It's... uh, complicated.

The hun soul is the seat of thought, intention, will and so on. On the other hand, hit someone in the head hard enough and you're giving them brain damage. Therefore however the hun thinks, it needs the brain to do it.

The line, to the best of my knowledge, never establishes what happens when a severely brain-damaged person dies and leaves a hun-ghost behind. Does damaging the brain damage the hun, as if it's dwelling in the meat? Unclear.
 
I vaguely remember some homebrew regarding a Infernal Exalted Caste that had Kimbery as the source. I beleive that this was calle a Tsunami Caste but I am afraid that I do not remember anything more and cannot find anything on this new Caste online. Is anyone here able to provide me with some more information on the original homebrew or interested in starting a new version?
Someone in this thread was making one, a long time ago. ES called it the 'Devourer' Caste to continue the 'naming Infernal Castes after Demon the Fallen Houses' trend.
 
Xianxia is an extension of this genre drawing upon Daoist Internal Alchemy beliefs, defined by the inclusion of fantastical elements and silly powerlevels in which the characters can call the wind and summon the rain or topple mountains and overturn seas. Most of the genre is terribly trashy (I speak from experience here).

Yep.

Most xianxia that I've read is pretty firmly on the "literary fast food" end of things. They can be enjoyable, but are still pretty bad.
 
Probably the best way to describe xianxia I've found is that it is an MMORPG as a serial novel. Its rise being concurrent with Japan's isekai fiction blowing out of proportion and becoming obsessed with people trapped in actual MMOs is... Interesting.
 
The Hun soul is generally considered to the seat of higher thought, compared to the Po soul being the seat of lower thought.
It's... uh, complicated.

The hun soul is the seat of thought, intention, will and so on. On the other hand, hit someone in the head hard enough and you're giving them brain damage. Therefore however the hun thinks, it needs the brain to do it.

The line, to the best of my knowledge, never establishes what happens when a severely brain-damaged person dies and leaves a hun-ghost behind. Does damaging the brain damage the hun, as if it's dwelling in the meat? Unclear.

Hrm. That's both... limiting and useful. The idea that I had was I think inspired by a discussion a while back on pulling an Alex Mercer in Exalted, and that the whole "Devour my enemies and absorb their memories" shtick was probably a Lunar Charm.

I figured I could try to figure out how that could work, but I ran into the roadblock of not knowing where the memories were stored in Exalted. If they're stored in the Hun, that's a problem given that I'm pretty sure "I will DEVOUR YOUR SOUL" is more of an Abyssal thing. On the other hand, if it was a thing Lunars could do, it opens up a lot more freedom narrative-and-stunt-wise, as I'd probably frame the charm less as absorbing their memories and more as brutally killing the target in order to rip their soul into chunks that you could then take for yourself.

Doing that would also probably create some sort of undead, now that I think about it.
 
Hrm. That's both... limiting and useful. The idea that I had was I think inspired by a discussion a while back on pulling an Alex Mercer in Exalted, and that the whole "Devour my enemies and absorb their memories" shtick was probably a Lunar Charm.

I figured I could try to figure out how that could work, but I ran into the roadblock of not knowing where the memories were stored in Exalted. If they're stored in the Hun, that's a problem given that I'm pretty sure "I will DEVOUR YOUR SOUL" is more of an Abyssal thing. On the other hand, if it was a thing Lunars could do, it opens up a lot more freedom narrative-and-stunt-wise, as I'd probably frame the charm less as absorbing their memories and more as brutally killing the target in order to rip their soul into chunks that you could then take for yourself.

Doing that would also probably create some sort of undead, now that I think about it.

Look, "I eat you and get your memories" is applicable for a lot of splats. Lunars can get it, Abyssals can get it, @Revlid certainly gave Infernals it in Metagaos.

Hell, arguably Solars can backdoor into it via "I am the greatest warrior and take some of their skill when I slay someone, which is a heroic thing in some cultures on Earth" and "I'm the Chosen of a heart-sacrificing sun-god so I can tear out your heart and bite into it for strength".
 
Hrm. That's both... limiting and useful. The idea that I had was I think inspired by a discussion a while back on pulling an Alex Mercer in Exalted, and that the whole "Devour my enemies and absorb their memories" shtick was probably a Lunar Charm.

I figured I could try to figure out how that could work, but I ran into the roadblock of not knowing where the memories were stored in Exalted. If they're stored in the Hun, that's a problem given that I'm pretty sure "I will DEVOUR YOUR SOUL" is more of an Abyssal thing. On the other hand, if it was a thing Lunars could do, it opens up a lot more freedom narrative-and-stunt-wise, as I'd probably frame the charm less as absorbing their memories and more as brutally killing the target in order to rip their soul into chunks that you could then take for yourself.

Doing that would also probably create some sort of undead, now that I think about it.
Keep in mind that a lot of charms work off ideas and conceptual links, too. For example, the progression of Lock-Opening Touch to Door-Evading Technique doesn't make much sense as explicit effects - opening locks towalking through doors - but it makes sense as a conceptual progression of bypassing things that keep you out.
So a conceptual link between brains and memories or thought is enough basis for a charm. I'd go with hearts, though, because that was a real thing people did that I remember. If you want more inspiration on how, look more at exocannibal cultures.
 
