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General Exalted Thread

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Aaron Peori said:
Eh, only because we have an arbitrary fascination with the number 5 for no discernible reason in the gameline. There is absolutely no reason there should not be 9 Maidens
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There's one maiden each for the five planets known in antiquity, which is part of a greater pattern of there being one type of Exalted for each of the categories of moving celestial object in Greek astronomy.
 
So, I just skimmed instead of actually looking closely, but are there any Infernal Charms that raise the cap on how many dots of virtues you can have? I know SWLIHN has the "make all Virtue dice autosuccesses" version of Transhuman Virtue Charms, but I also know Solars have a way of getting to six or higher, and I was wondering if Infernals do as well.
 
beowolf said:
So, I just skimmed instead of actually looking closely, but are there any Infernal Charms that raise the cap on how many dots of virtues you can have? I know SWLIHN has the "make all Virtue dice autosuccesses" version of Transhuman Virtue Charms, but I also know Solars have a way of getting to six or higher, and I was wondering if Infernals do as well.
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IIRC there're some Adorjan Charms in that space?
 
EarthScorpion said:
Or are you asking "is there a Status (Exalt) background that Exalts secretly have?". Because the answer there is kinda yes - but what that's there for is that's what gives them the authority to bind demons. Demons are forced to recognise the Exalted as the victors of the war, and that's what binding runs off.

That's why most non-Exalts can't bind demons. The only other way of doing it is either having Backing (a citizen or Unquestionable of Hell) and having them lend you their authority as you bind them under the auspices of Cecelynian Law, or personally making a contract with the demon in question that gets you it as an Ally and lets you bind it. The former is a common part of infernalism, while the latter is... also a form of infernalism, but a milder one because you can also get it by beating up a demon until it agrees to it.
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Huh. Then does Backing (Exalt) works if you try to bind a demon as a non-Exalt sorcerer? Or is an Exalt lending their authority to others not a thing?
 
Alasnuyo said:
Huh. Then does Backing (Exalt) works if you try to bind a demon as a non-Exalt sorcerer? Or is an Exalt lending their authority to others not a thing?
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Only if the Exalt in question is binding under the Law of Cecelyne. The Surrender Oaths are non-transferable [1], but the Law of Cecelyne lets the strong fuck over the weak and hand over their slaves to other people. And of course, an Infernal with their own demons can transfer authority to bind their own demons - as Keris did when she explicitly let Sasi summon and bind her 1CDs.

[1] Because demons are not going to be generous when interpreting the authority of an Exalt.

EDIT: Just a small note too, you can't bind anything under the laws of Cecelyne that you're not legally entitled to. This isn't a problem for Infernals mostly - since they're using Yozi initiations, that means they just can't bind 3CDs. But, for example, a 2CD can't bind 1CDs belonging to other 2CDs without a treaty, and that means that an infernalist sorcerer who has a pact with Octavian can only summon, at most, the demons that Octavian can.

The lords of Hell wanted the Exalted of Creation to learn that kind of sorcery too, because that would have let them terminate the binding whenever they wanted. But oops, the Exalted worked out how to use the Surrender Oaths as an alternate anchor for binding, and they're much more reliable and solid than the Laws of Cecelyne.

Anyone can learn Infernal summoning with the authority of Hell. But if the status isn't innate, your patron can withdraw the authority of the binding at any time.

Infernals can theoretically learn Surrender Oath binding, but they can't use their own Yozi essence for it and there's no reason to want to do that for 1CDs and 2CDs, so what that really means is that a really obsessed Infernal who's willing to take the stupid-big risk of trying to summon a 3CD and bind it only using borrowed power can make the attempt. And then probably fail, and even if they succeed they'll throw Hell into chaos when news gets out.
 
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Accelerator said:
How many dot is an artifact needed to turn heat into water?
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Given that this would mean the ability to act completely independently of water logistics in the South? That's a big deal. A fridge is a 1 dot artifact already, and the capacity of a Winter's Breath Jar isn't exactly great. The ability to take just plain heat and get water out of it? 2 dots minimum, possibly even 3 because when it's hot and you want lots of water the damn thing is at its most productive.
 
Depends on how much water it can effectively produce, really. Can you produce just enough water for your circle or a single person? Or maybe a large group of people, maybe hundred or so? Or could you build an entire city in the desert and provide enough drinking water and water for agriculture?
 
