- Location
- Singapore
*shrugs*
General Exalted Thread
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What is the cost of having Octavian bound?
- Location
- Singapore
Is there a gallery of the characters in Exalted? I'm searching for a photo of Mnemon, and V'neef.
Though is Venus's colour blue?
Though is Venus's colour blue?
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
That he will interpret all your orders based around his core purpose of conquest and expansion. Which is great, if you want a perpetual war and draconian conquest. Otherwise, not so much.
(Also, being only Second Circle he can't collocate, so his empire falls apart without him if you have him bound for too long. Granted, not a problem for you unless you make a habit of visiting that section of Malfeas.)
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay.
Octavian is an awesome general who can also fight better than most Solars, is fiendishly intelligent and possesses a mighty empire along with a bunch of Artifacts.
Peraspera is an influential scholar, who definitely cannot fight, she know many blueprints and plans and will take limit from even attempting to advice you on military matters.
I see no issue here.
(I know, I'm not arguing against you, I'm simply using the fact that you answered as a junping-off point.)
- Location
- Spain
Remember boys, a Celestial sorcerer can keep fifteen second circles bound at the same time.
This is an excellent idea with no downsides whatsoever.
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Yes.
The Maidens have Sailor Moon Colors, except Venus and Mercury switched and it always confuses the fuck out of me.
That is a problem, but it's not really a problem with second circles but more how 2nd/3rd circle summoning doesn't have any commitments. Especially given how they're portrayed in the fiction. Add some commitment costs or the like and it becomes significantly more reasonable.
Apart from the endless amounts of conflict between the various 2CDs over resources, goals and just how to run the Celestial sorcerer's empire
Because it will be an empire to feed the forges, build an army of scribes, grow the crop et al as each 2CD pursues the Sorcerer's agenda through their favored tools
Just think Octavian will be building an army to raise the empire, while another 2CD will be in screaming rage since Octavian destroyed the library in his latest conquest that it really really wanted
- Location
- NYC
Here's the thing. Exalted is a game, and a tabletop game, which means that (generally) one guy is responsible for dealing with all of that. Which means that the GM, who already has basically no tools to help them with how empire management should really work when dealing with supernaturally talented administrators or such, needs to not only figure out how effective or efficient these 2CDs are going to be, but also come up with interesting and engaging plot hooks involving their clashes that don't run afoul of the sorcerer's "oh yeah, I instructed them not to do anything that they think I would find bad, given that I'm optimizing for A, B, and C" pseudo-legaleese because that player doesn't want to be screwed over but also doesn't want to write a full legal document for the binding.
And that sorcerer, in the average game, is one player of possible four or five, each of whom are going to be wanting their own stories and subplots and plothooks and stuff. And then the GM might want to actually tell some larger story about foreign conflict or something and not want to spend a bunch of time resolving the disputes of NPCs.
If thee were some kind of management system that had really clear and obvious hooks where having a demon as a subordinate will give some unintended consequences, great. Expecting the GM to bear all the burden of the sorcerer doing the stupidly obvious thing and getting 15 roughly peer-level subordinates who are loyal to him to aid his endeavors... not so much. There's a reason why, in most games, the summoner bears all the book keeping stuff for their summons–because the GM already has the hardest job at the table, and expecting them to manage someone's complex and irksome class features is just another load.
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
Well, you have two options there. Set up specific containment measures for each bound 2nd circle and cater to their particular Issues which will end up costing a shit-ton of money...
Or let them all acquire Limit until they freak the fuck out.
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
lol what could go wrong
you just try and stop me
lol
hey peraspera tell me about military strategy wont u?
lol
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
?
Sanceline, by her mere presence, will infect you with a memetic effect that will then inexorably turn you into a demented Transcendentalist Cyberman covered in magic disco lights, while also giving your brain a scrub-and-rinse to make you into a pseudo-akuma. Unless your character is already a high-Temperance, high-Conviction, Malfeas-neutral sort who'd welcome such a transformation, that makes her pants-shittingly terrifying to invoke.
Peraspera is an itenerant demon-tinker who also, coincidentally, tends to outright steal the shit you ask her to repair for you and then send it off to the nearest HellMart for resale. Again, unless your character has a Motivation or Intimacies that would make them believe that repairing a First Age wonder, even if it comes at the cost of it falling into demonic hands, is an unmitigated good, that will rankle your PCs. As long as you add a clause where the theft happens even if she's bound, you're golden.
Also, I'd assume that if your Solar has decided to monopolize over a dozen 2CDs, their parents are already on the way for an impromptu PTA meeting, which the Solar may well not survive...
samdamandias
Apprentice Plane Wizard
There is a Sailor Moon/Exalted plot bunny that's been rattling around in my head for years, but it mostly boils down to an Harbinger and a Joybringer being confused as all get out. (And insisting that the talking cat cannot possibly be Luna.)