It's... uh, complicated.

The hun soul is the seat of thought, intention, will and so on. On the other hand, hit someone in the head hard enough and you're giving them brain damage. Therefore however the hun thinks, it needs the brain to do it.

The line, to the best of my knowledge, never establishes what happens when a severely brain-damaged person dies and leaves a hun-ghost behind. Does damaging the brain damage the hun, as if it's dwelling in the meat? Unclear.

Well, oWoD logic time. Mind and Spirit are separate spheres, and Spirit 5 is necessary to damage souls while you can presumably cause brain damage at Mind 4. It might be that the soul is more akin to a computer program, and damaging the brain is just causing hardware damage, meaning that your hun-program is running slower and in a more glitchy fashion. This would suggest that if you kill someone with brain damage and they leave a hun-ghost, the hun-ghost might well be much smarter and very, very peeved at having spent decades trapped in a useless shell.
 
Xianxia is an extension of this genre drawing upon Daoist Internal Alchemy beliefs, defined by the inclusion of fantastical elements and silly powerlevels in which the characters can call the wind and summon the rain or topple mountains and overturn seas. Most of the genre is terribly trashy (I speak from experience here).
This sounds like a kind of overblown Fullmetal Alchemist thing. Is that a decent analogy?
 
Then again in Mage, a soul is basically a vestigial thing which you hang superweapons off of so arguably the soul structure of humans in oWoD is way different from in Exalted.
 
Well, oWoD logic time. Mind and Spirit are separate spheres, and Spirit 5 is necessary to damage souls while you can presumably cause brain damage at Mind 4. It might be that the soul is more akin to a computer program, and damaging the brain is just causing hardware damage, meaning that your hun-program is running slower and in a more glitchy fashion. This would suggest that if you kill someone with brain damage and they leave a hun-ghost, the hun-ghost might well be much smarter and very, very peeved at having spent decades trapped in a useless shell.

Well, I mean, I'd naturally go to the hard opposite extreme and say that if you stab someone in the brain, you stab them in the seat of the soul and mutilate their soul as well. After all, you can stab ghosts, so that means you can stab a ghost inhabiting a body.

(and also that some thaumaturgists can tear their hun loose from their body and walk around as an immaterial presence while their body goes into a coma, tied to their po by a silver thread that's the only thing that's keeping them alive)
 
Well, I mean, I'd naturally go to the hard opposite extreme and say that if you stab someone in the brain, you stab them in the seat of the soul and mutilate their soul as well. After all, you can stab ghosts, so that means you can stab a ghost inhabiting a body.

I would say mortals can't do this, but if you have and use GET by base rules- or if you're an Essence-user by Kerisgame hacks- you absolutely can.
 
Well, I mean, I'd naturally go to the hard opposite extreme and say that if you stab someone in the brain, you stab them in the seat of the soul and mutilate their soul as well. After all, you can stab ghosts, so that means you can stab a ghost inhabiting a body.

(and also that some thaumaturgists can tear their hun loose from their body and walk around as an immaterial presence while their body goes into a coma, tied to their po by a silver thread that's the only thing that's keeping them alive)
I think the issue is that it

A) shuts down a decent hook for a ghost story ("You did not even kill me; you left me a drooling shell, soiling myself in a bed. I will endeavor to show you a similar degree of respect.") in the name of... no real purpose I can perceive,

B) means that any death from significant head trauma also utterly destroys their hun-soul, which means that things like respecting the dead or bringing in spirit-breakers to soothe the souls of your dead enemies is replaced by just having your assassins and Wyld Hunts exclusively use sledgehammers,

C) forces you to change the setting so that any civilization with even a hint of occult knowledge will just have all of their major criminals either head-crushed or lobotomized and then left to starve, so you can't have stories about serial killer ghosts or ghosts out for vengeance on their traitorous kin or the like as easily, and

D) is not only completely unnecessary if you want to have thaumaturges who astrally project via their hun, but also makes it insanely stupid because any damage to the projection will cause instantaneous insanity or retardation.
 
Easy solution: the ghosts of the brain-damaged are actually more dangerous, on average, than ghosts who died with their faculties intact.

As a fun side effect, this means that the exact way you stab someone to death can affect their afterlife. Maybe some groups have religious beliefs concerning the appropriate ways to kill in battle that are intended to keep ghosts as non-horrifying as possible.
 
B) means that any death from significant head trauma also utterly destroys their hun-soul, which means that things like respecting the dead or bringing in spirit-breakers to soothe the souls of your dead enemies is replaced by just having your assassins and Wyld Hunts exclusively use sledgehammers,

C) forces you to change the setting so that any civilization with even a hint of occult knowledge will just have all of their major criminals either head-crushed or lobotomized and then left to starve, so you can't have stories about serial killer ghosts or ghosts out for vengeance on their traitorous kin or the like as easily, and
Po souls - i.e. the ones that turn into hungry ghosts and are the primary practical reason it's important to respect the dead - give no fucks about head trauma under ES's idea.
Also, mutilate and destroy aren't even synonyms; depending on the actual consequences of head trauma-induced soul mutilation, your proposed solutions might actively make things worse.
 
