Does this work for circles your teachers haven't accessed? Say, if a Solar learns from a Gold Faction Sidereal (who can't achieve the Adamant Circle, and his lineage also hasn't) and breaks through to the Adamant Circle, will he get benefits of Lineage (Gold Faction) for that Circle given he is the first in that lineage to access it?

If that lineage instead originated from Brigid, but was passed on by Terrestrial gods (who have not reached the Celestial Circle for millenia) would that change?

Can you upgrade your lineage by, say, stealing stacks of notes by Salina from a dungeon, and then transform Lineage (House Iselsi) into Lineage (Solar Traditions)?

Okay, so given sorcery is privilege and institutional power as its metaphorical role in this re-work, then Lineage represents inherited wealth and "getting a good start in life". It's metaphorically the kind of cultural, economic and social capital you get by not being born poor.

(incidentally, what Salina does becomes metaphorically guaranteeing everyone a university place)

So a Lineage isn't strictly "things passed down to you by your teacher". It's more, mmm, the weight of this capital. So when you get Lineage from your Gold Faction mentor, you're not just getting what she taught you. You're getting the weight of the oaths that she's sworn with gods, and that her teachers swore with gods, and all those spirit negotiations and spells that her predecessors invented and countless things like that. You're getting things like "Oh, I recognise how this spell works because the school of sorcery I learned invented it". It's a mess of soft benefits and social expectations; it's metaphorically "having the right accent" and "knowing how to interview well".

The Gold Faction mentor therefore gives you a super-comprehensive Lineage that comes from the Silurian traditions of how Sidereals learn, has multiple people who were taught by Silur herself, and so yes, when you cast an Adamant Circle spell you do it in the Department 131 Silurian style and it's very characteristic, drawing on the weight of the schools of heaven. By contrast, the gods are a far less classy lineage and you might be more thematically restricted as to what you can use it with - but that's probably represented by it being a less prestigious lineage (ie, lower-rated) and so you can't use it for high rated spells. It's perfectly functional for TCS, though.

(Imagine sorcerers getting snobby about what university they went to. "Oh, that's nice, you went to a former polytechnic. I studied PPE at Oxford, don't you know?" That is exactly what Lineage is like in-setting)

Unfortunately, no, you can't get Lineage just from notes. Those are "components" you can use for justification for making or altering spells. On the other hand, you could get it if there was a spirit bound in old ruins oathsworn by Silur to teach any Solar who comes looking for wisdom. I mean, mmm, okay, maybe you could get it from, like, a sorcerer's personal grimoire or whatever, but by that point it's not just notes. It's more that you've just found the Book of Darkness (and its in-built Familiars), which is also an artefact in its own right. It's got to be a comprehensive teaching aid to get the benefits of Lineage.

However, yes, you can upgrade your Lineage by finding more teachers. For example, if your Solar is first taught by a rustic god of scholars who long ago swore to help the Solars and has been teaching them whenever they show up (getting Lineage 2), then if they later become an Infernalist and study under one of the demon princes, then their Lineage goes shooting way up. Learning from demon princes is one of the easiest ways to get a high Lineage in modern Creation, because the lines of learning which pass through Third Circles are - ha ha - unquestionable.

It's one of the things they use to lure sorcerers into infernalism.
 
Mm. Thanks- that sounds like a very interesting view of Sorcery.

What Lineage would the Heptagram have here, given that Lineage for Dragonblooded is represented as accumulating in the family over generations?
 
Not to mention it gives real benefits to Secret Societies, instead of just being a chance to play silly buggers with the chaps every once in a while they can really hold inherited mystic knowledge.

Of which most will be mere mortal thamaturgy, but surely the grand-masters have access to even better lore hidden away
 
Mm. Thanks- that sounds like a very interesting view of Sorcery.

What Lineage would the Heptagram have here, given that Lineage for Dragonblooded is represented as accumulating in the family over generations?

