*shuffles awquardly *
Yeah, I still don't know how I came to love Lunars given the core books.

It's what Lunars do to you; their corebook has been shit for two editions, yet they have a large and vocal fanbase who love them, but can't even agree on what they're about.

It's okay, I have a slight fondness for Abyssals as well, even though reading their Charms makes me laugh at them due to Mirror.

Although, I'll contend that moep:infernals are worse than the dragonblood, even if its less systemic.

Actually, scratch that, MOEP: infernals is better. They don't fuck-up charms at least, and the exalted setting has always been gm variable.

This was ultimately my conclusion as well; the Charms in Infernals are cool and I can at least use Hellstriders to like, fuck if I know; reenact the rebuild of Neon Genesis Evangelion or something, including the part where everyone without defensive Charms an AT Field gets squished in combat. :V
 
Twilights are mad scientists.
I too have always associated mad science with forensics, murdering spirits and teaching people.

Yes; the Twilight Caste is truly representative of mad scientists.

Dragonblooded are sentais.
Only Sentais.

Nothing else.

Only Sentais.

But what does a chosen of serenity/ endings represent?
Magical girls, if we follow these arbitrary distinctions. :V

(Okay, admittedly; that is actually pretty close to the truth, given that the Maidens are so obviously based on the Sailor Scouts.)
 
Turnabout being fair play I'd say that I dig Gebruzhall's aesthetic overall, you approached it from a good angle I think. The demon has a really strong hook in how they can be used and what, specifically, they are used for. They're there to tell a flavor of weird haunted house story/silent hill story where the dwelling has an uncomfortably organic feeling and seems to a. be alive and b. actively hate you, yes you in particular.
I'm very reassured to hear that. As my post suggests, I was very nervous I'd missed the mark and created the weakest 2CD concept in this lineup.

But he also has a good avenue for somewhat positive interaction? I mean he is a Manse and an Infernal who allies with them or a sorcerer who impresses them or whatever and is willing to collaborate to ensure that Gebruzhall has a steady diet of victims has access to a fucked up rubix cube horror house as a fortress.
My idea there was that a theoretical Ylagran Infernal would get a lot of use out of him, because Ylagra's charmset pushes you to make what you're afraid of define you and determine what your actions are - Ylagra's chosen can totally use him as a mobile base for launching their terror campaigns, while a Lunar is probably going to have more trouble unless they've got their back to the wall.

I guess my question would be why he in particular is the Messenger. He communicates and spreads fear but it seems like a lot of the GTW's souls do stuff like that. So what in particular is he saying about fear, like I can make some guesses: that it drags you down, that it turns everything against you, that fear eats you up from the inside out and breaks you along the way and this is all as it should be. But I was sorta curious for your take.
I initially made him the Messenger Souls for two very simple reasons - first, I already had an Expressive soul lined up in the form of Yyrizesh's brother (Leshtekuph, a giant pile of mouths that constantly screams, thus demonstrating Ghalu-Than's eternal message of *TERRIFIED HELLWORM NOISES*), and second I just felt that a being that actively seeks a captive audience to impress his "lessons" upon seemed more nebulously messenger-y.

My main underlying idea was that he's taken Ghalu-Than's behaviors and translated them into a loose doctrine: the Great Terror Worm constantly runs away and actively seeks to avoid perceived aggressors, so therefore people who just sit around and live by going with the flow are Doing Something Wrong and need to be shown the error of their ways. He tends to infest houses and temples because those are places which he feels correlate to the kind of mortal who has a comfortable routine and lead lives defined by things other than paranoia. In other words, the kind of people he hates.

A major part of my plan was to avoid the "movie monster tortures people for shiggles" idea. I wanted Gebruzhall to be motivated more by a sense of annoyed obligation: he's ruining your life because you are wrong and it's up to him to correct you and your stupid wrong face, and when he finally kills you it's more out of frustration than anything else. Hence why he makes his FCDs out of victims who manage to impress him - having someone "learn from their mistakes" (by his twisted metric) is part of what makes all the failures worth it for him, so he legitimately thinks he's rewarding those success stories by taking them apart and using them as raw materials for demon-crafting.

I actually finished up my next 2CD rather ahead of schedule, so get ready for the Hunter-Breeding Hart tomorrow!
 
As a group, Dragonbloods don't really match any particular fictional archetype all that closely. They're their own thing. If I had to make a comparison, I'd go for ninjas in Naruto or wizards in Harry Potter or something; a group of superpeople numerous enough to have their own society.

