin and researching the expanded spell was a Major Action, on top of other commitments to other interests like her agreement with House Sahlak as a doctor, or House Bhalasus's consultancy gig.
Carsa's personality is... not snarky. Soon she will learn.
Today I continue to Roll Exceptionally Well, and Aleph has to continue to improvise boons and bonuses for my success. Having secured a threshold of 6, she gives me an enduring +1d bonus to all water-spell based reserach actions I'll make moving forward. Feels Good Man.
Now, lastly we consecrate the baths to Venus. I personally feel like the gods both great and small are not invoked enough in Exalted- mostly because the extremes of behvaior in how they're used make for awful tone mismatches. Incarnate deform the game around them when they're too present and personable. Lower gods are not important enough to remember or characterize.
Now, Inks being Inks, decides to go big or go home in true solar fashion, so she seeks out the blessing of Venus. I should emphasize that the names of the incarnae and their rough themes are fairly common knowledge, it's the specifics of their behaviors and auspicies that require education or research.
I was particularly proud of hiring astrologers for the right 'days' to do the consecration, as that feels very in-theme for the concept.
Now, through all of the modifiers Aleph pre-calculated for me, the roll for this final step was Difficulty 3. I rolled 10 successes. As you can see in the logs, the results were... impressive.
On that note, the session concludes most positively, and so ends Session 13, Sunlit Sands!
The Baths
Terrestrial Working
The baths take the form of a basin made of both smoothed river stone and rough-hewn rock, sourced from lakebeds or other sources of water. A fragment of Black Jade serves as the anchor for the sorcerous enchantment, which results in water both hot and cold flowing from the highest spires- both taller than a man standing upright. Other enchantments ensure the water is clean and drinkable, though the baths only produce enough water to sate twenty five to fifty people a month.
More importantly however, are the blessings of health and wellness on the baths themselves. Characters who bathe in the waters suspend all ongoing wound, sickness, poison and exhaustion penalties. They may roll their full pool to shake off infection or venom. An hour in the bath extends this therapy for one whole day, allowing a character to count as rested for the purposes of healing injuries.
Yes. Yes, Inks did indeed accidentally Venus. I genuinely did not see that coming, but like I say near the end of the pastebin; Inks's threshold successes basically constituted a successful full-Difficulty prayer roll to a heavenly god in and of themselves.
Yes, actually! A combination of the 800s early medival Danelaw period combined with the neolithic period and bronze age of sun-worshippers as well as the high medieval Queen Margrethe I to get a country of feudalistic sun-worshippers with ancient heroes set to rest in barrows who will rise to defend the country in times of need.Interesting! Is there a particular period of Denmark's history that's inspiring you? Are you playing around with mixing in any other inspirations for the place?
Yes. Yes, Inks did indeed accidentally Venus. I genuinely did not see that coming, but like I say near the end of the pastebin; Inks's threshold successes basically constituted a successful full-Difficulty prayer roll to a heavenly god in and of themselves.
I lol'd hard, I am not afraid to admit. Actually, I wouldn't mind some feedback on what people thought of the Venus manifestation there. And also I'd like to hear about @Shyft's reasoning in assuming that the murders are ~Mysterious Ally~, if he's willing to go into detail and the reason isn't just "it seems like Plot and ~Mysterious Ally~ hasn't overtly shown up yet".
The baths were fun - despite it being Unlucky Session 13, Inks wow'd the rolls and made out like bandits with threshold successes. I would have liked a bit more "sorcerous research stuff" in the middle stunt, but that's probably because I'm a geek who spends time thinking about what dissertation and thesis papers would be titled in magical universities ("an analysis of the effects of the lunar phase on three Enduan tidal blessing rituals", etc). I'm certainly pleased I got to show off the more self-indulgent side of the Despot, and amused that Inks totally called his demands in advance. : P
I liked it! It was impressive and flashy, but without being overly so or hijacking the scene from it's main focus. It mostly seemed like a solid plot hook for later on that just came up organically.Actually, I wouldn't mind some feedback on what people thought of the Venus manifestation there.