If the Hun required the brain to think, then actual ghosts would be unable to function in the underworld. A living person has a number of discrete parts - a body, all the organs within the body, a hun soul and a po soul and a mind (which may be discrete from the hun soul) - this list is not exhaustive because it's almost midnight. You can probably fuck up any one part and it's gonna cause lots of very likely fatal problems for the whole... holistic mortal experience, but lobotomizing someone probably isn't gonna do anything to the soul in and of itself.

And someone who's been lobotomized for any length of time probably doesn't have the necessary spark to stick around as a ghost in the first place.
 
Po souls - i.e. the ones that turn into hungry ghosts and are the primary practical reason it's important to respect the dead - give no fucks about head trauma under ES's idea.
Hungry ghosts? You mean the braindead murder phantoms with the wits of a boiled egg? Sure, those will still rise, but you can kiss actual intelligent ghosts goodbye unless their reason for lingering doesn't involve criminality at all.

Also, mutilate and destroy aren't even synonyms; depending on the actual consequences of head trauma-induced soul mutilation, your proposed solutions might actively make things worse.
How? Worst case scenario, their ghost is angry. Thing is, they'd be angry if they died of being stabbed or poisoned, too. Meanwhile, lobotomizing criminals and then having their technically-living remains quietly suffocated while a priest chants and slings incense around erases like 90% of malevolent hauntings, hun and po alike. As for mutilation not equaling destruction? Fine, hope you like neurotoxins being involved in any major killing.


On further thought, this whole "brain damage = soul damage" thing is even dumber than I thought, since under that model hun-ghosts become insanely easy to deal with - just land one solid hit and it'll spend the rest of eternity quietly shitting its pants in the corner (or pass right into Lethe, assuming it doesn't have any physical Fetters). If damaging a persons' hun is literally what brain damage means in the setting, then hun-ghosts are hilariously frail and easy to twist to your own ends. The Underworld would be run by a mixture of First Age yidak & living Necromancers, since at least they don't lose basic neurological function whenever they get a paper cut.

Having physical damage to the brain harm the hun, if you decide to use it, should probably mean that if somebody's brain is damaged before they die, then their ghost (if they leave one) will need time to recover from the trauma, or have temporary amnesia or something. Making it easier to shut down hauntings in such a simple way is a bad move when Creation already has interesting and well-established ways of doing so.
 
Hungry ghosts? You mean the braindead murder phantoms with the wits of a boiled egg?
Our greatest defense against predators like wolves is that they'd rather not attack humans. When they do attack, you're looking at figures like 77 of 112 having fatal results (recorded wolf attacks in Switzerland and Italy between 1801 and 1825).
That's not a defense against hungry ghosts, which are just as intelligent and significantly more deadly.

Sure, those will still rise, but you can kiss actual intelligent ghosts goodbye unless their reason for lingering doesn't involve criminality at all.
That's not what anyone but you said.

How? Worst case scenario, their ghost is angry. Thing is, they'd be angry if they died of being stabbed or poisoned, too. Meanwhile, lobotomizing criminals and then having their technically-living remains quietly suffocated while a priest chants and slings incense around erases like 90% of malevolent hauntings, hun and po alike. As for mutilation not equaling destruction? Fine, hope you like neurotoxins being involved in any major killing.
Subtle shift of the goal posts, buddy.
a priest chants and slings incense around
This would be a ritual to respect the dead.

things like respecting the dead or bringing in spirit-breakers to soothe the souls of your dead enemies is replaced by just having your assassins and Wyld Hunts exclusively use sledgehammers,
This is you talking about disregarding those rituals.

(Also, again, you're the only person who is equating the mutilation from brain damage with non-functional ghosts.)


On further thought, this whole "brain damage = soul damage" thing is even dumber than I thought, since under that model hun-ghosts become insanely easy to deal with - just land one solid hit and it'll spend the rest of eternity quietly shitting its pants in the corner (or pass right into Lethe, assuming it doesn't have any physical Fetters). If damaging a persons' hun is literally what brain damage means in the setting, then hun-ghosts are hilariously frail and easy to twist to your own ends. The Underworld would be run by a mixture of First Age yidak & living Necromancers, since at least they don't lose basic neurological function whenever they get a paper cut.

Having physical damage to the brain harm the hun, if you decide to use it, should probably mean that if somebody's brain is damaged before they die, then their ghost (if they leave one) will need time to recover from the trauma, or have temporary amnesia or something. Making it easier to shut down hauntings in such a simple way is a bad move when Creation already has interesting and well-established ways of doing so.
First, ES was quite clearly talking about a hun soul still attached to a body:
that means you can stab a ghost inhabiting a body.

Second, see previous points re: your assumptions vs. what was actually said.
 
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