Twilights are human heroes whose main "thing" is being really smart.

I forgot to ask, but what kind of heroes are sidereal castes suposed to be?

They're not exactly heroes. They tend to fill "secondary" roles in the narrative, like the wise old mentor and the mysterious prophet and the man manipulating the apparent main villain from behind the scenes. Of all the splats, they're the most likely to play the kind of role which wouldn't even have a name in the movie of Creation.

They're important and powerful, but they tend to avoid the spotlight.
 
Sidereals serve the role of Deus Ex Machina, in the classical sense.

They manipulate the stage and the script from the metaphorical 'behind the scenes', making sure that everything goes according to their scenario.

For those who play Warframe; the Lotus is a perfect Sidereal.
 
I forgot to ask, but what kind of heroes are sidereal castes suposed to be?

Twilights are mad scientists. Nights are assasins. Dragonblooded are sentais.

But what does a chosen of serenity/ endings represent?
Overworked conspiracy ninjas.

The Technocracy would slaver at their ability to get as much done with as few resources as they have.
 
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I forgot to ask, but what kind of heroes are sidereal castes suposed to be?

Twilights are mad scientists. Nights are assasins. Dragonblooded are sentais.

But what does a chosen of serenity/ endings represent?
Generally they aren't the heroes themselves so much as important supporting characters. They are the mentor, manipulator or benefactor in the shadows, the vizier, the assassin from a mysterious conspiracy. They are also the unnamed character who's presence greatly aids or hampers the heroes but is otherwise unmemorable other than being in the right place at the right time. They fit in the setting of exalted but are designed to play a very different game in creation.
 
The joke answer I might make

Is that while the Solar is Aragon, the Sidereal is Gandalf.

But then, Exalted in general kinda don't work too well with LotR's themes, I feel.
 
But what does a chosen of serenity/ endings represent?
Serenities are Joybringers, and if that doesn't tell you everything by itself, the easiest way to say it is that they are Fairy Godmothers and Heroic Wingmen/wingwomen, who support and provide others with the tools to either utilize or achieve their own happiness to further their lives and goals. Whether that happiness comes from base pleasures like drugs or sex, or simply having a warm meal or the embrace of a loving community, Serenities work to make sure the chosen one they are pushing forwards along the necessary destiny has the support they need to accomplish it, at the time they need it the most. And sometimes they get the chance to indulge alongside as well.

Endings curtail sprawling or untamed knots of destiny, which doesn't necessarily mean death or violence. They make sure every story arc has a final word to cap it off, to make sure there is a Happily Ever After and a Loss of Innocence, and that some events fade into irrelevancy and obscurity so newer ones can rise up and take their own place. For this reason, they're usually the kind of heroes which are a Secret Rival, and force others to Change who they are, what they believe, where they are going, transition into another lifestyle or worldview along their Hero's Journey simply to measure up. The ones they guide have to be tempered by fate into shape so they can fit the destiny they will achieve.

(Please fuck for the love of God someone tell me the difference between the Reflective and Expressive Souls, I did my best with the Silkworm Princess but even if I landed there's a healthy dose of dumb luck there)
The easiest way to "get" the soul divisions is to add "Self-" before each of them. Reflective (self-reflection) is the demon displaying how they see themselves from the inside, its their internal narrative and means of introspection, while Expressive (self-expression) is their capability to externalize that to others, the things they create and articulate and the masks they put up to prevent others from digging too deeply.
 
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The joke answer I might make

Is that while the Solar is Aragon, the Sidereal is Gandalf.

But then, Exalted in general kinda don't work too well with LotR's themes, I feel.
Gandalf in the Hobbit I think is a better representation of a Sidereal trying to guide a group of young dragonblooded than anything else.
 
The 1e book concerns itself with stuff that I can actually use, such as the Realm and it's policies instead of how EPICALLY HORNY the first Dragon-Blooded were.

Okay, having now skimmed the 1e book (ain't got time to read that damn thing in an afternoon while there's Christmas shopping to be done!), you could also have just said something like 'the setting chapter is almost twice as long, and goes more in-depth to the subjects it covers' without coming off as kind of assholish, like you did here since I personally found the lost egg stuff 'actually useful'.
 
Okay, having now skimmed the 1e book (ain't got time to read that damn thing in an afternoon while there's Christmas shopping to be done!), you could also have just said something like 'the setting chapter is almost twice as long, and goes more in-depth to the subjects it covers' without coming off as kind of assholish, like you did here since I personally found the lost egg stuff 'actually useful'.

