"All Hail the Clockwork Nirvana! Glory to Mechanus!"Lawful Stupid Paladin
Dungeons and Dragons Megathread
- Thread starter Havocfett
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Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
That fundamentally alters wizards in a harmful way, though. Because now you have a constant upkeep cost, making the class now incredibly sub-optimal bordering on unplayable
Says who? the rules don't say so. D&D gave up on being simulationist a long while ago, handwaving stuff is just fine.
Also, how will you keep track of literally dozens of cats in any feasible, playable way?
you only need to do this if you are insisting on simulationism, in which case you are a terrible person. Seriously, every time your bring IRL science into D&D, Pelor kills a tibbit. please, think of the kitties.
Narratively, she's a crazy cat lady and the cats are all in her head. or they are spirit cats from the sekrit cat dimension only felines can access, but which connects to any place where people dream. whatever. use your imagination.
Like, how does the mechanics of that work? How do you keep all the cats near you? Do they listen to you? If so, how do you keep them out of harms way during fights? It just raises too many questions
Magic.
They're Magikitties!
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- Somewhere
But I like simulationist stuff
But my issue with that is it makes the wizard even better, because now they don't have to deal with resource management of multiple different books that can be taken from them, or burned, or any number of things I might have NPCs attempt to do to PCs as a way to challenge them.
Magic.
I refuse to accept that
EDIT: Shit, is this what if feels like to be a fringe belief? Holy crap, never felt this before
- Location
- Drachyench on Discord
Some of my favorite (alternate) methods of spell storage / triggering are in the Complete Sha'ir's Handbook back in AD&D. The Tattoo of Power spell (which is quite literally tattooing spells onto someone's body as if their flesh were a scroll, allowing them to touch the relevant tattoo and speak the proper words to trigger it), Astrologers (who can "hang" spells on constellations in addition to their spell books), Jackals (which literally use other Wizards as their spell books, trailing them and (stealthily) ripping their memorized spells out to memorize them instead)...
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- Somewhere
I need a 3.5 port of this class now
And then a 5e port of the class
The CSH was awesome! I still have mine... Somewhere.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
I guess trying to weasle out of mechanical limitations (like having to carry around books, having to have multiple books, etc.) just feels scummy to me. I know, I seem to be the odd one out here, so I'll shut up
Literally no one I've ever gamed with in the past 20 years, GM and player alike, has ever cared about tracking things like exact spellbooks and their weights and pages and shit. Tax them for learning the new spell and assume they have their book and move on. No one likes games where your class abilities are taken from you because the GM was an asshole and took your spellbook away for an entire adventure. Fuck that noise. Fuck it with a spiked, rotating dildo until the noise's colon is like scrambled eggs. Fuck it until the cows come home.
Simulationism is cancer for D&D, go to GURPS if you want that.
- Location
- Drachyench on Discord
I 'unno, I'd say it fundamentally alters Wizards in an even more harmful way than the cat idea. I mean, just think of the end-game hurdles: Where are you going to find 9th-Level Casters to trail around for several minutes at a time to steal your upper-level spells from? More importantly, what are you going to do when they inevitably catch you in the act? "Timesto- wait what the fu-" "I already grabbed that one. :3" "Imprisonment!" "Well shi-"I need a 3.5 port of this class now
And then a 5e port of the class
Indeed. I'll need to get back to house-ruling the Mechanician class's automatons eventually.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Then treat the cats with exactly as much resource management as the books. Who cares?
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
But I like simulationist stuff
THEN PLAY GURPS!
Just kidding. please don't take that seriously.
Ugh, this is the sort of thing I personally hate. I would never inflict this on a player unless the player want to do it for plot reasons or the player was being a jerk to all the other players and i was putting him on time out.
As I said before:
EDIT: Shit, is this what if feels like to be a fringe belief? Holy crap, never felt this before
No, no, your position is probably the majority opinion outside of 3.5 grogs.
It's just that this is SV. We're all mad, here.
I actually got reminded about this just now.
If the other players are going to be a competent team, and are okay with you tagging along, not being very useful, and getting Kenny'ed every other fight, then being that kind of guy is fine.
