Is there a list of what each dot for each trait means?

Like, what is the meaning in five dots in appearance?

Or 4 dots in resources?
There are in the core books. They're generally not too accurate and utterly divorced from the system(especially for abilities/attributes), but they exist.
By the way, how do Styles interact with set/opposed dice pools? Like, is the language, "Attribute+Ability+Relevant Style"? And then people argue/contend on whether a style is relevant for the instance?
If your description invokes the style then you get it. Just like how non-physically obvious specialties work.
 
There are in the core books. They're generally not too accurate and utterly divorced from the system(especially for abilities/attributes), but they exist.

If your description invokes the style then you get it. Just like how non-physically obvious specialties work.
Just to be sure there's only one 2E and 3E corebook, right?

also, what are you guys talking about?
 
Separating this explanation from the argument posts to give examples of the setup that would come out of my ideas:

Say you have 3 in the general stat. If you go with the Specialty limit of one-half of the general form rounded up, you can have a Specialty of 2. So, for example, a person with Melee three and the maxed-out specialty for that is the equal of the total generalist at Melee 5, so long as they have the weapon they specialized in. Of course, this would allow for an effective Melee 8 at the full maxed out Specialty, but that's the domain of the sort of people who take one hundred Tiger Warriors in melee with nothing but Excellencies and the strength of their skills.

If you can't tell, I like the idea of Elder Exalts being only stoppable by hard-counters or other Elders. Why bother playing a character past 100 XP if there's little to stop a 50 XP character from stomping you just by out doing you with a high focus on one brute strength approach? Elders shouldn't dominate the setting completely, but also shouldn't be stoppable just because they didn't dump a bunch into a defense.

As for the sort of Specialties available, I'll list the sort of things I'd think of as acceptable:

Dodge (While in Medium Armor)
Craft (Weapon Artifacts)
Melee (One-Handed Swords)
Thrown (Throwing-balanced Axes)
Archery (Longbows)
Ride (Equines)

It's generalized enough for a character to run on one specialization, but narrow enough that it's far from omnidisciplinary.

As an example, a combat monster can use Melee (One-handed Axes) and Thrown (Throwing-balanced Axes) to have their Specialties apply to all their likely large supply of weapons. If they want to go all in on the axes, they can get Craft (Weapon Artifacts) and use that to make axes.
 
I meant in-game terms

If you insist.

1-2 The QC is untrained or otherwise deficient
in this area. He has a good chance
of failing even low-difficulty actions,
and will be easily overcome by players'
characters with even a moderate investment
in that area. This rating is intended
to highlight a character's lack of capacity
with something of importance to
their function as QCs.

3-6 The QC is skilled in this area, with competence
to rival well-trained mortals or
the heroic prowess of the Exalted. He
is almost certain to succeed on low-dif
ficulty actions, and is a fair challenge
for players' characters who are moderately
to significantly invested in that
area. This is the range most QCs will
probably fall into for most actions.

7-10 The QC is exceptional. Mortals with
this level of skill are rare, true masters
of their art—even Exalts will rarely have
this degree of competence in more than
a few areas. He has a fair chance of
success even at high difficulty actions,
and is a match for highly-invested sp
cialists. This is the rating of skilled veterans
(at the low end) and of elite masters
(at the high end), such as the Brides of
Ahlat on the field of battle or a Guild
factor during financial negotiation.

11-14 This level of competence is the absolute
maximum of what can be achieved
through a combination of skill, specialization,
and equipment. A QC with this
dice pool is likely to defeat even specialized
player characters if they're not
equally optimized or using magic

This is the best description of what a particular dicepool means that i could find in the corebooks.
 
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That's a Martial Art. And keep in mind the scaling, here. Melee (Daiklave) 3 is the low end of the level of skill legendary heroes known for their skill in one weapon has, much like Melee 3 is in the upper end of non-legendary mortals, provided you keep the generic form and specialty even. A better way to balance it would probably be to cap Specialties to one-half the skill, rounded up.

Everything is a Martial Art.

Lichtenauer's sword teachings then?

You will not find a single fighting system that isn't a martial arts! Ever! In the entire history of mankind fighting systems have been codified for the ease of teaching them to soldiers.

Calling them martial arts is a term that originated in the 20th century as a term for Asian fighting styles when America went all AND HERE'S A LIST OF STUFF YOU CAN'T DO EVER AFTER SINCE WE BEAT YOU at the end of World War II, and started taking a look at Japanese culture and went NOPE THIS IS WAAAAAY TOO MARTIAL, THEY NEED TO BE MARTIAL 'ARTS' INSTEAD OF 'TECHNIQUES'.