Elero said:
Depends on how much water it can effectively produce, really. Can you produce just enough water for your circle or a single person? Or maybe a large group of people, maybe hundred or so? Or could you build an entire city in the desert and provide enough drinking water and water for agriculture?
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City.
 
Accelerator said:
That's where i got the idea from.

What would an artifact 3 one be like?
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Call it 200 people at the uppermost limit. By the standards of the East that's a raiding party. By the standards of the Realm that's a good sized force that can hold a fair chunk of territory. By the standards of the North, the West and the South of Creation that's a respectable size for an assault force outside the really big cities of the region. Until the invention of the steam engine moving large amounts of supplies is hard, and to support a group of people in areas where you need to carry in every liter of water they use requires a major logistical effort. There's a reason that the old trade routes through deserts and other harsh terrain always swung by oases and other watering holes, there's simply no reasonable way to supply humans with sufficient water otherwise.
 
Hazard said:
Call it 200 people at the uppermost limit. By the standards of the East that's a raiding party. By the standards of the Realm that's a good sized force that can hold a fair chunk of territory. By the standards of the North, the West and the South of Creation that's a respectable size for an assault force outside the really big cities of the region. Until the invention of the steam engine moving large amounts of supplies is hard, and to support a group of people in areas where you need to carry in every liter of water they use requires a major logistical effort. There's a reason that the old trade routes through deserts and other harsh terrain always swung by oases and other watering holes, there's simply no reasonable way to supply humans with sufficient water otherwise.
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Then in that case, what would be a working that creates an oasis/ watering hole?
 
Accelerator said:
Then in that case, what would be a working that creates an oasis/ watering hole?
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Depends on a few issues, including the availability of water in the region in general. If you just need a source of water to become permanent rather than seasonal it's probably an Ambition 2 or 3 Terrestrial working. Flatout conjuring up a wellspring in a massive sandy, dried out desert though? That's an Ambition 2 Celestial working. And that's for small scale things that could supply a village of a few hundred people at most.
 
Accelerator said:
Then in that case, what would be a working that creates an oasis/ watering hole?
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Assuming you're going with 3e canon working definitions and you're making a desert oasis well away from other water sources, it would be Sapphire circle, probably Ambition 2 (for a fairly small oasis).

A big oasis, the kind that can water a city, is probably 3rd Circle, Ambition 1. Amusingly, it costs one less xp than the small oasis working (if you're a Solar circle sorcerer).
 
Accelerator said:
Then in that case, what would be a working that creates an oasis/ watering hole?
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  1. Summon Elemental plus jade chains. Summon the elementals, chain them up, and whip them so they make water for you.
  2. Build a desert city of culture, refinement and grace.
  3. When someone discovers what you're doing and is horrified that your city is built on the suffering of others, lecture them about how all progress is built on suffering and point out all the many ways that their culture is built on suffering, then pontificate on the cruelty of nature and how the gods tolerate parasitic wasps that lay their eggs inside caterpillars.
  4. Have kung fu fight when the would-be hero tries to shut you up.
 
EarthScorpion said:
  1. Summon Elemental plus jade chains. Summon the elementals, chain them up, and whip them so they make water for you.
  2. Build a desert city of culture, refinement and grace.
  3. When someone discovers what you're doing and is horrified that your city is built on the suffering of others, lecture them about how all progress is built on suffering and point out all the many ways that their culture is built on suffering, then pontificate on the cruelty of nature and how the gods tolerate parasitic wasps that lay their eggs inside caterpillars.
  4. Have kung fu fight when the would-be hero tries to shut you up.
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..... omelas?
 
OK, I finally got around to reading TAW recently, and it's inspired me to revisit the topic: "the Kerisgame Infernal domains/souls thing is pretty cool / powerful, can other splats get something like it?"

The dream-world granted by Dreaming Heart World and expanded by Moonlit Gate Practice seems ripe to be the Lunar version of this. Populate it with creatures from the Lunar's form library (just as the Infernal domain is a "pokecomputer" for her demons/devas, so can the heart-world be for forms). You can even add some Charmtech or Sorcery at roughly the 1CD summoning level to "summon" these. And then you can combine this with Totemic Self Announcement (or possible upgrades) and make the totems roughly 2CD-analogues.
 