If on the other hand, you want this sort of guy to be in a party with the tier 2 Zceyrll Binder and have both of you meaningfully contribute to fights and not have your character go splat often... Well, then my response might be more like "git gud scrub."
Optimization is social. The group have to collectively agree to play to a certain power level in 3.x games, because the game is not balanced at all.
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- Somewhere
I mean, I can understand that sentiment, but DnD has rules for that, which I enjoy having around.
As a DM I usually ignore hunger stuff (assuming they have time to get food, although the players are usually good at remembering hunger stuff in the first place), although encumbrance is not ignored, we've gotten plenty of funny moments with people haivng each other carry stuff to not be over encumbered and finagling payments from others for their efforts. Lots of character stuff.
Also, I've never taken a spell book, but the threat of it there forces them to plan in interesting ways, which I think is fun to watch. All the players are fine with it too, only reason I do it. But yeah, I'm not vindictive with it (I'm certainly not that GM), and it's only probably come up once, mostly because the wizard player, on his own because he was a new player, hasn't used more than one spell book because he hasn't attempted to learn a lot of spells, merely learning key really strong spells. He still is able to nearly solo virtually all encounters, as I consistently roll below 10 on dice (both IRL and online) when I am GMing, we tested it in several games.
EDIT: I really enjoy keeping track of numbers and mechanics stuff like weight and other things, which probably also factors in to why I like games like magic the gathering with the heavy use of resource management.
Specifically for NPCs, Mage Guards that work for the King of Empire X or Kingdom Y.
I've never actually played GURPS, haven't had the money to get all those sourcebooks, especially since no one I know wants to play it.THEN PLAY GURPS!
Just kidding. please don't take that seriously.
see above
Lol
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Mithrandir
Endurance and victory!
- Location
- Lighting the Blue Beacons.
I think it's a good mechanic if say... the Wizard has been captured. Forget Anti-Magic zones, just take the book.
Question - in your game, would a Warlock's Invocations make their head explode if used in the wrong spot?THEN PLAY GURPS!
Just kidding. please don't take that seriously.
Ugh, this is the sort of thing I personally hate. I would never inflict this on a player unless the player want to do it for plot reasons or the player was being a jerk to all the other players and i was putting him on time out.
As I said before:
No, no, your position is probably the majority opinion outside of 3.5 grogs.
It's just that this is SV. We're all mad, here.
I actually got reminded about this just now.
If the other players are going to be a competent team, and are okay with you tagging along, not being very useful, and getting Kenny'ed every other fight, then being that kind of guy is fine.
If on the other hand, you want this sort of guy to be in a party with the tier 2 Zceyrll Binder and have both of you meaningfully contribute to fights and not have your character go splat often... Well, then my response might be more like "git gud scrub."
Optimization is social. The group have to collectively agree to play to a certain power level in 3.x games, because the game is not balanced at all.
Jeopardizer
Stalin and the Secret Police
- Location
- Glorious Frankreich
It's not even a matter of simulationism, truly, it's a matter of balance. And I'm not speaking of Tier 0 bat-wizard of mega-doom that breaks settings, I'm speaking of Wizards having been, in part, balanced around the idea that their casting abilities themselves were vulnerable and that allowing a wizard to handwave those issues away is effectively the same as giving them some of the various feats and whatnot for free.
Not that I'm against handing out quality-of-life feats if I think it will make for a better playing experience but, again, you have to hand out similar things to other players/classes because at that point why play anything else than (reflavored) Wizard if the GM is unwilling to use the built-in tools against them and will go out of his way to not do that?
(And yes, I'm aware people may want to play Conan the barbarian, my argument is that playing Conan "the guy who becomes a super-barbarian with some reflavored mumbo jumbo" shouldn't be make for a smoother, easier and all around more pleasant experience if you want to hit things with steel.)
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
I mean, I can understand that sentiment, but DnD has rules for that, which I enjoy having around.
As a DM I usually ignore hunger stuff (assuming they have time to get food, although the players are usually good at remembering hunger stuff in the first place), although encumbrance is not ignored, we've gotten plenty of funny moments with people haivng each other carry stuff to not be over encumbered and finagling payments from others for their efforts. Lots of character stuff.