Nah, it's not just accumulating in the family - that's just family traditions of sorcerers because Dragonblooded are some of the few people where "a family of sorcerers" is a thing you can have. They also acquire such things normally. The Heptagram is probably the powerhouse of Lineages in modern Creation (ie, outside of Yu Shan and Malfeas and the Underworld) - it's graduated probably thousands of sorcerers over the course of its existence, it has powerful people helping it make sure it has powerful oaths and deals, it has undercover Sidereal teachers, and it's the scholarly arm of the global hegemon.

Heptagram sorcerers are graduating with Lineage 5 (Heptagram), because they went to magical HarvOxbridge and they say things like "Oh, you're a graduate of Lookshy's academy, are you? How adorable. How did it feel to graduate from the second best school in Creation?". After all, they had their parents pay a fortune for them to study there, and so they're super privileged for it. Lesser Realm sorcerers were trained in a few spells in the Legion, say, and then the Heptagram graduates laugh at them and ask if they even know how to read and make jokes about "Legion Polytechnic".
 
To use a D&D-ism, this sounds a lot more like divine casting than sorcerous casting. That is, your spell is being gifted to you via a special relationship with a higher being. Whereas sorcery is your personal mastery over the world.

In this spirit-anchor-style, you're essentially asking Ligier to throw a bit of fire at your target. In the "traditional" sorcerer idea, you're twisting natural essence into hellfire and throwing it by yourself. I feel that the latter is more appropriate for the supposed awesome might of sorcery.

I'd rather put all this anchor-business in the realm of thaumaturgy.

I would not.

Elric of Melnibone couldn't just cast spells through the will and the word; he needed to contact the demons of Melnibone and invoke the power of lord Arioch to work his spells and summon mists to guard the isle. Moses couldn't just will water from stone, he invoked the divine authority of YHWH to split the ocean, call water from beneath and summon the plagues. Thaumaturgy represents "little magics" that peasants and smiths and knights and warriors all learn which are an aspect of Creation being all Miyazaki and full of small magic such as the spirits that live in the forge, which the smith knows how to placate to forge her craft or the small god of the warrior's blade and so on. Sorcery doesn't become less "awesomely powerful" if you actually need to get off your ass to use it; the Primordials needed to exploit the patterns they had woven into Creation from the beginning, the Solars used the Divine Mandate of Heaven and their supreme authority, the Sidereals use the secret designs of the Loom of Heaven and their allies among the gods to find the Lunars who draw on the power of Chaos and invoke the forbidden rogue gods and outcast spirits. The Dragon-Blooded Houses meanwhile draw on their manifold pacts with elemental courts (which are mentioned in the 1e core) in times of war, to turn the Inner Sea against their enemies and call storms and fiery mountains up.

Personal mastery over the world can go fuck itself, because it makes the magic of all sorcerers fucking identical and that's boring as hell; your sorceress tutored in the sacred arts of Heaven will cast identically to Chiming Minaret, taught in the arts of crystal symmetry, twisted into ruin by the Whispers of the Dead. Under the Anchor system, however; the sorceress will draw on her allies among the Pattern Spiders, she will invoke the thousand secret names of Gods, she will take sacred spots where earth is so below as above and closer to heaven, and she will draw on her elevated status as emissary to Creation. Meanwhile Chiming Minaret will create perfect crystals that she shatters with a wave of her hand to rain on her foes, she will listen to the whispers of slain titans and call on her allies beneath the earth and invoke symbols of twisted demonology and they will actually feel different.
 
Nah, it's not just accumulating in the family - that's just family traditions of sorcerers because Dragonblooded are some of the few people where "a family of sorcerers" is a thing you can have. They also acquire such things normally. The Heptagram is probably the powerhouse of Lineages in modern Creation (ie, outside of Yu Shan and Malfeas and the Underworld) - it's graduated probably thousands of sorcerers over the course of its existence, it has powerful people helping it make sure it has powerful oaths and deals, it has undercover Sidereal teachers, and it's the scholarly arm of the global hegemon.