Accelerator said:
Then in that case, what would be a working that creates an oasis/ watering hole?
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I don't know too much about the workings system, but my guess as to fluff would be something involving geomantic lanscaping. The Sorcerer takes a jug of water drawn from the seas around the Western Pole and uses its resonance with that element to gradually draw up Water from the dragonlines of the desert, twisting the geomantic balance of the region to create a pool of concentrated Water and gird it with similarly focused Wood Essence, to ensure the growth of plants and keep the native Fire elements somewhat at bay.
 
Shyft said:
This is one of my many hills. I am going to die on it. I am vast, I contain multitudes.

Blessed Regime Instruction 2.1

Cost: 5m
Minimums: Medicine 3, Essence 2
Type: Simple (One Hour)
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: Flawless Diagnosis Technique, Wound-Mending Care Technique

This Charm is a Dramatic Research Action in which the Solar composes a treatment plan, rolling [Intelligence + Medicine]. These plans range from diets, meditative yoga schedules, and carefully measured prescriptions. Treatment plans can either prevent or treat a malady, such as Sickness, Poison, or many kinds of Crippling conditions.

Mundane plans focused entirely on mortal effort with mundane medical knowledge is Difficulty 1. This includes diet, exercise, treating arthritis or ensuring a healthy pregnancy. Mundane plans can prevent non-magical infections as well.

Wise plans are Difficulty 3, and can emulate any medically relevant thaumaturgical procedure with a degree equal to or less than her Permanent Essence, even ones the Solar does not know, so long as they are understandably medical in nature. Such plans allow characters to avoid contracting supernatural, environmental Sickness and Poison effects, and other similar magical hazards.

Fawless treatment plan are Difficulty 5, and it can emulate a number of concurrent medical procedures equal to the threshold successes on that roll, with a degree equal to or less than her permanent Essence. This Charm explicitly considers procedures that enlighten Essence as medically relevant. Flawless plans can prevent environmental Crippling effects.

Thaumaturgical procedures invoked by this Charm function exactly as written, replacing the occult roll with the above planning action. The Solar still requires sufficient materials to create medicines unless otherwise noted.

Once the plan has been composed, the Solar then selects an intimacy her patient holds as an anchor for this treatment, which can be anything, such as loyalty towards the Solar or to the treatment itself. So long as the patient maintains faith, following the behaviors outlined counts as supernatural treatment, and all attached effects apply in full.

So, here I figured out how to attain something I wanted- inclusion of thaumaturgy. There are already a handful of medically relevant procedures in the gameline, and this Charm is explicitly intended to let you use homebrew ones more as you go.

Maybe some of the specific feats/exceptions like 'Enlightened Essence' is a bad idea, I don't know offhand. I do know that the two canonical 'Enlighten Essence' procedures- one takes five years, the other takes a much shorter time but risks killing your patient ...

Anyway, I'm pretty much happy with this. Diff 1 for 'Diets that acutally work'. Diff 3 for 'Quarantine procedures + thaumaturgical healing' and Diff 5 for "Stack on those healing buffs like a boss."
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Adore any attempt to make Solar medicine medicine and not the awful crappy white Madge so you have to demon summon tree (that every exalt and spirit outclasses)

Thanks, though not a fan of Essence limits. Solar cheat by doing stuff impossible by superb technique unrestrained by common limits. As an example holy combat charms able to destroy or effect enemies of tUCS regardless of normal strength
 
Darmani said:
Adore any attempt to make Solar medicine medicine and not the awful crappy white Madge so you have to demon summon tree (that every exalt and spirit outclasses)

Thanks, though not a fan of Essence limits. Solar cheat by doing stuff impossible by superb technique unrestrained by common limits. As an example holy combat charms able to destroy or effect enemies of tUCS regardless of normal strength
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Hah, thanks for reminding me of this. I am fond of it- the 'Take your Goddamn Pills' Charm.

Well, the thing about Essence limits is that it's one ofthe slowest traits to raise, which helps meter how fast a player has access to something- which is a very important part of designing Charms in my opinion. I also honeslty want to emphasize that do the impossible is... a nonstatement. It means nothing without knowing what is possible first.
 
Things are moving on the Kickstarter front, believe it or not. Shipping is expected to begin in a month or so.

It's looking very likely that my pledge will be less than four years late.

In other news, I have an avatar now.
 
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