Also, I've never taken a spell book, but the threat of it there forces them to plan in interesting ways, which I think is fun to watch. All the players are fine with it too, only reason I do it. But yeah, I'm not vindictive with it (I'm certainly not that GM), and it's only probably come up once, mostly because the wizard player, on his own because he was a new player, hasn't used more than one spell book because he hasn't attempted to learn a lot of spells, merely learning key really strong spells. He still is able to nearly solo virtually all encounters, as I consistently roll below 10 on dice (both IRL and online) when I am GMing, we tested it in several games.
EDIT: I really enjoy keeping track of numbers and mechanics stuff like weight and other things, which probably also factors in to why I like games like magic the gathering with the heavy use of resource management.
Then threaten the cats.
Magic cats can probably be caught in magic sacks.
This is where Shroedinger's Cat comes from, incidentally. Save your magic kitties before they become an indeterminate probability cloud; then they'll NEVER stay off/on the furniture!
Then threaten the cats. Cat-spellbooks don't have LESS problems, inherently, they have DIFFERENT ones. If you want to make their casting vulnerable, have someone Charm Animal some of their Spell-Kitties. Have a cat get into an unlucky situation while they're off doing their own thing, and now Cat Lady Wizard needs to go rescue her Remove Curse Kitty from a meat vendor. Have a kitty misbehave and refuse to cooperate with meditation pamper time because this fucking mouse has been taunting it all day and it won't rest until it hunts and kills it.
There's no balance problems or simulation problems inherent to the idea; you just need to change how you handle that character and their resources so that their fluff actually matters to the storyline beyond changed names.
In the abstract, I'm fine with cooldowns and pact magic (though it would involve having a 'cooldown tracker', and I'm not fond of the 'roll checks in order to gain new abilities' for binding spirits, which strikes me as a misstep in an otherwise fairly well designed concept, but those are manageable) . In the specific, it plays pretty darn different than the character concept I'm thinking of, and while I'd rate the occultist as more fun than a pool-based character, it's not firing off the ol' imagination.
As for Tome of Battle... as in the 3.5 Tome of Battle? Swordsage, warblade, and all that? Fine for making stronger martial characters, though on that end I tend to prefer barbarian rage powers and PF Paladins.
This is pretty much my thing with the alt methods. They range for me from, "Pass," to "It's fine, I guess, but not really what I feel like playing, at least not compared to this other stuff."
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
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- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
Easy fix, every time the wizard casts a spell he has a 1/5 chance of bursting in flames. He is not allowed to gain resistance to it.
A player set this as a rule for himself for some reason. But he became suddenly very conservative with his spells. This same game also had a giant land walking enlightened Mantis Shrimp monk. So that game was already a bit strange.
A player set this as a rule for himself for some reason. But he became suddenly very conservative with his spells. This same game also had a giant land walking enlightened Mantis Shrimp monk. So that game was already a bit strange.
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Also, you need to hide the bodies when commoners make the mistake of attacking your spellbook.
Your spellbook can *avoid danger* and *defend itself*. But it can also be hurt or annoyed at you.
Oh! And your familiar is the 'boss cat'.
Zebra Girl had that
On the bright side, he had healing spells.
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Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
that's the same as "well we're going to balance the better stats and multiclassing of demihumans bugiving them level caps." it's shitty design, and most people ignore it becaue it's shitty design.
If you want balance, actually build a balanced game.
Giving the more powerful classes extra work and forcing them to play in paranoia mode does not actually stop them from overshadowing the weaker classes.
FAKE EDIT: warlock powes are not spells. warlock powers are SLA's. Only spells asplode heads in World of Chullivan
- Location
- Somewhere
I actually really want to play in this Chloe world now.
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
unless i say otherwise, i am always talking about 3.5. I only tolerate PF because DSP is awesome.
I'm staying with 3.5 instead of going to 5e largely because I love AMS.
if you dislike AMS, i'm really not rhe DM for you.
I wish I knew more about 3.5. My knowledge is sharply limited.
Mithrandir
Endurance and victory!
- Location
- Lighting the Blue Beacons.
Excellent.
It shouldn't, because those aren't spells.
I assume you'd still be ok if I played a martial character or alchemist or such.
But I still need a game for my "injected with magic blood," character idea... I really do have fun with classic spellcasting, and both my current characters are quite different in focus.
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