I'm so sorry that I come off as assholish, it's just that I've had this debate a million times before and I am so tired of it.

The 1e Dragon-Blooded book is better because it has a tighter thematic focus and doesn't go and do all sorts of weird stuff like the 2e book does; and while the 2e book does have the Outcaste section, that was basically copied verbatim from another 1e book; namely Exalted: The Outcaste, which also did it's job better than the 2e equivalent.
 
I'm so sorry that I come off as assholish, it's just that I've had this debate a million times before and I am so tired of it.

The 1e Dragon-Blooded book is better because it has a tighter thematic focus and doesn't go and do all sorts of weird stuff like the 2e book does; and while the 2e book does have the Outcaste section, that was basically copied verbatim from another 1e book; namely Exalted: The Outcaste, which also did it's job better than the 2e equivalent.

Hey, I get not wanting to get into a long debate you've had before, I really do.

But, like, my little two sentence blurb example wouldn't have been that. All I ever asked was what specifically (outside of mechanics) the 1e book did better and 'the setting chapter is 80% longer' is certainly a specific thing that probably would have been faster than you digging up the DRAGONS SO HORNY quote.
 
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Hey, I get not wanting to get into a long debate you've had before, I really do.

But you see; that's always how it starts.

But, like, my little two sentence blurb example wouldn't have been that. All I ever asked was what specifically (outside of mechanics) the 1e book did better and 'the setting chapter is 80% longer' is certainly a specific thing that probably would have been faster than you digging up the DRAGONS SO HORNY quote.

Oh; but then I wouldn't have the chance to mock 2e and laugh at HORNY DRAGONS. :V

(get it; because dragons have horns?)
 
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Sidereals are the supporting cast of other people's stories.

That mentor who taught the hero how to fight but conveniently dies to motivate him? Battles Sidereal.

The girlfriend who gets fridged in the first ten minutes to motivate the hero? Serenity Sidereal.

The mysterious man in the corner of the pub peddling an ancient map to hidden treasure? Journeys Sidereal.

The artist who left coded messages in his works that lead the plucky hero to discovering an ancient conspiracy? Secrets Sidereal.

The bounty hunter that leads the evil overlords army to the plucky heroes homestead so that his parents can be gunned down in front of him? Endings Sidereal.

Sidereals are all those incredibly important yet ultimately secondary roles.
 
The girlfriend who gets fridged in the first ten minutes to motivate the hero? Serenity Sidereal.
Nah, the Serenity is the forgettable street-ruffian who tells the hero to go talk with the musty old hermit on the edge of town, who incidentally happens to be the hero's missing-presumed-dead father who was crippled and unable to return home from The War, so they can have a tearful reunion and the father can tell the hero just how proud they have made him, and who the Real villain of the story is.
 
So can anyone tell me whats so bad about MoEP: Lunars?.
It was bland, Lunars did lots of things without having the impact on the setting 300 celestials should have, the charms were most of the time weakened solar charms with a glued on animal theme, the things they did lacked any charm support (Not that an Exalted need charm support to do things, but when your whole splat do one of the few things you don't have any charm support for it, something has gone wrong.), and other things anybody else can explain better and more exhaustively.
 

That's not really true - or fair.

It's trying, after the mess that was Exalted: the Lunars. It's just that... well, a lot of this is all due to the tumour that is Eclipse Charmshare. Because of Eclipses, they wrote the entire Lunar Charmset so it would be okay if a Solar learned it, and folded everything interesting you could possibly do with shapeshifting into Knacks. That's awful, because it gives Lunars a Solar-like Charmset. As a result, Lunars have a bland Charmset that's a subset of the Solar one, and a grand total of two and a half builds competitive builds (Turn into a werehybrid and claw them, turn into a werehybrid and fly and shoot them, and be very very attractive and socially attack people). MOEP: Lunars is largely functional, in a very, very bland way.

(TAW was a deliberate rejection of that, which is why the knacks and shapeshifting was simply integrated into Lunar Charms)

On the top of that, the combination of Solar centric writing in the fluff and "trying to find something for Lunars to do" didn't help matters, but that's bluntly less important. Infernals demonstrates well-enough that as long as you have good, evocative mechanics, the players will just ignore the fluff and rewrite it. Bluntly, it's far, far easier for players to basically totally rewrite the fluff than the mechanics. And that's the problem with Lunars - it gives booooooooring mechanics and dull fluff.

But if you want to play an Apocalypse-style werecreature, it's just great for you.
 
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