Heptagram sorcerers are graduating with Lineage 5 (Heptagram), because they went to magical HarvOxbridge and they say things like "Oh, you're a graduate of Lookshy's academy, are you? How adorable. How did it feel to graduate from the second best school in Creation?". After all, they had their parents pay a fortune for them to study there, and so they're super privileged for it. Lesser Realm sorcerers were trained in a few spells in the Legion, say, and then the Heptagram graduates laugh at them and ask if they even know how to read and make jokes about "Legion Polytechnic".
I imagine that being taught by TAW Raksi would also be Lineage 5, given how she has stolen and bought half the world spells.

Given you have Heptagram as magical Cambridge, I feel like there should still be another one, so you can have proper boat races and calling all those magical oxford scrubs plebs and shit.

I'm not biased. Fuck oxford.
 
Personal mastery over the world can go fuck itself, because it makes the magic of all sorcerers fucking identical and that's boring as hell

I wouldn't go even that far. "Through my will and intellect, I build a spell in my mind and release it into the world" is a totally valid casting style. And it's supported by Artefact (using the Artefact as a tool to contain the spell to stop it blowing your fragile flesh apart) and Lineage (for given schools of casting).

But by making it just one style of casting, it means it doesn't monopolise things. If you want to be Nanoha who casts entirely through maths and raw power, you can! It's just you can also be Moses whose god gives him the power to do it, or a Legalist sorcerer-bureaucrat who channels the force of laws in the name of the Realm. And you now have an entirely sensible model for why sorcerers are prone to infernalism - because demons have lots of things you want that make you a better sorcerer, and if you do that, you resemble an infernalist from fiction and myth.

I imagine that being taught by TAW Raksi would also be Lineage 5, given how she has stolen and bought half the world spells.

Given you have Heptagram as magical Cambridge, I feel like there should still be another one, so you can have proper boat races and calling all those magical oxford scrubs plebs and shit.

I'm not biased. Fuck oxford.

Well, if you don't want to add another Realm school, that's the Lookshyian academy. And they certainly do magical boat races over the Inner Sea and up and down the Yanaze. Or cloud-chariot racing.

It's like university rivalry, only when things go far and the cox of one boat casts Death of Obsidian Butterflies at the other it's a legitimate international incident.
 
...hrm. Question, @EarthScorpion- depending on your relationship with an Anchor, might that make it count as a higher rating than it is for certain types of spells?

So, for a totally random example that is totally not relevant at all to the future of any game @ManusDomine may be GMing for me, Dilara, a No Moon Lunar Exalted, wants a spell to cleanse a shadowland. She is planning to use her Solar Ally, Aygul (Zenith Caste, may or may not look exactly like the titular character of A Bride's Tale) to Anchor the spell.

Now, my question is, would the fact that Dilara and Aygul are deeply in love make the spell more effective than it otherwise might be, given that love, as a life-affirming act, is inimical to the lands of death?
 
And here we are with Sunlit Sands Session 9! Now with Analysis!

Session 9 logs

Alright, so here we are with the proper analysis, posted mere hours after concluding the session for the evening. Big props to @Aleph as usual for running the game under hostile weather conditions.

So, milestone! Across 9 sessions, Sunlit Sands has nearly covered 420 Creation days if not more. This is a big deal for me, because most games I did not run occured over the course of a few months if that. Most of those games also very quickly gave out FF-style airships or similar boons to waive travel times and get the plot moving. For those games, there was no 'plot' in trying to figure out how to travel.

First thing's first, we touch on the Orphanage, and solving the problem. Aleph introduces Soft Ash Minal, who is (apparently) the woman Inks hired to oversee aforementioned institution and is Good at her Job. Also overworked. We also acknowledge the uncertainty of Neomah creations.