Like, what the fuck do you think the purpose of baguazhang is? The purpose of learning to use deer-horn knives is so you can gut people and murder them.

It's just hidden behind a veneer of sports and fun.

I'm sorry, you seem to like the idea of a character who's basically impossible to beat by disarming because they are just as good with their Dailave as they are with the half-dozen different types of holdout weapon they have on them. And the specialties interacting with disarming only matter when you have backup weapons in the first place. How often have you bothered to do that?

Will you argue against me? Or is that man of straw simply too fun to argue with?

I want a character that isn't balanced by "but the storyteller can take you toys away at any moment he likes, so don't have too much fun!".

Are you at the top end of the martial art, able to handle five people who are well above novice in the same art? If not, you aren't at the point of needing Specialties to describe your skill. Even then, that would be describable by a Style or Marial Art based bonus.

Fuck no, no people are able to do that.

Like, I'm pretty sure that five people with my level of skill in baguazhang could murder Donghaichuan himself (that's the style's inventor btw).

Because guess what? Those people who can beat five people alone, with a single hand? They don't exist.

Why is it so hard to understand that roleplaying someone who is awesome at literally every weapon ever should be hard to pull in the mechanics? Melee 5 should not be the peak because it makes someone who has it be at the peak of skill with every weapon in existence.

And all the arguments about characters with specialties being crippled by not having their chosen weapon available miss the point that a character should be crippled by not having their chosen weapon available in the first place.

Again, using a magic material pocket knife with the same effectiveness as your legendary sword you've fought a thousand battles with is both ridiculous and makes it far too easy to make disarming useless, even though disarming is one of the most effective things one can do to a fighter in real life.

Hell, given the setting and more than a few lore blurbs, a character normally wouldn't have specialties in the first place. And the ones who do would have two or three different Melee specialties to actually be able to use backup weapons.

Yeah but I don't want to play a fighter in real life.

I want to play Invincible Crown, the man who uses spears as well as meteor hammers with contemptible ease because he understand the sum total of all melee weapons and is empowered with a glorious shard of divinity embedded into his soul.

Meanwhile, a real fighter will struggle to fight three people.
 
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Just to be sure there's only one 2E and 3E corebook, right?
There's only one core book in each edition.

Though, at least for backgrounds, the book that introduces them will give what some of the ratings mean. Though, as I said, for attributes and abilities the rating guides that they use are generally useless or not actually representative.
 
Say you have 3 in the general stat. If you go with the Specialty limit of one-half of the general form rounded up, you can have a Specialty of 2.

Why the hell would you do that?

You want to encourage people to take specialities over abilities. You want to promote people to deliberately limit themselves and take a more narrow focus of their ability instead of a broad one, because that makes them a more focussed character concept. The conscript in a prince's army should be encouraged to take a speciality in "Spears +1" over learning Melee 1, because he's a grunt who's been told to stand in line and stab the pointy end of his pole at the enemy when they come close. He's not got omni-skills with weapons.

Having more Melee than Specialities should be the province of the truly gifted or the supernaturally talented.

(and that is exactly what the Style system is set up to encourage, so you hand the conscripts Earth-Boned Spearman Style to represent "I'm a grunt trained to stand in line with lots of other men with spears and I get a bonus to resisting fear when there's lots of other people around" and that stats them up nice and quickly)
 
Why the hell would you do that?

You want to encourage people to take specialities over abilities. You want to promote people to deliberately limit themselves and take a more narrow focus of their ability instead of a broad one, because that makes them a more focussed character concept. The conscript in a prince's army should be encouraged to take a speciality in "Spears +1" over learning Melee 1, because he's a grunt who's been told to stand in line and stab the pointy end of his pole at the enemy when they come close. He's not got omni-skills with weapons.

Having more Melee than Specialities should be the province of the truly gifted or the supernaturally talented.

(and that is exactly what the Style system is set up to encourage, so you hand the conscripts Earth-Boned Spearman Style to represent "I'm a grunt trained to stand in line with lots of other men with spears and I get a bonus to resisting fear when there's lots of other people around" and that stats them up nice and quickly)

The one change I would make to your system would be to cap Abilities at 2 for everyone, not just mortals, or (somewhat equivalently) make Ability + Style cap out at 5 dice. As it stands, Exalts still want to get the full polymathic Ability 5 and then specialize on top of that which seems to subvert the purpose. It also means that one of the biggest mechanical advantages Exalts have isn't actually their Charms but just the fact that they have bigger resting dice pools.