I have some questions about @EarthScorpion's version of the Reclamation and the relationship between Infernals and the 3CDs.
From what I've read in Kerisgame, it seems like 3CDs just assume that Infernals will instantly leap to do their bidding, but I would've thought the Primordial war beat a lot of that hubris out of them when it comes to Exalted. I mean, they're probably pretty used to being literally Unquestionable, but one Enlightenment comparison would show that Keris is equal or better than every one of them that isn't a Fetich. There's more to it than that, but it's strong evidence that by the core tenet of the laws of Cecelyne, high end Infernals don't have to take orders form 3CDs any more than other 3CDs do. What's the incentive for such Infernals to go along with following orders? Is the pay just the hookers and blow? VIP level access to all the wonders of Malfeas? Gifts of stuff worth Background Dots? Infamy?
I'm also curious how missions are decided and assigned, as well as how that works with Urges. How does an Infernal's Urge change and is that something the Althing does? Does the Urge match their official mission?
What would the Althing in your Creation make of rogue Infernals? Outright traitors get kill squads I assume and it would be an easy sell to the GSPs that would most likely be sent to do it, but what about Infernals who just leave? Given how the Unquestionable seem to act less mature than Keris' literal demon children souls, I expect some sort of temper tantrum.
From what I've read in Kerisgame, it seems like 3CDs just assume that Infernals will instantly leap to do their bidding, but I would've thought the Primordial war beat a lot of that hubris out of them when it comes to Exalted. I mean, they're probably pretty used to being literally Unquestionable, but one Enlightenment comparison would show that Keris is equal or better than every one of them that isn't a Fetich. There's more to it than that, but it's strong evidence that by the core tenet of the laws of Cecelyne, high end Infernals don't have to take orders form 3CDs any more than other 3CDs do. What's the incentive for such Infernals to go along with following orders? Is the pay just the hookers and blow? VIP level access to all the wonders of Malfeas? Gifts of stuff worth Background Dots? Infamy?
I'm also curious how missions are decided and assigned, as well as how that works with Urges. How does an Infernal's Urge change and is that something the Althing does? Does the Urge match their official mission?
What would the Althing in your Creation make of rogue Infernals? Outright traitors get kill squads I assume and it would be an easy sell to the GSPs that would most likely be sent to do it, but what about Infernals who just leave? Given how the Unquestionable seem to act less mature than Keris' literal demon children souls, I expect some sort of temper tantrum.
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No it won't actually.
It's even better, it'll make you want to become such a creature.
(Her effect isn't much of a threat towards Exalts tbh, they have the Enlightenment to fight back meaningfully. It's every mortal who hears the song of Sanceline that will get fucked, because just hearing a part of it will make you obsessed with the iterative process.)
Peraspera isn't really a threat, but her usefulness is balanced by the fact that she's a thieving asshole who will learn your schematics and maybe take your fancy stuff.
This being Luna, they would be more confused at Luna being the sane one than at her taking the form of a talking cat.
Players only get to invoke 'pseudo legaleese' for binding a Demon to a Task; other wise Demons successfully summoned and bound get UMI into Loyalty to the summoner for a year and a day. Key word being here Loyalty, not legaleese
I'm going to use Abridged Alucard as an example: He's Loyal to the Hellsings and will do missions whenever Integra orders them, Alucard however will still be writing letters to Pope as the "Crimson Fucker" and taking 'enthusiastic walks' no matter how it vexes Sir Integra (or drains her budgets)
Any Sorcerer with 15 2CD bound into Loyalty now has 15 Alucards to deal with and supervise: This gives a huge number of interesting plot hooks
Task Bound Demons on the flipside by necessity are going to be in the hands of the Story Teller, once the Sorcerer has bound the demon in question to a task they've got no reason to listen to the Summoner anymore.
Again this gives the ST loads of hooks, including just how said 2CD is going to carry out the task
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
"WHY IS HALF MY KINGDOM TURNING INTO CRYSTAL CYBORGS!?"
"I don't understand why this is a problem, sir."
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But don't you want a kingdom filled with Enlightenment 2-4 pseudo-Alchemical crystal bodhisattva cyborgs?
They clash with the tentacle monster decor
Well, look at it from Keris' point of view. She was a street rat living off thefts and occasional temporary side jobs. Then she went to Hell, and got her own land nicer than the nicest houses in Nexus, got taught to read with demonic lore, has servants by the dozens and fabulous wealth - and a lot of very persuasive and attractive people explained to her how the Yozis used to rule Creation and they're its rightful lords.