As Aleph mentions at end-of-session, she's very happy that I as a player and Inks as a charcter is willing to engage with NPCs more or less at-will.

One important point here is that this whole side-plot emerged out of two main factors: I as a player did not think to ask how fast children would get made, and Aleph did not think to hint or tell me how many would be made. It's this odd balancing act, almost doublethink of 'if the character is so smart, why are they committing these blunders'. Inks is Intelligence 5 after all.

Fundamentally, for all her brilliance, I am willing to roleplay Inks being Wrong. This sideplot could have been handled more organically, but it was already fairly well handled anyway, so I am pleased with how it progressed.

The discussion with Soft Ash is also a good stylistic presentation- it articulates a Problem and makes a very clear, actionable statement of needs. I don't have to worry about vagueness getting in the way of devising a solution.

Next we move to the Neomah bordello. Subtext: This place is both an independent source of income, a vital support organ for the Hepatizon refinery, and gradully building source of intrigue or blackmail on particular clients. Not that Inks has invoked that yet if ever.

I made a point of describing the bordello myself because logically Inks would've been the one to do so, and then let it 'self maintain'. Aleph appended onto that description admirably well. She also made a point of reinforcing the character of the Heranhals by emphasizing the neomah's jewelry as crafted by Inks's own bound demons.

Amusingly, and in hindsight a given, the neomah as a group tried to flirt with and/or seduce Inks. I'm surprised Aleph didn't demand a temperance roll, but it was a fun little exchange.

Here Aleph was very artful and clear about how the demons behaved while bound. You'll note that I started the 'negotation' more or less with an equal posture, Inks wasn't going to jerk the neomah around and she was aiming not to be jerked around herself. But as the discussion carried on, it became increasingly clear that their alien nature was going to make a 'human' style deal increasingly difficult.

With that in mind, I hit upon the idea of writing a list of traits and features that the Neomah could not do, and since they were already bound to my service, they wanted to follow my orders. You'll notice that I started treating the demons as 'people' or at least 'moral', and while Inks still wants to do that, she also doesn't exactly have to or can't always do so. It's treading on that uncomfortable line of slavery.

This whole session was fairly crunch light, but that's not a bad thing either. One thing I think players tend to ignore is the trope or importance of sending letters or written communication. Most people are conditioned by media and other games to do everything face to face, on camera, because it's a Visual Medium.

Now, as a suggestion to Aleph, but I'm not sure how she feels about this- she can always do cutscenes that show the player something while not showing Inks. That may not be compatible with her style of play though.

And finally, we're reaching what I call 'critical mass'. Aleph has gotten comfortable enough to start calling on previously invoked NPCs, further embelishing them and bringing them to the fore. I was quite pleased that she knew i needed to be told Telalsi's name, but having lived in Gem for a year and secured Ahlam as a contact, Inks would've known it already.

What follows is a fairly self-descriptive sequence of Inks securing yet more loyalty to her and her causes. Telalsi is coming together quite nicely and I'm looking forward to seeing how she turns out.

Anchors: I've learned/considered that the 'advantageous' way to act as a player is to gather up backgrounds thinking you'll get spells Later, instead of learning spells that require specific anchors. Inks isn't learning sorcery for the sake of knowing it, she's learning it to sovle problems and increase her personal value.

So the whole ending chunk of the session is my drive to run a test-case on 'take over an organization', and I wanted to make that dovetail into existing game elements like House Salhak and Inks's positive relationship with Ahlam Salhak. We shall see if it works out.

El-Galabi, while an interesting plot, is currently pushed to the back burner.

As much for Aleph's reference, future plots and Projects include:
* finding out more about Inks's Mysterious Ally
* discovering more about Maji's family
* starting a new project for Anhule Silk harvesting and the creation of similar products. (Steelsilk sails, silken armor, etc)
* El-Galabi
* Sorcerous working: Best Bath Ever
These are always fun to read.
Looking forward to seeing the results of that Best Bath sorcerous working; with Gem being as dry as it is, a new source of water(because I doubt Inks as characterized will be doing anything small) is likely to make more of a splash(heh) than would first seem obvious.
Especially if it's relatively accessible to the middle and lower classes.
 