As a side benefit, this makes dice pools a little smaller.

(edit: in this proposal Ability-based Charm prereqs would be satisfiable by Ability + Style, so a Melee 5 Charm would be purchaseable by someone with Melee 2 + appropriate Style 3)
 
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If you can't tell, I like the idea of Elder Exalts being only stoppable by hard-counters or other Elders.
Might I ask why you feel it's a good idea to make it categorically impossible for player characters to defeat or overcome a class of being that is almost exclusively populated by antagonistic NPCs, in a game where your actions are supposed to matter?

You also need to elaborate on "hard counters", because the Exalted generally don't play the rock-paper-scissors game.

Why bother playing a character past 100 XP if there's little to stop a 50 XP character from stomping you just by out doing you with a high focus on one brute strength approach?
Presumably for the same reason that a 50xp character would see play despite being potentially vulnerable to a starting character.

Or we could ask the inverse of this question, which is why someone would bother playing a character up to 100xp if there's nothing to stop the 100xp characters from stomping them.

Exalted is not World of Warcraft, and you are not meant to be trolling noobs in the tutorial zone.
 
Elders shouldn't dominate the setting completely, but also shouldn't be stoppable just because they didn't dump a bunch into a defense.
It seems to me that every Elder Exalt should be assumed to have at least some supernatural level of personal defence, even if they don't have supernatural levels of personal lethality, simply because "shot in the arse while using the shitter" is a really embarrassing way for your glorious golden god-scholar to die.
 
*Snip because your quote-counter was a headache&

Beating all of them with one hand is not expected. Beating them with the same style, yes. And I said well above a novice, not a high-end practitioner.

And do you not see the problem of having a character be equally, amazingly, skilled with literally every weapon for NO COST!? It busts believably and game balance the moment someone decides to optimize around it because it makes disarming worthless and allows for utterly insane versatility by using five completely different weapons on a regular basis, as well as just grabbing whatever's useful when it shows up. Including weapons the character has never even seen before.

The conscript in a prince's army should be encouraged to take a speciality in "Spears +1" over learning Melee 1,

No, because mechanically, Melee (Spears) 1 plus Melee 1 is identical to Melee 2. It's that it costs a little less with a significant downside preventing it from being the be-all-end-all. Grabbing the Specialty is only objectively better when you are maxed out in the generic skill.

and that is exactly what the Style system is set up to encourage, so you hand the conscripts Earth-Boned Spearman Style to represent "I'm a grunt trained to stand in line with lots of other men with spears and I get a bonus to resisting fear when there's lots of other people around" and that stats them up nice and quickly

And now I can comment on Styles. People kept mentioning them as part of a counter argument, but ignored the fact that I have stated, several times, that I don't know all the basic things in the game. Which makes the fact that people talk a lot about a homebrew system without mentioning that it's a homebrew a rather large problem for me.

The Styles are a good way to describe the exact situation of ranked infantry and other circumstantial bonuses, while the setup for Specialties I'm trying to describe is that character has a focus on one part of a general omni-skill.

You also need to elaborate on "hard counters", because the Exalted generally don't play the rock-paper-scissors game.

I'm talking about going for the offensive counterpart to the lowest defense the Elder has. It should be that it's hard, but entirely possible for a non-Elder to beat an Elder. A one-sided-stomp just should not happen unless you go for a weak point.

Presumably for the same reason that a 50xp character would see play despite being potentially vulnerable to a starting character.

Vulnerable, yes. Able to be stomped, no. It should be impossible for a stomp like that to happen with the weaker beating the stronger unless the stronger has a weakness that is exploited by the strength of the weaker.
 
It busts believably and game balance the moment someone decides to optimize around it because it makes disarming worthless and allows for utterly insane versatility by using five completely different weapons on a regular basis, as well as just grabbing whatever's useful when it shows up.

So? That only means that the fights feel like a wuxia combat.

Encouraging the use of multiple weapons is good.

And do you not see the problem of having a character be equally, amazingly, skilled with literally every weapon for NO COST!?

Not really. Being skilled at multiple melee weapons doesn't make you more killy than being skilled with one.

because it makes disarming worthless

Only if you have another weapon of the same quality around.

And really, disarming is something fun to use once or twice, but if you balance things around it it just becomes tiring.
 
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Encouraging the use of multiple weapons is good.

And making specializing all-but-worthless is bad.