Yes, she's loyal to the Unquestionable. She's loyal to them because they've given her everything she has.
And what do they ask of her? They want her to ruin the Dragonblooded trade with An Teng. They want her to kill people. They want to rule over areas of Creation.
... well, it's not like she actually has moral problems with any of that. Ruining Dragonblooded trade is a broad directive that gives her lots of room to do it her way, which includes a lot of piracy and personally enriching herself. Killing people... well, she doesn't fundamentally have any problem with violence. She killed people when she was on the streets. And she's been convinced that the Unquestionable used to rule over Creation and Keris certainly has no real respect for most of the gods while demons have helped her a lot.
You ask what Infernals get from the Unquestionable? What about status as a duke of Hell, and wealth and power beyond that of most Dragonblooded? Going rogue from that means taking a substantial downgrade in living standards.
And yes, Keris may be equal in spiritual power to Ululaya, but so what? A peasant might be stronger than a king and have the same spiritual power, but the king has armies, lands, and lots of loyal lords. The Unquestionable have the assets and the temporal power in the relationship. And the Unquestionable know they need to have the GSPs get to Enlightenment 10 so they can learn to summon 3CDs.
Because when they can do that, there's now a way for the Unquestionable to get out of this fucking place without being fucking bound by some fucking Solar. The Third Circles hate being trapped in Hell. The Reclamation in Kerisgame isn't run by the Yozis. It's run by the 3CDs - and they're doing it for their own benefits, not that of their greater selves.
Changing Urges is something specifically that Lilunu can do, but only when invested with power by at least 5 other Third Circles. That's one of the big reasons for the "get all the Infernals together to party over Calibration" thing - it's a time to assign new Urges and the like.
The Unquestionable have their own way of hashing out their conflicts and their arguments about the Urges Infernals should be given. It involves a lot of horse trading, feuding, warring and bribery - and making sure no one finds any Urge unacceptable enough to try to filibuster it.
Missions, on the other hand, are much shorter term than Urges, and don't have to be related. An Infernal might have an Urge to convert An Teng to the worship of the Yozis, as Sasi has, but that doesn't stop her from being giving unrelated missions in the area by the All-Thing, or taking on side jobs from Unquestionable.
It's much easier for an individual Third Circle to give a mission to an Infernal. They can either "cheat" and pay the Infernal off on the side - as Keris is being paid by Ligier and the Shashalme - or they can do it the proper way and bid for the Infernal's time from the All-Thing, essentially "renting" their labour.
Keris, in particular, is likely to start more and more being given missions all across the South West once they realise just how fast her strategic scale movement is and how she doesn't complain when having to travel for a few days (because when she runs, she dreams, so that means travel for her is basically downtime which she spends in her soul with her family).
That entirely depends on the circumstances and the way the Infernal leaves. If an Infernal just... vanishes, the Unquestionable don't have a thing they can do. The Infernal goes AWOL, stops answering Infallible Messengers, and... how exactly are they going to follow someone who has no Fate and probably has Loom Snarling Deception. They'll probably send cultists or maybe a GSP or an escaped 2CD to investigate the last area they were in, but if they can't find the Infernal in question, they're sort of out of options. And probably sort of annoyed about it, but not actually able to do anything.
By contrast, it's entirely possible for an Infernal to go quasi-rogue and still be able to go to Hell, as long as they're politically savvy enough to play the Unquestionable power politics game properly. Consider what would happen, for example, if Keris stopped showing up to the All-Thing but kept on doing jobs for the Shashalme and Ligier. Those two would be happy with that arrangement as long as she kept on getting results for them, and that would mean they'd cover for her in councils.
And on the third hand, an Infernal who doesn't play it smart and just publicly quits and starts ruling over a Southern city or something while insulting the Third Circles may well find that there are quite significant bounties on their head and someone so tactless who doesn't work on keeping the Unquestionable happy probably annoyed a bunch of Infernals too.
Consider Deveh, for example. If he went rogue and Keris was told that someone had put a 5 dot manse on his head as a bounty, she'd be super tempted. Killing Deveh isn't something she's necessarily morally opposed to (because he's an asshole). Honestly, she'd probably do it for a 3 dot manse.
Basically, by design Infernals are much more a spectrum of loyalty under this model compare to the black-white line of Loyalist/Renegade of Abyssals - and a socially adept Infernal can crawl quite a lot longer way down the line than someone who doesn't know how to depict their actions in ways that help them.
Although she'd probably check for flying pigs* first, because with Deveh's whole SWLIHN thing, I suspect he's unlikely to go rogue at all.
Although possibly not, because flying pigs are fairly common in certain parts of the East**.
**Look, some Twilight Caste in the First Age got really fed up with people using flying pigs as an example of things that'll never happen.