...hrm. Question, @EarthScorpion- depending on your relationship with an Anchor, might that make it count as a higher rating than it is for certain types of spells?

So, for a totally random example that is totally not relevant at all to the future of any game @ManusDomine may be GMing for me, Dilara, a No Moon Lunar Exalted, wants a spell to cleanse a shadowland. She is planning to use her Solar Ally, Aygul (Zenith Caste, may or may not look exactly like the titular character of A Bride's Tale) to Anchor the spell.

Now, my question is, would the fact that Dilara and Aygul are deeply in love make the spell more effective than it otherwise might be, given that love, as a life-affirming act, is inimical to the lands of death?

Well, as a first note, the canonical Shadowlands cleansing spell is Adamant Circle, so a Lunar can't learn it. However, I'm assuming that you're going to be using some kind of sorcerous project/working system, where rather than learning a spell you might learn only once or twice, you do a major scale project instead that probably lasts for multiple seasons.

So, okay, confession here - for ages, I assumed that the Allies thing worked like the nWoD allies (where Allies are purchased on a per-Ally basis, rated on their personal skills), and I still run it like that. As a result, much like Mentor I use a triumvirate to assign their balance - Power, Willingness to Help, and Accessibility. A very powerful Ally who's not actually that inclined to help you may be lower rated than one who's weaker, but very friendly and doesn't mind pitching in.

The classic example of this is @Aleph's Mentor 1 (Adorjan). Adorjan is super powerful. She's also completely useless if you want active mentoring from her - she mostly just blows in, decides to teach Keris an Adorjani Charm she thinks is useful for her, then runs off again. Or sometimes sends a Gale to stalk her. Or appears in her dreams and explains how it's a good idea to cut away all your attachments and how one day they'll be the same. She's much stronger than Keris' Mentor 3 (Lilunu), but Lilunu is much more useful as a Third Circle who's actually on good terms with Keris and they get together, drink tea, and squee about art - and so Lilunu is willing to put in a good word for Keris when she wants things from other Unquestionable.

Hence, if your Lunar has a devoted Solar waifu, they're effectively a higher-rated Ally than one who's on a quid-pro-pro deal where every favour must be paid for. So, yes, ur waifu is not shit, but is instead a convenient source of magical power.

(She may still ruin your laifu if you try to get more power by acquiring more waifus)

So, yeah, a Lunar using her own power combined with the power of her Solar waifu to cleanse a shadowland is going to be all eclipse-y and may in fact literally cause a Solar Eclipse at the culmination of the spell, as the Silver Chair is called into the sky to join with the power of the Sun in purging that shadowland.
 
So, yeah, a Lunar using her own power combined with the power of her Solar waifu to cleanse a shadowland is going to be all eclipse-y and may in fact literally cause a Solar Eclipse at the culmination of the spell, as the Silver Chair is called into the sky to join with the power of the Sun in purging that shadowland.


...would that be a *creation-wide* Solar Eclipse? o_O Or just localised?
 
So, okay, confession here - for ages, I assumed that the Allies thing worked like the nWoD allies (where Allies are purchased on a per-Ally basis, rated on their personal skills), and I still run it like that. As a result, much like Mentor I use a triumvirate to assign their balance - Power, Willingness to Help, and Accessibility. A very powerful Ally who's not actually that inclined to help you may be lower rated than one who's weaker, but very friendly and doesn't mind pitching in.
Wait it doesn't work like that? How the fuck does Allies then work?
 
Wait it doesn't work like that? How the fuck does Allies then work?
To quote the 2e corebook: "Each dot in this background typically represents one ally equal in power to a starting character. More powerful allies require higher ratings. Depending on her score in this background and the power of the allies, your character can have one and five allies."