What I'm wanting is for Specializing getting the (ability) 5 Charms relating to the specialty earlier, but only using them with the Specialty, and maxing out at all of three dice more on the basic pool. Yes, three dice is kinda big, but not to the point of completely invalidating the pure generalist.
 
Vulnerable, yes. Able to be stomped, no. It should be impossible for a stomp like that to happen with the weaker beating the stronger unless the stronger has a weakness that is exploited by the strength of the weaker.
Define "weaker" and "stronger".

Power is context.

If I'm an Essence 6 Dragon-blooded conspirator who's spent the last century holed up in my country estate, plotting and investing and hosting carefully-arranged dinner parties, refining my persuasive talents and formidable foresight, why shouldn't an Essence 3 Immaculate Monk who spends eight hours a day in the dojo be able to kick my ass so hard I taste her sandal?
 
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Define "weaker" and "stronger".

Power is context.

If I'm an Essence 6 Dragon-blooded conspirator who's spent the last century holed up in my country estate, plotting and investing and hosting carefully-arranged dinner parties, refining my persuasive talents and formidable foresight, why shouldn't an Essence 3 Immaculate Monk who spends eight hours a day fighting or training be able to kick my ass so hard I taste her sandal?
That falls under going after a weak point. If the Essence 3 Monk tried to Social Fu, they wouldn't get far.
 
No, because mechanically, Melee (Spears) 1 plus Melee 1 is identical to Melee 2. It's that it costs a little less with a significant downside preventing it from being the be-all-end-all. Grabbing the Specialty is only objectively better when you are maxed out in the generic skill.
It's not about being objectively better, it's about representing the characters accurately.

A heroic warlord may be able to just pick up a fallen spear and lay into the enemy with as much skill as if he were wielding his personal blade.

A random guard with a spear shouldn't be able to trade out for a sword or fighting chain or battleaxe on a whim.

"Specialty" doesn't indicate that you're amazing at something. It only indicates that you're especially good at an activity relative to the other activities within that Ability.

That falls under going after a weak point. If the Essence 3 Monk tried to Social Fu, they wouldn't get far.
Conversely, then, let's examine a young and upcoming Essence 3 Dragon-blooded courtier with a brace of political knifepoint adventures under his belt. He stumbles upon evidence that suggests the conspiracy being woven by the previously-described Elder, and sets out to find hard proof, expose his lies, sway his dupes, and gather allies willing to prosecute him.

As he is engaging an Elder in an arena that he has invested in, he will fail and shouldn't even try. Is this the narrative you intend to champion?
 
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A heroic warlord may be able to just pick up a fallen spear and lay into the enemy with as much skill as if he were wielding his personal blade.

A random guard with a spear shouldn't be able to trade out for a sword or fighting chain or battleaxe on a whim.

OK, a bit of an aside to the main discussion over specialties and so on: I don't think the second one is that important, not enough to represent with actual game mechanics.

The purpose of minor NPC dice pools is just to give us something to roll in the situations where that roll is relevant. They don't need statblocks that cover every possible case. If you have a bunch of horsemen with Ride 2 and the PCs try to put them on elephants, I think it's easy to just say "no, come on, they don't actually know how to ride elephants, you have to train them again".


Now if you want to go to the effort for a given NPC to figure out the precise distribution of Ability vs Style/Specialty dots, sure, whatever. But the Style/Specialty system shouldn't be designed with representing them in mind - if it doesn't quite fit perfectly, then, OK, that's fine. It should be designed to represent player characters, which are the most mechanically important part of the game.
 
"Specialty" doesn't indicate that you're amazing at something. It only indicates that you're especially good at an activity relative to the other activities within that Ability.

You are talking about literal definition and the current implementation. And the consequence of the way I'm describing in may well lead to it being 'This is what I'm good at' because it amounts to having a higher number of Dots in the core skill for all purposes when that skill is being used according to the Specialty.

A heroic warlord may be able to just pick up a fallen spear and lay into the enemy with as much skill as if he were wielding his personal blade.

That's the exact situation I don't want happening. In that exact situation, there's two explanations I would accept:

1. They are actually just as skilled in both. Either they have Specialty in both Spear and whatever kind of sword is their personal one, or a Style that makes the difference irrelevant.

2. They don't have Specialties. Simple as that. Either they have only Melee, or they got the favor of ST Fiat/Stunt bonus.

I don't want utterly ridiculous versatility in weapons to the point where Wuxia seems reasonable. A person should be able to beat the hyperversitile murder machine by using something they have put everything they could in.
 
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