So basically, canon Allies represents the sum total of all of your allies, as modified by your power. This basically means, going by pure canon, you cannot have more allies than five, and you cannot have many powerful allies. Fun.
 
To quote the 2e corebook: "Each dot in this background typically represents one ally equal in power to a starting character. More powerful allies require higher ratings. Depending on her score in this background and the power of the allies, your character can have one and five allies."

So basically, canon Allies represents the sum total of all of your allies, as modified by your power. This basically means, going by pure canon, you cannot have more allies than five, and you cannot have many powerful allies. Fun.

...okay, yeah, ES' system is better.
 
To quote the 2e corebook: "Each dot in this background typically represents one ally equal in power to a starting character. More powerful allies require higher ratings. Depending on her score in this background and the power of the allies, your character can have one and five allies."

So basically, canon Allies represents the sum total of all of your allies, as modified by your power. This basically means, going by pure canon, you cannot have more allies than five, and you cannot have many powerful allies. Fun.
Yeah I just checked.

Uh, so uh I'm going to pretend it uses the nWoD system. :V
 
...would that be a *creation-wide* Solar Eclipse? o_O Or just localised?

It'd be a Solar Eclipse, so... you know, about 70 miles wide for the zone of totality, with people outside that band getting a partial eclipse depending on how far they are away from the affected area.

(Sorcerers - ruining astrological calculations. No sense of right and wrong, I tell you)

Actually, that sorta leads me to another question- are other PCs valid Allies *for use as Sorcery Anchors*?

I can't see why not.

(I tend to be pretty lax with Backgrounds - I'll give them casually, but they're not protected without some kind of lock-in. So PCs as Allies is easy - it just means that you better not fall out with them or you lose the Background)
 
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Is there any entity that directly channels the powers of Oblivion?
Hekatonkhires? The Gazers and most non-ghost denizens of the Underworld? Abyssals with high enough Essence and Whispers rating, given their Resonance mechanics release the raw power of Oblivion into the world?
 
Hekatonkhires? The Gazers and most non-ghost denizens of the Underworld? Abyssals with high enough Essence and Whispers rating, given their Resonance mechanics release the raw power of Oblivion into the world?
I thought those were generally expressions or results of the neverborn and their necrotic essence.
 
I thought those were generally expressions or results of the neverborn and their necrotic essence.
Aren't the Neverborn the essence of Oblivion anyway, given their mad, defiled essence created the place when it refused to die properly?

Or are you talking about the Shinmaic state of non-existence, like Nirguna?
 
Aren't the Neverborn the essence of Oblivion anyway, given their mad, defiled essence created the place when it refused to die properly?

Or are you talking about the Shinmaic state of non-existence, like Nirguna?
I don't think the Neverborn created Oblivion, I think they just ripped open a passage to it.
 
KERIS NO STOP ANCHORING SPELLS IN YOUR PATRON YOZI MENTOR WHY WOULD YOU EVEN DO THAT SHE IS PROBABLY THE SECOND-WORST THING IN THE SETTING TO ANCHOR SPELLS IN BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU GET HER ATTENTION.

Pfft. It'll be fine. In fact, if Adorjan notices you, she'll probably show up and teach you new and powerful spells that are designed specifically to invoke her and would have to be utterly reworked to function with anything else. Adorjan would totally be okay with being a Mentor for Eko and Calesco, too, as part of the child support payments, giving her daughters what any girl needs - a good source of cosmic power. There's really no downside there!

And if any snooty Sidereal gets in your hair for objecting to you casting Total Annihilation by summoning a vortex of Adorjan to wipe out an entire area, just point out that they summon Adorjan too.

(They do, too; Chains of Adorjan is a power of the Resplendent Destiny of the Rising Smoke, in the House of Endings)
 
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